Tyw. Said Something That Makes Alot Of Sense!

[tca300]

I dont understand why so many people who strongly disagree with Ray, bother coming onto a site dedicated towards his work and its understanding. Seems... a little.... strange...

Those who attack Ray on a personal level are in my opinion... scum. A very generous, intelligent, elderly man who has helped countless, saved lives, and stepped outside the box like he has deserves respect, much more than many give him.

 

[Braveheart]

I dont understand why so many people who strongly disagree with Ray, bother coming onto a site dedicated towards his work and its understanding. Seems... a little.... strange...

Those who attack Ray on a personal level are in my opinion... scum. A very generous, intelligent, elderly man who has helped countless, saved lives, and stepped outside the box like he has deserves respect, much more than many give him.

as a few good people have said in the past: "Forgive them for they know not what they do."

 

[nikolabeacon]

@haidut @Drareg @Tarmander

I do not know a man personaly and I never met him in real life so I can not tell you He is "autist" or similar personal things which people will see as ad hominem....I dont have a slight reason for attacking someone....If someone chosed to spoke to public about nutrition and health...than he needs to be carefull whst he says and how he present himself...and be ready to be judged....he is not a God...i have a right gor my opinion...someone can think of me worst things and express it here.....i do not care....
And those information about his ilnesses are not my fantasy....well there are lot of information on internet about it.on some groups and forums....i wont post herevthd sources...and even he mentioned eye melanoma and many other health problems .....and those info are least important..

...I just look all that he has written and than look at it as a one wholeness... at his sentences and listen how he talks about the things...details are important. I have that strong impresion .... maybe i am wrong but to have phd in biology and strive for example:

To say... for ex. Estrogen, serotonin, cortisol, are "bad"--supress it as much as u can, progesterone, pregnenolone , thyroid are ptotective----push it as much as u feel comfortable......but how can you know where is dangerous limit for all people and recommend that to all people under thousand different circumstances....it seems that people here are only worried abou "too much" ...and nobody about" too low"...when it comes to stress hormones.....i don say that we should now try to stricty define that limit ( which is impossible) but u can not advise it as a constant hypohondriac striving too all people....that is higly individual and depends on specifgic situation and should be judged by individual by hoe they feel , sleep, productivity...and etc.....

To say ...Starch feeds bacteria and causes endotoxin----avoid starch like a plague, Leaf veggies are full of goitrogens and anti thyroid substances---best to avoid.... Gelatin is anti inflammatory ---- its good to have it regularly, Ca and Sucrose are stimulating -----push it to the max, coffeine is good----have it regularly....darkness is stresfull-----keep those 500 W incadescent bulbs until bedtime to avoid stress.....is a so narrow, reductionist and autistic way of thinking ...its clear as day.....alll those thingx can be said in reverse manner in various spdciffic real lifd scenarios

______

To say....copy metabolism and hormonal profile of a growing and developing( organs, skeleton, brain, ...all) young organism in order to achieve anti aging.... is for me Unreal and impossible.....those two are completely different phenomenas...completely.....when organism is in process of developing and growth( before 25 years of age) there is for a reason why "pro metabolic hormones" prevail over others " stresfull hormones"...when you fully develop around 25 or so ( best hormonal state and fertility) that surge of pro metabolic youth hormones drop to "normal " and there is a state of homeostasis for a simple reason ( growth is finished)...so i really do not understand the notion that we should copy metabolism as we are still growing babies.....anti aging or regeneration is a achieved with keeping that state after finished growth and by homeostasis of cell functioning.....not by pushing prometabolic hormones as u wish it....which is actually very stresfull....esspecially when done routinely.....and thid balance also is highly individual thing and depends on a type of life and activities and personality of an individual.....

And if someone thinks as Raymond Peat ...that there is one perfect hormonal protocol and diet( as he clearly stated in one politic and science interview) as we are rats in labaratory under glass bell....without taking into account...our complex brains, emotions, and its interaction with others and with environmrnt.....it strongly sounds autistic and Unreal.....its increadible neglecting ....giving medical advices for hormones or with nutritional advices is not simple and can ruin someones life....


When your thyroid is supressed it is supressed for a reason....all life activities and environmental factors should be taken into account when you want to correct the issue.....no his reasoning is " have you checked your thyroid" , " take thyroid" and so on.....you will only supress real cause with that approach...for me that shoul be last option after changing all life activities and diet approaches....same is with progesterone, serotonin, estrogen...and etc....serotonin is elevated because cells are stressed....many psyhodelic drugs can lower it artifficialy but you didnt solved the cause......

So in his work those informations about hormones are usefull practicaly ..Those ideas about hormones are usefull because you should notice it and than start to change your activities....that is a real power of the brain and us as a human beings...we have have that ability to change environment and make interventions to establish better circumstances.....its easiest to take a pill and continue to live in stresfull way and surrounding.....according to him we would still be living in the caves eating paleo diet ....people evolved because we constantly changed environmental circumstances to better because stress hormones pushed us to do so....just look what people in colder climates done....not by taking pills to optimize metabolism....it s only a supression ....and artifficial boost....our hormonal profile is shapen with environment and activities....you we feel great with supplementing but you will not be in state to change real things.....hormones are body signals that we should act.....lifespan duobled after invention ov electricity, after shortening of working hours, after development of processing the grains, dentistry, , after better, hygienic and warmer homes and architecture and so on....so environmenal activities are much more powerfull than we imagine....

