Sleep is failing

[hei]

Does anyone have tips for correcting a destroyed sleeping pattern like so:

Date	Sleep times	Hrs
30-Nov	23:00-04:45	5.8
1-Dec	12:00-16:00	4.0
2-Dec	21:45-05:45	8.0
4-Dec	09:00-15:00	6.0
5-Dec	04:00-16:30	12.5
6-Dec	03:45-12:30	8.8
7-Dec	03:30-15:30	12.0
8-Dec	12:20-17:00	4.7
9-Dec	03:45-14:00	10.3
10-Dec	05:15-09:15	4.0
11-Dec	11:00-12:45	1.8
12-Dec	03:40-14:30	10.8
13-Dec	15:10-19:00	3.8

It's getting a bit concerning at this point as it seems like I can't stay asleep for long even when I should be very tired. When I try to sleep in the evening nothing happens. It's to be expected if I just work up a bit earlier from 12 hours of sleep but it's that way even on the days with 2 hours of sleep after being awake for 24+ hours. Using cypro (1-2mg/night), progesterone, and tried aspirin a few times as it has helped in the past, but as you can see, not working so well. I'm starting to feel quite run down by now.

 

[rr1]

‎Get Fit with Jodelle: Dr. Ray Peat Q&A Sleep Strategies and Solutions on Apple Podcasts

‎Show Get Fit with Jodelle, Ep Dr. Ray Peat Q&A Sleep Strategies and Solutions - Feb 19, 2020

podcasts.apple.com

Could be a helpful podcast if you haven't heard it yet.

 

[hei]

Thanks, downloading it but it's pretty slow.

 

[MrGilbert]

Melatonin works like magic for me (although Ray believes it can shrink your penis, so I stopped)
Other ideas: ditch caffeine, maximize physical activity, avoid blue light & EMF in the evening, herbal teas (eg hops, valerian etc), magnesium.

 

[LLight]

I've already mentioned in my threads about iodine that it has cured decades-long, intractable delayed sleep phase syndrome in people.

It's also famous for improving sleep quality.

Iodine + fluid intake minimization (because it could improve iodine cells uptake via Sodium/Iodide symporter upregulation).

 

[Ignoramus]

I also have issues. This is what has been beneficial for me:

-Meditation before bed. Focus on breathing and releasing all tension, emotion and thoughts.
-Huuuge carb meal 1.5hrs before bed. Rice noodles seem to work well for me.
-Don't exercise. Every day I go to the gym I seem to have poor sleep (I guess CO2 issues).
-Bag breathing for 20 mins at night.
-Try an air purifier if you think that breathing is the issue (I got a decent one for like $80). Nasal sprays work for me too (but I don't know how safe they are).
-Thiamine. This seemed to be a game changer for me!
-Cut back on caffeine.
-Warm milk with sugar near bed. Sometimes this seems to cause me congestion though.
-Taurine 1g before bed. This seems to make me sleep longer, a bit like a milder cypro.
-Cypro 1mg. I quit cypro because it seems to be ******* with my motivation. For some reason low doses work best for me.
-Make a commitment to take an hour or so for yourself before bed and make a ritual. I like to do stretches (particularly for neck and back) and release all of the tension and negativity from the day. I have a peppermint oil diffuser thing (no science behind that and idk if it works or not), I drink herbal tea and stretch + bag breathe while watching something chill (with screen set to no blue light mode). I then end with 30 mins of meditation and I seem to fall right asleep.
-Slight bed elevation.

Good luck! I know that sleep issues are a nightmare.

 

[charlie]

-Thiamine. This seemed to be a game changer for me!

There it is.

 

[hei]

Melatonin works like magic for me (although Ray believes it can shrink your penis, so I stopped)
Other ideas: ditch caffeine, maximize physical activity, avoid blue light & EMF in the evening, herbal teas (eg hops, valerian etc), magnesium.

Can't get melatonin here, I could maybe try next year if I could get some. Don't drink coffee, admittedly don't really do any physical activity. I do use magnesium but it's not having a clear effect on my current situation.

Iodine + fluid intake minimization (because it could improve iodine cells uptake via Sodium/Iodide symporter upregulation).

I have a milk bottle here that says it has 17µg iodine per 100mL so I think I am getting quite a good amount from drinking a few litres a day. I am not sure about fluid minimisation as it is quite hot here and I sweat rather a lot, even being inside in the air conditioning which is drying also.

There it is.

Tried 500mg tablets, even multiple at once, and couldn't even tell I had taken anything.

 

[charlie]

Tried 500mg tablets, even multiple at once, and couldn't even tell I had taken anything.

500mg is quite the dose to start with.

 

[LLight]

I have a milk bottle here that says it has 17µg iodine per 100mL so I think I am getting quite a good amount from drinking a few litres a day. I am not sure about fluid minimisation as it is quite hot here and I sweat rather a lot, even being inside in the air conditioning which is drying also.

