Warning Importing Androsterone to Germany Anti-Doping-Law

[appotis]

Hello,

I would like to warn you about importing Androsterone to Germany. You should know you the risk involved. I didn't know that.
My shipment got caugh by the customs. Androsterone is on the list of the relative new Anti-Doping-Law.
So this is a criminal act. It is different than importing pharmacuticals without prescription.
I ordered it just for general health purpose not for improving sport performance.
Other shipment before made through the customs. But when it get caught you have a serious problem.
Anyways I contacted a lawyer and we will see how it goes.

 

[Jocko]

Thank you for letting us know. I do not want to be involved in anything similar anytime soon.

 

[opethfeldt]

That really sucks. Hope it works out well for you. Given how new the law is, you'd think they possibly be more lenient about it. It's weird, I think you just get a letter saying "don't do it again" here in the states.

 

[Unknownuser]

Well I ordered pansterone to Germany. Hopefully that is not listed as doping ?

 

[SonOfEurope]

In the meantime prescribe Estrogen to "anti-scocial" (Anti-system) 14 year old boys.

.....

 

[Andman]

that sucks was it an idealabs order by any chance?

 

[Fexxx]

If it s your first conflict with the customs you have a very good chance that they will only „warn“ you Not do it again. So wait with a lawyer. Pansterone is also on the dopic list (=DHEA!)

 

[Fexxx]

BTW: do NOT Answer to the mailing! Better say nothing means it’s harder for them to find arguments that YOU ordered it and YOU knowed what you have done.

keep cool - can take months to get the next Info from them. Theire desk is Full with issues like this so they focus on more serious orders with high quantity.

 

[Mauritio]

Hello,

I would like to warn you about importing Androsterone to Germany. You should know you the risk involved. I didn't know that.
My shipment got caugh by the customs. Androsterone is on the list of the relative new Anti-Doping-Law.
So this is a criminal act. It is different than importing pharmacuticals without prescription.
I ordered it just for general health purpose not for improving sport performance.
Other shipment before made through the customs. But when it get caught you have a serious problem.
Anyways I contacted a lawyer and we will see how it goes.
View attachment 22991

Wow I'm glad I still have some. Never had a problem ordering androsterone ,pregnenolone, dht etc...


My only shipping that I had to pay a fine for was from a Mexican pharmacy and it contained antibiotics and acetazolamide. The shipping was worth 100 € and I had to pay a 60€ fine .
I like to order from the east more nowadays .

 

[Mauritio]

So this law seems to be from 2015 ,but updated in late 2020 .

The main goal seems to be to avoid doping in a competition in sports and dealing with drugs.
And I think it's clear this doesn't apply here.

On their list of prohibited substances, they don't even feature androsterone . They only list 1-androsterone ,which is a different chemical! So I wouldn't be surprised if they just mixed it up because of lack of knowledge of these things.
(1-Androsterone - Wikipedia)

(Androsterone - Wikipedia)

Also , when you're giving it up and haven't had a chance to use it ,it seems you're gonna get out of it without a fine :

"8) Nach Absatz 2 wird nicht bestraft, wer freiwillig die tatsächliche Verfügungsgewalt über das Dopingmittel aufgibt, bevor er es anwendet oder anwenden lässt."

AntiDopG - Gesetz gegen Doping im Sport

 

[Michael Mohn]

If you don't compete in sports or train athletes who compete the doping law does not apply to you.
You might still have to pay a fine for importing medication.
The AntidopG law prescribes 2-10 years of imprisonment. If you bought a 100g bag they might go after you assuming you deal which carries the heaviest punishments. § 1 AntiDopG Zweck des Gesetzes Anti-Doping-Gesetz

Maybe find a doctor who makes you a prescription for some medical reason but that might be hard to find.
Recently I asked my doctor if he would recommend testosterone treatment as my T is always borderline low
and she scoffed I don't do doping! Retarded c..! But doctors are scared of this law.

 

[Michael Mohn]

"8) Nach Absatz 2 wird nicht bestraft, wer freiwillig die tatsächliche Verfügungsgewalt über das Dopingmittel aufgibt, bevor er es anwendet oder anwenden lässt."

AntiDopG - Gesetz gegen Doping im Sport

Absatz 2 forbids to apply doping on others. If a trainer buys gear but never used it on athletes and hands it over he doesn't get fined.
If I remember correctly international doping regulations don't even specify individual molecules anymore but all derivatives from dhea upwards are outlawed.
The only defense is not competing in sports.

 

[Mauritio]

So the list doesnt even seem to apply here ,instead they look after the international agreements . And if it's true that they ban DHEA and upwards , androsterone might actually be included here.
On the other hand its obvious that you're not gonna deal or dope with this.

 

[appotis]

that sucks was it an idealabs order by any chance?

Yes, it was an idealabs order mit DHL Express delivery. I have ordered many times before without any problem. This time I just got unlucky. DHL Express get much less checked in customs than the other cheaper delivery option from my experience.

 

[appotis]

BTW: do NOT Answer to the mailing! Better say nothing means it’s harder for them to find arguments that YOU ordered it and YOU knowed what you have done.

keep cool - can take months to get the next Info from them. Theire desk is Full with issues like this so they focus on more serious orders with high quantity.

