Tyw. Said Something That Makes Alot Of Sense!

[Parsifal]

and other mechsnisms and approaches wich are just a bunch of simplistic reasoning that has nothing to do with function of the cells and homeostasis and balance.....

Oh I see, did not understand well what you said about milk and sugar in your previous post. Milk is a poison for me and I think to much fructose is toxic for the gut flora (was my experience).
Could not agree more with you, I also think that some of Ray's ideas are too simplistic and reductionist and that he seems to have this contrarian obsession sometimes that makes him becoming too"black and white".

On the other hand, I am not completely anarcho-primitivist, I think that some isolated molecules can be useful from times to times and it helped me, but I find a lot of people on this forum way too extreme and strange.

What would be your theories about maintaining/restoring the health of the organism? I guess the secret would be in biophysics?

That is a very interesting conversation, really enjoy it, thanks.

 

[BigYellowLemon]

@nikolabeacon

Yes I agree a lot of truth seems to be mixed with untruth.

 

[Drareg]

@Drareg Personally I think that lack of 18:2(4)-Cardiolipin (CL4) is the issue.

I say this because Cardiolipin is always co-located with structures that deal with energy production, and thus requires a balance of proper conformational flexibility, substrate exclusion behaviour (see immediate note after this sentence), and non-eager-peroxidisability. More double bonds allows for more flexibility, more exclusion behaviour, but more peroxidisability. 18:2 seems to be the lipid of choice in which this balance is met.

NOTE on "exclusion behaviour": this became apparent to me when researching DHA, and seeing this paper -- Docosahexaenoic acid affects cell signaling by altering lipid rafts. - PubMed - NCBI

One has to read the entire PDF for details, but in general, we see increasing cholesterol exclusion behaviour from lipid rafts with increasing unsaturation of raft-incorporated lipids.

I then think that this is a generalised behaviour, with more double bonds in general providing a "more polar / more repulsive" structure, that pushes non-polar compounds away from the unsaturated fatty acid. This behaviour is not seen in saturated fatty acids. Why I say this is an effect "in general", is because different unsaturated lipids seem to do this differently, with the single and dual planar molecules being the "most repulsive". DHA falls into the double planar pi-electron cloud double bond structure. (I won't get into details, Crawford et. al. provides for this info -- A quantum theory for the irreplaceable role of docosahexaenoic acid in neural cell signalling throughout evolution. - PubMed - NCBI)​

Also, it is clear from the analysis of actual symptomatic Barth Syndrome patients, that 18:1-cardiolipin is in excess, and 18:2-cardiolipin is deficient (this analysed "phospholipids in left and right ventricle, skeletal muscle, platelets, lymphoblasts, and fibroblasts ") -- Phospholipid abnormalities in children with Barth syndrome

This suggests that 18:1-cardiolipin does not provide the stable environment for tissue function. Contrasting this with non-symptomatic Barth mutations, whereby 18:2 levels are not affected, and 18:1-cardiolipin is low, leads to the conclusion that 18:2-cardiolipin is the necessary molecule.

I have not seen any proper trials of using Linoleic acid supplementation in patients. Only anecdotes which say "provide enough EFAs". I think that presence of sufficient 18:2 is needed for such patients, but that it is not sufficient to deal with the disease, since it is borne of protein interaction defects that cannot be fixed by simply flooding the appropriate cells with 18:2.

Adding dietary Linoleic acid to rats preserves 18:2-cardiolipin, but again, these are rats, which are much more eager with PUFA incorporation into any structures, and are thus not comparable to humans -- Dietary linoleate preserves cardiolipin and attenuates mitochondrial dysfunction in the failing rat heart | Cardiovascular Research | Oxford Academic

I do not have a solution to Barth Syndrome, but I think it is fair to say that the symptoms are a result of 18:2-cardiolipin depletion below normal levels.

....

All it says about the methods is "Cardiac tissue was excised from whole hearts explanted for transplantation". No explanation of the methods used to extract.
They then freeze it to -80c.
I was looking for the original research on humans for establishing 18:2 as "essential",it's this specific research I wanted to look at if you have access,I can't find it.

