The Masculinizing Effects Of Estrogen

postman

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i will not be surprised if it turn out that lot of big bodybuilders with huge muscles got their gains from estrogen effects!the bigger they are the puffier their muscle looks and even when their at lowest fat percentage!its like their muscles are filled with water.
Most of those people don't have any visible facial edema, I doubt they walk around with chronically high levels of estrogen. The actual training itself and muscle rebuilding itself might raise estrogen though, but it also increases testosterone.

I'm guessing they don't bother with DHT because of the hair effect propaganda? In saying that they use testosterone with aromatase inhibitor ,the hope is to convert it to DHT?
If this is the case, they use so much testosterone it's entirely plausible it's being stored somewhere so not all is instantly converted so when aromatase inhibitors stop testosterone comes out of storage and may well go down the estrogen pathway causing said issues.
Some of the more successful users are rumoured to use T3 year round ,low does of 25 micro g.

It would be fascinating for someone prePeat to give an example of a cycle log and then their new log after studying Peat.
They don't bother with DHT because DHT doesn't build muscle at all. DHT has more effect on secondary sexual charecteristics, like development, and the brain. Some body builders take DHT as part of their post-cycle therapy because it very strongly antagonizes estrogen
 
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paymanz

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@postman your points seems correct to me but one thing im sure about is estrogen can cause an abnormal kind of growth,the type of training in bodybuilding, at least half of it focus on damaging tissue to stimulate the growth.maybe its not systemic estrogen hence no facial edema.but inside the muscle it cause that growth.
 

lvysaur

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It's nonsensical to call estrogen a male hormone. Maybe 10% of its effect is masculinizng, but the vast majority of its effect is feminizing.

Estrogen (which I'm assuming is ultimately responsible for the response from gas-inducing vegetables) is consistently and powerfully "masculinizing" for me. It incites loss of scalp hair, thickening of facial hair, and an increase in sex drive. I agree that these are all very undesirable things (my sex drive is fine without it, I become hypersexual with estrogen).

It also makes my voice a little bit higher, and makes me very anxious and nervous.
 

Drareg

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Most of those people don't have any visible facial edema, I doubt they walk around with chronically high levels of estrogen. The actual training itself and muscle rebuilding itself might raise estrogen though, but it also increases testosterone.


They don't bother with DHT because DHT doesn't build muscle at all. DHT has more effect on secondary sexual charecteristics, like development, and the brain. Some body builders take DHT as part of their post-cycle therapy because it very strongly antagonizes estrogen

im currently reading more on this topic, really interesting, it seems at the moment that their is a lot of speculation on the best cycles, is it a case of it just working yet nobody can currently say it's a,b,c,d and grow?
Testosterone must have more to it than currently known?

Would DHEA not be the best option while inhibiting estrogen? Or is this too subtle an effect ?
 

postman

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Estrogen (which I'm assuming is ultimately responsible for the response from gas-inducing vegetables) is consistently and powerfully "masculinizing" for me. It incites loss of scalp hair,
I think that's quite a leap to think that response is because of estrogen. Anyways I don't think hair loss is masculinization, did you ever read hair like a fox? By the way, there are even desperate and misguided men taking estrogen to stop their baldness, sometimes with success, but with the "masculinizing" side-effect of growing ***s. :roll:

It also makes my voice a little bit higher, and makes me very anxious and nervous.
Those all sounds like "feminizing" effects
 

postman

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im currently reading more on this topic, really interesting, it seems at the moment that their is a lot of speculation on the best cycles, is it a case of it just working yet nobody can currently say it's a,b,c,d and grow?
Testosterone must have more to it than currently known?

Would DHEA not be the best option while inhibiting estrogen? Or is this too subtle an effect ?
I dunno, like with everything else concerning diet and health there are many different viewpoints and conflicting ideas. I think most people who take steroids don't have access to pure testosterone, and many of the steroids they use have various different side effects that pure testosterone maybe wouldn't have, also affecting the physiology in different ways.
I don't know about DHEA, I've never tried it or read much about it, might be worth a try though if you can get your hands on it.
 

PeatThemAll

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Man, you just struck a chord with me. I've been thinking about changing energetic status of people with the changing food/nutritional environment these past 80 or more (especially last 40?) years. The people being the subunits of what might be thought of as the greater structure that we collectively make up, the society/culture.
And how, as the energetic status/stability of the people change, how that in turn changes society.
We really need a new field of science here.. Nutritional sociology?

Interesting idea. Either that or, as Agent Smith mentioned in The Matrix, adjusting our "growth" expectations in line with our past behavior, although I think that the last couple of generations are more like cancers of the system and/or free radicals than viruses.
 

XPlus

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snowboard111

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im currently reading more on this topic, really interesting, it seems at the moment that their is a lot of speculation on the best cycles, is it a case of it just working yet nobody can currently say it's a,b,c,d and grow?
Testosterone must have more to it than currently known?

Would DHEA not be the best option while inhibiting estrogen? Or is this too subtle an effect ?

Bioavailability, androgenicity, and estrogenicity of DHEA
 

snowboard111

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I don't know how old you are but that's what Peat wrote... I guess, it might not be needed if you're younger than 30. Plus, I don't remember who said/wrote that DHEA level rise in period of stress to decline afterward, probably one of the way estrogen rise as well... (not really sure).

Progesterone Pregnenolone & DHEA - Three Youth-Associated Hormones
Young people produce about 12 to 15 milligrams of DHEA per day, and that amount decreases by about 2 mg. per day for every decade after the age of 30.
 

lvysaur

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I think that's quite a leap to think that response is because of estrogen. Anyways I don't think hair loss is masculinization, did you ever read hair like a fox?

I don't think it's a huge leap at all, as these phases are accompanied by intestinal gas and it's a known scientific fact that endotoxin increases estrogen.
 

bboone

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Estrogen (which I'm assuming is ultimately responsible for the response from gas-inducing vegetables) is consistently and powerfully "masculinizing" for me. It incites loss of scalp hair, thickening of facial hair, and an increase in sex drive. I agree that these are all very undesirable things (my sex drive is fine without it, I become hypersexual with estrogen).

It also makes my voice a little bit higher, and makes me very anxious and nervous.

do you notice these effects after eating food that contains estrogen or have you "supplemented" with estradiol to see the effects?

this is purely anecdotal, of course, but after i started eating more carbs and calories, my facial hair growth rate has at least tripled, my chest hair density has doubled and i have started growing noticeable hair on my forearms. i have always been naturally strong and muscular with good stature and broad shoulders, but i have been underfeeding and overtraining for quite some time, so i may just have retarded my body's natural growth rate. i had lost a little bit of hair (maybe 1-2 cm) on the left side of my hairline over the past 4 years or so (i'm 23 now), but this regrew after 5 weeks of eating properly, which leads me to believe it was caused by stress. my nails also grow much, much faster now. i used to have to cut them once or twice a month, but now i have to cut them every week, and sometimes twice a week in order to keep them at a comfortable length
 

bboone

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Young people produce about 12 to 15 milligrams of DHEA per day, and that amount decreases by about 2 mg. per day for every decade after the age of 30.

so approx a week after turning 30 your body no longer produces DHEA, or am i misreading this?
 

Dr. B

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I was thinking of trying Dhea with niacinamide and T3 after reading around on it,vitamin E seems to down regulate receptors for androgens,niacinamide increases receptors according to those studies and others.
Are you saying vitamin E is anti androgenic?
This seems to be true when I have the big dose of thornes vitamin E it seems to cause less hardons less often, possibly even temporary shrinkage in the testes and that area
 

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