That is what I read everywhere. Anything you say will just worse your situation.
But I not sure if doing nothing would be the right approach. You have a deadline to provide a statement.
At the last page you can accept a fine but it dos not says what amount etc. and I not sure if I accept myself guilty with that.

I do not want to risk anything. So I got a laywer. It costs will cost me 800€ in the best case scenario if the case will be settled down.
The lawyers first move was to get file access.

Attached are the other pages of the mail.

 

[appotis]

Absatz 2 forbids to apply doping on others. If a trainer buys gear but never used it on athletes and hands it over he doesn't get fined.
If I remember correctly international doping regulations don't even specify individual molecules anymore but all derivatives from dhea upwards are outlawed.
The only defense is not competing in sports.

I am not musculare just lean. Furhermore I do not have any fitness studio membership.
I said to my lawyer that I wanted to use for general health.

 

[Mauritio]

Amy update on this ?

 

[Peater Griffin]

I am no lawyer, but I think the AntiDopG should not apply for this case.

The police states §4 Abs. 1 Ziffer 3, which says:
"Mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu drei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe wird bestraft, wer entgegen § 2 Absatz 3 in Verbindung mit einer Rechtsverordnung nach § 6 Absatz 1 Satz 1 Nummer 1, jeweils auch in Verbindung mit einer Rechtsverordnung nach § 6 Absatz 1 Satz 1 Nummer 2 oder Satz 2, ein Dopingmittel erwirbt, besitzt oder verbringt,"

So that paragraph refers to §2 Absatz 3, which again says:
"Es ist verboten, ein Dopingmittel, das ein in der Anlage zu diesem Gesetz aufgeführter Stoff ist oder einen solchen enthält, in nicht geringer Menge zum Zwecke des Dopings beim Menschen im Sport zu erwerben, zu besitzen oder in oder durch den Geltungsbereich dieses Gesetzes zu verbringen."

So, there are even 2 criteria, why these paragraphs should not apply:
1.: the purpose you bought the andro is not for doping ("zum Zwecke des Dopings")
2.: as long as you didn't buy more than 12 bottles from idealabs, you should not reach the non-minor amount ("in nicht geringer Menge"), which starts at 3000mg.

AntiDopG - Gesetz gegen Doping im Sport

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/dmmv_2020/DmMV.pdf

Nevertheless, I think they can always get you by the Verbringungsverbot gemäß Arzneimittelgesetz (§73 AMG). Basically, as a private person you're not allowed to buy ANY medication via mailorder from outside of the EU. (And as per my understanding of AMG's definition of the term medication, this would even include supplements due to §2 Absatz 1 Satz 2a AMG)

Einfuhr von Arzneimittel nach Deutschland

§ 73 AMG - Einzelnorm

§ 2 AMG - Einzelnorm

 

[boris]

That is what I read everywhere. Anything you say will just worse your situation.
But I not sure if doing nothing would be the right approach. You have a deadline to provide a statement.
At the last page you can accept a fine but it dos not says what amount etc. and I not sure if I accept myself guilty with that.

I do not want to risk anything. So I got a laywer. It costs will cost me 800€ in the best case scenario if the case will be settled down.
The lawyers first move was to get file access.

Attached are the other pages of the mail.

I had a similar letter with a deadline and a fine and just ignored it. Never heard from them again.

 

[appotis]

I am no lawyer, but I think the AntiDopG should not apply for this case.

The police states §4 Abs. 1 Ziffer 3, which says:
"Mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu drei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe wird bestraft, wer entgegen § 2 Absatz 3 in Verbindung mit einer Rechtsverordnung nach § 6 Absatz 1 Satz 1 Nummer 1, jeweils auch in Verbindung mit einer Rechtsverordnung nach § 6 Absatz 1 Satz 1 Nummer 2 oder Satz 2, ein Dopingmittel erwirbt, besitzt oder verbringt,"

So that paragraph refers to §2 Absatz 3, which again says:
"Es ist verboten, ein Dopingmittel, das ein in der Anlage zu diesem Gesetz aufgeführter Stoff ist oder einen solchen enthält, in nicht geringer Menge zum Zwecke des Dopings beim Menschen im Sport zu erwerben, zu besitzen oder in oder durch den Geltungsbereich dieses Gesetzes zu verbringen."

So, there are even 2 criteria, why these paragraphs should not apply:
1.: the purpose you bought the andro is not for doping ("zum Zwecke des Dopings")
2.: as long as you didn't buy more than 12 bottles from idealabs, you should not reach the non-minor amount ("in nicht geringer Menge"), which starts at 3000mg.

AntiDopG - Gesetz gegen Doping im Sport

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/dmmv_2020/DmMV.pdf

Nevertheless, I think they can always get you by the Verbringungsverbot gemäß Arzneimittelgesetz (§73 AMG). Basically, as a private person you're not allowed to buy ANY medication via mailorder from outside of the EU. (And as per my understanding of AMG's definition of the term medication, this would even include supplements due to §2 Absatz 1 Satz 2a AMG)

Einfuhr von Arzneimittel nach Deutschland

§ 73 AMG - Einzelnorm

§ 2 AMG - Einzelnorm

I think you are right. So far I have no statement from my lawyer. But I will keep you updated guys.
You read all kind of statements in the internet with house search etc.
I just want to be on the safe side and keep my stress levels low ^^