Need Help Desperate: Need To Force Bowel Movement. Serious Constipation

[James IV]

Your suggesting he go back to the semi-starvation diet he was eating before? I think he's only in recent months been managing to get it over 200o regularly. I'd like to know how many days in the last month mwk's managed to eat normal calories (eg over 3000). My guess is the opposite to yours. :) I'm not discounting your idea that eating more could be stressing some systems - I imagine that could happen too.

You cannot

For people who have been chronically starving, as far as I know eating more is exactly what is needed to recover. Notwithstanding that it usually does entail gaining some fat. Maybe that's avoidable for some people, but I wouldn't assume it is for all.

I must respectfully disagree. There is no phisiological need to gain bodyfat to heal your metabolism, unless you were underweight to begin with. If you are gaining fat it's because you are consuming beyond your current metabolic capacity, and you need to go slower with your refeeding, allowing your metabolism to keep up. Energy being stored as fat is not being used for healing.

 

[tara]

There is no phisiological need to gain bodyfat to heal your metabolism, unless you were underweight to begin with.

I don't know how you assess whether or not someone is underweight, unless it is at the very extreme end. IIRC, mwk was pretty thin. And living on under 200o cals for along time.

 

[mayweatherking]

I must respectfully disagree. There is no phisiological need to gain bodyfat to heal your metabolism, unless you were underweight to begin with. If you are gaining fat it's because you are consuming beyond your current metabolic capacity, and you need to go slower with your refeeding, allowing your metabolism to keep up. Energy being stored as fat is not being used for healing.

I don't know how you assess whether or not someone is underweight, unless it is at the very extreme end. IIRC, mwk was pretty thin. And living on under 200o cals for along time.

I was on thyroid, I started gaining the weight after I got off thyroid because I didn't know if it was helping or hurting me for what it's worth.

 

[James IV]

I don't know how you assess whether or not someone is underweight, unless it is at the very extreme end. IIRC, mwk was pretty thin. And living on under 200o cals for along time.

Yes. You are right. I don't mean to imply I know what an individual's healthy weight is. But generally healthy young males don't carry much belly fat.

I'll say it again, Check your glucose. The information can only help.

 

[tara]

If you are gaining fat it's because you are consuming beyond your current metabolic capacity, and you need to go slower with your refeeding, allowing your metabolism to keep up.

I think this may be possible, at least for some people, but I don't think it is established as generally true for everyone in this situation.
If your metabolism has downregulated severely to adapt to semi-starvation, then consistently eating more than current metabolic capacity may be exactly the signal the body needs to allow the metabolism to upregulate again. I believe Keyes Minnesota semi-starvation experiment demonstrated that recovery did not generally occur well until calories were brought up quite high (~4000 cals IIRC), regardless of micronutrient supplements. IIRC, mwk was eating close to the order of the starvation phase. Keyes subjects probably weren't trying to avoid starch.
I believe there are a couple of potential risks with the slow approach too. One is prolonging the energy deficit. Some healing may never get underway until there really is enough energy on a reliable basis. Ie enough to meet needs for recovery, not just maintenance of current depleted state. Another is increasing the risk of relapsing to undereating.

Energy being stored as fat is not being used for healing.

Since it seems to be a normal phase of recovery from severe undereating, and there are at least plausible if not proven explanations for why this happens, it seems possible that it is a part of healing. How do you know it's not?

But generally healthy young males don't carry much belly fat.

Yes, but healthy young males are not recovering from starvation.

I have concerns about the restricted nature of mwk's diet - not sure that it includes enough variety to cover all needs.

 

[James IV]

I was on thyroid, I started gaining the weight after I got off thyroid because I didn't know if it was helping or hurting me for what it's worth.

If you were eating the same amount and not gaining weight,
It was likely helping. The energy was going where it was supposed to.

I think this may be possible, at least for some people, but I don't think it is established as generally true for everyone in this situation.
If your metabolism has downregulated severely to adapt to semi-starvation, then consistently eating more than current metabolic capacity may be exactly the signal the body needs to allow the metabolism to upregulate again. I believe Keyes Minnesota semi-starvation experiment demonstrated that recovery did not generally occur well until calories were brought up quite high (~4000 cals IIRC), regardless of micronutrient supplements. IIRC, mwk was eating close to the order of the starvation phase. Keyes subjects probably weren't trying to avoid starch.
I believe there are a couple of potential risks with the slow approach too. One is prolonging the energy deficit. Some healing may never get underway until there really is enough energy on a reliable basis. Ie enough to meet needs for recovery, not just maintenance of current depleted state. Another is increasing the risk of relapsing to undereating.

