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Recipes For Lowering Serotonin (Serotonin Syndrome Recovery Diet)

Discussion in 'Recipes' started by Jerimy Brown, May 3, 2018.

  1. Jerimy Brown

    Jerimy Brown Member

    As I have been dealing with this serotonin issue, I have found that I am very sensitive to food, so I wanted to start a thread about food options, that bare minimum, do not cause worsening of symptoms for me, so probably won't for most others given my sever sensitivity...

    Most people on this forum will tell you these items are safe(I believe):

    Bone Broth
    White Rice, with butter and salt
    In most cases potatoes and carrots steamed/boiled very soft or mashed potatoes if you stick to butter and salt for flavoring
    I found any dairy, or meat would not work for me initially(my symptoms would increase immensely after consumption), even meet cooked on the bone.

    That's all fine and good, but I went through a several week period, where that is literally all I could have, and besides loosing a lot of weight, it was also terribly boring, and the lack of appetite from high levels of serotonin, with the boredom of selection wasn't helping... so I started getting creative... like taco bell, how can I have a few basic ingredients, but prepare them differently.

    I created a rice noodle soup that has been one my favorites, it's super easy, and quick, and could be put in a thermos and carried to work, if you are a working professional like myself, it has enough protein and carbs, that you don't need to worry about a reaction one way or the other there.

    I prep everything Sunday night, so all I have to do is mix ingredients in a bowl and microwave for 3 minutes. Steam or boil carrots and potatoes, cook a whole box of rice noodles and store in refrigerator in separate containers.

    Rice noodle soup:

    RiceNoodleSoupForSerotoninSyndrome.jpg
    80z of the Sprouts bone broth, whichever flavor you prefer
    3oz of the more expensive kettle fire, mushroom and chicken, for flavor and addition of mushroom
    Dump in rice noodles, a few large spoon fulls of carrot, and potatoes
    Add a small amount of butter, and black Hawaiian sea salt
    Optional:
    Pour about half a shot glass of the fermented cabbage, this adds a real nice flavor and some probiotics, but if you find your gut is still too sensitive for this, leave it out and maybe just add a tiny bit more salt to your liking. I find a full shot glass of this to be too much for me still, but half seems to be OK. Also I know fermentation is not peat, so if your trying to stay peat, just leave this out ;)
     
  2. OP
    Jerimy Brown

    Jerimy Brown Member

    Best advice I can give anyone dealing with this... start with the simplest diet you can manage, and Keep a food diary/log

    Once I simplified my diet, to rice and bone broth, it was easy to see, within hours, or same day, when something didn't agree with me... I get a ringing in my ears, and a jittery sensation in my muscles when things don't agree with me, and if it gets really bad I start noticing a tightness in my neck and/or other muscles... these things were hard to notice when my symptoms were really bad, but now that I am getting better, and getting used to what to look for, it's pretty easy to notice. Usually, if something isn't agreeing with me at the gut level, I notice it within an hour or two... If it's something that's increasing my serotonin levels, that can sometimes take longer, and will accumulate over days, if I keep ingesting the item that's causing it, so the first day I might feel a little off, or have a harder time sleeping that night, the second day it get's worse, and so on. That's why it's important in the beginning to simplify the diet IMO... You can see what's affecting you easily when you try one new thing at a time. But, what often happens, at least it did with me, is you are desperate to feel better, so you try everything under the sun, get worse, and don't know why, because you tried 5 new things on the same day, so how would you know what did it?

    I keep a simple food/sleep log every day, and when I have a meal, I write down date/time and what I had, I always make sure it's got protein and carbs, and I come back to the log after 2 hours and write down how I feel after, unless I only eat stuff I know I am safe with, then I don't make notes on it.

    Here is a sample of what a couple days in my log looks like for me... I have been doing this since the beginning, so it's easy to scroll back through and see my notes to myself, because the confusion I felt when symptoms were really bad made it had to remember things. Can't tell you how many times I would do something that seemed to mess me up, then go back through my notes to find I had made a note of it before and just forgot... That damn brain fog... I can not express how valuable this log has been in helping me sort out what's working, and what's not. Sample below...

    You can see from the small snippet below, that I hadn't figured out that protein and carbs should always be taken together yet ;)... Now I never do broth by itself, or a meal without it. I always make sure I have a good mix of protein, carb, and at least a tiny amount of fat even if it's just a small dab of butter added to something.