The study you show tells me Barths patients had some level of 18:2 but still had issues,the other patients all had heart issues with more 18:2.
The Barth patients had lower 18:1 and 18:2 compared to non Barths patients,I wouldn't say they had high 18:1 compared to other patients,the patients with "Barth like symptoms",had higher 18:2 and lower 18:1 yet still had symptoms,however both Barths and "Barths like" patients had lower 18:1 and 18:2 cardiolipin levels in this study.

The below quote from the study you posted mentions "Barth like"symptoms with more 18:2.

"In contrast, normal levels of tetralinoleoyl-cardiolipin were found in children without TAZmutations, who had either isolated cardiomyopathy or BTHS-like disease (Table 3). "

I still don't see why a lack of 18:2 in the heart is the a cause of issues,I get researches are saying this but it's built on a presumption that 18:2 is the main cardiolipin in the heart. Why cant we say the heart is dumping the 18:2 to try recover or is running out cardiolipin either way. There is some simple research that could be done to test all of this,research more to the point.

We don't need to flood the cells with linoleic acid to see an effect in Barths patients if 18:2 is "essential" they will still surely see some effect from the addition of the "essential".
The study on "skin" fibroblast had nothing to loose adding 18:1 to fibroblasts,this should be done but they presumed 18:2 is what's needed.

Protein interaction defects is caused by something that could possibly be responsible for the draining of cardiolipin we are seeing?
I'm sure the researchers and doctors have checked thyroid levels in Barths patients and more importantly mothers,it's impossible for them not to when we look at the signs. Hormones all round are checked I'm sure.

The study you quoted on rats mentions a very salient hamster study,it's not the PUFA fed hamsters to look at in this study,it's the controls and high saturated fat,the high saturated fat live longer than the controls,both controls and high saturated fat live longer than the high PUFA. We can go each way on this.

 

[Drareg]

@Parsifal Yeah right. Just need to sit near stream prefferably some very quiet place....and just try to catch with eyes little vortices that form ...and just let your thoughts do the work....after 20 mins or so you will literally forgot abot time.....similar like when you go to bed at night...just relax and do not supress any thought that come up on the surfface....

And the thjng about negative ions is right....but it depends on health of the river flow....if all trees are cut near around the banks of river than water lose it "levitative force" which is responsiblefod making negative ions.....or if river banks are of concrete or lterec with somd other stupid human interventions.....river stream becomes deenergized and loses its upward or levitative force that.....when river is heakthy as a mountaint fast stream it has greenesh blue fluorescent color....its from those levitative forces...or dynagen energies....read Viktor writting about this.....

And about tons of Milk and sugar.....i wanted to say that its nonsense veryy very big nonsense in Peat hypotheses.....things do not work like that.....he


And btw....If all those people drank that much milk and sugar they would never reach what they reached.....it will supress your metabolism big time and no wonder then that you need to take thyroid , proge, etc......those two can work only for a growing baby ...i allready concluded that several months ago...and its not just empty talk here....i tried not just on me with several methods to chech what happens when you drink milk and sugar in such quantities after couple of weeks...There is also one forum member that i came across while reading forum who came to almost same conclusions as i am....search just posts by guest member Derek.....

I now finally see that Peat is so wrong in his starting hypotheses that longevity( or in his interpretatioms imortality) is achieved with copying metabolism of a growing organism....it is so wrong thag i can not belive thagt person with PhD in biology can think in such a wrong way.....but when you hink more there a lot of other scientist and phd, that talk worse nonsense than him..... so its no a big wonder...he is in the firdt place have a lot of hate oriented approach " to public health medias" tha he actually have rather contrarian vibe than findimg what works....probably he has lot of hate because he suffered from two cancers by dental x rays......he is very well versed to put things together and it will look impresive and true...but when you go back to chechk his starting hypothesis and basis of his theories and that he used tons of studies on mice, rats, and other animals with ckmpletely different mitochondrias and phydiology and by the way which donot have not as near big brain as....ours....and other mechsnisms and approaches wich are just a bunch of simplistic reasoning that has nothing to do with function of the cells and homeostasis and balance.....

I wonder what would Gilbert Ling said about Peat diet recommendations...about Ca and sugar.....probably he would laugh at them...

