Steroid Cycle: Test P + Masteron Questions & Discussion

[olive]

Hey @olive I am wondering if a Insulin Syringe is enough to get the oil into the muscle. I don’t know if it reaches „intramuscular“ as the insulin pins are usually very short/small. Which (size) one would you recommend to use?
I am asking because I like to switch spots more regularly (using chest, delt, ventro, upper/outer glute area) instead of only using upper glute and ventro so far with the 23g needle. Thanks

Insulin needles work fine as long as your not excessively fat and the oil isn’t too viscous. Assuming the brewer is using MCT/it’s derivatives it should pass the through the slin pin quickly. Grape seed oil or equivalent would still work but may be quite slow. Castor oil likely would clog. As far as spots go I’d avoid the glutes unless you’re very lean, otherwise you risk it going subq. There’s nothing wrong with that per say but it slows down absorption time and can lead to mildly painful welts underneath the skin. Delts, chest, lats, ventro glute, outer right quad, teardrop, biceps, triceps are all good spots to hit with an insulin pin. Even upper outer forearm is okay. Traps and calves can be painful and should be a last resort in my opinion.

 

[boxers]

Chapter 24: Estrogens and Body Weight Regulation in Men

Excellent article

 

[olive]

Excellent article

I agree. I was thoroughly impressed reading, it’s a shame it will likely go unread/ignored by most on this forum who for whatever reason have a bias toward low estrogen when it’s obvious that’s a fools errand. It’s hilarious reading the vitamin k threads, all these men mega dosing vitamin k and losing their hair thinking it’s due to their skull expanding in a matter of days - not realising they’ve simply just crashed their estrogen.

 

[boxers]

I agree. I was thoroughly impressed reading, it’s a shame it will likely go unread/ignored by most on this forum who for whatever reason have a bias toward low estrogen when it’s obvious that’s a fools errand. It’s hilarious reading the vitamin k threads, all these men mega dosing vitamin k and losing their hair thinking it’s due to their skull expanding in a matter of days - not realising they’ve simply just crashed their estrogen.

"A growing body of evidence now also supports a critical role for estrogens in metabolic regulation in men. Recent data from clinical intervention studies indicate that estradiol may be a stronger determinant of adiposity than testosterone in men, and even short-term estradiol deprivation contributes to fat mass accrual."

"Only over the past few years have clinical intervention studies begun to confirm pre-clinical evidence that estradiol contributes to body weight regulation and metabolic health in men. One small study examined the effects of testosterone replacement in obese men with low-normal baseline serum testosterone concentrations. Whereas treatment with testosterone gel led to significant reductions in adiposity, these changes were not seen when testosterone was co-administered with an aromatase inhibitor"

Chapter 24: Estrogens and Body Weight Regulation in Men

 

[NextLevel_]

Insulin needles work fine as long as your not excessively fat and the oil isn’t too viscous. Assuming the brewer is using MCT/it’s derivatives it should pass the through the slin pin quickly. Grape seed oil or equivalent would still work but may be quite slow. Castor oil likely would clog. As far as spots go I’d avoid the glutes unless you’re very lean, otherwise you risk it going subq. There’s nothing wrong with that per say but it slows down absorption time and can lead to mildly painful welts underneath the skin. Delts, chest, lats, ventro glute, outer right quad, teardrop, biceps, triceps are all good spots to hit with an insulin pin. Even upper outer forearm is okay. Traps and calves can be painful and should be a last resort in my opinion.

Thank you. So you are saying an Insulin needle is „big“ or rather „long“ enough to reach intramuscular?
This would be very painless and smooth and also fast pins i guess. Also nice that this way using an insulin needle you can use so many more spots to pin.

 

[olive]

Thank you. So you are saying an Insulin needle is „big“ or rather „long“ enough to reach intramuscular?
This would be very painless and smooth and also fast pins i guess. Also nice that this way using an insulin needle you can use so many more spots to pin.

Yes, it’s long enough for most spots to hit intramuscular. Glutes may be the only exception due to the tendency of people to carry a thick layer of fat between the muscle and the skin.

 

[boxers]

High e2 has been amazing for me.. i lost a lot of weight in my mid section

 

[boxers]

Im a little disappointed I believed in an anti estrogen for about 10 years... i probably destroyed myself using an AI and other ways to combat e2....

i would be scared to get a dexa scan

 

[A.R]

I agree. I was thoroughly impressed reading, it’s a shame it will likely go unread/ignored by most on this forum who for whatever reason have a bias toward low estrogen when it’s obvious that’s a fools errand. It’s hilarious reading the vitamin k threads, all these men mega dosing vitamin k and losing their hair thinking it’s due to their skull expanding in a matter of days - not realising they’ve simply just crashed their estrogen.

In your experience, what symptoms do you feel when estrogen is pushed too low?

 

[olive]

In your experience, what symptoms do you feel when estrogen is pushed too low?

Sore joints, cracking joints, inflexibility, poor skin texture, dry cracking lips, dry penis head, loss of girth, low libido, weak orgasms, poor insulin sensitivity, poor sleep, poor gut motility, constipation, mood swings, night sweats, fatigue, lethargy, anhedonia, itchy scalp/skin, hair loss, fat accumulation around the mid section, etc.

