Oxidal - Liquid Dietary Supplement For Oxidation Support

Discussion in 'IdeaLabs' started by haidut, May 8, 2015.

  1. managing

    managing Member

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    And tip it more slowly, not all at once. Rock back as soon as one drop falls and then tip forward again.
     
  2. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

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    I'm not sure how low my brain function was at the time I reported the issue but there is no problem besides needing to be quick in order to avoid the unwanted second drop from running down the dropper. The first time I used it it was one drop oral and I noticed all my muscles got tensed, since then I just started it again at lower than 1 drop but can't report back anything spectacular yet.
    haidut I think you said you use it orally (in pepsi), would a meal prevent absorption ? Ray recommends it topical, given that the area stays blue for a while and given the possible delayed benefits I experienced yesterday, could topical MB be a sort of reservoir for the day with a smoother systemic delivery (if it even achieves systemic effects)?
     
  3. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    I think taking with food absorbs fine but there is always the chance or it interacting with tyramine or some other unknown MAO-A inhibitor, so for that reason I think empty stomach is best. The studies used it on empty stomach, I think. Topical is also fine as it does take hours/days for the spot to disappear and in that time small amounts (microgram range) continue getting into the bloodstream, and Peat said microgram range mimics thyroid best. This is the same mechanism behind many hormonal patches - they keep saturating a skin area with steroids over long time.
     
  4. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

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    This reliably gives me some phlegm / mucus / post nasal drip in the back of the mouth - beginning of the throat. Any ideas why? I take half a drop away from meals once or twice during the day. Otherwise it seemed to increase energy levels and I possibly needed to take off a layer of clothes at times.
     
  5. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

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    Even topically one drip gives me those effects.
     
  6. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Understood. Would be interesting to hear if anybody else had/has the same issue. It is the first report like that we are getting. It could be allergy to the benzoic acid, but other than that I don't see what could be causing this issue.
     
  7. managing

    managing Member

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    Anything that raises metabolism does that to me at first. And then it goes away. I think it may just be evidence of a more balanced immune system finding homeostasis.
     
  8. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Thanks. What do you experience this with except MB? Thyroid, caffeine, aspirin?
     
  9. managing

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    Thyroid (cynomel/plus as well as Tyromix) and Mitolipin. Not caffeine, and I rarely take aspirin, so not sure.
     
  10. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Makes sense. I experienced the same with thyroid and vitamin E when I initially tried them.
     
  11. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

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    Interesting, so perhaps I should keep going for some time out of curiosity. I remember niacinamide made me sneeze at first, then the sneezing stopped and white coating on tongue disappeared. What I find odd with this one is that I don't have mucus/post nasal drip to start with but it appears as I use the product. The benzoic acid allergy is worth looking into, I'd need to try plain MB, I'm curious about the effects on blood pressure though, I've felt uneasy at times but have not measured BP. The fact it seems to activate old hemorrhoids issues is difficult to explain in a good light.
     
  12. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Most likely a serotonin issue, not BP. In higher doses MB did give me the same feeling and agitation is the main symptoms of high serotonin. I think this is why for most people 1mg MB is plenty, and it happens to be the most beneficial dose for the mitochondria.
     
  13. managing

    managing Member

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    Or try some benzoic acid. Lots of energy drinks and "processed" juice drinks have it. See if you react to that. More definitive than testing MB w/o BA.

    Mucus membranes seem to adjust to metabolism quite a bit. Think about how your bowels react. For me at least, lots of temporary effects.
     
  14. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

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    Ok, by uneasy I mean physically uneasy, like tensed physically in an odd way. Sorry for not being able to describe more accurately ! I have noticed that from pretty small doses, but I could try less (I do 200 mg).
    Ok. I still don't see why they would produce more mucus unless they are just helping ditching toxic stuff, but we'll see, despite the side effects I think it has potential.
     
  15. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

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    A few remarks as I keep testing it:
    It is much less obvious in its effects in the morning. However in the afternoon and early evening (which would be after lunch and after the second or third drop of the day) the effects are there. As I notice them I smell a stronger scent coming from my body, face is leaner , both mood and energy are improved and more constant. Not sure if I can keep it under 1mg for continous effects. Topically, one/two drops lasts up to 3-4 hours (rough guess) and despite the skin being smurf-like for days there are no more effects after that timeframe. I experienced heavy legs quite a few times, I think it has to do with MB.
    I can attest that chocolate and methylene blue don't make a good combination at all.
     
  16. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Thanks for the feedback. Have you ever measured blood pressure after taking MB? Also, what interaction did you notice between MB and chocolate?
     
  17. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

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    No I don't have any device to do that nor monitor blood glucose, maybe that would be a worthy investment. I just realized I should not use it more than two-three days in a row (I used it a lot the past two weeks) even under 1 mg, you said it builds up quick. Methylene Blue
    Or maybe not at all except for infrequent special treats, there are toxicity concerns besides BP:
    Adverse Effects of Methylene Blue on the Central Nervous System | Anesthesiology | ASA Publications
    "
    Discussion

