Scalp Massages To Stop/halt Hairloss 2020?

[PeskyPeater]

If scalp tension theory and massages have a role in mpb, how can this be explained?

How could my receding areas be more flexible than those that haven't receded?

scalp tension hypotheses is nonsens , my scalp is never tense and have lost hhair nontheless.

 

[PeskyPeater]

Another explanation why vigorous massage works is "creep".
Creep occurs when skin exhibits an additional lengthening beyond its intrinsic extensibility and is explained by extrusion of fluid from the dermis and a breakdown of the dermal framework.
“Creep” and mechanical and biological “stretch” are responsible for expansion. During expansion, the epidermis thickens, the dermis thins out, vascularity improves, significant angiogenesis occurs, hair telogen phase becomes shorter and the peripheral nerves, vessels and muscle fibres lengthen. Expansion is associated with molecular changes in the tissue.
The scalp can be expanded up to two times its surface area before showing signs of hair thinning.

Now this sounds plausible mr Apple ! Awesome ! Now I just need to borrow two small chinese women to stamp on my scalp vigorously :)

 

[BigShoes]

If scalp tension theory and massages have a role in mpb, how can this be explained?

How could my receding areas be more flexible than those that haven't receded?

look at the scalps of bald men - they are usually incredibly shiny. This is long-term inflammation -> fibrosis -> calcification. The skin is hard and inflexible. It is not the "tension" as such that is the problem, but tension is a bi-product / co-factor in all of these things. the balding scalp is less flexible or mobile than the non-balding scalp of the same person prior to balding.

The temples are *always* going to be very easy to move and manipulate, because of the nature of the skin there. But they are still likely much more tense than they used to be. Still though, it is the inflammation -> fibrosis -> loss of blood flow -> calcification that causes the hair loss, not the tension itself.

The reason why vigorous massage can often help is *LIKELY* that very minor wounding (i.e. the massages) increases blood flow to an area where the capillaries are slowly dying. If the scalp had been left alone, then the follicles would eventually be cut off from blood supply and constrict. The constant massaging helps to keep the blood (and therefore, the nutrients) pumping through said capillaries,

It's like forking over a lawn and constantly watering it in times of high sun heat and no rainfall. The optimal thing for the grass would be a bit less sun, and more rain (i.e. less inflammatory hormones and stress metabolites in the blood stream, less inflammation, less fibrosis, more nutrients going to the follicles - due to good metabolism and nutrition), but in times where this is not possible like in a summer heat-wave (to continue the analogy: where the individual's metabolism is stressed and not working well), then watering the grass and caring for it (massaging the scalp and increasing blood flow) is better than nothing and could help keep the grass (hair) in good shape.

 

[Apple]

look at the scalps of bald men - they are usually incredibly shiny. This is long-term inflammation -> fibrosis -> calcification. The skin is hard and inflexible. It is not the "tension" as such that is the problem, but tension is a bi-product / co-factor in all of these things. the balding scalp is less flexible or mobile than the non-balding scalp of the same person prior to balding.

The temples are *always* going to be very easy to move and manipulate, because of the nature of the skin there. But they are still likely much more tense than they used to be. Still though, it is the inflammation -> fibrosis -> loss of blood flow -> calcification that causes the hair loss, not the tension itself.

The reason why vigorous massage can often help is *LIKELY* that very minor wounding (i.e. the massages) increases blood flow to an area where the capillaries are slowly dying. If the scalp had been left alone, then the follicles would eventually be cut off from blood supply and constrict. The constant massaging helps to keep the blood (and therefore, the nutrients) pumping through said capillaries,

It's like forking over a lawn and constantly watering it in times of high sun heat and no rainfall. The optimal thing for the grass would be a bit less sun, and more rain (i.e. less inflammatory hormones and stress metabolites in the blood stream, less inflammation, less fibrosis, more nutrients going to the follicles - due to good metabolism and nutrition), but in times where this is not possible like in a summer heat-wave (to continue the analogy: where the individual's metabolism is stressed and not working well), then watering the grass and caring for it (massaging the scalp and increasing blood flow) is better than nothing and could help keep the grass (hair) in good shape.

it can not be just a matter of blood flow. That would mean that half of males and majority of females are superior in some way and never develop so called inflammation -> fibrosis -> calcification. They probably would have excelent health with no heart diseases and live twice longer, that is not so.
Increasing blood flow is not a big deal: daily capsaicin cream, wearing woolen hat constantly, living in hot climate would do the job, hot sauna. In fact I rather see that men start balding earlier in sunny countries.

