[Non Peat] Undermethylators, Ketogenesis

[jb116]

Hmm, apparently you missed the point but I think for the benefit of the doubt of your intelligence, we'll say you are being intentionally thick.
Nobody said anything about a mono anything-diet. The logic you presented is under question so reflect on that for a bit and then re-read what I wrote
tongue in cheek to understand what I am driving at.

 

[halken]

post 119201 Hmm, apparently you missed the point but I think for the benefit of the doubt of your intelligence, we'll say you are being intentionally thick.
Nobody said anything about a mono anything-diet. The logic you presented is under question so reflect on that for a bit and then re-read what I wrote
tongue in cheek to understand what I am driving at.

I was making jest, but your butthurt perspective was obviously blind to that.

 

[michael94]

post 119362

post 119201 Hmm, apparently you missed the point but I think for the benefit of the doubt of your intelligence, we'll say you are being intentionally thick.
Nobody said anything about a mono anything-diet. The logic you presented is under question so reflect on that for a bit and then re-read what I wrote
tongue in cheek to understand what I am driving at.

I was making jest, but your butthurt perspective was obviously blind to that.

If you are going to make claims like you have, you would do well to try and substantiate those claims. Whether you're right or not is secondary to how you present an alternative view. Insults get us nowhere, even if your intentions are benign. We are all here because we are sick, we want to get better and move on with our lives.

 

[lvysaur]

These stimulate all neurotransmitters including inhibitory, whereas calcium/glutamate only stimulate and deplete the excitatory neurotransmitters in order to provide cell energy to dieing cells.

Can you explain this concept more? The concept of excitatory neurotransmitters, glutamate, and their role in "providing energy" to the cell?

I have experienced both immensely positive and immensely negative effects from consuming lots of glutamate.

 

[DaveFoster]

Any thread that goes beyond 50 posts ends up in flame wars.

 

[kineticz]

Can you explain this concept more? The concept of excitatory neurotransmitters, glutamate, and their role in "providing energy" to the cell?

I have experienced both immensely positive and immensely negative effects from consuming lots of glutamate.

Basically, they stimulate norephiprene, as it's a signal the cell is dieing. Cell life is intensely shortened by calcium without magnesium to pump it back out. Calcium, as in bone, is a very structural mineral, and not suitable for cell permeability.

 

[lvysaur]

Basically, they stimulate norephiprene, as it's a signal the cell is dieing. Cell life is intensely shortened by calcium without magnesium to pump it back out.

Are you sure norepinephrine is bad?

For a month now, I've been on a very "inhibitory" diet consisting of mostly dairy, but with a lot of bananas (magnesium), and some chicken. I was supplementing with K2, D, and incandescent light. I felt extremely calm and free of anxiety, but I was not energetic. I was very warm in temperature.

One week ago, I ate several high glutamate meals (miso paste in boiling water). Immediately after the first meal, I had a very high drive to get things done, to succeed, and to act. However, I also had very low anxiety, high confidence, high selfishness, and I was very unemotional (lack of empathy, lack of care and appreciation). I was not jittery or twitchy.

This feeling has persisted.

From wikipedia: In the brain, norepinephrine increases arousal and alertness, promotes vigilance, enhances formation and retrieval of memory, and focuses attention; it also increases restlessness and anxiety. In the rest of the body, norepinephrine increases heart rate and blood pressure, triggers the release of glucose from energy stores

This accurately describes how I've been feeling for the last week. When it says "release of glucose from energy stores", does it mean liver glycogen? Or glycogen in other cells? or some other energy storage form I'm not aware of?

 

[tara]

Are you sure norepinephrine is bad?

When you need it you need it. Increase energy available and alertness for fight or flight situations. Or to get your sugar levels up to normal when hungry. Pro-survival in the short term.
Chronically elevated levels compensating for reduced base metabolism can contribute to trouble.

When it says "release of glucose from energy stores", does it mean liver glycogen? Or glycogen in other cells? or some other energy storage form I'm not aware of?

Yes from liver glycogen. Muscles also store glycogen for use by muscles only.

 

[kineticz]

It's not that norephiprene is bad, it's more so that it becomes dominant when the cell is failing to recycle energy. It's the calcium that's bad.

 

[kineticz]

The main problems people are having are caused by insulin, the liver needs zinc, potassium and a reduction in ammonia to properly synthesise glutathione and recycle ATP, keeping phosphates and free calcium down.

Anyone having issues with sugar are chronically depleting their liver detoxification system in this way.