This is my opinion....i have i right to think like this....yes?

And regarding details about sugar and gelatin and Ca and milk

About Milk i said what are all bad sides besides supressive amounts of that much Ca and toxicith of crazy amount of P you will get with 2 quarts or more( Ca will not help you with it)...many types of estrogens( majority) stay in skimm milk because are water soluble...milk is sky high in glutamate which is very supressive( in some people its a cause of depression and low libido)....tryptophan in milk is not so easily supressed by Ca as he thinks....and it leads to Serotonin which stimulates Prolactin production....and that means hair shedding, reciding hairline, sebum, acne.......this is esspecially powerfull if thyroid is not optimal.....Ca is good to havd in the diet but in such quantities esspecciallybfor people over 30 is very potent supressor of a metabolism and cell respiration...which can raise a cortisol for a compensation....and both temp and pulse can be high in that state...you can live for years in that state esspecially if you are younger....but many other problems will be acumulated over that period of running on cortisol....damage of all membranes, organs, ..receding hair, all from too much cortisol in the blood stream....u can opose it with thyroid medication but i do not see a logic to supress metabolism and than take thyroid....and from lot of evidence from lot of people milk cause severe constipation esspecially skimm milk....that is probably a reason for all those carrot recommendation ...now tons of mushrooms....i dont get it at all....mushrooms will save you maybe from reeceding hairline from milk consumption because ther are aromatase inhibitors...and it will relieve constipation slighltly...and for slighlty hypothyroid people.ratio of Mg to Ca should be 1:1 or 2:1 ca:mg....he is not advocate of mg supp because he said in mail that its very irritating to the intestines...but he taken it for years...and he drank tons of coffee.....and u see he do many things and supp that peoople here do not know and are not informed....but even with cooffee you ill hardly manage to have 1.5 g of magnesium or more for 2 or more grams ....i know his rationale that good thyroid saves mg but i do not se any evidence for it...esspecially because Ca can supress thyroid......(too much liquid and inconvenience is least problem but for me and my activities its a big one...and esp. For hypothyroid people)....since i lowered milk intake to cup or two i feel ten times better.....i am not a best example because i am young and healthy and didnt have serious problems from milk but i feel increadible difference....essoevisly in sleep quality

When i said sugar feeds bacteria i was reffering to all sugar sources he recommends....if its from juices there is no need for evidence.....juice is full of potential bad stuff for intestines.....esspecially today when juice is made from worst fruits and fruits are generaly bad and unripe today......even if they are ripe many people are allegic to certain compunds, and acid in fruit is not so nice in my opinion.....i am not a believer in tons of fruit comnsumptions....fruit should be used in small quantities as a source of some valuable compunds....but with large amounts of fruit expect many problems.....if you rely on table sugar problem is lack of nutrients...i know that people here like to talk that he said table sugar should be used temporarily but he really doesnt thinks so and he personallt has tons of table sugar a day.....he is case for himself....he can take tons of supplements balance it somehow.....

And thing that fructose doesnt require insulin is not good exactly for Zn ....When you have starch or glucose ...insulin response is higher and all glucose is effectively managed.....fructose requires Zn for handling it....and potassium in potatoes and fruits is usefull only for more effective usage of all glucose by the cells.....so if you have large percent of sugar in form of sucrose there can be too much fructose in the blood stream at once which will waste Zn......

And even if you think that this ex. Have no studies to back it up....well u have tons of examples here and on frutarian forums...that people suffer from acne and dry skin when they have lot of sugar.....Zn deficiency is common cause of acne and dry skin....and Zn deficiency is very anti thyroid.....Zn is pro thyroid mineral.....And his recommendations with milk and liver will lead also to too much copper in relation to Zn

And Gelatin is terrible because its made from rooting animal flesh and skins.....all no matter if it hydrolised...and too much glycine will slow down transit time and icrease serotonin.....and if you rely on broths u will have many potential toxins, heavy metals and etc....

And thing that starch feeds bacteria and that it stimulates fat storage is nonsense.....

If he said that milk digestion requires progesterone and thyroid same can be said for starch....and what then????

I can eat tons of starch with zero gas....and if i up sugar too much above 200 g i start to get small acne on my back.....and if i exculde starch i get pain in my teeths after couple of days....probably because of lack of k2 which is produced in the intestine from properly digested starch....people here are seeking gor k2 which is absent in peat diet....also manganese.....

I just know that i have eaten starch all my life and i have perfec health and stools....


i just look at real world evidence....I do not ssee much sucess from peat diet in peoples experiences...there are many problems....we can not neglect it....its easier to say well your thyroid is bad.....and even thyroid medication is not that simple as many thinks....it affects many things and can make total mess....

You can not say people are dumb they are not following advices strictly and correctly.....


