Need Thyroid Med HELP!

[Tourist]

Just read that my t4--Levothyroxine, by Mylan, has been under investigation by the FDA for unsafe practices in their facilities --Wtf!!

Here's where I'm at

My tsh has been rising and last week it was 6.3 and fT3 was 2.0. I'm coming off a low carb diet which I think effed up my thyroid and had been on Levo. only for years and years. **Just saw new doc wanted me to switch from levothyroxine to Tirosint 125 mcg and add T3--Cytomel 5mg.**

I read that w/ ins. Tirosint can cost $125 a month; Cytomel may cost around $100. This may not be sustainable for me and wondering if I should consider a name brand T4 (considering price first) or go with a manuf. that doesn't put in all the crap fillers if I can find one--which is why I used Mylan in the first place.

I'm wired from lack of sleep and not sure if there's another angle I'm missing? Please offer some input for me here!!! Laura

 

[HDD]

Farmacia Del Niño - PHARMACY ONLINE IN MEXICO OF BRAND NAME & GENERIC MEDICATIONS, DRUG STORE IN MEXICO, MEDICINES ONLINE, PHARMACY IN MEXICO / Anointed By God

You can order Cynoplus (t4/t3) for $11.40 and cynomel (t3) for $11.65 from this site.

Edit: I haven't ordered from them since they started selling these products again but I believe other forum members have. I'll try to find the thread.

 

[HDD]

@marikay has recently ordered from them.

Cynomel May Not Be Coming Back?

 

[Elchapchapchapo]

What about haiduts formulation?

 

[Tourist]

Thanks for the med options

Any comments on the med combinations ?

 

[Orion]

Thanks for the med options

Any comments on the med combinations ?

PUFA is what blocks thyroid transport, PUFA increases estrogen and PUFA storage in liver along with estrogen decrease the conversion of T4 to T3 in liver/body.

PUFA blocks the formation of pregnenolone, by blocking vitamin A transport, and then its conversion to progesterone/DHEA.

Even if you are very lean, PUFA accumulation adds up after decades of north american diet. All your cells preferentially burn the saturated fat you eat, PUFA is released during stress(low blood sugar, sleeping..)

Working on diet should help you move away from thyroid meds. Things that improve liver health(lean out and reduce fibrosis) will help this.

Extreme low PUFA (very low fat can help), sucrose(white sugar, honey, ripe fruit, cooked fruit, fruit juices), at least 100g protein(low fat cheese/greek yogurt, cooked mushrooms, gelatin/collagen, broths, add milk in small amounts since you have SIBO issues), raw carrot every day away from meal, some coconut oil.

Liver health: K2, caffeine, Methylene Blue, B vitamins (liver, Haiduts Energin), Cyprohepdatine, vitamin E (Haiduts Tocovit), vitamin A

My experience with being very hypo and coming off thyroid meds, was I had to use the above supplements with very low doses and skip days.

 

[HDD]

Thanks for the med options

Any comments on the med combinations ?

I thought you were looking for something more affordable is why I posted the Mexican option and it is one of the products that Peat has recommended.

These are email answers from Peat regarding thyroid medication that I have found very useful as far as dosing:
Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki



I agree with @Orion in that much can be done with diet and supplements. I worked on diet for quite some time before supplementing any thyroid medication. My metabolism was good from diet and supplements alone but I decided to use a small amount of thyroid medication for further healing. My cholesterol was quite high at the time. I don't use medication continually now.

Each person's situation is different and varies day to day. Diet, sunlight, stress, etc. are some of the factors.

 

[Dobbler]

PUFA is what blocks thyroid transport, PUFA increases estrogen and PUFA storage in liver along with estrogen decrease the conversion of T4 to T3 in liver/body.

PUFA blocks the formation of pregnenolone, by blocking vitamin A transport, and then its conversion to progesterone/DHEA.

Even if you are very lean, PUFA accumulation adds up after decades of north american diet. All your cells preferentially burn the saturated fat you eat, PUFA is released during stress(low blood sugar, sleeping..)

Working on diet should help you move away from thyroid meds. Things that improve liver health(lean out and reduce fibrosis) will help this.

Extreme low PUFA (very low fat can help), sucrose(white sugar, honey, ripe fruit, cooked fruit, fruit juices), at least 100g protein(low fat cheese/greek yogurt, cooked mushrooms, gelatin/collagen, broths, add milk in small amounts since you have SIBO issues), raw carrot every day away from meal, some coconut oil.

Liver health: K2, caffeine, Methylene Blue, B vitamins (liver, Haiduts Energin), Cyprohepdatine, vitamin E (Haiduts Tocovit), vitamin A

My experience with being very hypo and coming off thyroid meds, was I had to use the above supplements with very low doses and skip days.

Also coconut oil detoxes PUFA and makes it not accumulate right? So if u eat higher fat (say 100g) that is all coconut oil it should be okey?

