Try Grapefruit Juice

[Amazoniac]

OP you are cherry picking here, to show that alkalinity is a thing by increasing uptake of citrate, but it isn't a thing for it is highly difficult to change your state through diet because of multiple backup systems tightly regulating blood and cell pH.
And Dr Peat said the healthy metabolism of cells to be slightly on the acidic side because of the stream of carbonic acid, else when under stress, shifting to alkaline , they output the energy inefficient lactic acid which inhibit respiration and this alkalinity can cause cancer.

He must be picking grapefruits, not cherries.

How do you explain the typical positive response to baking soda? If you believe it's the edemium (Na), why common salt doesn't produce the same desirable effects?

Crapon dioxide is volatile, when generated in large amounts in complete cellular respiration, the body can dispose it without difficulty. In case the metabolic rate is increased, the elimination will follow. This prevents acidification:
- "The Primary Sources Of Acidity In The Diet Are Sulfur-containing AAs, Salt, And Phosphoric Acid"

It's helpful that they analyze the content of organic acids regardless if they're ionized or not, but the person has to consider the pH of the juice to know the behavior of a molecule in question. The organic acid will ionize as the alkalinity of the liquid increases, needing a pairing ion for neutrality; a likely element in fruit juices is cardiarrestium (K). If a high content is reported for a given organic acid but the pH of the the liquid is low, so will be the degree of ionization and the body will have to deal with this acid load when dissociation occurs at physiological pH.

However, I wouldn't get too caught up in alkalinization because every component that fails can make a system suffer. For example, the synthesis and integrity of red blood cells may be compromised by insufficiency of sulfur amino acids, which would affect acid-base balance for worse. It's possible for something that's associated with acidification to be what normalizes it.

But increasing citrate is going to make you lose calcium which is regulating parathyroid hormone and leaving that unregulated is actually a factor in forming oxalate stones in the kidney. So the whole thing of potassium citrate pills is not making sense.

- "potassium citrate" urinary calcium | Google Search

 

[PeskyPeater]

I don't think the PRAL is an issue. And with diet, the food acid-base degree is also not an issue to worry about when the calcium and electrolyte intake is oke.
When you take supplements in isolation like enough baking soda that increase carbonic acid, you will support the acidic metabolism of the cell and healthy respiration, extending endurance, postponing shifting toward lactic acid and exhaustion.
But taking citrate supplements are going to interfere with calcium placement and is going towards forming metabolites that increase fatty acid oxidation. But we want to support sugar metabolism to prevent possible rises in inflammatory markers and chances of cancer.

 

[PeskyPeater]

As the narinenin and herperedin are going to be metabolised in the gut to CO2 anyhow, why don't we hack this grape juice with even more carbonic acid by adding baking soda so the potassium citrate will react with the bicarbonate ? The CO2 can absorb through the stomach.

 

[YourUniverse]

@Amarsh213 do you have any experience with baking soda as far as maxing alkalinity?

 

[PaRa]

Dr. Peat has pointed out that grapefruit contains some ingredients that increase estrogen and jam up the liver's ability to detoxify, so I avoid all grapefruit products. There are many drugs that have side effects when taken with grapefruit, so I think this view is validated and I would never consume it.

Grapefruit, Flavonoids, Detoxification, and Estrogen – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

For example, the flavonoids, naringenin, quercetin and kaempherol (kaempherol is an antioxidant, a phytoestrogen, and a mutagen) modify the metabolism of estradiol, causing increased bioavailability of both estrone and estradiol. (W. Schubert, et al., “Inhibition of 17-beta-estradiol metabolism by grapefruit juice in ovariectomized women,” Maturitas (Ireland) 30(2-3), 155-163, 1994.) -Ray Peat, PhD

Yup it‘s a strong CYP450 inhibitor
it‘s well known if you are taking things like abx, statins, etc etc etc that you must Not have grapefruit juice because or can cause dru toxicity

OJ is ok and doesnt Cause these issues

 

[Amazoniac]

I don't think the PRAL is an issue. And with diet, the food acid-base degree is also not an issue to worry about when the calcium and electrolyte intake is oke.
When you take supplements in isolation like enough baking soda that increase carbonic acid, you will support the acidic metabolism of the cell and healthy respiration, extending endurance, postponing shifting toward lactic acid and exhaustion.
But taking citrate supplements are going to interfere with calcium placement and is going towards forming metabolites that increase fatty acid oxidation. But we want to support sugar metabolism to prevent possible rises in inflammatory markers and chances of cancer.