And for many people its a huge stress and can lead to isolation....those two are most important in my opinion for thyroid health and progesterone....far more powerfull than diet...


And i am not anarcho primitivist when it comes to medication in speciffic cases and illnesses ....it is a must for many things......but to routinely take it .and rely on it....esspecially if you didnt researched it personaly ...its insane and it will ruin your health....

@Drareg I would really like to know Lings opinion on pounding Ca and Sugar, avoiding starch and routinely supplementing progesterone and thyroid.

 

[Matt1951]

Nicolabeacon, I enjoy your posts. It is good to hear differing opinions.
There is still a lot of controversy over how much milk, full fat milk or low fat milk, or yogurt. Drinking milk: the pros and cons
Glycine and niacinamide have worked a miracle for my 63 year old wife, who could barely walk at Christmas. Now she is walking very well, without knee replacement. So I conclude that Peat recommended supplements can work, although differing opinions are welcome.

 

[nikolabeacon]

@Drareg and that statement about play...well u dont understand...let me explain in short....

If someone is not having a very strong meaning in his life and strong interest in something....or if he is not playfull and enjoying in his activities...even best nutrition and hormone protocol will not going to help that person......

We are here because our ancestors have a strong desire for survival and future generation....they struggled very hard to establish better circumstances as i explained in above post....read carefully that explanation....there lies true power of our brains and thats is what makes us different from other animal world......we are not simple life forms.....we have a power of perception and changing our environment for better....in order to enjoy better life and health.....we do not getvmuch benefits from waiting that something will fall from the sky...or by taking pills in order to feel better......

And one thkng i forgot in previos post about genetics ...and how Peat use it maniacaly to prove that all talk about genetics is nonsense.....and here also u can see that reductionist thinking.....genetics can bechanged completely....but still their power is such strong STRONG....that u can do very little in one generation to make big changes...esspevially when it comes to physical characteristics which are very impactfull on health...those memories are very poverfulll and you can not say...well no problem we can correct that easily....

Yes you can change everything with changing environment.....but that process is sooo slow....it needs generations to pass....and with proper constant right stimulis you will change some features..u will get nowere if you try violently to change everything in a short period ...things do not function so easily in a real world scenario

 

[Tarmander]

@haidut @Drareg @Tarmander

I do not know a man personaly and I never met him in real life so I can not tell you He is "autist" or similar personal things which people will see as ad hominem....I dont have a slight reason for attacking someone....If someone chosed to spoke to public about nutrition and health...than he needs to be carefull whst he says and how he present himself...and be ready to be judged....he is not a God...i have a right gor my opinion...someone can think of me worst things and express it here.....i do not care....
And those information about his ilnesses are not my fantasy....well there are lot of information on internet about it.on some groups and forums....i wont post herevthd sources...and even he mentioned eye melanoma and many other health problems .....and those info are least important..

...I just look all that he has written and than look at it as a one wholeness... at his sentences and listen how he talks about the things...details are important. I have that strong impresion .... maybe i am wrong but to have phd in biology and strive for example:

To say... for ex. Estrogen, serotonin, cortisol, are "bad"--supress it as much as u can, progesterone, pregnenolone , thyroid are ptotective----push it as much as u feel comfortable......but how can you know where is dangerous limit for all people and recommend that to all people under thousand different circumstances....it seems that people here are only worried abou "too much" ...and nobody about" too low"...when it comes to stress hormones.....i don say that we should now try to stricty define that limit ( which is impossible) but u can not advise it as a constant hypohondriac striving too all people....that is higly individual and depends on specifgic situation and should be judged by individual by hoe they feel , sleep, productivity...and etc.....

To say ...Starch feeds bacteria and causes endotoxin----avoid starch like a plague, Leaf veggies are full of goitrogens and anti thyroid substances---best to avoid.... Gelatin is anti inflammatory ---- its good to have it regularly, Ca and Sucrose are stimulating -----push it to the max, coffeine is good----have it regularly....darkness is stresfull-----keep those 500 W incadescent bulbs until bedtime to avoid stress.....is a so narrow, reductionist and autistic way of thinking ...its clear as day.....alll those thingx can be said in reverse manner in various spdciffic real lifd scenarios

______

To say....copy metabolism and hormonal profile of a growing and developing( organs, skeleton, brain, ...all) young organism in order to achieve anti aging.... is for me Unreal and impossible.....those two are completely different phenomenas...completely.....when organism is in process of developing and growth( before 25 years of age) there is for a reason why "pro metabolic hormones" prevail over others " stresfull hormones"...when you fully develop around 25 or so ( best hormonal state and fertility) that surge of pro metabolic youth hormones drop to "normal " and there is a state of homeostasis for a simple reason ( growth is finished)...so i really do not understand the notion that we should copy metabolism as we are still growing babies.....anti aging or regeneration is a achieved with keeping that state after finished growth and by homeostasis of cell functioning.....not by pushing prometabolic hormones as u wish it....which is actually very stresfull....esspecially when done routinely.....and thid balance also is highly individual thing and depends on a type of life and activities and personality of an individual.....