And





Yeah there is lot of nonsense said about Nikola Tesla.....and many things said about him are crazy and exaggerated ....I agree that we should be cautious with taking that information for granted....

But that does not mean that we should see it as a some conspiracy theories....very often they put real things and inventions in a same crap as many other conspiracy theories....to confuse people.....

Conspiracy theories and debunking are very actual today for confusing people.

Peat has a contrarian vibe, what's your vibe would you say?

Start a thread on your theory here for the sake of discussion.

 

[nikolabeacon]

Oh I see, did not understand well what you said about milk and sugar in your previous post. Milk is a poison for me and I think to much fructose is toxic for the gut flora (was my experience).
Could not agree more with you, I also think that some of Ray's ideas are too simplistic and reductionist and that he seems to have this contrarian obsession sometimes that makes him becoming too"black and white".

On the other hand, I am not completely anarcho-primitivist, I think that some isolated molecules can be useful from times to times and it helped me, but I find a lot of people on this forum way too extreme and strange.

What would be your theories about maintaining/restoring the health of the organism? I guess the secret would be in biophysics?

That is a very interesting conversation, really enjoy it, thanks.

I can' t rely on millions of conflicting published studies and some empty theories to make my own wrong theories.

I can tell you my experiences from my readings of books, experiences from people here and other diet forums, my case, my gf and family members who were willing to try some strange eating habits...and from the observations of diet in some regions of montenegro and serbia where people are extremely healthy and have many thinggx in common...( mainly low fat starch diet with littld meat, milk and egg, some fruits and cooked veggies)... i think okinawans before 1950 ate similar diet btw.. @tyw has some great insights in my opinion....people just consider Peat as God and see tyw as a contrarian but in fact true contrarian is Peat imo

Ketosis in my opinion is very bad long term and can be used only terapeuticaly for some speciffic serious cases and short therm..so thats out.....so energy in mynopnion should be mainly from good starch sources....i experimented wiyh this a lot a nd thouhht at one moment do ditch the starch r because of sleep and ocassional pain in teeth..but i found that Ca was problem.....see ex below and in my short post in one thread

For ex milk for me was not s problem for digestion even in galllons.....but i didnf want to end in a wrong way and neglect my assumptions and many bsd evidences about it....i summed in short what average infividual should expect from pro metsbolic diet here 1-year On Ray Peat/Pro-metabolic Diet With Some Bad Results



Milk if tolerable is only maybe valuable for uping Ca to 800-1000 mg up to 2 cups max or 2-3 ounces of cheese. If not no prob at all....every Ca supplementstion from shells and other supps is unnecessary and dangerous...

I would first find starch sources which do not cause you digestion issues....but here you should also wait for couple of days when introducing starch sources for intestines to adapt....?but if you supressed your thyrod severly then it should take more time for healing the digestion strenght......( options are, white short grain rice, white unenriched wheat flour and homemade bread from it if you cant find good one without crap in it ....gluten is myth in my opinion.....or some better pasta from supermarket without additives., and potatoes)...do not overdo fat ...max 25 % of cal in my opinion pregerrably 15-20 in my opinion...butter is better than free oils such as coconut or kernel seed oil

After that i would focus on Mg and Ca ratio and look for 1:1 or 1:2 mg:ca....but it is not thst important as avoiding every food which will make problems in the intestines...avoid gelatin like a plague....maybe have ocassional bone broth if you tolerate it.....use salt freely....and add iodizied salt to your starch together with just little sat. Fat...


I would Limit sugar to around 100 grams or so...watch for hair shedding....if it falls drop sugar intake...
Ha

For mg u have meat, fish cooked swiss chard, spinach, and other green leaf veggies ( not cruciferous), 1-2 cups of coffee and little chocholate

Have regularrly eggs meat, or fish little butter, ....thats in short but i find myself strange when i need to tell you whst to eat because i do not know your overall situation.....

