There must be something we’re missing

[GreekDemiGod]

Been reflecting a lot lately about the entire philosophy of Ray surrounding nutrition and physiology. And while his ideas are elegant and fit together, I can’t seem to think that maybe he is missing something.
He had thyroid issues, so he focused a lot on thyroid and metabolism.
I’m listening to Morley Robbins and he said that the thyroid gland does not run the body.

Why does one have high estrogen? High cortisol? Why do other men thrive in supposedly estrogenic/ toxic environments and still have high Testosterone?
Focusing on lowering or raising X hormones seems fundamentally wrong to me and it’s not getting us to the root causes. There must be a homeostasis in the body.

We see guys/ bodybuilders who crash their E2 and have pronounced negative effects. This should tell you that the whole idea of forcibly lowering or crashing a hormone is stupid.
We should look deeper than hormones and let the hormone levels fall where they may fall.
I guess I’m trying to find whether there is a researcher out there who is levels above Peat and has figured out what Peat hasn’t.

 

[SamYo123]

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/Ccf3eyYLnqi/

 

[Nomane Euger]

Been reflecting a lot lately about the entire philosophy of Ray surrounding nutrition and physiology. And while his ideas are elegant and fit together, I can’t seem to think that maybe he is missing something.
He had thyroid issues, so he focused a lot on thyroid and metabolism.
I’m listening to Morley Robbins and he said that the thyroid gland does not run the body.

Why does one have high estrogen? High cortisol? Why do other men thrive in supposedly estrogenic/ toxic environments and still have high Testosterone?
Focusing on lowering or raising X hormones seems fundamentally wrong to me and it’s not getting us to the root causes. There must be a homeostasis in the body.

We see guys/ bodybuilders who crash their E2 and have pronounced negative effects. This should tell you that the whole idea of forcibly lowering or crashing a hormone is stupid.
We should look deeper than hormones and let the hormone levels fall where they may fall.
I guess I’m trying to find whether there is a researcher out there who is levels above Peat and has figured out what Peat hasn’t.

Hi,why make you think Ray is "missing something"specifically?

If i had to speculate about why some men do thrive into environnements estrogenic/toxic environnements,higher fat soluables vitamins and certains minerals passed passed by their mothers and also during their childhood possibly that allow them to have a better adaptation to stress in a given environnement that would be more detrimental for a part of the people.there is peoples with high testosterone who do not thrive and do not adapt well to stress.

i have not seen many peoples,or ray saying you should crash a single hormone independently of the way you use to accomplish it,and independently of how it make you feel.

most of the "mainsstream"influencers you will be exposed to have not figure out much,most of them dont talk about fruits or milk or talk about it as a negatively because "the scientific data suggests that its bad",and most of these influencers dont preach paying attention to your feelings and paying attention to how the things you consume and life styles factors you expose your self to affect you as the first principle to esteem whats bad or good for you in your given context,and most of them do not have a high degree of health and energy,a lot of them are in neutral or bad health/energy,most of these influenceurs do not talk about specific feelings, they simply gas light people with broad terms and appeal to authority/consensus,appeal to ancestral living,this type of fallacy.

i would said with out the intention to hurt your sensitivity,you have not figured out some of the valuables things ray peat has figured out

 

[Korven]

Been reflecting a lot lately about the entire philosophy of Ray surrounding nutrition and physiology. And while his ideas are elegant and fit together, I can’t seem to think that maybe he is missing something.
He had thyroid issues, so he focused a lot on thyroid and metabolism.
I’m listening to Morley Robbins and he said that the thyroid gland does not run the body.

Why does one have high estrogen? High cortisol? Why do other men thrive in supposedly estrogenic/ toxic environments and still have high Testosterone?
Focusing on lowering or raising X hormones seems fundamentally wrong to me and it’s not getting us to the root causes. There must be a homeostasis in the body.

We see guys/ bodybuilders who crash their E2 and have pronounced negative effects. This should tell you that the whole idea of forcibly lowering or crashing a hormone is stupid.
We should look deeper than hormones and let the hormone levels fall where they may fall.
I guess I’m trying to find whether there is a researcher out there who is levels above Peat and has figured out what Peat hasn’t.

I think Ray Peats perspective is a lot more nuanced than just "lowering or raising hormones". In his articles he is always taking about the causes behind hormonal derangements, for instance environmental toxins and emotional stress.

People that thrive in sub-optimal environments probably had a great time in utero with mom being super healthy, living a stress-free life and eating good foods, and then growing up in loving and caring household and eating nourishing foods, and so on and so forth. Early life stressors can cause long-lasting maladaptive changes to your physiology and reduce stress resilience. Moreover we inherit frailty from previous generations due to their exposure to stressful environments. Then there's also the element of bad luck - the person that is enjoying good health today might get very sick tomorrow and spend years fumbling around trying to get back to his previous state.

IMO it's futile comparing yourself to other people, it only causes feelings of helplessness and depression. They are not you and you are not them. Focus on your own progress instead!