And if someone thinks as Raymond Peat ...that there is one perfect hormonal protocol and diet( as he clearly stated in one politic and science interview) as we are rats in labaratory under glass bell....without taking into account...our complex brains, emotions, and its interaction with others and with environmrnt.....it strongly sounds autistic and Unreal.....its increadible neglecting ....giving medical advices for hormones or with nutritional advices is not simple and can ruin someones life....


When your thyroid is supressed it is supressed for a reason....all life activities and environmental factors should be taken into account when you want to correct the issue.....no his reasoning is " have you checked your thyroid" , " take thyroid" and so on.....you will only supress real cause with that approach...for me that shoul be last option after changing all life activities and diet approaches....same is with progesterone, serotonin, estrogen...and etc....serotonin is elevated because cells are stressed....many psyhodelic drugs can lower it artifficialy but you didnt solved the cause......

So in his work those informations about hormones are usefull practicaly ..Those ideas about hormones are usefull because you should notice it and than start to change your activities....that is a real power of the brain and us as a human beings...we have have that ability to change environment and make interventions to establish better circumstances.....its easiest to take a pill and continue to live in stresfull way and surrounding.....according to him we would still be living in the caves eating paleo diet ....people evolved because we constantly changed environmental circumstances to better because stress hormones pushed us to do so....just look what people in colder climates done....not by taking pills to optimize metabolism....it s only a supression ....and artifficial boost....our hormonal profile is shapen with environment and activities....you we feel great with supplementing but you will not be in state to change real things.....hormones are body signals that we should act.....lifespan duobled after invention ov electricity, after shortening of working hours, after development of processing the grains, dentistry, , after better, hygienic and warmer homes and architecture and so on....so environmenal activities are much more powerfull than we imagine....

This is my opinion....i have i right to think like this....yes?

And regarding details about sugar and gelatin and Ca and milk

About Milk i said what are all bad sides besides supressive amounts of that much Ca and toxicith of crazy amount of P you will get with 2 quarts or more( Ca will not help you with it)...many types of estrogens( majority) stay in skimm milk because are water soluble...milk is sky high in glutamate which is very supressive( in some people its a cause of depression and low libido)....tryptophan in milk is not so easily supressed by Ca as he thinks....and it leads to Serotonin which stimulates Prolactin production....and that means hair shedding, reciding hairline, sebum, acne.......this is esspecially powerfull if thyroid is not optimal.....Ca is good to havd in the diet but in such quantities esspecciallybfor people over 30 is very potent supressor of a metabolism and cell respiration...which can raise a cortisol for a compensation....and both temp and pulse can be high in that state...you can live for years in that state esspecially if you are younger....but many other problems will be acumulated over that period of running on cortisol....damage of all membranes, organs, ..receding hair, all from too much cortisol in the blood stream....u can opose it with thyroid medication but i do not see a logic to supress metabolism and than take thyroid....and from lot of evidence from lot of people milk cause severe constipation esspecially skimm milk....that is probably a reason for all those carrot recommendation ...now tons of mushrooms....i dont get it at all....mushrooms will save you maybe from reeceding hairline from milk consumption because ther are aromatase inhibitors...and it will relieve constipation slighltly...and for slighlty hypothyroid people.ratio of Mg to Ca should be 1:1 or 2:1 ca:mg....he is not advocate of mg supp because he said in mail that its very irritating to the intestines...but he taken it for years...and he drank tons of coffee.....and u see he do many things and supp that peoople here do not know and are not informed....but even with cooffee you ill hardly manage to have 1.5 g of magnesium or more for 2 or more grams ....i know his rationale that good thyroid saves mg but i do not se any evidence for it...esspecially because Ca can supress thyroid......(too much liquid and inconvenience is least problem but for me and my activities its a big one...and esp. For hypothyroid people)....since i lowered milk intake to cup or two i feel ten times better.....i am not a best example because i am young and healthy and didnt have serious problems from milk but i feel increadible difference....essoevisly in sleep quality

When i said sugar feeds bacteria i was reffering to all sugar sources he recommends....if its from juices there is no need for evidence.....juice is full of potential bad stuff for intestines.....esspecially today when juice is made from worst fruits and fruits are generaly bad and unripe today......even if they are ripe many people are allegic to certain compunds, and acid in fruit is not so nice in my opinion.....i am not a believer in tons of fruit comnsumptions....fruit should be used in small quantities as a source of some valuable compunds....but with large amounts of fruit expect many problems.....if you rely on table sugar problem is lack of nutrients...i know that people here like to talk that he said table sugar should be used temporarily but he really doesnt thinks so and he personallt has tons of table sugar a day.....he is case for himself....he can take tons of supplements balance it somehow.....

And thing that fructose doesnt require insulin is not good exactly for Zn ....When you have starch or glucose ...insulin response is higher and all glucose is effectively managed.....fructose requires Zn for handling it....and potassium in potatoes and fruits is usefull only for more effective usage of all glucose by the cells.....so if you have large percent of sugar in form of sucrose there can be too much fructose in the blood stream at once which will waste Zn......