 

[Orion]

Also coconut oil detoxes PUFA and makes it not accumulate right? So if u eat higher fat (say 100g) that is all coconut oil it should be okey?

A healthy liver detoxes PUFA, sugar and coconut oil can halt PUFA's release during stress, but it you eat too much PUFA is will accumulate, this happens starting with very small amounts.

Non-hydrogenated coconut oil is ~1-2% PUFA, eating large amounts when hypo would not be recommended.

 

[Tourist]

I thought you were looking for something more affordable is why I posted the Mexican option and it is one of the products that Peat has recommended.

.....
Yes, I was and I'm looking up the options u listed and appreciate that! I am also trying to figure out the med combo and I'm sure I didn't come across as clear as I would have liked--I am appreciative of your posts!
.....

These are email answers from Peat regarding thyroid medication that I have found very useful as far as dosing:
Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki

Will read this next


I agree with @Orion in that much can be done with diet and supplements. I worked on diet for quite some time before supplementing any thyroid medication. My metabolism was good from diet and supplements alone but I decided to use a small amount of thyroid medication for further healing. My cholesterol was quite high at the time. I don't use medication continually now.

Each person's situation is different and varies day to day. Diet, sunlight, stress, etc. are some of the factors.

Still learning and yeah my stress factor when I get only a few hours of sleep is to the moon

 

[lollipop]

PUFA is what blocks thyroid transport, PUFA increases estrogen and PUFA storage in liver along with estrogen decrease the conversion of T4 to T3 in liver/body.

PUFA blocks the formation of pregnenolone, by blocking vitamin A transport, and then its conversion to progesterone/DHEA.

Even if you are very lean, PUFA accumulation adds up after decades of north american diet. All your cells preferentially burn the saturated fat you eat, PUFA is released during stress(low blood sugar, sleeping..)

Working on diet should help you move away from thyroid meds. Things that improve liver health(lean out and reduce fibrosis) will help this.

Extreme low PUFA (very low fat can help), sucrose(white sugar, honey, ripe fruit, cooked fruit, fruit juices), at least 100g protein(low fat cheese/greek yogurt, cooked mushrooms, gelatin/collagen, broths, add milk in small amounts since you have SIBO issues), raw carrot every day away from meal, some coconut oil.

Liver health: K2, caffeine, Methylene Blue, B vitamins (liver, Haiduts Energin), Cyprohepdatine, vitamin E (Haiduts Tocovit), vitamin A

My experience with being very hypo and coming off thyroid meds, was I had to use the above supplements with very low doses and skip days.

Nice information @Orion. I have been appreciating many of your explanatory posts.

 

[Elize]

How can I rid myself of the adrenaline response I get after taking my thyroid medicaton T4 and T4/T3 Nature throid. I have total body tremor with spasms in both arms. AMRI only showed a small spot of encephalopathy, no MS, stroke, Parkinson's or any lesions. I tried sugar and coconut oil - perhaps not taking enough - how many spoons of each should I have per day? Thansk

 

[Orion]

How can I rid myself of the adrenaline response I get after taking my thyroid medicaton T4 and T4/T3 Nature throid. I have total body tremor with spasms in both arms. AMRI only showed a small spot of encephalopathy, no MS, stroke, Parkinson's or any lesions. I tried sugar and coconut oil - perhaps not taking enough - how many spoons of each should I have per day? Thansk

RP has mentioned that 2 quarts milk and 1 quart OJ should provide enough protein, carbs to blunt stress hormones in most people. Adding in 1 cup(20 TBsp) of sucrose/honey should help as well, decreasing as symptoms subside. This will depend on how lean you are, how much PUFA you have stored, and your age.

 

[Elize]

RP has mentioned that 2 quarts milk and 1 quart OJ should provide enough protein, carbs to blunt stress hormones in most people. Adding in 1 cup(20 TBsp) of sucrose/honey should help as well, decreasing as symptoms subside. This will depend on how lean you are, how much PUFA you have stored, and your age.

I am 64, 5 feet 2 inches and 104 pounds. I do not do well on dairy. Am trying to have cottage cheese. Can I then just have the Orange Juice or do I need to have the milk as well.

 

[charlie]

Nice information @Orion. I have been appreciating many of your explanatory posts.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

All your cells preferentially burn the saturated fat you eat

Not all cells. Only muscle cells (which prefer glucose first) and brown fat cells. There is also a limit on how much non-MCT saturated fat someone will burn before storing it as fat in white fat cells.

 

[Orion]

RP has mentioned that 2 quarts milk and 1 quart OJ should provide enough protein, carbs to blunt stress hormones in most people. Adding in 1 cup(20 TBsp) of sucrose/honey should help as well, decreasing as symptoms subside. This will depend on how lean you are, how much PUFA you have stored, and your age.

I am 64, 5 feet 2 inches and 104 pounds. I do not do well on dairy. Am trying to have cottage cheese. Can I then just have the Orange Juice or do I need to have the milk as well.

