VoS Uncoupling Thread

tara

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Amazoniac said:
post 109122 But isn't the disposal of excess energy in the form of heat undesirable, at least if the person is not concerned with losing body fat?
Might have an advantage of helping keep warm, for those of us who struggle with this?
 
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tara

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Such_Saturation said:
post 109156
DaveFoster said:
post 109112
Screen_Shot_2015_11_12_at_12_57_22_AM.png

Isn't that over the LD50 for water :ss

Dave must be in the other 50%. :)
 
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Amazoniac

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tara said:
post 109490
Amazoniac said:
post 109122 But isn't the disposal of excess energy in the form of heat undesirable, at least if the person is not concerned with losing body fat?
Might have an advantage of helping keep warm, for those of us who struggle with this?
It's not a steady supply, it's a burst, a rapid release of energy. I don't thing it's beneficial even for those who have low temperatures. Seems like a waste to me, but I could be wrong..
 
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tara

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Amazoniac said:
post 109498
tara said:
post 109490
Amazoniac said:
post 109122 But isn't the disposal of excess energy in the form of heat undesirable, at least if the person is not concerned with losing body fat?
Might have an advantage of helping keep warm, for those of us who struggle with this?
It's not a steady supply, it's a burst, a rapid release of energy. I don't thing it's beneficial even for those who have low temperatures. Seems like a waste to me, but I could be wrong..

By short burst, do you mean a few hours depending on half-life of the effective supplement? I guess whether it is a waste depends on whether you are more short of fuel or of warmth?
 
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Amazoniac

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tara said:
post 109500
Amazoniac said:
post 109498
tara said:
post 109490
Amazoniac said:
post 109122 But isn't the disposal of excess energy in the form of heat undesirable, at least if the person is not concerned with losing body fat?
Might have an advantage of helping keep warm, for those of us who struggle with this?
It's not a steady supply, it's a burst, a rapid release of energy. I don't thing it's beneficial even for those who have low temperatures. Seems like a waste to me, but I could be wrong..

By short burst, do you mean a few hours depending on half-life of the effective supplement? I guess whether it is a waste depends on whether you are more short of fuel or of warmth?
This is the problem in my opinion, effective doesn't mean efficient use of energy. As I understand, if too much heat is produced in a brief period of time, it means less ATP available for steady use, because the energy is going somewhere..
 
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Ideonaut

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Such_Saturation said:
post 58675 Thyroid will make you eat more and burn more. That's the reason it's not available to the public.
I don't understand that. Don't the capitalist money-pigs want us to eat more of their crap?
 
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tara

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Amazoniac said:
post 109528 This is the problem in my opinion, effective doesn't mean efficient use of energy. As I understand, if too much heat is produced in a brief period of time, it means less ATP available for steady use, because the energy is going somewhere..
I'm not sure I've got this straight in my head yet, but ...

By effective I meant during the time it had effect, not necessarily that it was efficient.
I think in general efficiency is always relative to the parameters one is trying to optimise. So uncoupling seems to be inefficient wrt producing ATP from fuel. But maybe it is efficient wrt producing heat.

Didn't Peat say something about young people often producing ATP very inefficiently - wasting energy - and this being part of why they are so healthy? Maybe he means they can produce so much energy that they have enough spare for uncoupling/heat production?
 
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DaveFoster

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tara

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DaveFoster said:
post 109627 You guys are HILARIOUS. No, it's orange juice concetrate straight down the hatch. I average between 1 and 2 gallons of water, which varies depending on the amount of solid food at the time.
Hey, we are just going off that cronometer pic you posted that said over 9l water. But Glad to entertain. :)
You seem to be handling it fine. Some people here probably wouldn't. Most of them probably aren't downing 5000-6000 cals a day, either. And depends on climate, activity, etc, as well as BMR.
 
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tara said:
post 109628
Hey, we are just going off that cronometer pic you posted that said over 9l water. But Glad to entertain. :)
You seem to be handling it fine. Some people here probably wouldn't. Most of them probably aren't downing 5000-6000 cals a day, either. And depends on climate, activity, etc, as well as BMR.

Interesting, wikipedia claims vasopressin antagonists can treat water intoxication. Aren't those from Ray Peat's newsletter?

brumpfschmlog said:
post 109568
I don't understand that. Don't the capitalist money-pigs want us to eat more of their crap?

Well I guess if you are in famine mode you will be less rebellious, more violent against your fellow man, etc. An obese person's cells are in famine mode as well.
 
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tara

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Such_Saturation said:

I think Peat has said that in normal (whatever that is) climate conditions people typically evaporate approximately 1l water for every 1000 cals burned. So if one eats and burns 6000 cals, and takes in about 9l, that leaves about 3l to pee out. If it's particularly hot weather, or one is working extra hard, maybe more sweat and less pee. I had reason to notice quantities a while ago, and I reckon from time to time I would pee out as much as a litre on rising. If I ate and drank 3l more water than I evaporated over a day, I would probably be in trouble.

But Peat has made the point that handling excess water tends to be harder for people in hypothyroid states. My corollary to that would be that anyone who's maintaining on low calories is more likely to have such difficulty. He has made the point about water toxixcity particularly for people drinking excessive straight water beyond thirst without the benefit of accompanying electrolytes being stressful and potentially harmful. But I have not heard him object to OJ or milk on the same grounds. Many here have made the point that too much fluids from eg milk and juice wrt food can be hard on people with low metabolism, and I think I have experienced that problem too. But I don't know that the same applies to people with strong metabolisms.