And even if you think that this ex. Have no studies to back it up....well u have tons of examples here and on frutarian forums...that people suffer from acne and dry skin when they have lot of sugar.....Zn deficiency is common cause of acne and dry skin....and Zn deficiency is very anti thyroid.....Zn is pro thyroid mineral.....And his recommendations with milk and liver will lead also to too much copper in relation to Zn

And Gelatin is terrible because its made from rooting animal flesh and skins.....all no matter if it hydrolised...and too much glycine will slow down transit time and icrease serotonin.....and if you rely on broths u will have many potential toxins, heavy metals and etc....

And thing that starch feeds bacteria and that it stimulates fat storage is nonsense.....

If he said that milk digestion requires progesterone and thyroid same can be said for starch....and what then????

I can eat tons of starch with zero gas....and if i up sugar too much above 200 g i start to get small acne on my back.....and if i exculde starch i get pain in my teeths after couple of days....probably because of lack of k2 which is produced in the intestine from properly digested starch....people here are seeking gor k2 which is absent in peat diet....also manganese.....

I just know that i have eaten starch all my life and i have perfec health and stools....


i just look at real world evidence....I do not ssee much sucess from peat diet in peoples experiences...there are many problems....we can not neglect it....its easier to say well your thyroid is bad.....and even thyroid medication is not that simple as many thinks....it affects many things and can make total mess....

You can not say people are dumb they are not following advices strictly and correctly.....


And for many people its a huge stress and can lead to isolation....those two are most important in my opinion for thyroid health and progesterone....far more powerfull than diet...


And i am not anarcho primitivist when it comes to medication in speciffic cases and illnesses ....it is a must for many things......but to routinely take it .and rely on it....esspecially if you didnt researched it personaly ...its insane and it will ruin your health....

@Drareg I would really like to know Lings opinion on pounding Ca and Sugar, avoiding starch and routinely supplementing progesterone and thyroid.

You say a lot of things that makes me think you have a nice hefty dose of immaturity. Nothing wrong with that, just have not had your teeth kicked in enough, not enough mistakes.

If someone chosed to spoke to public about nutrition and health...than he needs to be carefull whst he says and how he present himself...and be ready to be judged....he is not a God...i have a right gor my opinion...someone can think of me worst things and express it here.....i do not care....

You tear down a lot, like a teenager. This statement is petulant, and saying you have a right to your opinion is like saying you have a right to your elbows :

When your thyroid is supressed it is supressed for a reason....all life activities and environmental factors should be taken into account when you want to correct the issue.....no his reasoning is " have you checked your thyroid" , " take thyroid" and so on.....you will only supress real cause with that approach...

Here is another one that tells me you do not have a hefty dose of life under your belt. This statement is in some ways true, you want to strive for solving first causes. One thing you learn as life goes on though is sometimes you just HAVE to solve something RIGHT now. Obviously you want to do the work, but that work can take years. Life is extremely complicated, and understanding has a depth that continues indefinitely. You get that the more life ends up differently then how you want it to, or increases in complexity beyond your understanding rapidly.

This is my opinion....i have i right to think like this....yes?

Cmon man grow up. You are using opinion in the same way you use "preference." You like vanilla over chocolate...that's preference.

This:

To say... for ex. Estrogen, serotonin, cortisol, are "bad"--supress it as much as u can, progesterone, pregnenolone , thyroid are ptotective----push it as much as u feel comfortable......but how can you know where is dangerous limit for all people and recommend that to all people under thousand different circumstances

is veritably false. There is ample evidence that Peat is not just recommending to thousands of people to take as much thyroid as possible. Peat has simplified many concepts for people that help give them a direction. He isn't a god, he has given a tool that has problems and benefits, just like relativity or genetic theory. There is a framework with drawbacks and benefits that help people make sense of infinite complexity. There is also ample evidence that it works for people who nothing else has worked for.

And those information about his ilnesses are not my fantasy....well there are lot of information on internet about it.on some groups and forums....i wont post herevthd sources...

Basically worthless.

 

[Regina]

You say a lot of things that makes me think you have a nice hefty dose of immaturity. Nothing wrong with that, just have not had your teeth kicked in enough, not enough mistakes.



You tear down a lot, like a teenager. This statement is petulant, and saying you have a right to your opinion is like saying you have a right to your elbows :



Here is another one that tells me you do not have a hefty dose of life under your belt. This statement is in some ways true, you want to strive for solving first causes. One thing you learn as life goes on though is sometimes you just HAVE to solve something RIGHT now. Obviously you want to do the work, but that work can take years. Life is extremely complicated, and understanding has a depth that continues indefinitely. You get that the more life ends up differently then how you want it to, or increases in complexity beyond your understanding rapidly.



Cmon man grow up. You are using opinion in the same way you use "preference." You like vanilla over chocolate...that's preference.

This:



is veritably false. There is ample evidence that Peat is not just recommending to thousands of people to take as much thyroid as possible. Peat has simplified many concepts for people that help give them a direction. He isn't a god, he has given a tool that has problems and benefits, just like relativity or genetic theory. There is a framework with drawbacks and benefits that help people make sense of indefinite complexity. There is also ample evidence that it works for people who nothing else has worked for.




