What are the necessary functions of estrogen?

[Elie]

At school I learned the standard (including dogmatic) stuff about estrogen.

From the writings of Peat I understand estrogen to be a disruptor of energy and structures (causing excess cell division, water accumulation, etc.).

The forum is filled with posts about the negative effects of estrogen.

However, I would expect estrogen to be present in cells for a reason. It is just that I don't have clarity as to what reason that might be.

Any suggestions?

 

[mostlylurking]

At school I learned the standard (including dogmatic) stuff about estrogen.

From the writings of Peat I understand estrogen to be a disruptor of energy and structures (causing excess cell division, water accumulation, etc.).

The forum is filled with posts about the negative effects of estrogen.

However, I would expect estrogen to be present in cells for a reason. It is just that I don't have clarity as to what reason that might be.

Any suggestions?

Ray Peat said that the sole purpose of estrogen is inflammation. It is released to inflame the uterus around the time of ovulation (release of an egg) so that implantation in the uterus is facilitated. Then progesterone is released to quench the estrogen and inflammation.

 

[TruffleGnocchi]

Ray Peat said that the sole purpose of estrogen is inflammation. It is released to inflame the uterus around the time of ovulation (release of an egg) so that implantation in the uterus is facilitated. Then progesterone is released to quench the estrogen and inflammation.

But then 1 question would be, why do men have it? And why estrogen receptors all around the body, including brain?
I think Ray Peat said also that its used for wound healing and like a metabolic eraser or something like that.

I quote peatbot.com:

Estrogen is said to have a controlled stress function in the body. It activates cells by increasing the function of glutamic acid, which leads to brain excitement. However, it also interferes with the use of oxygen and glucose, blocking the ability to oxidize glucose. Estrogen is considered to mimic a stress response and can potentially lead to the production of cancer cells. Additionally, estrogen activates the production of eggs and plays a role in the readiness of the egg to start a new organism. Its proper function is to activate the potential for new life once a month for a few hours, starting at puberty. Estrogen also tends to be produced locally in tissues whenever they are stressed.

 

[mostlylurking]

But then 1 question would be, why do men have it? And why estrogen receptors all around the body, including brain?
I think Ray Peat said also that its used for wound healing and like a metabolic eraser or something like that.

I quote peatbot.com:

Well, men have inflammation, right? Estrogen begets inflammation and inflammation begets estrogen. PUFA is estrogenic, because it causes inflammation and most men, especially older men, carry around a boatload of PUFA.

If memory serves, I think Ray was talking about nitric oxide causing swelling in a wound which facilitates inflammation which aids in wound healing. Brain excitation is not a good thing. I don't remember Ray ever saying estrogen is beneficial unless, of course, you are trying to get pregnant.

Estrogen is supposed to have a "controlled" stress function but without progesterone to dampen it, estrogen can cause runaway inflammation and all the problems that go with it, including cancer.

I don't understand the estrogen "receptors" all around the body and brain either. I do understand pain "receptors" and estrogen does cause pain, so there's that.

 

[Elie]

Fantastic inputs.
So an initiator of inflammation... which is necessary at times.
Cortisol, on the other hand (also a stress hormone), is used (as cortisone) to supress inflammation.
Both steroidal molecules.

 

[Peatress]

What is the purpose of estrogen. Start @17mins


View: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4Rdoeb2iIz4mIxcN32qmNb

 

[Elie]

What is the purpose of estrogen. Start @17mins


View: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4Rdoeb2iIz4mIxcN32qmNb

This is good, thank you.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Reports of people/bodybuilders crashing estrogen using AI and feeling horrible should really tell you that Estrogen is necessary and not to be messed with.

 

[Beatrix_]

There must be lifesaving reasons for adrenals to produce estrogen in both men and women...

IME estradiol protects the kidneys and joints, other than being needed for fertility.

There are healthy and unhealthy levels (too low or too high) of estrogen. The aim should not be zero.

 

[youngsinatra]

Reports of people/bodybuilders crashing estrogen using AI and feeling horrible should really tell you that Estrogen is necessary and not to be messed with.

Exactly. If anyone wants to try to crash their estradiol then go ahead and take a big dose of an AI.