Since it seems to be a normal phase of recovery from severe undereating, and there are at least plausible if not proven explanations for why this happens, it seems possible that it is a part of healing. How do you know it's not?


Yes, but healthy young males are not recovering from starvation.

I have concerns about the restricted nature of mwk's diet - not sure that it includes enough variety to cover all needs.

I don't know mayweathers history, how much he was eating, for how long etc. And unless he was strictly weight and recording all food, likely neither does he. I work with folks on nutrition and they are ALWAYS wrong when estimating calories. The MSE is an extreme example to base a real life scenario on.

Overeating has been a major cause of degradation in human health since the beginning of recorded history. Even before PUFA, and processed foods, etc. Diabetes and obesity used to be a sign of wealth. I used to not understand this but nutrition is far more important that a random assignment calories. Look at the Irish potato famine. People were eating much less, but the health markers of the population improved greatly. The greater the high quality carbohydrate content of the diet is, the more efficient it will be. A good diet requires less calories, not more. Look at the caloric intakes of indigionous cultures. As the carbohydrate ratio increases, the total calories decrease. The only reason Dr Peat can handle so many calories is that he uses uncouplers like lots of caffiene and thyroid. If you are not using these, your caloric requirements will be drastically lower.

Balance is absolutely needed. But if you are showing all the signs of being overfed, then continuing to overfeed or overfeeding harder, seems like an ill conceived approach to me.

 

[mayweatherking]

If you were eating the same amount and not gaining weight,
It was likely helping. The energy was going where it was supposed to.


I don't know mayweathers history, how much he was eating, for how long etc. And unless he was strictly weight and recording all food, likely neither does he. I work with folks on nutrition and they are ALWAYS wrong when estimating calories. The MSE is an extreme example to base a real life scenario on.

Overeating has been the cause of degradation in human health since the beginning of recorded history. Even before PUFA, and processed foods, etc. Diabetes and obesity used to be a sign of wealth.

Balance is absolutely needed. But if you are showing all the signs of being overfed, then continuing to overfeed or overfeeding harder, seems like an ill conceived approach to me.

i actually never gained weight my entire life, ive always been skinny, after thyroid, then the weight started to pack on. ive always been like 140 for the longest time i bumped up to 150 i think after peating for a few months, then i jumped into a massive 170.. i think i might be bigger now, maybe 180, im not sure though.

i dont know though, i havent really done that good under eating, my scalp always gets itchy and ive been feeling better lately, but i really odnt know about the diabetes thing to be honest with you

 

[mayweatherking]

If you were eating the same amount and not gaining weight,
It was likely helping. The energy was going where it was supposed to.


I don't know mayweathers history, how much he was eating, for how long etc. And unless he was strictly weight and recording all food, likely neither does he. I work with folks on nutrition and they are ALWAYS wrong when estimating calories. The MSE is an extreme example to base a real life scenario on.

Overeating has been a major cause of degradation in human health since the beginning of recorded history. Even before PUFA, and processed foods, etc. Diabetes and obesity used to be a sign of wealth. I used to not understand this but nutrition is far more important that a random assignment calories. Look at the Irish potato famine. People were eating much less, but the health markers of the population improved greatly.

Balance is absolutely needed. But if you are showing all the signs of being overfed, then continuing to overfeed or overfeeding harder, seems like an ill conceived approach to me.

it is really odd though i need a massive amount of calories to start feeling my libido again... like a lot a lot a lot............... i'ts pretty interesting... i wonder if it is diabetes....... but i dont think so because i have post finasteride syndrome........... it is normal to not have libido from it, its something with high estrogen or something with constipration... i dk. i bought the sugar monitor but it doesnt work piece of crap, i have to return it and buy another tomorrow.

 

[James IV]

i actually never gained weight my entire life, ive always been skinny, after thyroid, then the weight started to pack on. ive always been like 140 for the longest time i bumped up to 150 i think after peating for a few months, then i jumped into a massive 170.. i think i might be bigger now, maybe 180, im not sure though.

i dont know though, i havent really done that good under eating, my scalp always gets itchy and ive been feeling better lately, but i really odnt know about the diabetes thing to be honest with you

Please let me say this again. I am not telling you to undereat. If you have excess abdominal fat (which likely means liver fat), and you have a blood glucose level 2-3-4-5 times higher than it should be, then you can eat drastically less food for days, possibly weeks and still NOT be undereating. In fact, if your body is insulin resistant, you may be undereating now. The fat and glucose sitting unused in your body, is no different than the fat and glucose going in your mouth.