Clearly, that's not negligible amounts of iodine, even if this is still far from "orthomolecular" quantities.

How many liters do you drink a day?

Do you sweat even when in the air conditioning?

 

[Ben.]

Melatonin made me sleep but it would totally wreck me in a way that i would feel like ***t after waking up. As if it would interfere with the natural on and off sleep switch we have, not taking it again unless i see no other way.

Just some suggestion from my experience:

- Vitamin d and a b komplex in the morning could help to improve deep sleep/rem sleep (dont take at night!)
- Taking a walk in the morning or troughout the daylight hours (or any low stress movement realy), moving to little during the day results in not being "exhausted/tired" enough by bed time
- Avoiding computers/phones/tv's 1-2 hours before bed could help
- Creating a ritual before bed can train your brain into sleeping whenever you do the ritual in the future (brushing teeth, calming music, dressing for the occasion with pyjamas or atleast loose and noncompressive clothes, meditation, breathwork, reading a good book that is not causing excitement etc.)
- Eat something easy for energy 30 mins to an hour before bed - waking up to early could be caused by low bloodsugar during the night
- Waking up to soonish could also be caused by breathing issues during sleep - maybe get that checked out (Cpap mask "could" help in that case short term)
- no coffee after 2pm (it circulates up to around 8-14 hours if i remember correctly, blocking the receptors which are supposed to make you sleep)
- low gabba / to much stress could be a cause (DONT make it a habit supplementing gabba, only short term usage, if it works its a good indicator tho)
- magnesium or taurin or glycin before bed seems to help in many people
- stop raging thoughts when going to sleep (indicator of stress), try concentrating on your breath, or fantasise about something nice
- remove phones and other electronic devices from your bedroom (emf, especially phones close to the head have been shown to interfere with brain activity)
- remove potential noices that could wake you during the night (put phone on airplane mode if you keep it in the bedroom)
- make your bedroom as dark as possible and see if that helps you
- if possible make the bedroom a little colder compared to the rest of the house (should still feel comfortable)
- get plants into your bedroom that have been shown to either filter the air or some that cause an calming smell (for example jasmine)
- gut smashing with a tennis ball activates the parasympathetic nervous system (massage your stomache via lying on it)

 

[hei]

500mg is quite the dose to start with.

People reported various results with that dose and I didn't want to waste money buying pills providing not much more than what's in a b-complex.

Clearly, that's not negligible amounts of iodine, even if this is still far from "orthomolecular" quantities.

How many liters do you drink a day?

Do you sweat even when in the air conditioning?

2-4 litres depending on appetite.
My sheets often get damp where I have been lying and if I am a bit active then I will start to sweat quite readily. Likewise, when I am at work, if I go for a bit of a walk outside then I will keep sweating for some time after coming in.

 

[YourUniverse]

@hei does your appetite change on the days you sleep lots vs sleep little? I notice I eat less when I sleep well. It may be worth trying to eat EVEN MORE when you sleep well (especially early in the day [breakfast/lunch]), to quell the peaks and valleys of your sleep schedule

 

[hei]

Yeah, I have always noticed eating more on sleep deprived days but in my current situation I'm not sure, there is no pattern to my sleep and it doesn't even align with days, kind of hard to keep track.

 

[Spartan300]

Diet and supplements can only do so much. Are you feeling stressed?

 

[LLight]

2-4 litres depending on appetite.
My sheets often get damp where I have been lying and if I am a bit active then I will start to sweat quite readily. Likewise, when I am at work, if I go for a bit of a walk outside then I will keep sweating for some time after coming in.

If I were you, I would try reducing my fluid intake so as to drink only when I'm thirsty. Try that as your last option if you are not comfortable with it.

 

[StephanF]

Did your irregular sleep gradually got worse? Or did it change after you moved to a different house or apartment? Are there cell towers nearby? Do you keep your WiFi on during the night? I have posted before on the benefit of sleeping grounded or on a positive potential. Sometime so-called 'earth energies' can affect your sleep, read here:

I Want To Sleep

Hey :) I need your help/advice I sleep like 5 to 6 hours with the aid of melatonin I take 10 to 20 mg of it every night from 6 months Then I read here it's unhealthy And it shrink our sexual things And I noticed that on my self lately But without it I can sleep good But I will stop...

raypeatforum.com

Sometimes during the night, I wake up and my mind is going too fast for me to fall back to into sleep. Then Valerian root helps to quiet the mind down. A good combination that helps me is melatonin, Valerian root and magnesium.

