Peat's Cynoplus-Armour Conversion

iPeat

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Oct 27, 2018
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199
Need help with Ray's thyroid conversion. I've heard Peat say at least 6 or 7 times (once in each of the last 2 Patrick Timpone interviews), that 1 Cynoplus tablet is equivalent to just over 2 grains of Armour. I've always dismissed this as ignorance on my part or I didn't care because I wasn't taking Cynoplus.

Well, I've been taking Cynoplus for about a year now and I'm confused because Peat makes statements that people generally need X grains of thyroid, etc., and I'm not sure what doses he's describing.

If 1 Cynoplus is 30mcg T3 and 120mcg T4,
and according the FDA prescribing info;
1 grain of Armour is 9mcg T3 and 38mcg T4,
then how is 1 Cynoplus tablet "just over 2 grains" and not "just over 3 grains?"

I searched the email wiki and he says, "Half a grain of Armour, or about 30 mcg of T4 and 7.5 mcg of T3..." Seems like he's saying that 1 grain is 15mcg T3 and 60mcg T4 (which would line up with him saying that 1 Cynoplus equals 2 grains of Armour).

Peat also wrote, "...a total of 25 mcg T3 and 100 of T4.That would be similar to the traditional 2 grain dose of Armour thyroid." Which by modern definitions would be over 2.5 grains.

At the end of the day, it's basically a moot point because you need what you need, but I'm curious if Peat says that, "rarely people need 5 grains," does he mean 75mcg T3 and 300mcg T4, or 45 and 190?
Is he taking into account some sort of difference in the way synthetic vs. NDT affects the body?
Did Armour contain different amounts of thyroid hormone in the past?

Sorry if this has been answered before, but I couldn't find it.
 

Advocate2021

Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2020
Messages
87
Need help with Ray's thyroid conversion. I've heard Peat say at least 6 or 7 times (once in each of the last 2 Patrick Timpone interviews), that 1 Cynoplus tablet is equivalent to just over 2 grains of Armour. I've always dismissed this as ignorance on my part or I didn't care because I wasn't taking Cynoplus.

Well, I've been taking Cynoplus for about a year now and I'm confused because Peat makes statements that people generally need X grains of thyroid, etc., and I'm not sure what doses he's describing.

If 1 Cynoplus is 30mcg T3 and 120mcg T4,
and according the FDA prescribing info;
1 grain of Armour is 9mcg T3 and 38mcg T4,
then how is 1 Cynoplus tablet "just over 2 grains" and not "just over 3 grains?"

I searched the email wiki and he says, "Half a grain of Armour, or about 30 mcg of T4 and 7.5 mcg of T3..." Seems like he's saying that 1 grain is 15mcg T3 and 60mcg T4 (which would line up with him saying that 1 Cynoplus equals 2 grains of Armour).

Peat also wrote, "...a total of 25 mcg T3 and 100 of T4.That would be similar to the traditional 2 grain dose of Armour thyroid." Which by modern definitions would be over 2.5 grains.

At the end of the day, it's basically a moot point because you need what you need, but I'm curious if Peat says that, "rarely people need 5 grains," does he mean 75mcg T3 and 300mcg T4, or 45 and 190?
Is he taking into account some sort of difference in the way synthetic vs. NDT affects the body?
Did Armour contain different amounts of thyroid hormone in the past?

Sorry if this has been answered before, but I couldn't find it.
I was confronting this same issue myself. I corresponded with Dr. Peat back in 2008 and 2009 when I was integrating thyroid supplementation and was taking 2.5 grains NDT as my optimal dose. He emailed me that cynoplus was the equivalent of 2.2 grains NDT and that I could substitute one cynoplus tablet and I have just always taken it for granted that cynoplus = 2.2 grains NDT but revisiting my current regimen, had the same thoughts you are having and am thoroughly confused now. Did you ever get clarity for yourself on this?
 

Advocate2021

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Joined
Dec 11, 2020
Messages
87
I was confronting this same issue myself. I corresponded with Dr. Peat back in 2008 and 2009 when I was integrating thyroid supplementation and was taking 2.5 grains NDT as my optimal dose. He emailed me that cynoplus was the equivalent of 2.2 grains NDT and that I could substitute one cynoplus tablet and I have just always taken it for granted that cynoplus = 2.2 grains NDT but revisiting my current regimen, had the same thoughts you are having and am thoroughly confused now. Did you ever get clarity for yourself on this?
I found this thread with transcribed interview in 2020 where Dr. Peat was asked re this very topic==perhaps this answers it.

 
Joined
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The policy of the NDT product varies a lot. But I think that one grain of NDT is probably equal to about 60 µg of T4 and 15 µg of T3.
 