 

[m_arch]

Please let me say this again. I am not telling you to undereat. If you have excess abdominal fat (which likely means liver fat), and you have a blood glucose level 2-3-4-5 times higher than it should be, then you can eat drastically less food for days, possibly weeks and still NOT be undereating. In fact, if your body is insulin resistant, you may be undereating now. The fat and glucose sitting unused in your body, is no different than the fat and glucose going in your mouth.

What should the blood glucose level be?

 

[tara]

And unless he was strictly weight and recording all food, likely neither does he. I work with folks on nutrition and they are ALWAYS wrong when estimating calories.

I believe you that people usually are not good at estimating calories. Studies have shown that people on average tend to underestimate how much they eat. (Except people who are struggling with restrictive eating, who more often overestimate.)

The MSE is an extreme example to base a real life scenario on.

The average calories for the subjects during the starvation phase was around 1600 cals.
I can't attest to the accuracy of mwk's reports about calories, but IIRC his food list looked meager, and his reports were around 1700. And said it was hard to eat as much as 2500 a few months ago. There haven't been many precise reports.
I figure any young man eating under 1800 cals is close to the starvation phase of the MSE, esp. if they've been doing it for many months. I think some people's real life scenarios are pretty extreme.

The point I wanted to make was that for a number of those experimental subjects, eating above current maintenance was not enough to get recovery going well - they needed more than they had been eating in the pre-starvation phase (which was around around 3200).

 

[Ukall]

"When your insulin response is off, it means that the secretion of insulin is not adequately in tune with the influx of nutrients into your blood.
This is "insulin insensitivity".
To restore insulin sensitivity properly, the insulin system needs a number of resets.
For this, no nutrients should be consumed for a couple of hours during a period in which you do need them (the nutrients).
When you do need the nutrients, but you are not getting them, the body will be alarmed ( a survival response).
That way the body clearly knows that the influx of nutrients into the blood is "0".
As a result, the body also knows exactly how much insulin should be produced in response to "0" nutrients coming in.
Any deviating secretion of insulin will therefore 'get noticed', and the body will try to correct that wrong insulin response.
If you do that often enough, the margin or error will gradually decrease, until full insulin sensitivity is restored.
To make sure you are "in need of nutrients", you first need to empty your liver glycogen, which is your spare energy (spare glucose).
Once liver glycogen is depleted, you are in need for nutrients.
Once you are in need for nutrients, you need to continue not to eat anything for a couple of hours. The latter phase is called "fasting".
Fasting exposes inadequate insulin responses, and allows for fixing that.

What causes insulin insensitivity?
More or less the opposite of the above; If you keep on consuming food once your glycogen depots are already completely filled up (about 400 kcal in the liver, and 1200 kcal in the muscles); muscle glycogen is not in the equation because muscle glycogen cannot be converted back to glucose, unlike liver glycogen.
Insulin is primarily secreted in response to glucogenic bodies (glucose, most amino acids) entering the blood from the digestive tract. It is secreted to arrange for the uptake of excess energy into depots, as spare energy. So, when extra energy is entering the blood, insulin is secreted to store it. But once the depots are full, they can take no more extra energy. And if still more energy is entering the blood, again insulin will be released, but it fails to arrange for the storage of that energy. The extra energy therefore mostly remains in the blood (until enough fatty acids are available to store the excess glucogenic bodies as glycerol in adipose tissue; in triglycerides). Because the extra energy largely remains in the blood, it again triggers the release of insulin, which again fails to store the energy. This failure will repeat itself until all excess has been stored as bodyfat (which is a relatively slow process). In the meantime, each failure (inappropriate insulin secretion) will be registered by the body, and if repeated often enough, the body will try to correct it, by adjusting the insulin response. Thus the insulin response will change; either too much or too little will be secreted in response to the nutrients coming in."

I felt like I should put this here.
mayweatherking were you undereating? You're getting all that sugar intake without enough nutrients with it. This is: it's just (empty) energy.
I don't know, even your eczema may be because of the excess sugar.
Just go to a pharmacy and ask to check your blood glucose.

