[Non Peat] Undermethylators, Ketogenesis

[Brian]

I got those, too and also accelerated aging.

It seems that I've aged at least 5-10 times faster after I start Peating. More wrinkles, more rugged, worn-out textures and skin marks including loss of elasticity and smoothness. I used to be a baby face dude before Peating in my very low carb diet days. Now no more. I look like a very old man now.

I don't know if it's high cortisol, insulin resistance, high estrogen or what. But something about the Peating regimen really messes my body up so bad from inside out, accelerating degenerative process.

No vegetables + lots of sugar/fruits/oj + lots of milk + lots of coffee = DISASTER

I think a lot of the "aged look" is due to soft tissue calcium. I've heard older people mention how magnesium and K2 eventually gave them much more skin elasticity and smoothness. It sounds like you are on a good track now for reversing that. You should be able to get back a more youthful appearance if you keep it up.

I completely agree that magnesium is overlooked and misunderstood by the Peat community. It may not be enough just to supplement it, you may need to drop nearly all dairy for a very long time before your magnesium is fully replenished.

I also think there's usually no need to worry about calcium deficiency if you have high soft tissue calcium. As you push it out with magnesium and K2 some of it should be utilized for teeth and bones. I could taste a high amount of calcium in my saliva as I began this process, although my calcium intake was only from a small amount of green vegetables.

 

[HDD]

http://wiki.raypeatforum.com/index.php/ ... _Exchanges

Magnesium

Getting enough sodium in the diet helps to retain magnesium, but both of them are lost easily when thyroid function is low; when the thyroid status is good, the requirement for magnesium is easily met by ordinary foods. The things I most often recommend for magnesium are the water from boiling greens such as beet, chard, turnip and kale, and coffee. Magnesium carbonate is a very good supplement, except that it can cause intestinal irritation. People tell me that they don't have bowel irritation from magnesium glycinate. Either Mg chloride or Mg sulfate with baking soda can be absorbed through the skin.

Both carbonate and glycine are beneficial in themselves, but each of the compounds has its own impurities. Supplements of citrate have other effects on metabolism, that could be harmful.

I haven't tried magnesium salicylate, but most magnesium compounds have been seriously irritating to my intestine; I have mixed baking soda with salicylic acid, and it seems similar to aspirin. If the magnesium doesn't cause irritation, it would be a good form of salicylate. Magnesium salicylate is popular for arthritis, and it releases salicylic acid in the intestine and blood.

Cooked green leaves, or the water they were boiled in, is a very good source of magnesium, with other minerals in safe ratio. Coffee is another good magnesium source.Over 72 trace minerals from the Great Salt Lake, with 99% of the salt removed, would be dirty salt, without the salt.

I don't recommend the oxide, because it's very poorly absorbed, but the carbonate is well absorbed. I don't recommend chemical supplements of magnesium, though, because they all contain some manufacturing impurities that can cause bowel inflammation, such as hemorrhoids. Well cooked greens are very good sources, coffee and chocolate are, too.

[RDA for magnesium] With the average diet, that amount is enough. Good thyroid function, and plenty of calcium, potassium, and sodium can decrease the amount of magnesium needed.

 

[tara]

Thanks HDD. :)

 

[tara]

post 118970 I used to be a baby face dude before Peating in my very low carb diet days. Now no more. I look like a very old man now.

I don't know if it's high cortisol, insulin resistance, high estrogen or what. But something about the Peating regimen really messes my body up so bad from inside out, accelerating degenerative process.

Or possibly also partly a consequence of the preceding low carb period.

post 118971 Unfortunately, magnesium is under-emphasized in Ray Peat community. Quickly stroll around in this forum and you'll find these food being mentioned around out a lot: orange juice, sugar, milk, gelatin, thyroid supplement / NDT, ice cream. Wash, rinse, repeat.

I recommend people read/listen to Peat directly, and not rely on some sample of posts in this or any forum to present his views in a completely accurate and balanced way. You'll find all sorts of emphases here depending on the parts that seem most useful to particular posters. I also don't think you can read a thousand posts here and assume it represents what the the whole 'Ray Peat community' thinks.

post 118990 Also nobody here is interested in B12.

There are a number of posts discussing B12.

 

[FredSonoma]

I think I agree about jumping to quickly into pounding Calcium and not worrying about Magnesium. Recently I've been only drinking milk if it's chocolate milk, and it seems to be helping (I just add cocoa powder and sugar myself and shake. Tastes great.)

 

[James_001]

post 118995

What foods do you suggest for lowering liquid intake and boosting magnesium?

Rice, good quality bread, potatoes. Beef, eggs, green vegetables. Lots of salt with every meal and any magnesium supplement that works well along vitamin A and K2. I prefer magnesium glycinate, bicarbonate, and magnesium chloride baths. This is the diet that increased my metabolism. Just blindly pounding high calcium doesn't seem to benefit a lot of people. It seems that many people need to build up their magnesium (and often zinc) before increasing their calcium. It might take a long time get rid of soft tissue calcium and replace with it magnesium. Under those conditions people seem to do much better on higher calcium and get the benefits Peat talks about.

How much k2? thanks

 

[Brian]

How much k2? thanks

I personally like Life Extension Super K. One per day. I'm sure there are other effective dosages and forms though.