 

[GenericName86]

Another explanation why vigorous massage works is "creep".
Creep occurs when skin exhibits an additional lengthening beyond its intrinsic extensibility and is explained by extrusion of fluid from the dermis and a breakdown of the dermal framework.
“Creep” and mechanical and biological “stretch” are responsible for expansion. During expansion, the epidermis thickens, the dermis thins out, vascularity improves, significant angiogenesis occurs, hair telogen phase becomes shorter and the peripheral nerves, vessels and muscle fibres lengthen. Expansion is associated with molecular changes in the tissue.
The scalp can be expanded up to two times its surface area before showing signs of hair thinning.

So "creep" is the key to scalp massages?

 

[Apple]

So "creep" is the key to scalp massages?

it is just one of possible explanations... you can read the following studies about "creep". If you want the massage really to work we need some understanding of what 's going on and how to apply massage.
In the study they mention "The scalp can be expanded up to two times its surface area before showing signs of hair thinning ". What I observe in my hairline, despite it receded, the pattern of hairs close to the hairline is somehow preserved. Hair didn't just fall out but rather either scalp contracted a couple cm or scull got expanded, difficult to say. I swam a couple times in icy water and I noticed how hairline literally moved forward on forhead maybe one centimeter.

A Review of Surgical Methods (Excluding Hair Transplantation) and Their Role in Hair Loss Management Today

There is more than one way to manage hair loss surgically. Apart from hair transplantation, there are other techniques which have been used by many to treat baldness. This article attempts to review the surgical methodology and philosophy that have acted ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Scalp expansion with the Canica Wound Closure System: First case report

The closure of difficult wounds has been an ongoing challenge to the plastic and reconstructive surgeon. New techniques and technology have created innovative methods for this clinical and surgical problem. The Canica Wound Closure System is an external ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[BigShoes]

it can not be just a matter of blood flow. That would mean that half of males and majority of females are superior in some way and never develop so called inflammation -> fibrosis -> calcification. They probably would have excelent health with no heart diseases and live twice longer, that is not so.
Increasing blood flow is not a big deal: daily capsaicin cream, wearing woolen hat constantly, living in hot climate would do the job, hot sauna. In fact I rather see that men start balding earlier in sunny countries.

It isn't just blood flow - but I *believe* it to be a contributing factor. Reduced blood flow is more of a downstream outcome from the real problem. The real problem is general inflammation and stress metabolism, as well as dysregulated hormones. It's difficult to know exactly how to fix this. But:

- Low thyroid -> low metabolism -> reduced cell respiration efficiency -> lower temperatures and lower blood flow. Not ideal for anything to run optimally, including hair growth. Strategies that promote optimal thyroid functioning should help - which is what this forum and Ray's work often centers around.

- Cortisol (i.e. a stress hormone) is a contributing factor, again, it disrupts healthy cell respiration - cells respire anaerobically to produce lactate, rather than CO2 and H2O. This can be countered somewhat with a "healthy diet" (which I won't go into, and am still trying to figure out myself) and reducing other life and environmental stressors - this is huge. Adrenalin falls into this camp too. An anxious and stressed person is much more likely to experience all kinds of negative health outcomes - hair loss included.

- Estrogen - an inflammatory hormone in excess, leads to systemic inflammation in the body and likely impairs head hair growth. Excess estrogen may be from harmful toxic chemicals (e.g. plastics in food) or systemic inflammation in the gut from bad foods - estrogen is produced to "protect" and is an inflammatory marker, that ends up leaching into the body from the intestine and causing a number of problems. Ray's "Carrot Salad" can help with this to clear the estrogen and endotoxin build up in the gut, as well as avoiding plastics etc.

- Prolactin - prolactin is a "shedding" hormone. This is the hormone actively responsible for hair shedding in mammals before summer, as well as other functions. Reducing prolactin can be done by: semen retention *possibly* (prolactin spikes after male orgasm - regular masturbation MAY cause constant unnatural spikes of this hormone), reducing estrogen as above (the two hormones are interlinked), keeping a high calcium to phosphate ratio (or at least, ensuring that a minimum of 800mg of calcium is consumed per day). too low calcium leads to higher secretions in Parathyroid Hormone, which signals the body to "leach" calcium from other areas (i.e. the bones) for essential processes. This PTH increase leads to increases in prolactin.