    [...]We show that, while single intravascular bolus injections of MB up to 50 mg/kg did not induce important hemodynamic effects, they significantly reduced MACisoin anesthetized adult rats and initiated widespread neuronal apoptosis in the brains of these animals. In accord with these observations, electrophysiologic recordings in hippocampal organotypic cultures revealed a rapid suppression of evoked excitatory field potentials by MB, and this was associated with a dose-dependent effect of this drug on cell death. Finally, dose–response experiments in single cell neuronal cultures revealed that a 2-h-long exposure to MB at non–cell-death-inducing concentrations could still induce significant retraction of the neuronal dendritic arbor. Altogether, these results strongly suggest that MB, at clinically relevant concentrations, can indeed exert neurotoxic effects on the CNS and raise questions regarding the safety of using this drug at high doses during parathyroid gland surgery.
    [...]It is also important to note that MB may inhibit the action of nitric oxide synthase itself36 and could also inactivate nitric oxide directly, possibly through the generation of superoxide anions.37 In addition to interfering with the nitric oxide–cyclic guanosine monophosphate pathway, MB has also been shown to directly activate calcium-dependent potassium channels38 and to enhance release of noradrenaline from intracellular stores.39
    Using a combination of in vivo and in vitro experimental approaches, we found a dose-dependent neurotoxic effect of MB on the CNS. Although, to our knowledge, we provide here the first experimental demonstration that systemic administration of MB can induce neuronal death at clinically relevant concentrations, previous reports also suggest a potentially toxic effect of this drug on neural tissue.23,24,40 In these studies, MB-induced cytotoxicity seems to be mediated through the generation of oxygen free radicals, as application of oxygen radical scavenging enzymes or a decrease in oxygen partial pressure effectively reduced cell death.23,40
    In vitro models provide a useful complementary approach to in vivo animal experiments in the evaluation of potential drug-induced adverse effects on an organism.41 Hence, we used two different in vitro systems to corroborate our in vivo observations. In organotypic cultures of the hippocampus, retaining a well-preserved three-dimensional architecture of neural network, electrophysiologic recordings revealed a fast, complete, and irreversible disappearance of evoked electrical activity in less than 1 h after MB exposure. In these cultures, dose-dependent MB-induced cell death was detected as early as 2 h after exposure, with a peak effect at 24 h. Importantly, pharmacologic blockade of the nitric oxide–cyclic guanosine monophosphate pathway affected neither synaptic transmission nor cell death in this model, indicating that other molecular mechanisms might be responsible for MB-induced adverse effects on neural tissue. Given the multiple sites of action of MB, further studies are needed to elucidate this question.
    [...] In this context, an important finding of the current study was that a 2-h-long exposure of differentiated neurons in single cell neuronal cultures to low, non–cell-death-inducing concentrations of MB can still induce a significant atrophy of dendrites, including retraction of branches and elimination of branching points. Given that even minor changes in neuronal morphology have been shown to exert a significant impact on neuronal responses to stimuli,43 these results could have important functional consequences, and an essential next step should be to determine whether low concentrations of MB initiate reorganization of neuronal arbor in a more complex and physiologic environment.
    Extrapolation of our data to clinical practice requires caution. One should not underestimate the importance of interspecies differences,44 and therefore, we cannot exclude an increased sensitivity to MB in rats compared with humans. However, several lines of clinical evidence suggest that MB can exert adverse effects on the human CNS. Intrathecal administration of MB, a current diagnostic procedure in the past to visualize cerebral ventricles and to detect rhinorrhea, was reported to be associated with the development of persistent cauda equina dysfunction or even higher paraplegia a few hours after injection.45–47 More relevant to systemic administration, Nadler et al. 22 have shown that intravenous injection of 500 mg MB to healthy individuals induced mental confusion for several hours in the majority of the subjects. Descriptions made in this early report are similar to the emerging number of recent observations pointing to MB-associated encephalopathy.13–21 It is important to note that less than 10% of patients receiving high-dose MB bolus developed encephalopathy, and an association between the concomitant use of serotonin reuptake inhibitors and the development of encephalopathy was observed.13,21 Also, no CNS dysfunction was reported in patients receiving lower doses of MB to treat, e.g. , methemoglobinemia or ifosfamide-induced encephalopathy. On the other hand, MB-associated alterations in cognitive functions were also reported in subjects without concomitant use of serotonin reuptake inhibitors,22 and to our knowledge, the effect of MB administration on higher-order cognitive functions, using sophisticated neuropsychological tests, has not been studied. In light of results presented in our study, conducting such clinical trials would be of interest to initiate discussion about the risk–benefit evaluation of high-dose MB administration in the setting of parathyroid surgery."


    I did not notice the same effects with different chocolates and different days (oddly enough). The first time was after eating "toblerone", I felt a sort of fever , I did not feel particularly bad, and they were actually good signs like breathing was deeper and pulse higher, but the fever was akin to how bronchitis feels when it first starts (same area, same things felt). The other times were a lot more obvious, I ate regular chocolate and ended up with dark circles under the eyes, some brain fog (sinuses play a part in that), as well as being tired and in a rather bad mood. This only lasted a few hours.
     
  18. Drareg

    Drareg Member

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    B2/riboflavin would be a possible cause of throat issue and mucous,methylene blue is potent stuff even in one drop,I think the effect lasts for days if your in decent health to start with. The metabolic increase could deplete b vitamins in some people and b2 deficiency does cause mild issues around the throat/mouth areas,I’m not saying there needs to be a full blown deficiency for symptoms to occur.
    I know many on here got migraines from b2 but it could’ve been the dosage which was 400mg being the norm,a bit high,but my guess is methylene blue and b2 work closer together than we currently see in research?
    :2cents:
     
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