I think since you are 64, and sound lean it would be good to go lower/moderate fat approach, get fats from small amounts of coconut oil.

RP thinks milk is important for calcium to oppose excess phosphate in most diets. Leafy green broths, low fat cheeses, greek yogurt or ground up egg shells could be used to replace milk. If you do not do well with OJ, clear apple juice or other fruit juices could be used. Salt is very important as well to blunt adrenaline. Bright white canning salt or pure NaCl is recommended, most here avoid sea salts due to contamination. Salt food to taste and a pinch of salt in juices can help. Leafy green broths and OJ will provide magnesium as well. Salt is important to help retain calcium, magnesium and potassium.



"When we don't eat for many hours, our glycogen stores decrease, and adrenaline secretion is increased, liberating more glucose as long as glycogen is available, but also liberating fatty acids from the fatty tissues. When the diet has chronically contained more polyunsaturated fats than can be oxidized immediately or detoxified by the liver, the fat stores will contain a disproportionate amount of them, since fat cells preferentially oxidize saturated fats for their own energy, and the greater water solubility of the PUFA causes them to be preferentially released into the bloodstream during stress.

In good health, especially in children, the stress hormones are produced only in the amount needed, because of negative feedback from the free saturated fatty acids, which inhibit the production of adrenalin and adrenal steroids, and eating protein and carbohydrate will quickly end the stress. But when the fat stores contain mainly PUFA, the free fatty acids in the serum will be mostly linoleic acid and arachidonic acid, and smaller amounts of other unsaturated fatty acids. These PUFA stimulate the stress hormones, ACTH, cortisol, adrenaline, glucagon, and prolactin, which increase lipolysis, producing more fatty acids in a vicious circle. In the relative absence of PUFA, the stress reaction is self limiting, but under the influence of PUFA, the stress response becomes self-amplifying."

 

[Orion]

Not all cells. Only muscle cells (which prefer glucose first) and brown fat cells. There is also a limit on how much non-MCT saturated fat someone will burn before storing it as fat in white fat cells.

I should have specified that RP mentioned that all cells burn SFA preferentially over PUFA. PUFA is burned when released under stress, otherwise it stays in storage and is not used for fuel.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

I should have specified that RP mentioned that all cells burn SFA preferentially over PUFA. PUFA is burned when released under stress, otherwise it stays in storage and is not used for fuel.

It's still not all cells though. Red blood cells, the brain (ketones are not SFA), the renal medulla and other organs can not burn SFA. And even though muscles and brown adipose tissue can burn SFA, that does not mean that every person will automatically burn it right away and not store it as new fat.

 

[tyw]

Not all cells. Only muscle cells (which prefer glucose first) and brown fat cells. There is also a limit on how much non-MCT saturated fat someone will burn before storing it as fat in white fat cells.

Even if you are very lean, PUFA accumulation adds up after decades of north american diet. All your cells preferentially burn the saturated fat you eat, PUFA is released during stress(low blood sugar, sleeping..)

Regarding Orion's statement about preferential fatty acid use, this is not true.

PUFA will generally be preferentially used in any context in which they are available.

Regarding stored fatty acids, the more unsaturated a fatty acid is, the more easily mobilised from adipose stores --
Differential mobilization of fatty acids from adipose tissue. - PubMed - NCBI . Note that this is regarding generic lipolysis, and is not specific to skeletal tissue.

Regarding dietary fat (in chylomicrons), the more unsaturated a fatty acid is, the easier it is removed from the chylomicron and used in any tissue --
Uptake of individual fatty acids into adipose tissue in relation to their presence in the diet . NOTE: this makes sense even given Peat's statement that PUFAs are more "water soluble", which really should mean "less hydrophobic". This is for the same reason that Vitamin K2 MK4 is first to be off-loaded (as opposed to K2 MK7) from chylomicrons -- https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2016/12/09/the-ultimate-vitamin-k2-resource/

In a generic sense, it is always more likely that the more Unsaturated Fatty acid gets mobilised and used before more saturated fatty acids. (Exceptions to medium and short chain fatty acids apply).

Regarding storage and use of fatty acids in skeletal tissue specifically, here is a long-ish paper summarising findings -- Fatty acid composition of skeletal muscle reflects dietary fat composition in humans . There is additional commentary by primary author here, which I feel is a better summary. Just skip to the conclusions.

It is obviously a case where there are multiple factors at play wrt skeletal tissue fatty acid use. eg: Habitual exercise will increase fatty acid use (independent of food intake fatty acid composition and calorie balance). Endurance trained athletes have less palmitic and n-6 fatty acids in skeletal tissue, with more saturated fatty acids. Exclusive resistance-training led to PUFA accumulation (this is in line with the observation of n-6 fatty acids in fast-firing muscles of hummingbirds and rattlesnakes). Chronic alteration of Dietary fatty acid composition changes skeletal tissue fatty acid composition. Individual genetic variation. And on and on .....

The mechanics are not simple

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