My takeaway from Ray Peat is that he is trying to get people to think for themselves. A.k.a "perceive, think, act". Peating is not just spamming thyroid, milk and OJ. You don't have to restrict yourself to only one source of information. Learn from different people and integrate things that make sense and help you feel better. If Morley Robbins say that the liver is the most important organ, maybe that is something worth exploring?

 

[Phosphor]

Nature AND nurture. My sister was extremely sickly once she started first grade. My mother had literally kept the house, in her words, "sterile," because she did not want my sister (first-born, huge learning curve for the parent) to be sick. The consequence was that my sister did not develop immunity to anything and literally almost died of the measles in first grade. And did die of some kind of cancer in her 20s; was ALWAYS weak and sick throughout her short life.
I remember literally playing in the dirt from about age three -- which is around the time my sister was going through the beginning of all her illnesses, and I assume our very good doctor told my mother to put me outside. I've been quite healthy and am now doing pretty well at 72. So perhaps my sister didn't have a wonderful bodily setup to start with, but the lack of exposure to germs certainly did not do her any favors. Nutrition was the best available at the time, not what I would consider stellar today, but at least back then (1950s) the food was not loaded with chemicals like it is now, so not so bad in comparison.

 

[TheCalciumCad]

Been reflecting a lot lately about the entire philosophy of Ray surrounding nutrition and physiology. And while his ideas are elegant and fit together, I can’t seem to think that maybe he is missing something.
He had thyroid issues, so he focused a lot on thyroid and metabolism.
I’m listening to Morley Robbins and he said that the thyroid gland does not run the body.

Why does one have high estrogen? High cortisol? Why do other men thrive in supposedly estrogenic/ toxic environments and still have high Testosterone?
Focusing on lowering or raising X hormones seems fundamentally wrong to me and it’s not getting us to the root causes. There must be a homeostasis in the body.

Have you explored the Grant Genereux / Garrett Smith ideas on Vitamin A yet? I've only been exploring them for a few weeks but they seem to think if you heal the liver (by depleting vitamin A) the liver can actually function and thus have ideal gut health and proper thyroid function as after you unburned the liver from retinol it can convert T4 into T3 freely. I've been Peating for 4years but the high vitamin A foods (eggs/carrot salad/liver) have been making be feel sick the last 6months an in case of mangos they made me physically sick but I've only just put it together.

 

[Neeters 27]

Been reflecting a lot lately about the entire philosophy of Ray surrounding nutrition and physiology. And while his ideas are elegant and fit together, I can’t seem to think that maybe he is missing something.
He had thyroid issues, so he focused a lot on thyroid and metabolism.
I’m listening to Morley Robbins and he said that the thyroid gland does not run the body.

Why does one have high estrogen? High cortisol? Why do other men thrive in supposedly estrogenic/ toxic environments and still have high Testosterone?
Focusing on lowering or raising X hormones seems fundamentally wrong to me and it’s not getting us to the root causes. There must be a homeostasis in the body.

We see guys/ bodybuilders who crash their E2 and have pronounced negative effects. This should tell you that the whole idea of forcibly lowering or crashing a hormone is stupid.
We should look deeper than hormones and let the hormone levels fall where they may fall.
I guess I’m trying to find whether there is a researcher out there who is levels above Peat and has figured out what Peat hasn’t.

Not everyone has high estrogen! I had almost ZERO estrogen and that was killing me! the only time a woman may have high estrogen is when she is not ovulating prior to menopause. I agree with you, not everyone has high estrogen, estrogen is necessary for both sexes, and all hormones have to be balanced. Why do all women after menopause become insulin resistant? low estrogen. add estrogen and pre-diabetes is GONE. in one day...energy returns, fatigue gone, skin better, and sex drive comes back. here I was taking DIM and anti estrogen supplements, making myself worse and worse. we need cortisol to wake us up in the morning. without adequate estrogen, we dont make either enough cortisol or our adrenal glands become dysfunctional and cortisol spikes at wrong times...once I was on a good regime of bio identical hormones, everything improved. Just saying, very few women and men can have a full healthy life with LOW levels of hormones. topping up saves us and gives us our life back. Aging is a CONSEQUENCE of dwindling hormones!!!!!!

 

[noodlecat]

you are projecting because ray never says to forcibly crash hormones. the idea that taking an aspirin will significantly lower your estrogen to the point it is like a bodybuilder taking an anti estrogen drug is simply retarded. dont project your own failures to achieve wellness on ray because implying the man is missing something is just saying you are missing something. it is not complicated.

 

[PeatReader]

Focusing on lowering or raising X hormones seems fundamentally wrong to me and it’s not getting us to the root causes

I agree as most people think on level of oh my dhea is low so I should take some dhea but without thought as to why it's low in the first place. I'm starting down the rabbit hole of circadian rhythms and sunlight as it relates to mitochondrial function. There is a whole field of people who believe that diet, supplements, and exercise are not the answer to optimal health yet this is what everyone pursues. I don't know if they are above peat or not but I think they are on to something that is important.

Most of the people who are looking into this seem to be influenced by Dr. Jack Kruse and also Douglas C. Wallace. There are a lot podcasts with Jack Kruse but also a lot of other people who are looking into this who simplify it. Once I dove in I realized there is a whole new dimension to health that I had been completely overlooking.