The concern would be on defining the acceptable, some persons need additional support to get the state under control.

What's 'potential' about renal acid load is the estimation that isn't accurate, I wouldn't rely on it for food choices, but renal acid load attenuation from alkalinizing foods have been measured, they does have such effect.

The virate is rapidly consumed in the body, will reach tissues from liver as crapon dioxide/hydrocraponate (HCO3). You may be underestimating how much of it can be derived from diet.

As the narinenin and herperedin are going to be metabolised in the gut to CO2 anyhow, why don't we hack this grape juice with even more carbonic acid by adding baking soda so the potassium citrate will react with the bicarbonate ? The CO2 can absorb through the stomach.

From the flabonoids content in juices that you provided, it should be less than 600 mg/L. Due to solubility, most of them will be complexed with sugars, the content may halve if you discount this. I can't recall their fate, but a significant portion of naringenin is detected in urine. Also, only a fraction of the molecule could yield crapon dioxide. Altogether, it doesn't seem comparable to what's obtained from metabolizing the other components present in much larger amounts.

Beverage craponation is going to have a different effect than adding hydrocraponate salts.

 

[PeskyPeater]

Thanks for your reaction.

The concern would be on defining the acceptable, some persons need additional support to get the state under control.

What's 'potential' about renal acid load is the estimation that isn't accurate, I wouldn't rely on it for food choices, but renal acid load attenuation from alkalinizing foods have been measured, they does have such effect.

I can imagine hypothyroidism can use support from alkaline foods.

The virate is rapidly consumed in the body, will reach tissues from liver as crapon dioxide/hydrocraponate (HCO3). You may be underestimating how much of it can be derived from diet.

virate?

From the flabonoids content in juices that you provided, it should be less than 600 mg/L. Due to solubility, most of them will be complexed with sugars, the content may halve if you discount this. I can't recall their fate, but a significant portion of naringenin is detected in urine. Also, only a fraction of the molecule could yield crapon dioxide. Altogether, it doesn't seem comparable to what's obtained from metabolizing the other components present in much larger amounts.

Beverage craponation is going to have a different effect than adding hydrocraponate salts.

I see, those flavonoids would not be of significance for increasing CO2 load. The most naringenin is found in the feces though but some can also be reabsorbed.

A large percentage of naringenin absorbed in humans appears in the urine as naringenin glucuronides (29,50,64), indicating that conjugation, presumably within the intestine or liver (29), may play a major role in the metabolism of this compound. Naringenin has also been reported to be a substrate for a UDP glucuronosyl transferase (33). Furh et al. (29) showed that excretion of naringenin glucuronides in humans reaches levels more than 100-fold higher than the concentration of naringenin excreted in the urine. Hackett et al. (38) have shown that a major route for flavonoid metabolism in rats is excretion in the bile. This generally occurs following conjugation of flavonoid polar hydroxyl groups with glucuronic acid, sulfate, or glycine. Naringenin present in the bile may either be excreted or reabsorbed, therefore raising the possibility of enterohepatic recycling of naringenin.