- Parathyroid Hormone - as above, leads to calcium leaching from other areas. This calcium can then collect in soft tissues over log periods of times e.g. arterial plaques, and capillaries supplying blood to the scalp.

- Excess Serotonin - again from gut irritation - similar to estrogen in the gut in that respect. A good diet and low gut irritation can help reduce this.

Additional good things that may help, in addition to reducing the above:
- Vitamin K2 - this helps to shuttle the calcium towards bone, and stops it from collecting in the soft tissue.
- Anything that will improve circulation - salt, vitamin C etc. etc.

I believe that to reduce the risk of hair loss, or reverse some hair loss if it has already started, an individual should:
- Diet
- c. 20% protein, c. 20%-30% fat, c. 50%-60% carbs - all from approved sources (I won't go into this too much)
- adequate salt, calcium, iodine, vitamins and other trace minerals etc., vitamin K
- food that is not inflammatory
- keep a high calcium to phosphate ratio, or at least ensure that a good amount of calcium is consumed daily
- Sleep - lots of quality sleep between 10pm and 8am
- Stress - reduce stress and stressors as much as humanly possible. And increase things that make you feel good and wholesome (e.g. hanging out with friends, walking in nature etc.)
- Lots of sunlight without burning
- Possible thyroid support if the individual is not in a good space here.

This should give the individual the best chance to age slowly, and well. And ward off disease and degeneration.

For any existing hair loss, things like 'focused massages' for the hair should be done in conjunction with the above.

 

[PeskyPeater]

The renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system is most import to take control over in these cases of fibrotic hairloss.

Function​

The renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system is primarily associated with blood pressure regulation by modulating blood volume, sodium reabsorption, potassium secretion, water reabsorption, and vascular tone. Other described functions of the RAAS include inflammation, apoptosis, and fibrosis.[5] This article will focus on the role of the RAAS in cardiovascular physiology and blood pressure hemostasis.

Aldosterone works by stimulating the insertion of luminal Na channels and basolateral Na-K ATPase proteins. Whether aldosterone results in salt retention without losing potassium or potassium loss without salt retention is described as a paradox because the same stimulus (aldosterone) has the ability to cause seemingly opposite outcomes.[9] The interaction between aldosterone and the mineralocorticoid receptor is influenced by phosphorylation at its binding site. Phosphorylation reduces aldosterone affinity and thereby reduces receptor activation, often described as a “switch” for whether or not mineralocorticoid receptors will react to aldosterone.[10]

The effect of angiotensin II on vasoconstriction takes place in systemic arterioles. Here, angiotensin II binds to G protein-coupled receptors, leading to a secondary messenger cascade that results in potent arteriolar vasoconstriction. This acts to increase total peripheral resistance, causing an increase in blood pressure.

 

[golder]

The renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system is most import to take control over in these cases of fibrotic hairloss.

Interesting, do you think an ARB like Losartan could have a place in slowing down hair loss?

 

[PeskyPeater]

@golder yes sir

Abstract

Factors that influence the growth of the anagen hair follicle or initiate the switch to a catagen growth pattern have so far not been definitely determined, but there is increasing evidence that cytokines and growth factors play an important role during these processes. Recently we detected an aberrant in situ expression pattern of cytokines of the Th1 type (IFN gamma, IL-2) plus IL-1 beta expression in untreated alopecia areata (AA), and a switch to high levels of IL-10 TGF-beta 1 expression after successful treatment with the contact allergen diphenylcyclopropenone (DCP). Hence the question arose as to whether cytokines are able to arrest hair growth and whether IL-10 or TGF beta 1 have the capacity to antagonize this process. Using whole-organ cultures of microdissected human hair follicles we studied the effect of a panel of cytokines and growth factors on hair growth and on the gross morphology of the hair follicles in vitro. IL-2, IL-10 and IFN-gamma had no effect in this regard, whereas TGF beta 1 partially inhibited hair growth and EGF, TNF alpha and IL-1 beta completely abrogated it. EGF and TNF alpha induced the formation of a club-like hair follicle, similar to catagen morphology of the hair bulb, whereas hair follicles grown in the presence of IL-1 beta or TGF beta 1 showed no particular morphological changes. We conclude that cytokines and growth factors are pivotal regulators of hair growth at least in vitro. IL-1 is suggested as playing an important role during the pathogenesis of AA. Possible mediators of therapeutic contact dermatitis (IL-10, TGF beta 1, TNF alpha, PGE2) are, at least in vitro, not able to antagonize the IL-1 beta-triggered hair growth inhibition. Therefore, we infer that these mediators rather "modulate' the immune response in AA.