Of course that you should use medication for acute healyh problems and when it is needed but k am not a doctor to give such advices o forum.....but to rehularly and daily rely on it constantly for me is a very strsnge and weird and very stresfull way to live a life....but medication is following

I would focus on something that really interest you, iv you can afford it...whdnever it is... i would try to spend outdoors at least 2-3 hours a day...at least........prefferably also to expose your torso whenever its tolerable for about 30 min or more.....to the sun....posture is incresdibly important, do not overdo breathing ex and do not stress yourself about it same ss with measuring pulse and temps...its useless....and i find ig very wrong to push yourself in mass if you are naturally introvert...in todays world everyone is strivinb to be extrovert stubbornly but its wrong....there is nothing wrong in being introvert its totally natural and having just a few good true friends girlfriend and joy with family members.....its bad if you force yourself to be in mass if it is bothering you....go earlier to bed as much as u can but do nof force it if it is stressing you....of course do not exchange day for night thats terrible for health....i would avoid bingeing of every kind, (masturbation, music, ..tv, net..)

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

I have a period 3 years ago when I was reading gastronomy books and working in restaurants and learning and experimenting with recipes from various books..and reading masters of gastronomy..i was reading day and night....and after couple of months....I started to have dreams during the day naps in which i would hear a voice that speaks to me recipes and combinations of foods i never saw anywhere and they were colourfully depicted with details....same happened when I was on Universitty of Architrcture making models and reading day and night for months....matter was so interesting and i would litterallyy forgot to eat and sleep....and again started to have that kind of real pictured dreams and voices in my head...

Mendeleev saw periodic table of elements in a vivid dream during his day nap. Paco de Lucia and many other free musivians....composed some of their musical pieces like that

“My brain is only a receiver, in the Universe there is a core from which we obtain knowledge, strength and inspiration. I have not penetrated into the secrets of this core, but I know that it exists.” ― Nikola Tesla​

89:* Medical and Surgical Reporter, vol. xxxii. p. 195. “Those who have professed to teach their fellow-mortals new truths concerning immortality, have based their authority on direct divine inspiration. Numa, Zoroaster, Mohammed, Swedenborg, all claimed communication with higher spirits; they were what the Greeks called entheast—‘immersed in God’—a striking word which Byron introduced into our tongue.” Carpenter describes the condition as an automatic action of the brain. The inspired ideas arise in the mind suddenly, spontaneously, but very vividly, at some time when thinking of some other topic. Francis Galton defines genius as “the automatic activity of the mind, as distinguished from the effort of the will,—the ideas coming by inspiration.” This action, says the editor of the Reporter, is largely favored by a condition approaching mental disorder—at least by one remote from the ordinary working day habits of thought. Fasting, prolonged intense mental action, great and unusual commotion of mind, will produce it; and, indeed, these extraordinary displays seem to have been so preceded. Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, all began their careers by fasting, and visions of devils followed by angels. The candidates in the Eleusinian Mysteries also saw visions and apparitions, while engaged in the mystic orgies. We do not, however, accept the materialistic view of this subject. The cases are entheastic; and although hysteria and other disorders of the sympathetic system sometimes imitate the phenomena, we believe with Plato and Plotinus, that the higher faculty, intellect or intuition as we prefer to call it, the noetic part of our nature, is the faculty actually at work. “By reflection, p. 90 self-knowledge, and intellectual discipline, the soul can be raised to the vision of eternal truth, goodness, and beauty—that is, to the vision of God.” This is the epopteia.—A. W.​

Well Tesla and Schauberher are considered that both of them were Crazy.....Schauberger hallucinated near a wild streams ....and saw pictures in water flow.....and he explained it as a dissolving your own conssciousness and thinkimg in a water " flow".....hours would pass withou noticing it....

.I tried it and it is a real real thing...not broscience...and i am doing it frequently now ....it is so realaxing and u literally clear your head after 2-3 hours....you just need to find peacdfull place somewhere near wild water stream...and sit there and watch in the water trying to catch little vortices that forms in stream.....its like dreaming....and you feel do energized after this......


Someone will laugh at this but i do not care....i experienced it

52:† Jacob Bryant says: “All fountains were esteemed sacred, but especially those which had any preternatural quality and abounded with exhalations. It was an universal notion that a divine energy proceeded from these effluvia; and that the persons who resided in their vicinity were gifted with a prophetic quality. . . . The Ammonians styled such fountains Ain Omphé, or fountains of the oracle; ομφη, omphé, signifying ‘the voice of God.’ These terms the Greeks contracted to Νυμφη, numphe, a nymph.”—Ancient Mythology, vol. i. p. 276.​

in a recent post I talked about how water is a dipolar electric conductor perhaps the negative ions caused by the stream flowing has some sort of conductive effect. Plasma is made of negative ions.