You will feel absolutely terrible, depressed and apathetic, have zero libido, heavy fatigue and systemic joint pain. Some also get symptoms that are similar to anemia like pale skin and breathlessness. I think estradiol is necessary in appropriate amounts for a well-functioning copper-iron metabolism.

Estradiol has been shown to dose-dependently raise serum copper and ceruloplasmin and lowering hepatic copper stores - ie. improving it‘s utilization.

 

[TruffleGnocchi]

Would a castrated male with no testosterone production, feel the same bad effects and have the same joint problems, fatigue, as a bodybuilder on supraphysiological androgen levels + big dose AI? Obviously bad comparison because the castrated male lacks testosterone but there must be some overlap if low estrogen is the cause right?

Isn't estrogen kind of hydrating or "wet-ening"? Like when bodybuilders want to crush estrogen, so that they can "dry-out", and women being more soft and distribute fat differently, or is that from progesterone or something else?
Maybe bat effects are from being "too dry"? Then maybe something like growth hormone could counter that effects. I'm sure bodybuilders are on GH and the combination of steroids + big dose AI + GH has been tested many times by them, so probably not. Just an idea although there is this:

Estradiol levels in children:
1-14 days: Estradiol levels in newborns are very elevated at birth but will fall to prepubertal levels within a few days. (Maybe because of the mother had high estrogen?)

Males

Tanner Stages#	Mean Age	Reference Range
Stage I (>14 days and prepubertal)	7.1 years	Undetectable-13 pg/mL
Stage II	12.1 years	Undetectable-16 pg/mL
Stage III	13.6 years	Undetectable-26 pg/mL
Stage IV	15.1 years	Undetectable-38 pg/mL
Stage V	18 years	10-40 pg/mL

Females

Tanner Stages#	Mean Age	Reference Range
Stage I (>14 days and prepubertal)	7.1 years	Undetectable-20 pg/mL
Stage II	10.5 years	Undetectable-24 pg/mL
Stage III	11.6 years	Undetectable-60 pg/mL
Stage IV	12.3 years	15-85 pg/mL
Stage V	14.5 years	15-350 pg/mL**

"Undetectable-13 pg/mL" is a big difference, but still the top of the reference range for pre-puberty males is the low side for adult males. And they have the opposite of health problems and are growing like weeds. Health, and mental capacity one of the best in lifetime. I assume this page is accurate, maybe it isnt.

Progesterone in children and other values other than estradiol

 

[Blossom]

@TruffleGnocchi, great information.

 

[Peatress]

Hormonal effects in newborns: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

Hormonal effects in newborns occur because in the womb, babies are exposed to many chemicals (hormones) that are in the mother's bloodstream. After birth, the infants are no longer exposed to these hormones.

medlineplus.gov

Hormonal effects in newborns occur because in the womb, babies are exposed to many chemicals (hormones) that are in the mother's bloodstream. After birth, the infants are no longer exposed to these hormones. This exposure may cause temporary conditions in a newborn.

Hormones from the mother (maternal hormones) are some of the chemicals that pass through the placenta into the baby's blood during pregnancy. These hormones can affect the baby.

For example, pregnant women produce high levels of the hormone estrogen. This causes breast enlargement in the mother. By the third day after birth, breast swelling may also be seen in newborn boys and girls. Such newborn breast swelling does not last, but it is a common concern among new parents.

Fetuses suffer from extra oestrogen exposure - Nature

Hormones found in contraceptives harm development of baby mice.

www.nature.com

 

[stoic]

Reports of people/bodybuilders crashing estrogen using AI and feeling horrible should really tell you that Estrogen is necessary and not to be messed with.

I'm not convinced by the AI argument. Those drugs are harmful for plenty of reasons, and their symptoms do not overlap with those of low estrogen. We are used to think so only because AIs are used in most low estrogen experiments. It's a vicious circle.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

I'm not convinced by the AI argument. Those drugs are harmful for plenty of reasons, and their symptoms do not overlap with those of low estrogen. We are used to think so only because AIs are used in most low estrogen experiments. It's a vicious circle.

But I’ve read similar reports on this forum of people, who didn’t use an AI, but did combine multiple estrogen lowering substances(Aspirin, Vitamin E, K2…) to a negative effect.

 

[Beatrix_]

It's important to keep in mind that plastic pollution replace real hormone in receptors and have only detrimental effects in the body, unlike our hormones.