Cytokines and growth factors influence hair growth in vitro. Possible implications for the pathogenesis and treatment of alopecia areata - PubMed

RAS and Tumorigenesis Pathways
The effects of activating the RAS pathway axis signaling has been mostly studied
in tumor cells. On top of the usual blood pressure regulation role of ATR1, more recent
observations showed that AT1R mediates several pathological events associated with
activated RAS, such as upregulation of cell proliferation, inhibition of apoptosis, motility,
migration, invasion, and angiogenesis (see Figure 3) [ 33– 36 ]. In contrast, the Ang (1,7)-
MAS receptor and the Ang II-AT2R pathways are thought to antagonize many of the
cellular actions of the Ang II-AT1R axis. Tumors cells, but also important components of
the tumor microenvironment, such as endothelial cells and fibroblasts, can generate and
express RAS components promoting angiogenesis [37 ]. Neutrophils and macrophages
are also capable of and use these RAS signaling pathways to produce and secrete growth
factors (VEGF), cytokines (IL-1, IL-6, TNFα), and generate reactive oxygen species in
hypoxic and inflammatory environments [ 38].

Review
Renin–Angiotensin–Aldosterone System and Immunomodulation: A State-of-the-Art Review

 

[golder]

@golder yes sir


Cytokines and growth factors influence hair growth in vitro. Possible implications for the pathogenesis and treatment of alopecia areata - PubMed


Review
Renin–Angiotensin–Aldosterone System and Immunomodulation: A State-of-the-Art Review

Great find, I’m going to dig into this later. What dosage do you use out of curiosity? Do you think it would any potentially use as topical application?

 

[PeskyPeater]

@golder IM using littel bits of candesartan every now and then. its reptty strong stuf as it also has 'anti-depressant'effects especially icw other dopaminergics, I get too speedy.
IM not sure about topical dosing or absorption etc

 

[golder]

@golder IM using littel bits of candesartan every now and then. its reptty strong stuf as it also has 'anti-depressant'effects especially icw other dopaminergics, I get too speedy.
IM not sure about topical dosing or absorption etc

Thanks! How does candesartan compare with Losartan?

 

[PeskyPeater]

Thanks! How does candesartan compare with Losartan?

not much difference in effect, more xpensive. the exipients of most of losartan contain silica and candesartan it has some ironoxide that should not be taken with fruits as the vitaminC increases iron absoption

 

[Vins7]

Ta

look at the scalps of bald men - they are usually incredibly shiny. This is long-term inflammation -> fibrosis -> calcification. The skin is hard and inflexible. It is not the "tension" as such that is the problem, but tension is a bi-product / co-factor in all of these things. the balding scalp is less flexible or mobile than the non-balding scalp of the same person prior to balding.

The temples are *always* going to be very easy to move and manipulate, because of the nature of the skin there. But they are still likely much more tense than they used to be. Still though, it is the inflammation -> fibrosis -> loss of blood flow -> calcification that causes the hair loss, not the tension itself.

The reason why vigorous massage can often help is *LIKELY* that very minor wounding (i.e. the massages) increases blood flow to an area where the capillaries are slowly dying. If the scalp had been left alone, then the follicles would eventually be cut off from blood supply and constrict. The constant massaging (and therefore, the nutrients) pumping through said capillaries,

It's like forking over a lawn and constantly watering it in times of high sun heat and no rainfall. The optimal thing for the grass would be a bit less sun, and more rain (i.e. less inflammatory hormones and stress metabolites in the blood stream, less inflammation, less fibrosis, more nutrients going to the follicles - due to good metabolism and nutrition), but in times where this is not possible like in a summer heat-wave (to continue the analogy: where the individual's metabolism is stressed and not working well), then watering the grass and caring for it (massaging the scalp and increasing blood flow) is better than nothing and could help keep the grass (hair) in good shape.

