Proteolytic Enzymes vs Vitamin E - Reversing fibrosis and soft tissue calcification

[Peatness]

I am trying to figure out how to reverse what feels like fibrosis on my scalp and back from injuries. I am magnetic and have a history of excess imaging (x-ray, ct, mri). I am also calcifying those areas. My blood pressure remains high. I believe if I don’t stop or reverse this process now I am going to have a heart attack or stroke. I have tried

Salt

Magnesium

Taurine

B vitamins including high dose B1 and B3

K1, K2

Vitamin D

Clove Oil

Herbs such as olive leaf

Vitamin E

Selenium

Progesterone

Pregnenolone

Continon/stressnon

Thyroid

Losartan/ Telmisartan


Peat mentions proteolytic enzymes a lot but he cautions against supplementing them.

Early in the century, unsaturated fats were found to inactivate the proteolytic enzymes that dissolve clots, and vitamin E was known, by the 1940s, to provide protection against the toxicity of the unsaturated fats (Ray Peat)

I had a reaction to serrapeptase 5 years ago after which my blood pressure was elevated. Recently I bought vitalzym but I’m too scared to use it. I have been using vitamin E instead to manage the scarring.

My other option is big pharma calcium channel blockers :-(

 

[golder]

I wonder what Ray has against supplementing Proteolytic Enzymes? Not seen him mention that before. Thanks!

 

[Ben.]

My thought aswell, what is it specifically that scares you of enzymes?

From what i researched you need to take them away from meals for them to have a systemic effect. Alot of anecdotes about serrapaptase and nattokinase report that alot of things that happen trough them, revert after using them, both the good and the bad (like a scar thats gone, reappears after going off serrapaptase).

Which at times makes me ponder how a cell can revert back to its damaged scar state when it has a phase of being "fine" again... like a trauma memory one cannot shake off ...

 

[Peatness]

I experienced internal injuries with serrapeptase 5 years ago and my blood pressure has not returned to normal since then. Following the incident I had a ct scan to investigate the damage and contrast dyes were used. I declined the dye but was told it was safe. I didn’t know then what I know now about these procedures. There may be an autoimmune reaction going on (pervious tetanus vaccine injury).

 

[Jam]

I experienced internal injuries with serrapeptase 5 years ago and my blood pressure has not returned to normal since then. Following the incident I had a ct scan to investigate the damage and contrast dyes were used. I declined the dye but was told it was safe. I didn’t know then what I know now about these procedures. There may be an autoimmune reaction going on (pervious tetanus vaccine injury).

Seems at least somewhat related to what @yerrag experienced.

 

[TheCalciumCad]

Sounds like a full body red light device would be good.

 

[yerrag]

Lots of time we get taken by the bells and whistles. Sure, the icing is nice, but does it make the cake?

What will full body red light do when you aren't first making sure you have a method to find the root cause, and after that a method to identify the best way to fix the root cause?

Stop throwing the kitchen sink at the problem.

If only I get my hands on the Elysium God machine.

 

[Zpol]

For your back you could try a fascia manipulation program like Functional Patterns.
For blood vessels, could you try an aspirin regimen?
Another thought is perhaps you could restore your own proteolytic enzyme functionality by taking a bovine pancreas supplement... I know this not advised by RP due to possible viruses in the animal though. Anecdotally, I was diagnosed with pancreatic insufficiency and a high need for proteolytic enzymes but didn't take them due to fear of them shredding my blood vessels and causing bleeding issues. I took the bovine pancreas instead and it definitely improved my problem and no unwanted side effects (based on my assumption that a whole food source of enzymes would be less problematic). My symptoms were different than yours however.

Also, a while back I read somewhere that the amino acid lysine can be really helpful for reversing calcification. I don't remember the source at the moment though.

 

[Peatness]

For your back you could try a fascia manipulation program like Functional Patterns.
For blood vessels, could you try an aspirin regimen?
Another thought is perhaps you could restore your own proteolytic enzyme functionality by taking a bovine pancreas supplement... I know this not advised by RP due to possible viruses in the animal though. Anecdotally, I was diagnosed with pancreatic insufficiency and a high need for proteolytic enzymes but didn't take them due to fear of them shredding my blood vessels and causing bleeding issues. I took the bovine pancreas instead and it definitely improved my problem and no unwanted side effects (based on my assumption that a whole food source of enzymes would be less problematic). My symptoms were different than yours however.