Perhaps flowing water creates a weak plasma and spending hours near a stream or fountain would saturate the body with said ions eventually leading to...what?

 

[AJC]

@nikolabeacon any specific resources on or by Schauberger that you like? Or anything along these lines?

 

[Mito]

I would Limit sugar to around 100 grams or so...watch for hair shedding....if it falls drop sugar intake...

What exactly do you mean by sugar? Glucose, Fructose, Sucrose, Lactose?

 

[nikolabeacon]

Peat has a contrarian vibe, what's your vibe would you say?

Start a thread on your theory here for the sake of discussion.

And to answer to your question

@Drareg I have nothing against Raymond Peat ..he has some interesting phylosophic thinking about position of human beings in general in society and nature....but his other notions and autiistic character..and theories about nutrition....no way....and reading him carefully you will clearly see what I am talking about...because its most important if yoh want to validate his theories from the start....and even his ideas in books are only some isolated autistic atempt to put bunch of taken theories from many other scientist and put that togheter in a good sounding way just for sake of presenting his autistic creative World....there is nothing new in his books...and he is also an example of victim of conspiracy theories which is also characteristic for autists...and mainly autist are falling on that type of talk and validating his theories....as a some very big revolution snd discovery.....

Look . You need to study him as a person carefully besides his very questionable "scientiffic studies and research" If you read very carefully all that he written and his articles and audio interviews and some information in books ......but you need to be verry very carefully about details....esspecially in his articles...besides many oversimplistic reasoning and absolutely wrong hypotheses and starting theories...pay carefully attention on..that obssesion to find something speciall just for sake of contrariansm and a lot of hate for public mrdia healt...( esspecially some quotes about dentists and health propaganda)...I explainec how that hate originated in him...he suffered from two cancers by dental x rays, sreious bowel problems which resulted in losing of teeth and terrible migraines( all from too much Ca, fruit, gelatin....strory about wheat germ is absolute bunk) and who knows how many other ilneses he experienced during life....he is traumatised from all that....and its a cause of some kind of a contrarian and isolated brain defect called autistic behaviour....and autistic person are recognised by character to neglect everythjng that does not mach with their little world inside their isolated thinking


And regarding his starting hypotheses about longevity and metabolic rate...and bunch of dumb and wrong studies von mice, rats and other animals studies he used to back up his theories ..well i wrote several time about that..
Sugar Or Starch? Perfect Health Diet Confusion?

What's Wrong With Overstimulating Metabolism?



..you can not strive to copy metabolism ov young growing organism or baby......its ABSOLUTELLY WRONG......not only because of fact that it is growing which has nothing to do with anti ageing but because we dont have a slight clue what are all mechanism involved in growth and youth.....and really I would like to know for ex Gilbert Ling opinon on his dietary recommendations. (about Ca and sugar).and about his theories of minerals and hormones......but for me its clear what would be an answer...( one big laughter)....

And regarding diet i explained in short everything....and just to know every single longevity dietbon planet has those things in common( starch, low fat, little or no meat and milk, some veggies for minerals and little sugars ) ...japanese traditional diet, okinawan, sothern european and mediteranean, chinese traditional diet, and many others.....real propaganda and many other speciffic diets ate wrong...and are there o confuse people and make rocket science from it....real nutrition and health is cheap....and much more energy should be spent on changing environmental factors and activities in !ife....saving of water, forests, education, , biophysics, bioneregies, as Schauberger said..(...and here also is one big big minus for peat theoriies which wlukd destroy climate and forests on planet with all those milk and fruit which is almost useless for human health..).......and its no wonder because truth is always simple and passes directly through a hearth....not rocket science and somethingbwhich is unsusrainable.......not on magical substances which are nonsense for the organism...approach to health must be holstic fully...

@nikolabeacon any specific resources on or by Schauberger that you like? Or anything along these lines?