    04/23 - I am starting to notice that when I have broth by itself, that I feel a little off, & last week I made a note that too many carbs gave me symptoms, so start making sure to mix a little carbs in each time I drink a broth. Also found information on ray peat forum that seems to support this idea.

    04/23 - 6:15am - Vitamins, Zinc, Broth - before workout

    04/22 - best night sleep I’ve had since this started. Slept like 9 or 10 hours, which I’ve probably needed for some time, also, I feel like I could go back to sleep if I wanted, and haven’t experienced that since this started either.
    DAY 2 - NO JELLO/GELATIN YESTERDAY AND SLEPT GREAT LAST NIGHT - BEST DAY YET

    04/22 - 9:30pm - Broth before bed - felt a little off after this cup of broth, but it faded and now feeling sleepy
    04/22 - 7:30pm - Rice, Broth
    04/22 - 5:30pm - Broth
    04/22 - 3pm - Rice, Broth
    04/22 - 10am - Broth, Potatoes
    04/22 - 6:15am - Vitamins, Zinc, Broth - before workout

    04/21 - woke at 4 am and had to take more charcoal. Maybe aspirin did work last night? Last night I slept through the night. too much jello yesterday upset stomach. Stick to rice, potatoes and broth only today.
    DAY 1 - AFTER TOO MUCH JELLO/GELATIN MORE OBVIOUSLY ISN'T BETTER IN THIS CATEGORY
    04/21 - 8pm - charcoal before bed
    04/21 - 6:30pm - Rice, Broth
    04/21 - 4pm - Broth
    04/21 - 2pm - Rice
    04/21 - 1:15pm - Broth before workout
    04/21 - 11am - Potatoes, Broth - Feeling much better since cutting jello out… All that gelatin in my system definitely upset things
    04/21 - 9am - Potatoes, Broth
    04/21 - 6:45am - Vitamins, Zinc, Broth - probably took these too close to charcoal flush, don't do that again, or you might as well not take them.
    04/21 - 5am - 2 aspirin, broth
    04/21 - 4am - charcoal

     
  3. Why does bone broth give me a headache ? Anyone ? histamines?
     
  4. OP
    Jerimy Brown

    Jerimy Brown Member

    @Constatine - is one of the most knowledgable people I have run across, on this forum, on this subject... might have some ideas.

    I find, especially as I am getting better, that when I consume broth, it needs to have plenty of carbs included so you don't get a protein stress reaction from it. I also find that it seems to release the pressure I feel in my sinuses and ears from high serotonin, so it could potentially be a similar release of pressure for you, or that you are more sensitive to protein and maybe need a higher carb mixture, but I would be curious to see what Constantine has to add on this subject. I am uber-sensitive to everything it seems, so finding right mixtures has been key for me, and I am finding as I heal, that I am becoming less so. It could also be a specific ingredient in the bone broth you are trying, I found the kettle fire didn't agree with me as much early on because of something they make it with, but I have become more and more tolerant to it, and I use it more now because it tastes better than the sprouts brand, but the sprouts brand is the cleanest ingredient list I have discovered yet.

    I also found, when my symptoms were at their worst, that I could drink the kettle fire chicken mushroom, with less effect than the beef or plain chicken, so the addition of the mushroom ingredient seemed to offset whatever ingredient didn't agree with me in the other two flavors.

    I have had to become an ingredient and label freak to sort this stuff out, and everyone is a little different. Some people swear by caffein on this forum, and then others say it's bad for your gut... I found caffein increased my anxiety when I was at my worst, but now it seems to have a calming effect... It's all terribly confusing, but hopefully we can all help each other get through this ;)
     
  5. Thank you for your reply on that Jerimy- helpful! :)
     
  6. OP
    Jerimy Brown

    Jerimy Brown Member

    Yogurt, and Smoothies -

    If you are sensitive to dairy, I have a goat milk replacement suggestion for the smoothie below.

    My smoothy recipe:
    I use a half-cup of goat milk, a cup or two of fresh blue berries, a few table spoons of coconut milk (canned), a dab of coconut oil, and a cup of artesian water, sometimes add a little honey, and always have a cup of broth with it for some protein. If you are having issues with dairy, cut out the goat milk, and maybe add another 1/2 cup of coconut milk (from carton) instead... that can make it pretty thick, so just water down a little more until you find the consistency you like.