RPDiciple

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Feb 25, 2015
Messages
309
This is cool. Broda barnes said some hypo people needed as high as 5 grains, in these conversions that means a lot but i also thini that is cool since low doses does not seem to do much, so its nice to know that one may need to go higher withouth thinking it is to much.
 

iPeat

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Messages
199
I was confronting this same issue myself. I corresponded with Dr. Peat back in 2008 and 2009 when I was integrating thyroid supplementation and was taking 2.5 grains NDT as my optimal dose. He emailed me that cynoplus was the equivalent of 2.2 grains NDT and that I could substitute one cynoplus tablet and I have just always taken it for granted that cynoplus = 2.2 grains NDT but revisiting my current regimen, had the same thoughts you are having and am thoroughly confused now. Did you ever get clarity for yourself on this?
I eventually found an article (can't seem to find it now - it's buried in Google somewhere) that explained that the medical community essentially picked arbitrary numbers of synthetic t3/t4 to equate to a grain of Armour product. When Ray talks about grains, I believe he's referring to the original Armour product before this shift happened.

Back then they measured dried thyroid gland based on its effects on the body, not so much by t3/t4 content. They only tried to measure those later on. Based on Ray's comments and a few other articles I've read, it looks to me like the synthetic equivalent to one grain is 15mcg t3 and 60mcg t4 like hamster said.

After discovering this, I felt more comfortable in taking a higher dose of Cynomel and Cynoplus. I'm currently taking 1.5 tablets of Cynomel and .5 Cynoplus, and am about to raise the dose of Cynomel even further. After years of trial-and-error, I've realized my body doesn't like t4 so much.
 

Advocate2021

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Dec 11, 2020
Messages
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I eventually found an article (can't seem to find it now - it's buried in Google somewhere) that explained that the medical community essentially picked arbitrary numbers of synthetic t3/t4 to equate to a grain of Armour product. When Ray talks about grains, I believe he's referring to the original Armour product before this shift happened.

Back then they measured dried thyroid gland based on its effects on the body, not so much by t3/t4 content. They only tried to measure those later on. Based on Ray's comments and a few other articles I've read, it looks to me like the synthetic equivalent to one grain is 15mcg t3 and 60mcg t4 like hamster said.

After discovering this, I felt more comfortable in taking a higher dose of Cynomel and Cynoplus. I'm currently taking 1.5 tablets of Cynomel and .5 Cynoplus, and am about to raise the dose of Cynomel even further. After years of trial-and-error, I've realized my body doesn't like t4 so much.

Thanks! And I am realizing same. I had been coasting along on 1.5 tablets cynoplus for years--thining that was about 3 grains. had not gotten blood work in a year and a half and when I did and got back results a few weeks ago, it clued me in that I had been ingnoring obvious symptoms like carotonemia and allergy flareups. When I started taking my temps again (had not done that for a long time), saw that they were low. Although, my pulse has always remained steady at about 88 throughout all-- I did check that over the years and used that along with regularity of menstural cycles as a marker that the cynoplus dose was correct It seems to me that taking too much T4 in relation to T3 may not result in all hypo symptoms coming back but only some.. So, I have been for the last few weeks and am still revamping my regimen-- now at 3 quarters of a cynoplus and 3/4 of a t3 25mcg tablet; but I am still adjusting all as I figure out what is best. May need more t3 intitially to reset and then go back to another variant. Too much T4 definitely can boomerang and make a person hypothyroid-I have experienced this first hand.
 

Advocate2021

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Joined
Dec 11, 2020
Messages
87
I eventually found an article (can't seem to find it now - it's buried in Google somewhere) that explained that the medical community essentially picked arbitrary numbers of synthetic t3/t4 to equate to a grain of Armour product. When Ray talks about grains, I believe he's referring to the original Armour product before this shift happened.

Back then they measured dried thyroid gland based on its effects on the body, not so much by t3/t4 content. They only tried to measure those later on. Based on Ray's comments and a few other articles I've read, it looks to me like the synthetic equivalent to one grain is 15mcg t3 and 60mcg t4 like hamster said.

After discovering this, I felt more comfortable in taking a higher dose of Cynomel and Cynoplus. I'm currently taking 1.5 tablets of Cynomel and .5 Cynoplus, and am about to raise the dose of Cynomel even further. After years of trial-and-error, I've realized my body doesn't like t4 so much.
Also, can you please share how you divide your dosing -- how much of each you take per dose and how you space them? thanks!
 

iPeat

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Also, can you please share how you divide your dosing -- how much of each you take per dose and how you space them? thanks!
After years of checking my pulse and temps constantly, I now am trying out the whole idea that you should "feel good" when you get a perfect thyroid dose, like Peat has mentioned a few times, so I'm now going by that. My pulse is generally around 80, and temps around 98.6 when I check it. I'd like them to be higher though.

I dose half a Cynomel at 6:00, 11:00, and 4:00, then half a Cynoplus right before bed. I used to divide them up into eights and take them every few hours, but that was a pain. T3 spikes at 4 hours so I'm thinking taking a larger dose every 3-5 hours should keep everything somewhat stable.

I still don't feel like I'm "there" yet, so take my approach with a grain of salt. After reading thousands of people experiences on this forum, it definitely seems like thyroid supplementation is highly individual-specific.
 