 

[Bodhi]

Do an 11 day fasting/colon cleanse and combine it with the Andreaz Moritz galbladder/liver flush

Whole Body Detox and Cleanse Systems | Arise & Shine

http://www.truthkeeperz.com/andreas.moritz.-.the.amazing.liver.cleanse.pdf

While on the Aris and shine one, make broths, drink coconutwater eat fruits and drink OJ just to make sure metabolism does not go down too much... ( and make coffee enemas)

After this build up slowly towards a peat inspired diet, keep doing the carrot and cascara and make sure youre thyroid is functioning well to help bile production and peristalsis going...

Make sure you DO NOT REPLACE your colon with the pro biotics jus keep your gut sterile...

 

[Nighteyes]

"When your insulin response is off, it means that the secretion of insulin is not adequately in tune with the influx of nutrients into your blood.
This is "insulin insensitivity".
To restore insulin sensitivity properly, the insulin system needs a number of resets.
For this, no nutrients should be consumed for a couple of hours during a period in which you do need them (the nutrients).
When you do need the nutrients, but you are not getting them, the body will be alarmed ( a survival response).
That way the body clearly knows that the influx of nutrients into the blood is "0".
As a result, the body also knows exactly how much insulin should be produced in response to "0" nutrients coming in.
Any deviating secretion of insulin will therefore 'get noticed', and the body will try to correct that wrong insulin response.
If you do that often enough, the margin or error will gradually decrease, until full insulin sensitivity is restored.
To make sure you are "in need of nutrients", you first need to empty your liver glycogen, which is your spare energy (spare glucose).
Once liver glycogen is depleted, you are in need for nutrients.
Once you are in need for nutrients, you need to continue not to eat anything for a couple of hours. The latter phase is called "fasting".
Fasting exposes inadequate insulin responses, and allows for fixing that.

What causes insulin insensitivity?
More or less the opposite of the above; If you keep on consuming food once your glycogen depots are already completely filled up (about 400 kcal in the liver, and 1200 kcal in the muscles); muscle glycogen is not in the equation because muscle glycogen cannot be converted back to glucose, unlike liver glycogen.
Insulin is primarily secreted in response to glucogenic bodies (glucose, most amino acids) entering the blood from the digestive tract. It is secreted to arrange for the uptake of excess energy into depots, as spare energy. So, when extra energy is entering the blood, insulin is secreted to store it. But once the depots are full, they can take no more extra energy. And if still more energy is entering the blood, again insulin will be released, but it fails to arrange for the storage of that energy. The extra energy therefore mostly remains in the blood (until enough fatty acids are available to store the excess glucogenic bodies as glycerol in adipose tissue; in triglycerides). Because the extra energy largely remains in the blood, it again triggers the release of insulin, which again fails to store the energy. This failure will repeat itself until all excess has been stored as bodyfat (which is a relatively slow process). In the meantime, each failure (inappropriate insulin secretion) will be registered by the body, and if repeated often enough, the body will try to correct it, by adjusting the insulin response. Thus the insulin response will change; either too much or too little will be secreted in response to the nutrients coming in."

Interesting - what is the source for this? :)

 

[James IV]

The average calories for the subjects during the starvation phase was around 1600 cals.
I can't attest to the accuracy of mwk's reports about calories, but IIRC his food list looked meager, and his reports were around 1700. And said it was hard to eat as much as 2500 a few months ago. There haven't been many precise reports.
I figure any young man eating under 1800 cals is close to the starvation phase of the MSE, esp. if they've been doing it for many months. I think some people's real life scenarios are pretty extreme.

The point I wanted to make was that for a number of those experimental subjects, eating above current maintenance was not enough to get recovery going well - they needed more than they had been eating in the pre-starvation phase (which was around around 3200).

Yes. However, these numbers do not take into account macro and micro nutrition. The biggest advantage of Dr Peats dietary recommendations is that the staple foods he reccomends are low in toxins (energy draining) and high in energy (macro/micro). My understanding, is that that's kind of the main underlying theme of his work; cellular energy efficiency.
It's like if you had fuel that was 50% water, then it would take much more fuel to accomplish the same task, because half of it is just being wasted.
What you are eating is extremely important to consider when you are talking about caloric needs.

 

[cantstoppeating]

Yes. However, these numbers do not take into account macro and micro nutrition. The biggest advantage of Dr Peats dietary recommendations is that the staple foods he reccomends are low in toxins (energy draining) and high in energy (macro/micro). My understanding, is that that's kind of the main underlying theme of his work; cellular energy efficiency.
It's like if you had fuel that was 50% water, then it would take much more fuel to accomplish the same task, because half of it is just being wasted.
What you are eating is extremely important to consider when you are talking about caloric needs.