 

[boxers]

Sore joints, cracking joints, inflexibility, poor skin texture, dry cracking lips, dry penis head, loss of girth, low libido, weak orgasms, poor insulin sensitivity, poor sleep, poor gut motility, constipation, mood swings, night sweats, fatigue, lethargy, anhedonia, itchy scalp/skin, hair loss, fat accumulation around the mid section, etc.

,my symptoms are almost identical

 

[TheBeard]

,my symptoms are almost identical

Scrotal T application will take care of that

 

[boxers]

Scrotal T application will take care of that

Dosage?

 

[sebastian_r]

Thank you. So you are saying an Insulin needle is „big“ or rather „long“ enough to reach intramuscular?
This would be very painless and smooth and also fast pins i guess. Also nice that this way using an insulin needle you can use so many more spots to pin.

I'm using insulin syringes as well, though you should not go below 0.33mm (29G) x 12.7mm. Otherwise the oil can leak out of the muscle and you get the effects of an subq injection, which can be unpleasant using test prop.

 

[NextLevel_]

@sebastian_r @olive

Currently I have a 30Gx1/2 Insulin syringe/needle, that is 0.3mmx12mm

Good? Or should I get the little bit bigger ones as Sebastian mentioned? 0.33mmx12.7mm?

Thanks

 

[Satellite]

There you go:

https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/Impact of estrogens in males and androgens in females.pdf?token=AWyPapGY6yeInDNmdd0U4eRDIR5RiFqqoz85yiN5Yc2sDkGHu_5dLzdm1zkk23PcLgIbJ7yP7uCla-xHZ5OxNkwyTtYiULTVEpUarRxqMHNMKSOIKFdZFlin3N7GfvCPERt9ADrq-uAmWxW4WRt4E91LSxxHLTfWFQi-vDav8PEeOwq8wNFznbIljtOLzIQD_KulJLfAik71Ybz9mhAGTvwV

If you want to understand better the role of estrogens in men, you can listen to Alex Kikel’s podcasts.
Estrogen therapy is indeed a very succesful one for men, when it comes to muscle mass, libido and joints :)

Thanks, I’ll read through it when I can.

At a glance though, I fail to see how this contradicts what I’ve said repeatedly...

Curious, do you also have any evidence that contradicts your statements?

 

[Satellite]

Chapter 24: Estrogens and Body Weight Regulation in Men

Thanks, what evidence do you also have that you are wrong? How did you structure your analysis?

Estradiol does not directly regulate adipose lipolysis

See? You can literally make any claim and then find a study to back it up.

Also, this doesn’t negate my statements. In my original post I stated to use this product for OCT Test Booster Combo Pack which has an A.I. but also a SERM and will improve sensitivity without dropping estrogen too low.

As I’ve stated, estrogen shouldn’t be tanked.

You’ve stated that estrogen is required for anabolism and preventing catabolism isn’t sufficient, and that we should check steroid forums, yet the bodybuilding community has shied away from wet steroids because the bloat and other damaging estrogenic side effects just aren’t worth the hassle for such little gains.

Thus why dry, lean gains are now sought after instead.

Estrogen is a stress hormone, so yes it can lead to fat loss if metabolism increases enough, which will probably happen when you give someone with low hormones sufficient hormones.

However, be it estrogen or steroids or t3 or whatever, the anabolism/catabolism is merely an expression of current energy stores.

Taking steroids won’t save my muscles if I start running marathons.

 

[NextLevel_]

I'm using insulin syringes as well, though you should not go below 0.33mm (29G) x 12.7mm. Otherwise the oil can leak out of the muscle and you get the effects of an subq injection, which can be unpleasant using test prop.

What exactly do you mean by unpleasant?
I have used the insulin syringe 30G 0.30mm x 12.0mm for the past 2 days to inject in my thigh. I absolutely don’t have a lot of fat tissue there. So I am assuming it went intramuscular. However I got some PIP at the area of injection now.

 

[sebastian_r]

What exactly do you mean by unpleasant?
I have used the insulin syringe 30G 0.30mm x 12.0mm for the past 2 days to inject in my thigh. I absolutely don’t have a lot of fat tissue there. So I am assuming it went intramuscular. However I got some PIP at the area of injection now.

Yes for lean area the needle you use should be long enough. A little bit of pip is normal with prop on a new muscle. With unpleseant I'm referring to big red swellings of the skin that can take 3-7 days to go away when you inject prop subq.

 

[Luming Zhou]

Sore joints, cracking joints, inflexibility, poor skin texture, dry cracking lips, dry penis head, loss of girth, low libido, weak orgasms, poor insulin sensitivity, poor sleep, poor gut motility, constipation, mood swings, night sweats, fatigue, lethargy, anhedonia, itchy scalp/skin, hair loss, fat accumulation around the mid section, etc.

Those symptoms are similar to cortisol deficiency a.k.a. Addison's disease. Supraphysiological levels of testosterone could lower cortisol to the point of deficiency. Cortisol helps to suppress inflammation. Itchy skin, night sweats and cracking joints are symptoms of inflammation. Estrogen raises cortisol, which in turn suppresses inflammation, which may explain why you feel better with higher estrogen.