 

[hei]

Did your irregular sleep gradually got worse? Or did it change after you moved to a different house or apartment? Are there cell towers nearby? Do you keep your WiFi on during the night? I have posted before on the benefit of sleeping grounded or on a positive potential. Sometime so-called 'earth energies' can affect your sleep, read here:

I Want To Sleep

Hey :) I need your help/advice I sleep like 5 to 6 hours with the aid of melatonin I take 10 to 20 mg of it every night from 6 months Then I read here it's unhealthy And it shrink our sexual things And I noticed that on my self lately But without it I can sleep good But I will stop...

raypeatforum.com

Sometimes during the night, I wake up and my mind is going too fast for me to fall back to into sleep. Then Valerian root helps to quiet the mind down. A good combination that helps me is melatonin, Valerian root and magnesium.

It has been like this for a long time but when I was at work I couldn't sleep in the day even though what I could get at night was very erratic. But even on the weekends (especially when I went to 4-day weeks and had 3-day weekends) it would revert to being all over the place. I have been on leave since the start of November and since then it has been totally irregular as shown in OP.

It first got really bad several years ago when I moved to another city. At first I thought it was because the weather there is very hot but I'm not sure if that's really it. For like 18 months I got hardly any sleep, getting to sleep took forever and I pretty much woke up pretty much every 15-60 minutes all night long. I don't think they even had 4G when I moved there and the phone reception they had was poor.
After that settled down (I think it was due to poor nutrition) sleep has still been very poor, even nights where I can't get to sleep at all. Over time my ability to sleep in a cooler climate has also declined, I spent the last two weeks somewhere with very comfortable, cool nights and it has gone as below:

14-Dec 1:45pm-7pm
15-Dec 11:30pm-7:30am
16-Dec 10pm-4:30am
17-Dec 8pm-2:30am
18-Dec 11:30pm-6am
19-Dec 8:30pm-2:30am
20-Dec 8?/9:30pm-4:15am (dozed off on the floor before going to bed)
21-Dec 8pm-1:30am
22-Dec 9:30pm-3am, ?4?-5:15am
23-Dec 9pm-4am (took 1/4 of a 25mg doxylamine succinate before bed)
24-Dec 10pm-4:30am

I have been avoiding napping during the day for fear of sleeping 3 hours and then not being able to sleep until the next afternoon, but even though I am very tired by mid-afternoon and have been falling asleep easily at night it hasn't improved how long I can stay asleep. When I was younger I found it very easy to stay asleep for 10+ hours every night in these same conditions.

 

[StephanF]

You could try to record audio while you sleep. If you snore or stop breathing, then you may have sleep apnea, but usually upon waking up in the middle of the night, your heart rate would be way up. Sometimes I wake up at night and my thoughts are not letting me fall asleep, then Valerian root helps, plus directing my thoughts to a beautiful place, like a sunset on a beach, helps. Or I focus on whatever flares up on my vision, this seems to be a kind of biofeedback, since the brain sees what it projects, often I quickly fall asleep by doing this. Hope this helps.

Avoiding blue light in the evening is also important. I downloaded an app for my computer screen 'f.lux' that one can set the time in the evening to lower the blue content of the LED screen. My iPhone has also such a setting, I set it so after 9:00 pm it reduces the blue content on the screen. If you have bright white LEDs, you may want to change them back to incandescent, since LEDs have a strong blue light content, the incandescent light bulbs are better in the evening. There is a company BIOS Lighting, they have a lot of good info on lighting for work or evenings before going to sleep:

LED Lighting Solutions by BIOS Lighting a NASA Spinoff

BIOS Lighting is a NASA spinoff providing LED lighting solutions for humans & plants. Learn how BIOS helps improve your health & commerical plant growth.

bioslighting.com

Inspired by that, I purchased some indigo LEDs, I think from eBay, and mounted them behind my computer to project against the wall. According to their literature, the upper vision field of the eyes have receptors that respond to this blue-green wavelength to make you more alert. I didn't notice a difference in my concentration, to be honest but it was a fun project.

Then they (BIOS) said that early humans would gather around campfires at night, so this affects the lower vision field of the eyes, and trigger sleepiness. Important is that the bedroom is completely dark, any light leaking through can mess with the sleep. Dr. Mercola has written articles about that. Especially blue light is harmful. I bought a humidifier that had blue LEDs lighting up when it was running. Such nonsense! I disconnected them, of course.

Archived Article Notice

The article you are looking for has been archived in Dr. Mercola's Censored Library on Substack.

articles.mercola.com

Archived Article Notice

The article you are looking for has been archived in Dr. Mercola's Censored Library on Substack.

articles.mercola.com

There may be more articles on Mercola's website or look for more info on the web.

 

[LuMonty]

I've had similar sleep problems off and on my whole life. Even as recently as a month or two ago I had times where I stayed up for a day, went to work, maybe took a nap, and then hopefully went to bed. Tried lots of stuff and you have some good suggestions here. For me, the only thing I've used that's worked without negative effects, like zombification from antihistamines or melatonin, is progesterone. I see you're already using progesterone. What kind is it and how much do you use?