I think Peat has said in some periods he has drunk at least a gallon of milk, a quart of OJ, and several cups of coffee a day. That looks like at least 6l fluids to me, probably more from other foods, esp. on days he was eating oxtail soup etc. I wouldn't recommend that to all the people who have got here by fuel deficiency, but others may be fine with it.
 
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michael94

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brandonk said:
post 109191
Amazoniac said:
Nighteyes said:
post 109127
Amazoniac said:
post 109122 But isn't the disposal of excess energy in the form of heat undesirable, at least if the person is not concerned with losing body fat?

Yeah, I have a hard time understanding that as well.. Incidentally I just noticed this quote at the top of the page.. Does anyone know why Ray mentions mitochondrial damage in connection with uncoupling - or is he referring to a different type of uncoupling?

Ray Peat wrote:
“Unsaturated oil tends to lower the blood sugar in at least three basic ways. It damages mitochondria, causing respiration to be uncoupled from energy production, meaning that fuel is burned without useful effect."
Thank you for the quote because fuel being burned without useful effect was exactly what I meant..
Here's the full quote, where Ray Peat is referring to the benefit of medium chain saturated fatty acids (which can be found in coconut oil or fractionated coconut oil):

The ability of some of the medium chain saturated fatty acids to inhibit the liver's formation of fat very likely synergizes with the pro-thyroid effect, in allowing energy to be used, rather than stored. When fat isn't formed from carbohydrate, the sugar is available for use, or for storage as glycogen. Therefore, shifting from unsaturated fats in foods to coconut oil involves several anti-stress processes, reducing our need for the adrenal hormones. Decreased blood sugar is a basic signal for the release of adrenal hormones. Unsaturated oil tends to lower the blood sugar in at least three basic ways. It damages mitochondria, causing respiration to be uncoupled from energy production, meaning that fuel is burned without useful effect. It suppresses the activity of the respiratory enzyme (directly, and through its anti-thyroid actions), decreasing the respiratory production of energy. And it tends to direct carbohydrate into fat production, making both stress and obesity more probable. For those of us who use coconut oil consistently, one of the most noticeable changes is the ability to go for several hours without eating, and to feel hungry without having symptoms of hypoglycemia.

Although Ray Peat may have been the first to identify, in passages such as this, how ketones and medium chain chain saturated fatty acids work, and their unparalleled benefit in boosting metabolism and reducing stress, he hasn't been given sufficient credit for his own seminal ideas. Instead he's been unfairly labelled an advocate for a low-fat, high-carb diet.

It would be more accurate to say that Ray Peat advocates a relatively high-fat ketone-rich diet, provided that the source of fat is highly or completely saturated.


This is an interesting view and one I am bit biased towards because I feel great on high fat/less frequent eating. I don't have enough experience with peating to say definitively if it is superior but for now it's working nicely.... Good food for thought


http://www.bulkapothecary.com/raw-ingre ... aQodzNILbQ Anyone have experience with this coconut oil? Seems like a good buy as purchasing in small quantities from health food stores is pretty expensive.
 
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piotr_zarach

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Bodybuldiers have more than a galon of water daily and another drinks so with good amounts of t3 and hard work you could be ok with that
 
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Had an amazing day I think thanks to this thread.

I've been taking about 1.5 grains of thyroid -- Tyromax and maybe 15 mcg or 20mcg of T3 (from BlueSkyPeptide) and it hasn't raised my temps or made me feel differently.

Until today.

I started with double espressos, and 2 aspirin after eggs and gelatin and branched chain aminos taurine and OJ. Then a few hours later, niacinamide and thiamine, coffee and more coffee. Lots of sugar, lots of sugar, and non fat milk, and some chocolate, and more aspirin, and more...

I ate a LOT.

And drank more coffee than EVER. And had 5 aspirin 325mg each.

AND had two brights lights on me drinking in the light. Not red lamps, broad spectrum lamps.

I felt amazing and still do. I have NEVER been more productive workwise. And NEVER crashed or felt down in the slightest. It was and is awesome.

I had a headache which is gone now. I feel incredible. It's scary really.

Maybe the thyroid is finally kicking in. Temps aren't higher, in the mid 96s now. HR may be modestly higher. But man, I feel a lot different.
 

piotr_zarach

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ecstatichamster said:
post 118051 Had an amazing day I think thanks to this thread.

I've been taking about 1.5 grains of thyroid -- Tyromax and maybe 15 mcg or 20mcg of T3 (from BlueSkyPeptide) and it hasn't raised my temps or made me feel differently.

Until today.

I started with double espressos, and 2 aspirin after eggs and gelatin and branched chain aminos taurine and OJ. Then a few hours later, niacinamide and thiamine, coffee and more coffee. Lots of sugar, lots of sugar, and non fat milk, and some chocolate, and more aspirin, and more...

I ate a LOT.

And drank more coffee than EVER. And had 5 aspirin 325mg each.

AND had two brights lights on me drinking in the light. Not red lamps, broad spectrum lamps.

I felt amazing and still do. I have NEVER been more productive workwise. And NEVER crashed or felt down in the slightest. It was and is awesome.

I had a headache which is gone now. I feel incredible. It's scary really.

Maybe the thyroid is finally kicking in. Temps aren't higher, in the mid 96s now. HR may be modestly higher. But man, I feel a lot different.

I have the same experience

:hattip It is one of the most practical thread here :)
 
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tara

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ecstatichamster said:
post 118051 And NEVER crashed or felt down in the slightest. It was and is awesome.
Hope this continues. I'll be interested if you want to update after a fortnight and month.
 
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