You don't need to get fat to "heal" your metabolism. I agree. And there's still a few people promoting this dogma. I find anyone who believes such does so to rationalise their own excess fat.

The bodybuilding and fitness industry have already fine tuned the practise of healing a deranged metabolism after periods of starvation. The solution is: change macronutrient composition to favour greater carbs, slowly amp up calories while monitoring weight and waist size. This solution maintains an equilibrium between energy in and out as that equilibrium shifts higher and higher i.e. towards a higher and higher metabolism.

 

[mayweatherking]

"When your insulin response is off, it means that the secretion of insulin is not adequately in tune with the influx of nutrients into your blood.
This is "insulin insensitivity".
To restore insulin sensitivity properly, the insulin system needs a number of resets.
For this, no nutrients should be consumed for a couple of hours during a period in which you do need them (the nutrients).
When you do need the nutrients, but you are not getting them, the body will be alarmed ( a survival response).
That way the body clearly knows that the influx of nutrients into the blood is "0".
As a result, the body also knows exactly how much insulin should be produced in response to "0" nutrients coming in.
Any deviating secretion of insulin will therefore 'get noticed', and the body will try to correct that wrong insulin response.
If you do that often enough, the margin or error will gradually decrease, until full insulin sensitivity is restored.
To make sure you are "in need of nutrients", you first need to empty your liver glycogen, which is your spare energy (spare glucose).
Once liver glycogen is depleted, you are in need for nutrients.
Once you are in need for nutrients, you need to continue not to eat anything for a couple of hours. The latter phase is called "fasting".
Fasting exposes inadequate insulin responses, and allows for fixing that.

What causes insulin insensitivity?
More or less the opposite of the above; If you keep on consuming food once your glycogen depots are already completely filled up (about 400 kcal in the liver, and 1200 kcal in the muscles); muscle glycogen is not in the equation because muscle glycogen cannot be converted back to glucose, unlike liver glycogen.
Insulin is primarily secreted in response to glucogenic bodies (glucose, most amino acids) entering the blood from the digestive tract. It is secreted to arrange for the uptake of excess energy into depots, as spare energy. So, when extra energy is entering the blood, insulin is secreted to store it. But once the depots are full, they can take no more extra energy. And if still more energy is entering the blood, again insulin will be released, but it fails to arrange for the storage of that energy. The extra energy therefore mostly remains in the blood (until enough fatty acids are available to store the excess glucogenic bodies as glycerol in adipose tissue; in triglycerides). Because the extra energy largely remains in the blood, it again triggers the release of insulin, which again fails to store the energy. This failure will repeat itself until all excess has been stored as bodyfat (which is a relatively slow process). In the meantime, each failure (inappropriate insulin secretion) will be registered by the body, and if repeated often enough, the body will try to correct it, by adjusting the insulin response. Thus the insulin response will change; either too much or too little will be secreted in response to the nutrients coming in."

I felt like I should put this here.
mayweatherking were you undereating? You're getting all that sugar intake without enough nutrients with it. This is: it's just (empty) energy.
I don't know, even your eczema may be because of the excess sugar.
Just go to a pharmacy and ask to check your blood glucose.

What happens to extra energy in a normal person.. ?i will go tonight to find another blood sugar checker...

But technically wouldnt a high temp show energy is getting where it should go? My temp is high.. Ive been eating honey throughout the day whenever u feel hungry.

What are the instructions exactly..just eat when you are hungry basically?

 

[jyb]

they are very hard.... my butt is actually in pain right now from it... it feels like trying to push a baby out of me.. its still stuck lol

Have you tried cascara? It will transform your baby into a tidal wave.

 

[mayweatherking]

i see what you guys are saying... the thyroid is like the engine.. but with no gasoline.. you are slowly wrecking yourself. you need gasoline. milk seems to have been really good to me. milk and magnesium seem to be very big. i found two brands of milk i can handle quite well. i notice a very positive effect from magnesium. it almost brings me coldness a little, i wonder why, but i ntoice my nipples get noticeably smaller after using magnesium. i seem to be good eating honey every 30 min or so whenever ifeel hungry, i squirt it in my mouth, then when i feel more hungry i usually use more then have some milk, then the hunger goes away, then comes again in 30 min or an hour or so...

and having nutrients with no thyroid... you are basically doing the same thing.. probably worse in that case actually.

 

[Dessert_All_Day]

Have you tried adding obnoxious amounts of salt to your food? Sorry if this has already been suggested.