 

[noodlecat]

I agree as most people think on level of oh my dhea is low so I should take some dhea but without thought as to why it's low in the first place. I'm starting down the rabbit hole of circadian rhythms and sunlight as it relates to mitochondrial function. There is a whole field of people who believe that diet, supplements, and exercise are not the answer to optimal health yet this is what everyone pursues. I don't know if they are above peat or not but I think they are on to something that is important.

Most of the people who are looking into this seem to be influenced by Dr. Jack Kruse and also Douglas C. Wallace. There are a lot podcasts with Jack Kruse but also a lot of other people who are looking into this who simplify it. Once I dove in I realized there is a whole new dimension to health that I had been completely overlooking.

jack kruse is really good at word salad

 

[PeatReader]

jack kruse is really good at word salad

Yeah he does seem kind of.. weird.. but I don't like to throw out the baby with the bath water. And he's far from the only source of information on the topic. Satchin Panda has a Ted talk for a more mainstream perspective.

 

[noodlecat]

Yeah he does seem kind of.. weird.. but I don't like to throw out the baby with the bath water. And he's far from the only source of information on the topic. Satchin Panda has a Ted talk for a more mainstream perspective.

all that stuff like getting good sunlight is nice but truly healthy people can live in any normally human habitated climate and thrive. of course tropical sunshine is probably quite nice compared to dreary winters but being in such good health you actually like dreary winter is an amazing feeling.

 

[aniciete]

all that stuff like getting good sunlight is nice but truly healthy people can live in any normally human habitated climate and thrive. of course tropical sunshine is probably quite nice compared to dreary winters but being in such good health you actually like dreary winter is an amazing feeling.

It seems like applying “peat principles” and living in a cold and dreary climate don’t really go together unless you plan on popping various pills

 

[GreekDemiGod]

you are projecting because ray never says to forcibly crash hormones. the idea that taking an aspirin will significantly lower your estrogen to the point it is like a bodybuilder taking an anti estrogen drug is simply retarded. dont project your own failures to achieve wellness on ray because implying the man is missing something is just saying you are missing something. it is not complicated.

His whole research and view of biochemistry/ physiology comes down to tying almost everything with estrogen and high/low metabolism

 

[GreekDemiGod]

It seems like applying “peat principles” and living in a cold and dreary climate don’t really go together unless you plan on popping various pills

I remember Matt Blackburn saying recently how cod liver oil has improved his tolerance of cold weather and found that interesting.
The question that arises if it's smart to optimize your organism for the supposedly ideal warm climate/ environment, with sun all year round and fresh tropical fruits, even though you don't really live in such a climate.

 

[Nomane Euger]

His whole research and view of biochemistry/ physiology comes down to tying almost everything with estrogen and high/low metabolism

hi,how do you know his whole research of biochemistry/ physiology?assuming that it "come down to trying almost everything with estrogen and high/low metabolism",did ray implied that you should forcibly crash your estrogen to 0,independently of the the way you achieved it and independently of how it make you feel,and that it will make you reach a high degree of energy/health to accomplish it in it self,independently of other factors?

 

[Nomane Euger]

It seems like applying “peat principles” and living in a cold and dreary climate don’t really go together unless you plan on popping various pills

hi,you can feel great in a cold climate applying "peat principles"with out popping any pill,just foods

 

[aniciete]

I remember Matt Blackburn saying recently how cod liver oil has improved his tolerance of cold weather and found that interesting.
The question that arises if it's smart to optimize your organism for the supposedly ideal warm climate/ environment, with sun all year round and fresh tropical fruits, even though you don't really live in such a climate.

Last summer I was in the best health I’ve ever been in eating lots of fresh fruits, raw milk, oysters, sometimes liver and some ground meats. I moved up north after summer and continuing eating this way has crippled my health. I should’ve listened to my body and not forced myself to keep drinking lots of milk and eating lots of imported fruits that weren’t even that ripe. I started consuming a bunch of honey, maple syrup and other sugars devoid of nutrients while eating lots of dairy products and organ meats thinking my nutrition was “covered” like I’ve seen users allude to. Although my temps are good and my sleep is good, I’ve had bowel issues/skin issues and cold hands/feet which I think were caused by adrenaline and stress from liquids, devoid calories and excessive supplementation. IME, it’s mind blowing how fast things can go down hill by blindlessly taking advice without listening to your body and following your cravings.

 

[aniciete]

hi,you can feel great in a cold climate applying "peat principles"with out popping any pill,just foods

IMO, there is something inherently inflammatory about eating imported fruits that aren’t native or grown in the area you live.

 

[BearWithMe]

I think the reason why Ray is so focused on thyroid and metabolism is 20/80 principle. Obviously human health is super complex topic affected by many factors, but nothing will give you a bang for the buck like improving thyroid / metabolism do.

The more compex you make your teachings, the less people will follow.

The problem with "Peatosphere" is that we trust the studies too much. Way too many studies are straight up lies / deliberate deception, and some of the "Peatarian" ideas are based on such studies.

This is what we are missing IMO. More skepticism to "official data" and "scientific research". But it is slowly getting better.