Also, a while back I read somewhere that the amino acid lysine can be really helpful for reversing calcification. I don't remember the source at the moment though.

Thank you this is helpful. I use lysine, not as much as I used to before peating but I have started using it again to balance my gelatine use.. Which bovine pancreas supplement do you suggest? I sometimes use a lypo gold by enzymedica. I can't use asprin with telmisartan it thins my blood too much. I have had fascia release done in the past. I was shedded on by an osteopath, best to avoid them at the moment. I do my own fascia release.

Sounds like a full body red light device would be good.

I have a red light device, I bruise whenever I use it and my blood pressure goes up

 

[Zpol]

. I was shedded on by an osteopath, best to avoid them at the moment

Yikes! Yeah, I've been avoiding massage therapy partly due to that reason.

Which bovine pancreas supplement do you suggest?

I use the Ancestral Supplements brand. I take 4 caps with each meal.
On a side note, some people take significantly more ( in the Gonzalez cancer protocol for example ) without issues so I believe it's a pretty safe supplement.

I personally think it's better to take these with food but some people take them on an empty stomach.

 

[Peatness]

Yikes! Yeah, I've been avoiding massage therapy partly due to that reason.

I use the Ancestral Supplements brand. I take 4 caps with each meal.
On a side note, some people take significantly more ( in the Gonzalez cancer protocol for example ) without issues so I believe it's a pretty safe supplement.

I personally think it's better to take these with food but some people take them on an empty stomach.

My credit card will be getting a good work out this week, again. Thank you.

 

[Zpol]

My credit card will be getting a good work out this week, again. Thank you

Yeah, that's how it goes sometimes.
Hoping for the best for you!

 

[yerrag]

My thought aswell, what is it specifically that scares you of enzymes?

From what i researched you need to take them away from meals for them to have a systemic effect. Alot of anecdotes about serrapaptase and nattokinase report that alot of things that happen trough them, revert after using them, both the good and the bad (like a scar thats gone, reappears after going off serrapaptase).

Which at times makes me ponder how a cell can revert back to its damaged scar state when it has a phase of being "fine" again... like a trauma memory one cannot shake off ...

I have used enzymes in the past and it worked very well to reduce sores. Wobenzym N is one favorite.

But what makes it free from side effects is that it contains low enzyme dosage.

Nowadays enzymes are about high enzyme power. So much so that even Dr. Wong likes to brag about this fact about his enzyme.

It's a nice safeature marketing approach, for the biggest bang for the buck crowd, but not necessarily in the best interest of one's health.

As far as I know, too much enzymes can lyse off too much plaque from blood vessels. The most stealthily destructive effect of that is that it creates a steady source of bacteria from the plaque biofilm that becomes a chronic source of infection, and it taxes the immune system, and it causes chronic oxidative stress which causes high blood pressure.

So, really, you should fear these systemic enzymes. Especially those 'super powerful' ones.

You may say that not all people have plaques that contain bacterial biofilm, and that may be true, but how do you know you're free from such plaque?

Just like any business,.enzyme makers will say anything short of being sued.

They will say enzymes have no side effects, no matter how much you take.

They will keep finding new uses for their product. In one of his COVID podcasts, Dr. Wong even recommended the use of enzymes to lyse off the mucosal crud from the arteries of the lungs. I don't know if that will work, but I thought it strange that it could do the job of an antioxidant better, in converting the clumpy GSSG disulfide bonds to the soft and free flowing GSH sulfhydryl bonds.

 

[belcanto]

For your back you could try a fascia manipulation program like Functional Patterns.
For blood vessels, could you try an aspirin regimen?
Another thought is perhaps you could restore your own proteolytic enzyme functionality by taking a bovine pancreas supplement... I know this not advised by RP due to possible viruses in the animal though. Anecdotally, I was diagnosed with pancreatic insufficiency and a high need for proteolytic enzymes but didn't take them due to fear of them shredding my blood vessels and causing bleeding issues. I took the bovine pancreas instead and it definitely improved my problem and no unwanted side effects (based on my assumption that a whole food source of enzymes would be less problematic). My symptoms were different than yours however.

Also, a while back I read somewhere that the amino acid lysine can be really helpful for reversing calcification. I don't remember the source at the moment though.