    Alternative Yogurt if you think you are ready for stronger probiotics:
    I found this alternative coconut milk yogurt that seems to be gentle enough... I do find that I feel small effects from it if I eat entire thing in one sitting, so I have half at breakfast, and/or half at lunch or following mornings breakfast.
    AlternativeYogurt.JPG
     
  7. Constatine

    Constatine Member

    Glutamic acid. Apparently the longer the bone broth is cooked the higher the glutamic acid content and it can reach extremely high levels. Stock is an alternative option or you can find a brand that works for you if you don't cook it yourself. If you do get headaches from bone broth you should not power through and continue (at least with that brand) as the headache is a sign of glutamate toxicity and is counter productive to your healing. I do think it is worth it to find a bone broth or source of gelatin that has low glutamic acid content as its very good for healing.
     
  8. OP
    Jerimy Brown

    Jerimy Brown Member

    @danishispsychic ^ there you go... I told you Constatine might have a better idea what that could be. And as usual, good info for me too, on the gelatin ;)
     
  9. Thank you C and J! makes more sense too as to why gelatin give me a migraine- I can't even handle gelatin in capsules but I bet that is a good thing really. :)
     
  10. You say you have serotonin issues with your food, How do you know this? have you tried taking 5-HTP? Or high serotonin food?... What happened?
     
  11. OP
    Jerimy Brown

    Jerimy Brown Member

    @ROBOTT32 - If you are asking me, I believe 5-htp is one of the things that created this problem for me... I was taking it in an over the counter supplement, along with another item I didn't know was also serotonin booster (I also believe my diet and lifestyle at the time contributed as well), and after some time, I stopped feeling joy in things, started experiencing anxiety, and bouts of aggression, would wake up at night sweating, or other times get very cold, goosebumps and chills, changes in blood pressure, and then I started getting involuntary muscle twitching in my fingers... All those things have gone away since stopping the 5-htp and CBD oil (that I was taking for inflammation for a gym injury)... My doctor seemed very surprised by this and said I must be very sensitive to serotonin and told me to to never allow anyone to prescribe me an SSRI. As I am getting better, I notice that when foods don't agree with me, I start getting cold in extremities, or getting a vibration like sensation or stiffness in my muscles, along with a ringing in my ears. As I have been healing, the ringing turned to more of a buzzing or crackling, and has mostly subsided now... Now when those things come back its a warning sign my body isn't liking something I am ingesting. My body is becoming more tolerant to foods as time goes by and my gut seems to be healing... Feels like I am returning to my normal self slowly but surely.
     
  12. Elize

    Elize Member

    Thanks for your sharing. Please could you tell me what food you eat and drink and what you avoid.

    Elize
     
  13. Elize

    Elize Member

    Oops sorry you did that I see. I react to even my home made broth boiled for less than 3 hours. Potatoes make me sweat like mad and make me jittery
     
  14. OP
    Jerimy Brown

    Jerimy Brown Member

    Oh wow... You are even more sensitive than me... There are other people on this forum in the same boat... there was one person that I saw that could only eat rice, and one that could only drink broth.

    Try looking at these threads (below) and see if anything there helps, and ask questions, there are some very knowledgeable people there, and if you are experiencing the confusion I had, i know sorting through all this info can be daunting to say the least:
    Unable To Stop My Extreme Serotonin Toxicity
    Help Me Reduce My Serotonin Levels

    I learned a lot on those two threads in the beginning, and ROBOTT32 and Constantine are both very knowledgable and helpful as well. They are on this thread and I think they are both on the two threads I shared above as well... Hope this helps.

    Also, have you tried jello? In the beginning, I was making jello, and adding additional unflavored gelatin into it, and it was the only way I could sleep at night(I would sleep for 3 hours, get up and eat more jello/gelatin, then sleep for 3 more hours), but be careful, because too much gelatin can really upset your gut... I ate way too much, for the relief, for several days in a row once, and I really wrecked myself... I also found great relief from activated charcoal in the beginning, I would take a shot of that before bed, and it would really help with sleep. I probably did too much of that in the beginning too. I think that should be done intermittently, but I was doing it twice a day for a couple/few days the first week.

    If you are interested here's some info on collagen and gelatin (As with anything, everyone is different and I advise you tread carefully until you see if it works for you, but it helped me for a decent amount of time, until I overdid it):
    https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/collagen-gelatin-lower-serotonin-increase-anxiety-depression/
    Gelatin Can Acutally Increase Serotonin
     
  15. So you are eating starch separately, and that digest well.
    But if you eat a lot of protein you get digestion problems is that right?
     
  16. OP
    Jerimy Brown

    Jerimy Brown Member

    If you are asking me, no that's not the case...