Basically worthless.

Discerning use of the word "preference" Tarmander.

 

[Drareg]

@Drareg and that statement about play...well u dont understand...let me explain in short....

If someone is not having a very strong meaning in his life and strong interest in something....or if he is not playfull and enjoying in his activities...even best nutrition and hormone protocol will not going to help that person......

We are here because our ancestors have a strong desire for survival and future generation....they struggled very hard to establish better circumstances as i explained in above post....read carefully that explanation....there lies true power of our brains and thats is what makes us different from other animal world......we are not simple life forms.....we have a power of perception and changing our environment for better....in order to enjoy better life and health.....we do not getvmuch benefits from waiting that something will fall from the sky...or by taking pills in order to feel better......

And one thkng i forgot in previos post about genetics ...and how Peat use it maniacaly to prove that all talk about genetics is nonsense.....and here also u can see that reductionist thinking.....genetics can bechanged completely....but still their power is such strong STRONG....that u can do very little in one generation to make big changes...esspevially when it comes to physical characteristics which are very impactfull on health...those memories are very poverfulll and you can not say...well no problem we can correct that easily....

Yes you can change everything with changing environment.....but that process is sooo slow....it needs generations to pass....and with proper constant right stimulis you will change some features..u will get nowere if you try violently to change everything in a short period ...things do not function so easily in a real world scenario

In one generation from birth to 80 years old the physical changes are incredible.

I'm no longer getting involved with this,you need to take some time and work on your own health,these back and forth can be good fun but continuing this would be poor form.

 

[Wagner83]

I spoke to Gilbert Ling several times via email,I even have a signed copy of his latest book, a very wise, intelligent and patient man,he said the following to me in one interaction,"As the proverb goes, you are what you
eat".

Did you ever discuss with him what diet he thought was healthy?

 

[Drareg]

Did you ever discuss with him what diet he thought was healthy?

I never asked anything about diet,the upcoming documentary should include that as a question to all taking part.
I'm guessing Ling would see diet and environment as one and the same.

 

[kaybb]

Talk about context.
@tyw

Your reasons for being vague are vague themselves. i mean, who is seriously going to buy that??? Utter nonsense.
Sorry to say but I have found you to be somewhat of a usurper. You've done it on other forums as well.
I think you like to quietly come onto a forum, posts long tedious posts, be vague, somehow point out you are a smart software dev and vaguely showboat that you
know obscure and "vital" things about nutrition. I think you like when people believe you to be smart. Using phrases like "absolutely false," your tag of "Assert. De-complect. Falsify" shows your idea of self indulgence rather than strategic overcoming in problem solving such as "think, act, perceive," and you yourself speaking out of context shows that. I think in your quest to come across super intelligent you are also condescending. Those annoying icons you use to "politely" shoot a person's idea down and implicitly say "no stupid, this is the truth" never fail to appear in your tedious posts. That's the vibe I get from you. Others post quite a bit here and prolifically as well but I don't sense that from them. Whatever, my opinion. I've found no value in your posts other than being a contrarian. I personally don't care for detail when they have no practical value. @haidut has actually helped me. Some other forum members have actually helped me and it has nothing to do with the vague pondering and pontificating similar to your vague posts. It has to do with the direction and thinking of a man this forum is named after and for good reason. There's a lot wrong actually with points you make and your comprehension skills are not quite up to snuff (anybody reading this thread alone can see that) but I have ZERO desire to point them out to you. That's something you'll have to figure out on your own <--- see what I did there?

Ditto

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Ditto

Ad hominem.

mjh and you are not going through specific examples of what specific points you disagree with twy on and offering counter points. That's what SJW's do. They are afraid to have a real debate or discussion.

Nickola did at least offer some counter points but he still used pointless ad hominem towards Peat.

.

 

[Amazoniac]

This time I'll let uncle Will slap this discussion with the back of his hand and then hold the other cheek with the palm in an affective way to control the fury:
William Blake - The Marriage of Heaven and Hell
"Without Contraries is no progression. Attraction and Repulsion, Reason and Energy, Love and Hate, are necessary to Human existence."

It's good to have people that simplify and those that challenge the simplification, those that generalize and the ones that challenge the generalization.
Here's a contrary:
"Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity."
But being prudent is a way of acknowledging our ignorance and being cautious about the generalization that might have gone too far.
"You never know what is enough unless you know what is more than enough."
It's a process of layering and getting to the core of issues, but until you get there, it's usually turtuous road:
"Improvement makes strait roads, but the crooked roads without Improvement, are roads of Genius."

In my opinion, you don't know what the person is going through, perhaps being sarcastic is just a defensive behavior and the angel is going through a rough time. We don't know.
"Excess of sorrow laughs. Excess of joy weeps."
"As the catterpiller chooses the fairest leaves to lay her eggs, so the priest lays his curse on the fairest joys." - Repressing others' escape valves is lack of compassion (pboy would say it's rude).
"The cistern contains: the fountain overflows."