Well you can find lot of his writtings and papers by other people who wrote books about him on english.....but there are much greater literature in german( which i do not understand) and russian....same as with Tesla ..and as i sad above....many things are exaggerated and crazy...but many things are real....but as i explained it is all mixed up for confusion....but schauberger is much more interesting than Tesla and much more realistic and correct @pimpnamedraypeat

What exactly do you mean by sugar? Glucose, Fructose, Sucrose, Lactose?

Sucrose ....( fructose part of course)

 

[Mito]

Sucrose ....( fructose part of course)

Okay so sucrose is 50% glucose and 50% fructose. So you recommend limiting sucrose to 100g/day. In other words 50g fructose and 50g glucose. But I think you also advocate starch which is more glucose? So are you actually recommending limiting fructose to 50g/day? What's the difference if you get the glucose with fructose unless it's actually the fructose that you want to limit?

 

[nikolabeacon]

Okay so sucrose is 50% glucose and 50% fructose. So you recommend limiting sucrose to 100g/day. In other words 50g fructose and 50g glucose. But I think you also advocate starch which is more glucose? So are you actually recommending limiting fructose to 50g/day? What's the difference if you get the glucose with fructose unless it's actually the fructose that you want to limit?

Little bit of fructise is good to have to use glucose efficiently...and to help replenish liver glicogen....and to help wiyh using phosphorus and excreting it .....but you only need small amounts to kick that effect....if you are healthy you can utilitize more fructose but it causes other problems over time.....it will make zinc and manganese deficiences along with B vit deficiencies....and for people with naturally weaker livers it can cause serious problems....and the thjng which peat spoke about that fructose is good because it does not require insulin is actualy very bad combo....you want huge insulin spike to process sugar( he talk nonsense that its bad because it stimulates glycogen and fat storage ..nonsense)...to save zinc which will be used in pancreas....frutarians are defficient in Zinc because of that....and properly digested starch have many benefits....it will produce vit K2 in the intestines, and help with syhedizing other nutrients and minerals and proper usiing of them.....talk that starch feed endotoxin is funny because sugar and gelatin for exemple do it much more effectively...milk also....besides many other things.....and if someone cant digest starch of any kind that only means that his digedtiin is very weak from supressed metabolism and thyroid function....so u see why there is such a need for thyroid medication, progesterone and other nutrients ..

 

[mirc12354]

Little bit of fructise is good to have to use glucose efficiently...and to help replenish liver glicogen....and to help wiyh using phosphorus and excreting it .....but you only need small amounts to kick that effect....if you are healthy you can utilitize more fructose but it causes other problems over time.....it will make zinc and manganese deficiences along with B vit deficiencies....and for people with naturally weaker livers it can cause serious problems....and the thjng which peat spoke about that fructose is good because it does not require insulin is actualy very bad combo....you want huge insulin spike to process sugar( he talk nonsense that its bad because it stimulates glycogen and fat storage ..nonsense)...to save zinc which will be used in pancreas....frutarians are defficient in Zinc because of that....and properly digested starch have many benefits....it will produce vit K2 in the intestines, and help with syhedizing other nutrients and minerals and proper usiing of them.....talk that starch feed endotoxin is funny because sugar and gelatin for exemple do it much more effectively...milk also....besides many other things.....and if someone cant digest starch of any kind that only means that his digedtiin is very weak from supressed metabolism and thyroid function....so u see why there is such a need for thyroid medication, progesterone and other nutrients ..

You are sure they aren't deficient because of the lack of zinc in their diet?

 

[Mito]

...gluten is myth in my opinion..

What do you mean by this? Do you think gluten is fine for most (non-celiac) people? It's seems that all of the non-main stream diets like Perfect Health Diet, Bulletproof Diet, Primal Diet, various other Paleo diets and even Ray Peat's recommendations all seem to agree about avoiding gluten for optimal health.

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

What do you mean by this? Do you think gluten is fine for most (non-celiac) people? It's seems that all of the non-main street diets like Perfect Health Diet, Bulletproof Diet, Primal Diet, various other Paleo diets and even Ray Peat's recommendations all seem to agree about avoiding gluten for optimal health.

I used to be able to eat bread with no symptoms or brain fog just fine before i started suffering from hypothyroidism and then ibs

 

[nikolabeacon]

You are sure they aren't deficient because of the lack of zinc in their diet?