    I always have protein and carbs or starches together, I found I didn't have pleasant experiences with too much of one or the other(by themselves), but it took a bit of trial and error and reading on this forum to figure that out. Actually, I would say in the very beginning, my body was pretty accepting of just protein, it was't until I over did it with too much gelatin one week that my stomach got upset, but then I discovered bone broth and seems like that's when I turned a corner and started getting better. I am finding that now that my gut is healing and doing better I seem to be very hungry now and my body feels like it's craving more carbs than before, but as mentioned, I always have some bone broth or a protein source with those items... I have recently started adding goat milk and eggs to my diet, but I usually do those early in the morning(just in case, so I don't interfere with my sleep which has returned to normal for the most part), and in a limited amount still... In the beginning, dairy, eggs, or meat (even cooked on the bone), did not agree with me at all, I would get vibrations in my muscles, cold hands, sometimes tightness in neck or other muscles, basically like I could feel symptoms creeping back in. At least for me, I feel like a good mix of protein and carbs always together is key... I carb loaded one night in the beginning before I knew better, and I felt like it set me back a couple days at least. Now, I try new food introductions in the morning, and if something doesn't agree with me, I am able to recover before bed and still get a normal nights sleep. Next Tuesday will be the 8 week mark for me, and I feel like I am doing much better now and well on my way to a full recovery, assuming that's possible (it seems like it will be, there were times I wasn't so sure). I didn't think to ask my doctor that question last time I was in there, I was still dealing with the surprise and shock of everything that was still happening at the time.

    Either way, I think this has taught me, that I was severely protein deficient leading up to this, knew nothing at all about nutrition, even though I worked out a lot and tried to stay in shape, I really wasn't taking proper care of myself from a nutritional perspective. So, even if full recovery is a thing, I will continue much of what I have learned beyond that point. I also intend to continue learning and improving on my current new found knowledge, not only as a preventative measure, but also as a means of being truly healthy moving forward. I've learned a lot over the last 2 months, and still have a lot to learn... Especially the more I talk to you and Constatine and realize how little I still know ;).
     
  17. Thank you for this elaboration!
    Nice to see that you are making good combos and progress!
    Seems the bone broth helped to lower serotonin and methionine. Nice

    What I did to do that was to not eat meat for one month, but instead pressure cooked kidney beans(to remove anti-nutrients and increase bio-availability), and gelatin from chicken stew after refrigerating them and removing the top layer of PUFA. Eat with white rice and coconut-oil.

    My tendinitis was gone after that.
    But I discovered that I also had to stop caffeine for 6 weeks. Every time I drink coffee the tendons inflammation got worse.
     
  18. OP
    Jerimy Brown

    Jerimy Brown Member


    I had to do the same with caffeine... I am still not drinking coffee, but I just recently started trying some black tea w/honey, and seems to have a calming effect. In the first few weeks, any time I tried caffein after reading threads on this forum of people swearing by it, it just increased my anxiety, but now that the anxiety is gone, I am enjoying the black tea. Thanks for the kidney bean idea too, might have to try that just for some variety. My appetite is coming back strong, but I am still afraid to eat too much unless it's tried and true items I know I can trust. Early on I had no appetite and was getting worried about how thin I was getting, so I finally stopped working out for a couple weeks, and seems like my weight has stabilized... I was also noticing that I seemed to be getting a serotonin boost from the workouts because I would feel some of the tightness in my neck or my ears would start ringing again for a little while after workouts, and that made me wonder if stopping for a bit would speed up my healing process?
     
  19. The tightness of the neck and tinnitus are symptoms of over-excitation of glutamic acid neurotransmitter and connected nerves.
    This means that there is slight deficiency in neuro-calming transmitters, I guess GABA.
    Serotonin 5-HT is able to enhance glutamate-mediated excitation, indeed. This unbalance with workout can lead to nerve pain.
    Therefore stopping coffee was good thing indeed, but you can maybe increase GABA with Taurine, and Lemon Balm or Passion Flower.
     
  20. Also, there is the possibility that you have or an vitamin E deficiency, or reduced levels of vitamin B6, which is needed for the glutamic acid decarboxylase enzyme GAD that is responsible for routing glutamate into GABA. Probably because you have a litte too much of the dopamine / adrenaline.
    Indeed drinking green thee is a better alternative for you because the L-theanine will down-regulating excess cortisol and catecholamines like dopamine / adrenaline.
    So supplementing with vitamin E; vitamin B6; L-theanine, will re-balance it.

    Edit: Gotu Kola is also an GABA neuro-enhancer plus helps increase the action of Vit E.
     
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