I'm not implying that this is the case with tyw, the point is that it would be better if we had more tolerance to insignificant things.
"Damn braces: Bless relaxes."
Sometimes those things catch you're attention and you miss the big picture:
"When thou seest an Eagle, thou seest a portion of Genius. lift up thy head!"

"The thankful reciever bears a plentiful harvest." - Instead, collecting just what you consider useful from everywhere.
"The crow wish'd every thing was black, the owl, that every thing was white."

West keeps bringing Eminem up for a good reason I guess, people criticize the person, not the arguments. I think that "to the person" is more intelligible than "to Eminem", though. Angelords trust "vibes", as pboy again would say, and they can't lose themselves in the post, the moment, owning it, while letting it go (go) if they cannot trust the person first.
tyw posts are refreshing and it's silly to pick sides based on who's posting, rather than the arguments, as if they didn't studied schultz's work. In fact we need more members such as him.

And finally, for @tyw and those that discourage contraries or don't recognize the value in them, here's something to consider:
"Listen to the fools reproach! it is a kingly title!"

Ps.: the bright side of having oily skin:
"He whose face gives no light, shall never become a star."

 

[Drareg]

This time I'll let uncle Will slap this discussion with the back of his hand and then hold the other cheek with the palm in an affective way to control the fury:
William Blake - The Marriage of Heaven and Hell
"Without Contraries is no progression. Attraction and Repulsion, Reason and Energy, Love and Hate, are necessary to Human existence."

It's good to have people that simplify and those that challenge the simplification, those that generalize and the ones that challenge the generalization.
Here's a contrary:
"Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity."
But being prudent is a way of acknowledging our ignorance and being cautious about the generalization that might have gone too far.
"You never know what is enough unless you know what is more than enough."
It's a process of layering and getting to the core of issues, but until you get there, it's usually turtuous road:
"Improvement makes strait roads, but the crooked roads without Improvement, are roads of Genius."

In my opinion, you don't know what the person is going through, perhaps being sarcastic is just a defensive behavior and the angel is going through a rough time. We don't know.
"Excess of sorrow laughs. Excess of joy weeps."
"As the catterpiller chooses the fairest leaves to lay her eggs, so the priest lays his curse on the fairest joys." - Repressing others' escape valves is lack of compassion (pboy would say it's rude).
"The cistern contains: the fountain overflows."

I'm not implying that this is the case with tyw, the point is that it would be better if we had more tolerance to insignificant things.
"Damn braces: Bless relaxes."
Sometimes those things catch you're attention and you miss the big picture:
"When thou seest an Eagle, thou seest a portion of Genius. lift up thy head!"

"The thankful reciever bears a plentiful harvest." - Instead, collecting just what you consider useful from everywhere.
"The crow wish'd every thing was black, the owl, that every thing was white."

West keeps bringing Eminem up for a good reason I guess, people criticize the person, not the arguments. I think that "to the person" is more intelligible than "to Eminem", though. Angelords trust "vibes", as pboy again would say, and they can't lose themselves in the post, the moment, owning it, while letting it go (go) if they cannot trust the person first.
tyw posts are refreshing and it's silly to pick sides based on who's posting, rather than the arguments, as if they didn't studied schultz's work. In fact we need more members such as him.

And finally, for @tyw and those that discourage contraries or don't recognize the value in them, here's something to consider:
"Listen to the fools reproach! it is a kingly title!"

Ps.: the bright side of having oily skin:
"He whose face gives no light, shall never become a star."

Keep in mind the majority of medical establishment is slowly killing people on a daily basis, should we view and respect them as contrarian?

Perhaps you don't understand the context yourself sir........

 

[Amazoniac]

Keep in mind the majority of medical establishment is slowly killing people on a daily basis, should we view and respect them as contrarian?

Perhaps you don't understand the context yourself sir........

For some reason I didn't receive the alert. Anyway, sorry, I'm a bit dizzy after the owl from Duolingo wing-slapped me.

How do we know what's positive and negative? Until we have a clear and simple explanations for things, it's usually complicated and debatable. And it's not by supressing the contrarian voices that you move on the right direction.
Your example also operates on the same principle: the establishment supressing contrarian voices.

I guess that this synthesizes well the discussion:
Analyzing living systems we often have to pull... | Ray Peat Forum

Some will argue that it's necessary to decompose a system in order to be able to observe and make some assertions. Others will say the the same fragment interacts with various parts when it's inserted in the whole and the output is going to be different, it depends on the context and so it's difficult to generalize.

Gerard?

 

[Amazoniac]

Getting out and meeting people,actually doing activities with humans or even animals to restore health,not looking for the "limitless" pill before acting.

The lack of social interaction today will not be healed by pills alone,be it LSD or DMT, people fear rejection and want to blame others for their ill health from the lack of courage to interact and try.
In some cases they are trying to convey a tortured genius as an excuse to be withdrawn.

Yeah and people in wheelchairs just need to jog more. Easy.

Drareg, one angelord just challenged your generalization, and it possibly made you think if you went too far with it, and what are the real applications of what you wrote. I guess that this is how things move on the right direction. If his opinion was suppressed because the majority before him agreed with you or for whatever reason, there would be no contraries, and you probably would've settled your opinion without thinking about it one more time. Still from those proverbs:
"Every thing possible to be believ'd is an image of truth."
And when we're not questioned, we often think that our beliefs are the absolute truth.