Interesting - tetracycline + chelator helps: Calcification in coronary artery disease can be reversed by EDTA-tetracycline long-term chemotherapy - PubMed

 

[belcanto]

For your back you could try a fascia manipulation program like Functional Patterns.
For blood vessels, could you try an aspirin regimen?
Another thought is perhaps you could restore your own proteolytic enzyme functionality by taking a bovine pancreas supplement... I know this not advised by RP due to possible viruses in the animal though. Anecdotally, I was diagnosed with pancreatic insufficiency and a high need for proteolytic enzymes but didn't take them due to fear of them shredding my blood vessels and causing bleeding issues. I took the bovine pancreas instead and it definitely improved my problem and no unwanted side effects (based on my assumption that a whole food source of enzymes would be less problematic). My symptoms were different than yours however.

Also, a while back I read somewhere that the amino acid lysine can be really helpful for reversing calcification. I don't remember the source at the moment though.

Hello again - this may be what you were referring to with the lysine: https://drdach.com/Heart_Disease.html

 

[Zpol]

Hello again - this may be what you were referring to with the lysine: https://drdach.com/Heart_Disease.html

Oh yeah, that's right, it was part of the Linus Pauling protocol. Thanks

 

[Ben.]

I have used enzymes in the past and it worked very well to reduce sores. Wobenzym N is one favorite.

But what makes it free from side effects is that it contains low enzyme dosage.

Nowadays enzymes are about high enzyme power. So much so that even Dr. Wong likes to brag about this fact about his enzyme.

It's a nice safeature marketing approach, for the biggest bang for the buck crowd, but not necessarily in the best interest of one's health.

As far as I know, too much enzymes can lyse off too much plaque from blood vessels. The most stealthily destructive effect of that is that it creates a steady source of bacteria from the plaque biofilm that becomes a chronic source of infection, and it taxes the immune system, and it causes chronic oxidative stress which causes high blood pressure.

So, really, you should fear these systemic enzymes. Especially those 'super powerful' ones.

You may say that not all people have plaques that contain bacterial biofilm, and that may be true, but how do you know you're free from such plaque?

Just like any business,.enzyme makers will say anything short of being sued.

They will say enzymes have no side effects, no matter how much you take.

They will keep finding new uses for their product. In one of his COVID podcasts, Dr. Wong even recommended the use of enzymes to lyse off the mucosal crud from the arteries of the lungs. I don't know if that will work, but I thought it strange that it could do the job of an antioxidant better, in converting the clumpy GSSG disulfide bonds to the soft and free flowing GSH sulfhydryl bonds.

Good point.

And i am aware of sideeffects, especially serrapaptase has some scary stories on its belt. Such as odd skin and connective tissue changes.
What you describe there could explain Pinas experience.

 

[yerrag]

Good point.

And i am aware of sideeffects, especially serrapaptase has some scary stories on its belt. Such as odd skin and connective tissue changes.
What you describe there could explain Pinas experience.

It explains mine 3 years ago. Took enzymes to lyse plaque so as to lower bp. End up increasing it for good.

Didn't know why until last month, when I bought an O2Ring. Saw my spO2 drop each nighr.

Mad me realize that along my high bp was caused by bacteria being released from plaque. It got worse when I lyzed the plaque.

There is so much bacteria that can be inside us robbing us of energy and health each day without our knowing.

 

[haidut]

Clove Oil

That oil is 90%+ eugenol and the latter is a powerful calcium channel blocker.

My other option is big pharma calcium channel blockers :-(

So, no need to go the pharma route.

CARDIAC EFFECTS OF EUGENOL, A CALCIUM CHANNEL BLOCKER: P 254 : Journal of Hypertension

An abstract is unavailable.

journals.lww.com

However, it cannot be applied directly to skin as it is VERY irritating. It has to be diluted with oil or alcohol so that the eugenol concentration is no more than 10%, or even 5%, just to be safe.

 

[Peatness]

That oil is 90%+ eugenol and the latter is a powerful calcium channel blocker.



So, no need to go the pharma route.

CARDIAC EFFECTS OF EUGENOL, A CALCIUM CHANNEL BLOCKER: P 254 : Journal of Hypertension

An abstract is unavailable.

journals.lww.com

However, it cannot be applied directly to skin as it is VERY irritating. It has to be diluted with oil or alcohol so that the eugenol concentration is no more than 10%, or even 5%, just to be safe.

Thank you. I've been using a few drops a day, perhaps I need to increase the dose