Thanks for your answer, good analogue and well exposted.
My question is, could brushing the hair be as efective as massages for the same objective (helps to keep the blood pumping through capilares)?

 

[BigShoes]

Ta

Thanks for your answer, good analogue and well exposted.
My question is, could brushing the hair be as efective as massages for the same objective (helps to keep the blood pumping through capilares)?

I can't know for sure, but I would say that this is unlikely. Surface level brushing likely would not create sufficient acute inflammation within the skin itself to encourage blood flow. Additionally, the friction of aggressive brushing could damage the hair even further without actually stimulating any blood flow, and make the problem worse (in theory), or certainly not help it.

The massaging needs to be conducted in a way that the *skin* underneath the hair is being treated, and the hair itself is not being pulled. To continue an analogy, imagine taking a dust pan and brush to a garden lawn - it would not really do anything to treat the soil beneath the grass, and would: do nothing at best, or rip out even more grass at worst).

Here is a standardized method to conduct the massages:


View: https://vimeo.com/310444236/bed6eb03c2

 

[Vins7]

I can't know for sure, but I would say that this is unlikely. Surface level brushing likely would not create sufficient acute inflammation within the skin itself to encourage blood flow. Additionally, the friction of aggressive brushing could damage the hair even further without actually stimulating any blood flow, and make the problem worse (in theory), or certainly not help it.

The massaging needs to be conducted in a way that the *skin* underneath the hair is being treated, and the hair itself is not being pulled. To continue an analogy, imagine taking a dust pan and brush to a garden lawn - it would not really do anything to treat the soil beneath the grass, and would: do nothing at best, or rip out even more grass at worst).

Here is a standardized method to conduct the massages:


View: https://vimeo.com/310444236/bed6eb03c2

I can't see the link.
Have you experiences with these massages therapy?
Do you think that there are alternative to massages the scalp with hands? Any tool or or mecanical product? It requires a lot of time and effort and I don't see it as sustainable to have 20 minutes twice a day of massages in this way.

 

[BigShoes]

I can't see the link.
Have you experiences with these massages therapy?
Do you think that there are alternative to massages the scalp with hands? Any tool or or mecanical product? It requires a lot of time and effort and I don't see it as sustainable to have 20 minutes twice a day of massages in this way.

Can you click on the orange hyperlink underneath? The embed code does not work but I can still click the link to access. I received the video from signing up to the "Perfect Hair Health" newsletter (free), so there may be some "e-lock" in the background, but I doubt it - I think it is just an unlisted video.

I have just started this massage therapy this last week, so I cannot comment on success. I am by no means affiliated with PHH, and am somewhat skeptical, but you can see some apparent before-and-afters below:

Before-After Photos - make sure to click on the "without FDA drugs" ones.

Yes, very *very* difficult to stick with this for 8-12 months honestly..... I don't mean to pat myself on the back, but I have been an *extremely* dedicated individual in the past (I don't think I've had a week off from the gym / working out in 14 years, high achiever at school, university and work), and even I don't know if I can stick to this. It's awkward, it's uncomfortable, I don't get the time in the morning, and it messes up any styling you might have wanted to keep for the day / evening, it tires your forearms if you are doing it right.

I have thought that a way to make it easier is to buy a small mirror to sit on a desk, and do the massaging while you are watching TV / listening to a series - this obviously has to become a regular habit for at least 8 months, more like 1 year plus, to see significant reversal. And EVEN THEN, the results are not guaranteed - (1) you may not be massaging correctly, (2) even if you are massaging correctly, your scalp may not respond for some other health reason, or other such bull****.