Throughout all of the educational system you have mentors, however, as you get close to higher degrees, those mentors start to disappear. It's the idea that the more knowledgeable you get, you become less and less subject to errors to the point of not requiring more inferences from other angels. Again, less contraries and one truth might prevail.

Anyway, just my opinion.

 

[Drareg]

Drareg, one angelord just challenged your generalization, and it possibly made you think if you went too far with it, and what are the real applications of what you wrote. I guess that this is how things move on the right direction. If his opinion was suppressed because the majority before him agreed with you or for whatever reason, there would be no contraries, and you probably would've settled your opinion without thinking about it one more time. Still from those proverbs:
"Every thing possible to be believ'd is an image of truth."
And when we're not questioned, we often think that our beliefs are the absolute truth.

Throughout all of the educational system you have mentors, however, as you get close to higher degrees, those mentors start to disappear. It's the idea that the more knowledgeable you get, you become less and less subject to errors to the point of not requiring more inferences from other angels. Again, less contraries and one truth might prevail.

Anyway, just my opinion.

Yes the dialogue is essential,this is when you uncover thinking processes by bouncing them off other people,opinions. Generalisations should be pushed out there with this context in mind,why have fear of going too far with it? The opposition should offer as to why,the real applications will be relevant in some cases but not all but this shouldn't stifle an opinion,we won't offer anything then for fear of being wrong,we are wrong most of the time,we could even be wrong about being wrong and this could be right or "Wright".
At the end of the day people some do want to stick to an open bias somebit for the sake of grasping Peats view hence the forum creation,always good to acknowledge this.

My point is what you have touched on further which is discernment. How do you know what you know?

William Blakes the "the chimney sweeper" is a good example of how on the surface words create a courteous and meaningful impression of the boys in the poem,the reality Blake was conveying was the enslavement and abuse of the children.
The problem maybe then is the claim of decomposing the systems to understand when it's not done,it's said its done but it isn't,this has the potential to be information bullying imo. Said behaviour sticks to topics and people they can pull said illusory veil over the mind,this isn't sincere opposing views and discussion.

Either way sorry if you felt I was somehow attacking you here,I was just interested in the Blake quotes,I thought they were aimed at all forum members.

 

[Amazoniac]

My point is what you have touched on further which is discernment. How do you know what you know?

William Blakes the "the chimney sweeper" is a good example of how on the surface words create a courteous and meaningful impression of the boys in the poem,the reality Blake was conveying was the enslavement and abuse of the children.
The problem maybe then is the claim of decomposing the systems to understand when it's not done,it's said its done but it isn't,this has the potential to be information bullying imo. Said behaviour sticks to topics and people they can pull said illusory veil over the mind,this isn't sincere opposing views and discussion.

Either way sorry if you felt I was somehow attacking you here,I was just interested in the Blake quotes,I thought they were aimed at all forum members.

I thought that you were addressing the whole post because you replied to the whole thing.
But anyway, I guess that this is one more reason why people have difficulty in agreeing with an argument made by someone that they don't trust, and so they shut down to everything that the person has to say and the priority of criticism is the person, or it's Eminem attack first. Words professed by someone that seems illegit or manipulative are not usually welcome, "not here, not me", even if those attributes are just a false perception. For example, I have already contacted a few members in a playful way but, depending on their state, some of them interpret it as if I was mocking them.
That's why West has to constantly remind us to address the discussion itself, and not those that are involved in it.

It's unnecessary in my opinion to put a disclaimer on every statement made in a discussion that it's subject to errors to prevent it from becoming too assertive and imperative, healthy people have healthy discussions. When people are actively supressing the other side of the story is usually because they have too much to lose in case they're wrong. It can happen to someone that represents a big corporation, a forum member that's too caught up in the moment, etc.
But I and some other members do it anyways because it brings some lightness to it: just one more opinion; or as marcar72 would put, my 2 cents.

I think that this is also why some members only write something when they're asked: it's much different if your crowd is willing to hear and receptive (unpopular blog is a good example) or they happen to be passing by and you stated something to them, something way more exhausting because you're challenged the whole time, the crowd is almost always seeking mistakes.
Reminded me of people watching someone parking: instead of helping, you just hold your breath and wait for it..

 

[kyle]

if you rely on table sugar problem is lack of nutrients...i know that people here like to talk that he said table sugar should be used temporarily but he really doesnt thinks so and he personallt has tons of table sugar a day...

So you assume to know what he "really thinks" and go by that?

 

[Jarman]

Which suggestions did you implement?

No more than 100g of sugar a day. I eat rice as the primary carb source. High calorie, high carb in the morning and progressively lower calorie through the day. I eat low-carb, somewhat low calorie in the evening around 7-8pm and avoid snacks at night. I also sleep early.

I agree with tyw that there's no reason to be really active / high-metabolic at night because I personally find it very stressful to the body. It's better to sleep!