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Pantothenic Acid (Vitamin B5) - Acne, Hormones And Safe Dosage

Discussion in 'Water-Soluble Vitamins' started by Belsazar, May 21, 2016.

  1. Belsazar

    Belsazar Member

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    Im currently on Vitamin B5 (2x 500mg daily of calcium pantothenate) to reduce acne as it is in medical literature described. Despite it is claimed as an safe supplement (see below) it is known in acne boards all over the web that it can induce hairloss in high doses. Therefore Im wondering what would be a safe dosage in "peat context"? Did anyone ever asked him about this? Please have a look on the rat study - does this indicate that B5 may be natural way to induce progesterone secretion?

    "The results from this study indicated that the admini-stration of a pantothenic based dietary supplement in healthy human adults with mild to moderate acne vulgaris is feasi-ble, safe and well tolerated"
    "Each 4tablet dose of Pantothen contain the following ingredi-ents: thiamine—1.5 mg, riboflavin—1.7 mg, niacin—20
    mg, pyridoxine—2 mg, folic acid—400 mgc, cyanoco-balamin—6 mcg, biotin—300 mcg, pantothenic acid—
    2.2 g
    and L-carnitine—733mg"
    J. Capodice, "Feasibility, Tolerability, Safety and Efficacy of a Pantothenic Acid Based Dietary Supplement in Subjects with Mild to Moderate Facial Acne Blemishes," Journal of Cosmetics, Dermatological Sciences and Applications, Vol. 2 No. 3, 2012


    "The results from this study indicate that the administration of a pantothenic acid-based dietary supplement in healthy adults with facial acne lesions is safe, well tolerated and reduced total facial lesion count versus placebo after 12 weeks of administration. Secondary analysis shows that the study agent significantly reduced area-specific and inflammatory blemishes."
    "The dosage of the study agent or the placebo administered was two tablets taken orally, twice a day with food for 12 weeks. Each four-tablet dose of the study agent contained 2.2 g of pantothenic acid."
    Yang, M., Moclair, B., Hatcher, V., Kaminetsky, J., Mekas, M., Chapas, A., & Capodice, J. (2014). A Randomized, Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Study of a Novel Pantothenic Acid-Based Dietary Supplement in Subjects with Mild to Moderate Facial Acne. Dermatology and Therapy, 4(1), 93–101. A Randomized, Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Study of a Novel Pantothenic Acid-Based Dietary Supplement in Subjects with Mild to Moderate Facial Acne | SpringerLink


    "Adrenal cells in pantothenic acid-treated rats ex-
    hibited higher basal levels of corticosterone and progesterone than control rats. The response of ACTH and/or
    PRL on corticosterone and progesterone release was higher in the pantothenic acid-treated rats than in the con-
    trol rats. In addition, PRL increased the stimulatory effect of ACTH-induced corticosterone secretion in both
    normal and pantothenic acid-treated rats. These results clearly demonstrated that pantothenic acid supplemen-
    tation stimulates the ability of adrenal cells
    in male rats to secrete corticosterone and progesterone. Additionally,
    these results also showed that pantothenic acid supplementation induced adrenal hyperresponsiveness to ACTH
    stimulation, and PRL further stimulated adrenal sensitivity to ACTH."
    Effects of pantothenic acid supplementation on adrenal steroid secretion from male rats. (2008) Jaroenporn S1, Yamamoto T, Itabashi A, Nakamura K, Azumano I, Watanabe G, Taya K. Biol Pharm Bull. Jun;31(6):1205-8.
     
  2. Pointless

    Pointless Member

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    I admit I'm not very knowledgeable about this, but it seems like pantothenic acid increases fatty acid oxidation.

    "Pantothenic acid is used in the synthesis of coenzyme A (CoA). Coenzyme A may act as an acyl group carrier to form acetyl-CoA and other related compounds; this is a way to transport carbon atoms within the cell.[12] CoA is important in energy metabolism for pyruvate to enter the tricarboxylic acid cycle (TCA cycle) as acetyl-CoA, and for α-ketoglutarate to be transformed to succinyl-CoA in the cycle.[13] CoA is also important in the biosynthesis of many important compounds such as fatty acids, cholesterol, and acetylcholine.[13] CoA is incidentally also required in the formation of ACP,[14] which is also required for fatty acid synthesis in addition to CoA.[12]"

    Pantothenic acid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Most of those things listed about would be bad from a Ray Peat perspective.

    But other sources say it's involved in carbohydrate and protein metabolism, vitamin A and D metabolism, and steroid synthesis.

    "Pantothenic acid is a precursor in the biosynthesis of coenzyme A (CoA)

    ...

    Coenzyme A reacts with acyl groups, giving rise to thioester derivatives, such as acetyl-CoA, succinyl-CoA, malonyl-CoA, and 3-hydroxy-3-methylglutaryl (HMG)-CoA. Coenzyme A and its acyl derivatives are required for reactions that generate energy from the degradation of dietary fat, carbohydrates, and proteins. In addition, coenzyme A in the form of acetyl-CoA and succinyl-CoA is involved in the citric acid cycle, in the synthesis of essential fats, cholesterol, steroid hormones, vitamins A and D, the neurotransmitter acetylcholine, and in the fatty acid β-oxidation pathway. Coenzyme A derivatives are also required for the synthesis of the hormone, melatonin, and for a component of hemoglobin called heme. Further, metabolism of a number of drugs and toxins by the liver requires coenzyme A (4)."