I am personally taking a kitchen sink approach:
- Ray Peat / Danny Roddy type diet and supps (no thyroid supps though) with additional 3-4 eggs for choline, and a small amount of milk for iodine (I struggle with dairy protein digestion) and more starch for more consistent temps... keep meat proteins to 40g (200g meat), adequate calcium, 3:1 carb:protein overall... the classic stuff.
- lots of sleep - I have persistently stayed up too late for most of my life. This *needs* to change if I am going to regain my health... 1am bedtime should not be the norm.
- trying to reduce stress as much as possible, walk in nature, get sun when available (UK sucks)
- trying to incorporate these massages

There's a lot embedded in that. But I really don't see what else I can do other than these things. I think there are two indicators of going in the right direction:

(1) Monitor your hair fall. They say that "up to 100 hairs fall out every day, so don't be alarmed f you notice shedding". But it really isn't a good thing for you to notice loads of hairs falling every time you comb your hair, or hair falling out and sticking to your face / shoulders / going down the plughole in the shower all the time. If you can reduce the amount of hair fall (via the lifestyle points above), this is a strong sign that things are improving. It helps if your hair is slightly longer (3 inches+) in terms of monitoring - very hard to monitor if your hairs are all really short.
(2) once the hair fall has reduced or been stopped - you are really on the right track. If you can maintain this, then it is likely that your hair will thicken up again purely due to retention and other hairs growing in from the resting follicles. But for me, I think this is where the massages come in - if you can get the hair fall to slow / stop, then you will be more likely to see benefits from the massages too.

If you cannot achieve (1), then it is likely that the massages will be ineffective / low success-to-effort ratio.

 

[BigShoes]

I can't see the link.
Have you experiences with these massages therapy?
Do you think that there are alternative to massages the scalp with hands? Any tool or or mecanical product? It requires a lot of time and effort and I don't see it as sustainable to have 20 minutes twice a day of massages in this way.

To add. Somewhat annoyingly, the women seem to respond better to the massages than the men do ... insult to injury.

However, there are still quite a few promising success stories there. The only thing is, are they 1/10, 1/100, 1/1000? How many people have done everything right without seeing re-growth - not easy to tell.

Rob has a graph somewhere plotting "perceived hair improvement" on the y axis, and "total time spent massaging overall" on the x axis. He claimed the results were really positive, but I think it looks like a very mixed bag...

From his website:

Trendlines suggest that the more total hours put in (let's say 100 hours = approximately 4 months of 45 mins total per day (roughly)), then the better the *perceived* hair change in the participant with vertex thinning. and or hairline recession (green and blue lines). Those with diffuse thinning tended to give up way earlier, probably due to the difficulty of the task.

This data seems to suggest that: after 4 months of works (100 hours), there is a pretty even spread between good(+1), no change(0) and bad(-1) across the group - 33% chance of some success. After this point, those with -1 tended to drop off and quit.... perhaps they were not doing it hard enough, not as dedicated as they reported, or they did everything right but had some other hair problem.

Those who stuck with it for 200 hours (call it 8 months) also tended to show a pretty even spread between good(+1) and no change(0). If you notice, after about 150 hours (6 months) those who were not seeing any benefit tended to quit, leaving only the good(+1) and no change(0) left in approximately a 50:50 ratio by 200 hours.

This means that, even with those who persist til 8 months, it's about a 50:50 chance of seeing any "SELF-PERCEIVED" benefit. The study also does not make clear what +1 means.... an 5% increase in hair count? Full recovery? this is unclear. Also, if you exclude all the (-1) because they left the study, you obviously are only going to see the good(+1) and nochange(0), so the trendline will always be positive........

The chart is overall quite damning. To me, it suggests that hair volume may improve in around 33% of people who attempt this, and even then, we cannot expect full coverage.

If you are in a position where you are noticing some minor thinning and want to stop things in their tracks NOW. I would suggest:
(i) Working in the peat paradigm to prevent / minimize your hair shedding as much as possible. Obviously very hard to do sometimes.
(ii) With this shedding minimized, it is likely that you are in a more healthy metabolic state and your hair is being retained as a result.
(iii) Then, it may be worth keeping that lifestyle going, and incorporating said massages for a solid 6-8 months. If you do not notice any improvements at all after 6 months, then it is possibly unlikely that things are just going to magically start responding at 12 months.

Note though: the resting phase of a hair is 100 days - just over 3 months. A hair that has just fallen and is "resting", coupled with any miniaturization that may have occurred, could in theory take WELL OVER 6 months to see any benefit => a few months to repair the follicle, a couple more months for the follicle to kick it self out of the "resting" phase (even once function is restored), then the hair has to grow itself out (approximately 1-1.5cm per month... this is why 1 year is recommended.

 

[Apple]

So you guys want to say that you can just massage skin any where on you body and it will start growing hair ?
Will it be like real hair or beard hair or pubic hair .
Do you really believe that ?