 

[CoolTweetPete]

post 119031

How much k2? thanks

I personally like Life Extension Super K. One per day. I'm sure there are other effective dosages and forms though.

I can echo that this is an outstanding supplement. Been using it for years.

 

[Nicholas]

post 119000 I think a lot of the "aged look" is due to soft tissue calcium. I've heard older people mention how magnesium and K2 eventually gave them much more skin elasticity and smoothness. It sounds like you are on a good track now for reversing that. You should be able to get back a more youthful appearance if you keep it up.

I completely agree that magnesium is overlooked and misunderstood by the Peat community. It may not be enough just to supplement it, you may need to drop nearly all dairy for a very long time before your magnesium is fully replenished.

I also think there's usually no need to worry about calcium deficiency if you have high soft tissue calcium. As you push it out with magnesium and K2 some of it should be utilized for teeth and bones. I could taste a high amount of calcium in my saliva as I began this process, although my calcium intake was only from a small amount of green vegetables.

I've done a very low dairy experiment for the past month. Well, not in isolation. During this time i started putting coconut oil in my coffee. I also began eating more grains like occasional pasta, bread, and oats. I've done vegetables for over 6mo. now (collards, occasional cruciferous vegetables, etc.) I've also been chewing my food really well lately. I'm doing slightly more topical K2 than before (i smear it all over my face).. The mild gynecomastia that i had even before Peating has been rapidly going away. My whole body composition seems a lot healthier - i look less baby-faced. the "stubborn" weight is coming off me - i had this weird back fat and it's basically gone now. The degenerative state i was in, which i blame mostly on life stress, and which created early signs of roasacea and broken capillaries on my face...all of that inflammation is gone. I know that the improvements have been from chewing my food better, getting less dairy calcium, and something about the coconut oil which has been very protective.

Question on Magnesium: I've done Epsom baths for over 3mo. now and i found this helped me a lot. But then i read that Epsoms aren't as good as Magnesium Chloride. So i've been doing Mag Chloride baths for over a week now and i can't really tell much....it's not relaxing like the Epsom....in fact, it's almost stimulating. Are you aware of any relationship with this soft tissue calcium and magnesium problems?

 

[Brian]

Question on Magnesium: I've done Epsom baths for over 3mo. now and i found this helped me a lot. But then i read that Epsoms aren't as good as Magnesium Chloride. So i've been doing Mag Chloride baths for over a week now and i can't really tell much....it's not relaxing like the Epsom....in fact, it's almost stimulating. Are you aware of any relationship with this soft tissue calcium and magnesium problems?

My understanding is that excessive soft tissue calcium is a symptom of overall low magnesium, which is usually accompanied by low intracellular magnesium as well, causing low ATP. It's just pure physics and chemistry at work I believe. Mg 2+ ion has a higher electronegativity than a Ca 2+ ion. Magnesium=1.31, Calcium=1.00

 

[extremecheddar]

What do you guys thinks of Hair mineral analysis and using it to understand calcium status in the body?

 

[Brian]

post 119090 What do you guys thinks of Hair mineral analysis and using it to understand calcium status in the body?

I've never done it. Most of the practitioners seem pretty sketchy. Dr. Garrett Smith clients seems to get results though. His approach involves manipulating mineral balance manually based off hair mineral analysis as opposed to Peat's approach of using exogenous thyroid to immediately energize the cell. I think both are good techniques that get results, but one may be more suitable in some circumstances.

 

[halken]

My whole body composition seems a lot healthier - i look less baby-faced.

This is because milk confuses your body into thinking it's a baby again.

 

[kineticz]

post 119082

Question on Magnesium: I've done Epsom baths for over 3mo. now and i found this helped me a lot. But then i read that Epsoms aren't as good as Magnesium Chloride. So i've been doing Mag Chloride baths for over a week now and i can't really tell much....it's not relaxing like the Epsom....in fact, it's almost stimulating. Are you aware of any relationship with this soft tissue calcium and magnesium problems?

My understanding is that excessive soft tissue calcium is a symptom of overall low magnesium, which is usually accompanied by low intracellular magnesium as well, causing low ATP. It's just pure physics and chemistry at work I believe. Mg 2+ ion has a higher electronegativity than a Ca 2+ ion. Magnesium=1.31, Calcium=1.00

Well said.

Guys, my account has been limited, IF they allow this reply then I hope you all make progress in rebooting cell maintenance so that you can tolerate more calories.


My view is that the negative effects from starting Peat are not due to low carb, they're due to low anti-oxidant status and NADH regeneration. These are much more safely fixed and do not require a high carb intake.

 

[Nicholas]

post 119100

My whole body composition seems a lot healthier - i look less baby-faced.

This is because milk confuses your body into thinking it's a baby again.

more specifically, it confuses your body into thinking it's a calf.

 

[halken]

Exactly.

 

[jb116]

yea exactly.
I was eating kale and it tricked my body into thinking I was a horse so I drink milk now.

 

[halken]

Sorry to hear that your endocrine system suffers from retardation.

 

[jb116]

On the contrary, I have helped myself out of chronic illness with milk.

 

[halken]

I think anything would help one's chronic illness from a mono kale-diet.