    Pantothenic Acid | Linus Pauling Institute | Oregon State University

    I decided to stay away from it because it seems like a mixed bag.
     
  3. OP
    Belsazar

    Belsazar Member

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    I tried to find a few recommendations from peat himself:

    “Many women with abnormal Pap smears, even with a biopsy showing the so·called “carcinoma in situ,” have returned to normal in just two months with a diet including the following: 90 grams of protein, 500 mg. of magnesium as chloride, 100,000 units of vitamin A, 400 units of vitamin E. 5 mg. folic acid, 100 mg. pantothenic acid, 100 mg. of B6 and niacinamide, and SOD mg. of vitamin C, with progesterone and thyroid as needed. Liver should be eaten once a week, because of its high B-vitamin content. Some of the women apply vitamin A (not carotene) directly to the cervix.”

    "Some of the B vitamins, especially B2, can be very allergenic. B6 doesn't affect the others very much; 10 mg per day is a big dose.
    Its effects are usually visible immediately, or within a few days, if it's going to be helpful. It's best in general to get the B vitamins from regular foods, occasionally with liver, because supplements usually contain contaminants that can cause allergic reactions when they are used for a long time. Other B vitamins that are usually safe for occasional use are B1, niacinamide, and pantothenic acid.
    If you are getting enough of the major nutrients, including protein, calcium, and sugar, it's possible that you have a specific stress-related deficiency, for example of B6, niacinamide, or selenium. 10 mg of B6 can sometimes make a quick difference in prostate and libido, 100 mg of niacinamide can reduce some stress symptoms. Applying caffeine solution to the scalp locally helps to promote hair growth. Water and a little alcohol are convenient for applying it. [LOW LIBIDO, HAIR LOSS FOR A YOUNG MALE]"


    Also the Perfect health diet recommends 500mg B5 daily, but i couldnt find why they recommend this, - so not very useful.
     
  4. DaveFoster

    DaveFoster Member

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  5. OP
    Belsazar

    Belsazar Member

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    Thanks.

    As i thought its probably not a good idea too take it long term or in excess. But it has some potential for occasional use to calm down a bad acne breakout when alternatives like antibiotics are not available.
     
  6. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    Good point.
    Here's the guy that proposed that acne is linked to disrupted fatty acid metabolism and so vit b5 could help the condition. Even if pantothenic acid is just easing the consequences of some underlying and generalized metabolic problem, it still deserves some attention. Some people are concerned because of its involvement in fat metabolism, however it can be just increasing the efficiency of a process, not stimulating it.

    Anyway, here's what his idea is all about:
    A Stone that Kills two Birds: How Pantothenic Acid Unveils the Mysteries of Acne Vulgaris and Obesity - Lit-Hung Leung. M.D.
    "The author’s proposed hypothesis for the pathogenesis of acne vulgaris is that the disease process is not caused by androgens, or any other sex hormones. But rather, the disease process results from a defects in lipid metabolism that is secondary to a deficiency in pantothenic acid, hence Coenzyme A."

    "Facing with the dilemma of a shortage of Coenzyme A, the body will tend to make a choice that is to the best advantage of the individual. The body does by largely maintaining the functionally more important reaction, while at the same time slowing down the lesser important one. The choice here is a relatively simple one. Nature will seek to take care of the synthesis of hormones first, because continuation of the species depends on the development of the sex organs. Fatty acid metabolism is for the time being at least in part halted, Lipid in the sebaceous glands starts to accumulate, sebum excretion is increased, and acne begins to appear."

    "Any endogenous androgen synthesis will require the participation of extra amount of pantothenic acid. This will channel off some of those that are doing the work of fatty acid metabolism. Consequently, fatty acid metabolism becomes less efficient and the individual is more prone to have acne."

    "Can there be an insufficient intake of pantothenic acid resulting in a deficiency in Coenzyme A which would leave the body unable to cope with all the reactions that it has to perform with that all important coenzyme? Conventional wisdom does not think so. It is suggested that pantothenic acid, being ubiquitous, enough can be had from whatever kind of food that is taken in, and that there is no question as to its deficiency in our body. However, a deficiency is still possible. After all, when so many reactions are dependent on the same agent, its demand must be tremendous. Shortage under such circumstances is not entirely impossible."

    "It is known that ketone bodies only appear when the body is asked to catabolize a large amount of fat, as when the energy requirement of the body is largely provided by its stored fat.45,46,47 At the point where the body can no longer cope with efficiently breaking down this large amount of fat, ketone bodies appear."
    "The accumulation of any significant amount of ketone bodies in the body results in a certain degree of acidosis. To off set such acidosis, the body will try to eliminate the ketone bodies in the urine as well as in the breath. This is effectively a wastage of precious stored energy that is originally intended for emergency use."