 

[kineticz]

The sweet spot is what everyone is searching for, but from my perspective it's simple. You methylate properly you keep the heart happy and protect the myelin sheath, in turn the kidneys are happy and retain sodium, this aldosterone goes down, progesterone goes up.

ATP cysteine and B5 produce cholesterol for progesterone. Then l-serine converts progesterone into DHEA, androstenione and testosterone. It's no co-incidence that all the liver methylation nutrients directly overlap those required for balanced adrenal hormone activity, to prevent weight gain, hair loss, mood swings.

l-serine, zinc, copper, potassium, magnesium, cysteine are all both methylation and adrenal hormone nutrients that centrally protect NADH, the glutathione recycling state, and the ATP/progesterone sweet spot.

Problems with sugar are problems with the remethylation side of homocysteine. This makes the heart retain water, arginine and vasopressin, at the loss of all your electrolytes.

When electrolytes are not retained, aldosterone goes up, progesterone goes down, resulting in reduced thyroxine and increased prolactin.

 

[kineticz]

When the liver collapses due to chronic high insulin, stomach acid and lower gut ATP tank, resulting in anemia and malnutrition.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

When the liver collapses due to chronic high insulin, stomach acid and lower gut ATP tank, resulting in anemia and malnutrition.

The main problems people are having are caused by insulin, the liver needs zinc, potassium and a reduction in ammonia to properly synthesise glutathione and recycle ATP, keeping phosphates and free calcium down.

Anyone having issues with sugar are chronically depleting their liver detoxification system in this way.

I can agree with this...but I don't think I ever heard an answer to my earlier questions. Of course they were posted right during the forum changeover and it took me a while to find things and I still have got caught up....at any rate, per your undermethylation thread, is that the protocol where you take hemp oil/b6/magnesium, er something? Why not just eat some walnuts?

But really my question is this: You say the brain is filled with PUFA and we know those fats oxidize very easily, couldn't that contribute to brain problems and therefore the rest of the cascade of events? Can poor glucose regulation be due to brain inflammation from oxidized PUFA?

 

[tara]

It's the calcium that's bad.

It's the calcium in the wrong place that's trouble (eg excess calcium inside cells). Calcium in the right places is supportive.

 

[kineticz]

It's the calcium in the wrong place that's trouble (eg excess calcium inside cells). Calcium in the right places is supportive.

Intracellular magnesium is almost always low in everyone.

Lowering phosphates keeps calcium in bone.

 

[kineticz]

We're making the same argument but you're misinterpreting it simply to mount a defense. Not very helpful or wise.

 

[kineticz]

Zinc and niacin are supportive, calcium is not. Calcium is structural. Big difference.

 

[tara]

Intracellular magnesium is almost always low in everyone.

Lowering phosphates keeps calcium in bone.

Wouldn't surprise me if this is common.

We're making the same argument but you're misinterpreting it simply to mount a defense. Not very helpful or wise.

I was responding to your broad statement that calcium is bad because I believe it is incorrect. I don't see anything particularly wise about making a general negative statement about one of the major minerals required for human health. If people don't eat sufficient calcium to maintain metabolism, the body takes it out of the bones.

Zinc and niacin are supportive, calcium is not. Calcium is structural. Big difference.

There I was thinking structure was fairly important for support.
No argument with the need for some zinc and at least some form of B3.

 

[Elephanto]

Treating magnesium like Peat treats calcium is my personal answer. His answer to calcification is raising calcium intake, another method is increasing magnesium. He lowers parathyroid by increasing calcium, magnesium in high dose also inhibit parathyroid hormone and it's also easy to greatly lower phosphate intake just by excluding milk (and red meat, legumes, grains etc) . Calcium intake is linked to higher risk of prostate cancer, magnesium shows the opposite. Magnesium prevent every calcium-activated, nitric-0xide activated diseases, dietary calcium doesn't but keeping it in store with vit k, vit d, mag, maybe boron do. Only thing calcium has for itself is its ability to increase metabolism. I think in a perfect world where one is never stressed and does everything Peaty, calcium isn't a problem but in all cases high magnesium will always be supportive whereas calcium can go both ways.

 

[Strongbad]

I believe that calcium has a role in our body but milk has extremely unbalanced calcium-magnesium ratio, somewhere in 10 to 1 which is way too much calcium. I read somewhere that a good calcium-magnesium is around 2 to 1.

I get all my calcium from cooked green leafy vegetables. They also contain lots of magnesium and vitamin K which is great. I haven't supplemented myself with vitamin K for awhile now after adding lots of green vegetables in my meals.