Yes 100% sure...for some people it just take longer period.... all people who eat too much fruit or sugar will become Zinc deficient and manganese, andB vitamins deficient......

What do you mean by this? Do you think gluten is fine for most (non-celiac) people? It's seems that all of the non-main street diets like Perfect Health Diet, Bulletproof Diet, Primal Diet, various other Paleo diets and even Ray Peat's recommendations all seem to agree about avoiding gluten for optimal health.

All of those diets are bunk in my opinion.....Its very similar to lactose intolerance....not the same.......but many people especially in Europe do not have that problem at all...also in other parts of the world....as I said every single unability to digest starch means very bad digestion snd thyroid health....gluten can be problematic for people with some speciffic problems it is true as with many other foods...but doesnt mean that Gluten shoud be svoided like a plague...try and see without convinving yourself that it will ruin your bowels...its nonsense...i have zero gas with tons of flour and potatoes and perfect stool......but many avoid it all the time and fix in their heads that it is bad ...it will feed bacteria....if you avoided it for years like a plague you should try it for several days to adapt to it...some people try it experience little brain fog or digestion issues and conclude its bad....i csn eat 500 g white flour in form of homemade bread, pasta and other lower fat thjngs.... a day without any problems....

 

[paymanz]

Fructose actually has a positive effect on mineral balance.

Except for phosphorus.

 

[nikolabeacon]

Fructose actually has a positive effect on mineral balance.

Except for phosphorus.

It have but just in reasonable quantities...100-150 g of sucrose( 50-80 grams of fructose)....not "more is better" as @tyw said wisely....othervise expect zinc , manganese, vitamin B deficiencies and problems with copper....around 100 sugar a day in sweet things and dessert is reasonable and match with appetite for it...so u see why every diets exclude one or another and make big problems....

And as i said i can not imagine healthy individual who crave to eat sugary (up to 500 g a day) things all the time...it means that your sugar levels are messes up and thst you have some dissbalances in nutrients...as i explained here https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/fructose-upper-limit.15716/page-2#post-214533

And from my expirience usually people with hormonal problems have those unsatisfying need for sugary things...mainly estrogenic symptoms

 

[Drareg]

And to answer to your question

@Drareg I have nothing against Raymond Peat ..he has some interesting phylosophic thinking about position of human beings in general in society and nature....but his other notions and autiistic character..and theories about nutrition....no way....and reading him carefully you will clearly see what I am talking about...because its most important if yoh want to validate his theories from the start....and even his ideas in books are only some isolated autistic atempt to put bunch of taken theories from many other scientist and put that togheter in a good sounding way just for sake of presenting his autistic creative World....there is nothing new in his books...and he is also an example of victim of conspiracy theories which is also characteristic for autists...and mainly autist are falling on that type of talk and validating his theories....as a some very big revolution snd discovery.....

Look . You need to study him as a person carefully besides his very questionable "scientiffic studies and research" If you read very carefully all that he written and his articles and audio interviews and some information in books ......but you need to be verry very carefully about details....esspecially in his articles...besides many oversimplistic reasoning and absolutely wrong hypotheses and starting theories...pay carefully attention on..that obssesion to find something speciall just for sake of contrariansm and a lot of hate for public mrdia healt...( esspecially some quotes about dentists and health propaganda)...I explainec how that hate originated in him...he suffered from two cancers by dental x rays, sreious bowel problems which resulted in losing of teeth and terrible migraines( all from too much Ca, fruit, gelatin....strory about wheat germ is absolute bunk) and who knows how many other ilneses he experienced during life....he is traumatised from all that....and its a cause of some kind of a contrarian and isolated brain defect called autistic behaviour....and autistic person are recognised by character to neglect everythjng that does not mach with their little world inside their isolated thinking


And regarding his starting hypotheses about longevity and metabolic rate...and bunch of dumb and wrong studies von mice, rats and other animals studies he used to back up his theories ..well i wrote several time about that..
Sugar Or Starch? Perfect Health Diet Confusion?

What's Wrong With Overstimulating Metabolism?