    "The body may be able to do this for a short period of time, but with an increasing portion of the body’s energy needs provided for by fat, the call for extra Coenzyme A will sharply increase. The point will be reached in which the body will no longer be able to cope with the demand, and under these conditions the body will, within its scope of capability, try to generate more Coenzyme A to deal with the situation. The easiest way to do it is for 2 molecules of acetyl-CoA to condense to form a molecule of acetoacetyl-CoA, generating one molecule of Coenzyme A along the way. This in fact also obeys the physical law of concentration of a chemical reaction. When the concentrati on of acetyl-CoA is getting so high, the direction of the reaction will be driven towards the formation of acetoacetyl-CoA and an molecule of Coenzyme A. To provide the body with more Coenzyme A, which the body urgently needs in this state, the acetoacetyl-CoA molecule is quickly transformed into acetoacetic acid, generating another molecule of Coenzyme A in the process. This is perhaps nature’s way of handling a dire situation in which generating energy to sustain life is of overriding importance. This serial event, the author would suspect, is the basis for the generation of ketone bodies. The subsequent event, which is the loss of ketone bodies through their excretion from the kidneys and lungs, is a desperate attempt of the body to counter the acidosis following the build up of ketone bodies, as well an attempt to maintain a relatively normal pH of the body fluid. To maintain life, therefore, the body has no choice but to compromise by sacrificing some of its precious energy stores."

    That's basically the description of someone that was chronically stressed, being unable to meet the demands. Ray already wrote how adolescence is a stressful phase, and most people can't deal with the increased requirements that are typical of it. That in turn can disturb balance in a way that extra nutrients are needed for some time, even if in the case of pantothenic acid it's something available "everywhere".

    --
    By the way, here's something from the link that you shared:
    In my opinion, the whole pantothenic acid story is still not clear. It seems safe, especially in normal amounts. In a supplement it would be increasing the odds for contamination and interaction leading to instability, so I'm not sure if it justifies. On the other hand, if someone is supplementing large amounts of the other b-vits, then considering this one might be reasonable.
    I feel that this is one of those posts that I'm going to retract. If someone knows that it can be unsafe, please let me know because I'm willing to change my opinion at any time.
     
  7. DaveFoster

    DaveFoster Member

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    It may be wiser to choose foods high in these vitamins and minerals of questionable safety, and to pay less attention to the one's that are supplemented. For example, if you supplement B3 and selenium, chicken would be less essential.
     
  8. Orion

    Orion Member

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    Study suggesting B5's breakdown product or active form Pantethine, which supplies cystamine is an FFA inhibitor:

    "Pantethine is a versatile and well-tolerated hypolipidemic agent whose efficacy in this regard appears to be mediated by its catabolic product cystamine, a nucleophile which avidly attacks disulfide groups. An overview of pantethine research suggests that the hypotriglyceridemic activity of pantethine reflects cystamine-mediated inhibition of the hepatic acetyl-CoA carboxylase, which can be expected to activate hepatic fatty acid oxidation. Inhibition of HMG-CoA reductase as well as a more distal enzyme in the cholesterol synthetic pathway may account for pantethine’s hypocholesterolemic effects. If pantethine does indeed effectively inhibit hepatic acetyl-CoA carboxylase, it may have adjuvant utility in the hepatothermic therapy of obesity. As a safe and effective compound of natural origin, pantethine merits broader use in the management of hyperlipidemias."

    Inhibition of acetyl-CoA carboxylase by cystamine may mediate the hypotriglyceridemic activity of pantethine - ScienceDirect


    New acne research on blocking sebum production(same function that B5 provides), via inhibiting Acetyl Coenzyme A (CoA) Carboxylase (ACC)

    Inhibition of Sebum Production with the Acetyl Coenzyme A Carboxylase Inhibitor Olumacostat Glasaretil. - PubMed - NCBI
     
  9. Fisherman94

    Fisherman94 Member

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  10. Orion

    Orion Member

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    Agreed it works somewhat, but in long run makes you worse off. It seems to act like Fin, Progestins and Accutane in that it causes some type of progesterone dominance.

    These two post, show what helped me post accutane and mega B5:

    Weight Gain On Low, Low Pufa

    Weight Gain On Low, Low Pufa
     
  11. Dave Clark

    Dave Clark Member

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    What is the definition here of 'megadose'? Ten grams is over the top, however, many life extension enthusiasts have used pantothenic acid in doses of one gram or less per day with no problems. Not saying it is necessary to use that much, but never heard of side effect issues with less than a gram/day dosages.
     
  12. EIRE24

    EIRE24 Member

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    You have used pantothentic acid to eliminate acne also?
     
  13. Dave Clark

    Dave Clark Member

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    No, I was just inquiring about what is considered megadose. I have been using B5 for 30 years at the dosage of between 500 and 1000mg/day with no problems. I would agree that 10 grams/day is more than what someone should take, even if they are trying to cure acne, however, I am not an expert on the subject, I just know that B5 is fairly safe under a gram dosage.
     
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