Advocate2021

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Amen. I have been experimenting with supplemental thiamine and have found it to raise temperature within a couple of hours of taking it. I am confirming that other factors besides thyroid supplementation effect temps, especially since my pulse is always at the right place but my temps are lagging behind. If I increase the thyroid, my pulse starts going higher and higher, yet temps are not optimal, so I am looking at other possiblities as to why temperature not high enough. sounds like you have the temperature pretty stable but could use more pulse. very nuanced this whole balancing business.
 

Shontelle

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Feb 10, 2016
Messages
32
After years of checking my pulse and temps constantly, I now am trying out the whole idea that you should "feel good" when you get a perfect thyroid dose, like Peat has mentioned a few times, so I'm now going by that. My pulse is generally around 80, and temps around 98.6 when I check it. I'd like them to be higher though.

I dose half a Cynomel at 6:00, 11:00, and 4:00, then half a Cynoplus right before bed. I used to divide them up into eights and take them every few hours, but that was a pain. T3 spikes at 4 hours so I'm thinking taking a larger dose every 3-5 hours should keep everything somewhat stable.

I still don't feel like I'm "there" yet, so take my approach with a grain of salt. After reading thousands of people experiences on this forum, it definitely seems like thyroid supplementation is highly individual-specific.
Hello,

Same boat here.. to be clear- 1/2 at 600 1/2 11:00 and 1/2 at 4 of cynomel ? so 1 1/2 then half of a cynoplus before bed?
 

iPeat

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Thread starter
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Messages
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Hello,

Same boat here.. to be clear- 1/2 at 600 1/2 11:00 and 1/2 at 4 of cynomel ? so 1 1/2 then half of a cynoplus before bed?
Correct, but like I wrote above, take my approach with a grain of salt. Peat has said that t4 should be included and that a ratio of 1:3 or 1:4 works for most people. It's also important to eat when you take single doses of t3 that large. I've run into problems when I took those doses without eating.

Also, the dose of t3 I described is 52.5mcg/day. You'd be hard-pressed to find a doctor that would prescribe that dose. Not that I trust doctors at all; I'm just sayin'.
 

Shontelle

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Feb 10, 2016
Messages
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So I have been trying now for over a years and now with the help of a doctor whom also does functional medicine had me remove everything.
man’s start as follows.

T4 (Merk) as im in Jamaica.
So I was taking T4 75mcg first thing in the am for a month.
then we introduced the t3 at three intervals. The minuscule dose made me feel terrible, lethargic and moody.

Yesterday I did half of t3 with the T4 75mcg in the morning and after lunch I added the other half of t3 cynomel. Energy was almost feeling normal... I also take k2 and D3 topically. And I have pansterone which I only do topically 4 drops.

This morning I woke up with dry skin all over my upper leg and lower and hands very swollen.
However, the swollen nature and and extra weight has been atrocious with inflammation. I have recently taken bloodwork and I’ll share it as I’m really at my wits end.
 

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iPeat

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So I have been trying now for over a years and now with the help of a doctor whom also does functional medicine had me remove everything.
man’s start as follows.

T4 (Merk) as im in Jamaica.
So I was taking T4 75mcg first thing in the am for a month.
then we introduced the t3 at three intervals. The minuscule dose made me feel terrible, lethargic and moody.

Yesterday I did half of t3 with the T4 75mcg in the morning and after lunch I added the other half of t3 cynomel. Energy was almost feeling normal... I also take k2 and D3 topically. And I have pansterone which I only do topically 4 drops.

This morning I woke up with dry skin all over my upper leg and lower and hands very swollen.
However, the swollen nature and and extra weight has been atrocious with inflammation. I have recently taken bloodwork and I’ll share it as I’m really at my wits end.
After following Peat for 3 years, and experimenting with thyroid hormone in many different ways, I'll say that I've had way more success in experimenting with things other than thyroid hormone (i.e. liver, carrots, mushrooms, progesterone, red light, etc.). Also, I worked my way up to my dose of thyroid really slowly. Might not be a great idea to jump up the dose so quickly.

Since you're a female, I would look into Peat's writings on progesterone. You almost can't go wrong. My wife takes boatloads of Progest-E, and has had good results.


Vitamins A&E topically might help the dry skin (Peat had recommended these for dry skin). Liver might also be a good idea also.
 

Shontelle

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Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Messages
32
After following Peat for 3 years, and experimenting with thyroid hormone in many different ways, I'll say that I've had way more success in experimenting with things other than thyroid hormone (i.e. liver, carrots, mushrooms, progesterone, red light, etc.). Also, I worked my way up to my dose of thyroid really slowly. Might not be a great idea to jump up the dose so quickly.

Since you're a female, I would look into Peat's writings on progesterone. You almost can't go wrong. My wife takes boatloads of Progest-E, and has had good results.


Vitamins A&E topically might help the dry skin (Peat had recommended these for dry skin). Liver might also be a good idea also.
Yes... I was taking the Progest E and it was causing more weight gain... and puffy all around especially face.
hands and more.
I do the carrots and have for many years, also take Vitamin A topically from Health Natura.
 
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