 

[PeskyPeater]

Yup it‘s a strong CYP450 inhibitor
it‘s well known if you are taking things like abx, statins, etc etc etc that you must Not have grapefruit juice because or can cause dru toxicity

OJ is ok and doesnt Cause these issues

Yeah so it seems, but wouldnt it be more economical then to cut the drug dose in half to compensate?
But my question is then are those substances getting into the brain and inhibiting CYP450 there?
bergamottin and naringenin hesperidin in particular

 

[PaRa]

Yeah so it seems, but wouldnt it be more economical then to cut the drug dose in half to compensate?
But my question is then are those substances getting into the brain and inhibiting CYP450 there?
bergamottin and naringenin hesperidin in particular

Cutting the drug dosage is just shooting in the dark
I dont understand what you meant, cyp450 is a liver thing Not a Brain thing

 

[PeskyPeater]

Cutting the drug dosage is just shooting in the dark
I dont understand what you meant, cyp450 is a liver thing Not a Brain thing

no worries. Oh it seems like it does: click here
Interaction between flavonoids and the blood-brain barrier: in vitro studies - PubMed

 

[GeoX]

I believe Peat reversed himself on grapefruit during the past couple of years, as he did with mushrooms and some type of fiber. He now says that grapefruit is generally ok. I don't have a reference.

 

[GeoX]

I believe Peat reversed himself on grapefruit during the past couple of years, as he did with mushrooms and some type of fiber. He now says that grapefruit is generally ok. I don't have a reference.

...and I'm sure his relatively recent endorsement of oat bran was a surprise to many too.

 

[IVILA]

...and I'm sure his relatively recent endorsement of oat bran was a surprise to many too.

doesn't really matter. We know the effects that grapefruit can do...

 

[PeskyPeater]

Grapefruit is not that of a big deal on the CYP450 relatively seen. There a lots of herbals that have 3A4 inhibition and P-glycoptotein inhibition that influence drug metabolism. So be aware of that when experimenting with herbal suppl. Others induce the enzymes so it increases the breakdown and can be protective to exogenous substances. Like saint john's wort.

 

[IVILA]

Grapefruit is not that of a big deal on the CYP450 relatively seen. There a lots of herbals that have 3A4 inhibition and P-glycoptotein inhibition that influence drug metabolism. So be aware of that when experimenting with herbal suppl. Others induce the enzymes so it increases the breakdown and can be protective to exogenous substances. Like saint john's wort.

That's not the point. There are estrogenic compounds like daidzein, genistein, and Biochanin A in grapefruit as well as lignans and other things like high amounts of beta-carotene and lycopene which is not attractive to consume regularly.

 

[PeskyPeater]

That's not the point. There are estrogenic compounds like daidzein, genistein, and Biochanin A in grapefruit as well as lignans and other things like high amounts of beta-carotene and lycopene which is not attractive to consume regularly.

thanks for your reaction, that's good to know

 

[Cloudhands]

nobody mentioned the high levels of glucaric acid in grapefruits though. If u eat a grapefruit you will experience mostly benefits, if you drink a ton of the juice and dont have the rest of your diet in check, or if you have a specific condition then sure youll experience issues. Just eat a wide variety of fruits and drink your milk and fruit if you can tolerate it and youll be ????

 

[A.R]

Interesting thread.

My brother swears by grapefruit juice. He is definitely hypothyroid, prone to sickness, has kidney issues, and is a stage 4 cancer survivor. He says he feels immediate positive effects from grapefruit juice and eating grapefruits.

I barked the Peatism at him that grapefruits are pro-estrogen, anti-tyroid, but I think it's good to keep researching and discussing these things.

How is your brother getting on?

 

[Mossy]

How is your brother getting on?

He is doing ok, all things considered.

He is still dealing with the after effects of the chemo, mostly evident in his very poor teeth. The cancer's affect on one of his vocal cords has done some permanent damage, but his voice sounds near normal. He just has a nagging, hoarse cough as a result.

He still swears by grapefruits.

Thank you for asking.

 

[A.R]

He is doing ok, all things considered.

He is still dealing with the after effects of the chemo, mostly evident in his very poor teeth. The cancer's affect on one of his vocal cords has done some permanent damage, but his voice sounds near normal. He just has a nagging, hoarse cough as a result.

He still swears by grapefruits.

Thank you for asking.

You could ask your doctor if it’s safe for him to try k2 mk4 for his damaged teeth