..you can not strive to copy metabolism ov young growing organism or baby......its ABSOLUTELLY WRONG......not only because of fact that it is growing which has nothing to do with anti ageing but because we dont have a slight clue what are all mechanism involved in growth and youth.....and really I would like to know for ex Gilbert Ling opinon on his dietary recommendations. (about Ca and sugar).and about his theories of minerals and hormones......but for me its clear what would be an answer...( one big laughter)....

And regarding diet i explained in short everything....and just to know every single longevity dietbon planet has those things in common( starch, low fat, little or no meat and milk, some veggies for minerals and little sugars ) ...japanese traditional diet, okinawan, sothern european and mediteranean, chinese traditional diet, and many others.....real propaganda and many other speciffic diets ate wrong...and are there o confuse people and make rocket science from it....real nutrition and health is cheap....and much more energy should be spent on changing environmental factors and activities in !ife....saving of water, forests, education, , biophysics, bioneregies, as Schauberger said..(...and here also is one big big minus for peat theoriies which wlukd destroy climate and forests on planet with all those milk and fruit which is almost useless for human health..).......and its no wonder because truth is always simple and passes directly through a hearth....not rocket science and somethingbwhich is unsusrainable.......not on magical substances which are nonsense for the organism...approach to health must be holstic fully...


Well you can find lot of his writtings and papers by other people who wrote books about him on english.....but there are much greater literature in german( which i do not understand) and russian....same as with Tesla ..and as i sad above....many things are exaggerated and crazy...but many things are real....but as i explained it is all mixed up for confusion....but schauberger is much more interesting than Tesla and much more realistic and correct @pimpnamedraypeat


Sucrose ....( fructose part of course)

Everyone including Tesla took ideas from other people and strung them together to experiment further,there is a reason Peat mentions many people like Ling,szent georgi etc, he cites other people researchers for similar reasons.
Any human being that has done anything inventive has used the works of others to achieve.
His views highlight potential avenues for further experiment that are ignored,just like the simple experiments that could be done to categorically prove 18:2 being the main cardiolipin instead of having to veer into quantum physics and geometry to prove it.

I clearly read his work and he does not have any rigid static theory that would not evolve with solid evidence to the contrary,we have examples of Peat doing this,this is why people will trust what he is saying because of years of being screwed by doctors.
His book "mind and tissue" "Russian research perspectives on the human brain", this is a book about other people's ideas and what it might mean from Peats perspectives but also the researchers.
Just in case you don't get it,This is Peat saying I'm taking other people's ideas and putting them in a book,just like tesla would cite others too.

Your response is a strawman and ad hominem which leads to the obvious question, why bother with "raypeatforum.com" ?
Your responses to others about diet is similar vagueness to others claiming to refute Peat with bizarre and obvious strawmans. You like others then throw in tidbits you gleaned from Peat like gluten and grains being processed better with healthy thyroid function,the claim is,no we came to that conclusion ourselves because we are not dogmatic or you got it elsewhere! keep in mind Peat never claimed to own and create this information lol!
It's the same with links you provided,its incoherent vague and verbose tidbits from others.

Your associating with Tesla to try sound intelligent,trying to detach yourself form labels by labelling others doesn't work,using conspiracy theorist for example.

Your projecting like a wildman and its Freudian slips galore!

 

[paymanz]

Ray doesn't contradict any mainsatream ideas by default,he doesn't accept them by default too.

For example vitamin d, mainstream medical system becomes more and more interested in this vitamin everyday, and ray is just the same.

I think there is more examples for this too.

 

[Drareg]

Ray doesn't contradict any mainsatream ideas by default,he doesn't accept them by default too.

For example vitamin d, mainstream medical system becomes more and more interested in this vitamin everyday, and ray is just the same.

I think there is more examples for this too.

Exactly,the agendas on here are wide and varied.
"One of the many quotes on PUFA for example,keep in mind the foods he mentions that may help in diet-

"Polyunsaturated fats are nearly ubiquitous, but if they are "essential nutrients," in the way vitamin A, or lysine, is essential, that has not been demonstrated. It seems clear that they are essential for cancer, and that they have other properties which cause them to be toxic at certain levels. It might be time to direct research toward determining whether there is a threshold of toxicity, or whether they are, like ionizing radiation, toxic at any level."