Need Help Desperate: Need To Force Bowel Movement. Serious Constipation

[tara]

The difficult part is forgetting everything you think you know, and listening to your body.

+1

 

[mayweatherking]

We will all have different opinions as to what is healthy for different individuals. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything, honestly. No one knows more about a persons health than that person. The difficult part is forgetting everything you think you know, and listening to your body.
Mayweather, I have seen people in your situation, and I sympathize with your panic. I honestly just want you to feel better. How you get there is ultimately going to be your journey.
My recommendation would be to get your fasting glucose down below 80 consistently. This is going to be a matter of getting more energy out, than is coming in, until you reach your goal, in the least stressful way possible. Without getting into specifics, I would feed your body just enough high quality protein and sugar foods to get you through the day, keeping your fats very low, and remaining in a CONSUMED deficit.
If you do this long enough (days, maybe weeks) I can almost guarantee the constipation will no longer be an issue, and your mind will be much more calm allowing you to continue a rational, and reasonable journey towards optimal health.

Thanks for the tip. What would you say is the blood sugar level when stress hormones start to kick in? I agree with what you are saying and I think you are right. I am realizing now, obviously I get a negative reaction from eating a large meal, due to the massive blood sugar spike, leading towards a massive insulin response, which you say a large insulin response causes a large cortisol response. I didn't realize certain things were happening with blood sugar so much.

I just want to know where to start eating at, like at what blood sugar level would your stress hormones kick in to start providing you with sugar from fat, I think if I can keep my blood glucose as steady as possible, the insulin problem will correct itself so i'm not slamming myself with too much. I think if I take thyroid as well, I can start to time it, but I want to start mainting my blood sugar and not spiking it like crazy which I have been doing without adoubt.

 

[mayweatherking]

Dogma = slang for opinion you disagree with?
Which 'you' are you referring to here - OP? semi-starvation survivors? the general population? everyone with a suppressed metabolism?
I believe there is empirical evidence of it often being consistent with recovery from semi-starvation to gain some fat. I don't know if there is significant evidence of people recovering optimally from this state without it. Maybe there is. You know that severe restrictive eating kills people at a much higher rate than having a bit of 'extra' fat, right?


I'm not at all up with body building culture, but my preconception of the body-building industry is that it does not primarily deal with people who have been very lean and trying to survive on half rations for years - they may have run down their metabolism in an attempt to get lean, but they may be less likely to be underweight? If so, apples and pears. The fitness industry no doubt varies a lot, but some parts of it seem to include a record of promoting over-exercise and under-eating for some customers. I'm glad some parts of the industry are onto helping people recover too.


Do you instantiate this? Eg. have you spent years being very thin and surviving on less than 1800 cals, suffered symptoms of semi-starvation, and then recovered a strong healthy metabolism without gaining fat? Do you know (or know of) other young men who have? It wouldn't prove that it will work for every one, but it'd be good to know if it works for some.

This honestly seems like a chicken or the egg debate and you are right and James is right. One, because the thyroid is what gives your body a better ability to ustilize glucose and insulin it seems like from what I've read. However, your thyroid will be under performing if you don't eat enough. However, if I eat large sums right now, it seems like I am indeed have some issues with insulin as my blood sugar will spike way too high and cause a massive insulin surge, which is leading to stress. So.. it seems like the best solution would be for me to keep my blood sugar between 70-120 all day for as long as possible, whether it required eating large amounts or eating small amounts, as long as it stayed in that range. it seems like to do that, it would require many small meals throughout the day from what I am imagining right now.

However, I want to know how low the sugar can go before stress kicks in, then I can eat before that happens without letting it get there.

I can go that route.. then maybe when I work my way up to more food, start resupplementing thyroid again. Or, another route seems like to go all out and eat a ton of food, and I would have to jump in full blown taking thyroid again to stop the insulin resistance.

I think it might be better to start out small and see what happens....

 

[James IV]

Thanks for the tip. What would you say is the blood sugar level when stress hormones start to kick in? I agree with what you are saying and I think you are right. I am realizing now, obviously I get a negative reaction from eating a large meal, due to the massive blood sugar spike, leading towards a massive insulin response, which you say a large insulin response causes a large cortisol response. I didn't realize certain things were happening with blood sugar so much.

I just want to know where to start eating at, like at what blood sugar level would your stress hormones kick in to start providing you with sugar from fat, I think if I can keep my blood glucose as steady as possible, the insulin problem will correct itself so i'm not slamming myself with too much. I think if I take thyroid as well, I can start to time it, but I want to start mainting my blood sugar and not spiking it like crazy which I have been doing without adoubt.

I would not be overly concerned with "stress" hormones for now. In this case, those hormones are going to be mobilizing toxic excess energy you have in your system. You will feel bursts of adrenalin as you lower your calories, and get into a deficit, this is normal. They will likely be most noticeable when you try to sleep. If you can't sleep, don't try an force yourself, get up and go for a walk. If it's really bad, and you feel weak, have a very small amount of food (like a few bites), it doesn't take much to quell the stress response. Your body will take some time to reset what is "normal" baseline blood sugar, and until it does, every time it drops lower that its current "normal" blood sugar, it will release stress hormones. As you get closer to a healthy normal level, these responses will get less and less severe, because less energy will be needed to bring you back to your current baseline.
When you achieve a good baseline, you will have to reverse the process and slowly raise energy intake back up, making sure you keep you baseline the same.

 

[mayweatherking]

I would not be overly concerned with "stress" hormones for now. In this case, those hormones are going to be mobilizing toxic excess energy you have in your system. You will feel bursts of adrenalin as you lower your calories, and get into a deficit, this is normal. They will likely be most noticeable when you try to sleep. If you can't sleep, don't try an force yourself, get up and go for a walk. If it's really bad, and you feel weak, have a very small amount of food (like a few bites), it doesn't take much to quell the stress response. Your body will take some time to reset what is "normal" baseline blood sugar, and until it does, every time it drops lower that its current "normal" blood sugar, it will release stress hormones. As you get closer to a healthy normal level, these responses will get less and less severe, because less energy will be needed to bring you back to your current baseline.
When you achieve a good baseline, you will have to reverse the process and slowly raise energy intake back up, making sure you keep you baseline the same.

IF you don't eat a lot, then your blood sugar problems will get worse from what I understand. Why would increasing cortisol do any good for the body? It seems like from peat, eating consistently and having sugar is what will fix the blood sugar problems? If you don't eat, you will just get more cortisol and increase the sugar in the blood that way? Do you think differently from peat or am I reading that wrong?

 

[mayweatherking]

I would not be overly concerned with "stress" hormones for now. In this case, those hormones are going to be mobilizing toxic excess energy you have in your system. You will feel bursts of adrenalin as you lower your calories, and get into a deficit, this is normal. They will likely be most noticeable when you try to sleep. If you can't sleep, don't try an force yourself, get up and go for a walk. If it's really bad, and you feel weak, have a very small amount of food (like a few bites), it doesn't take much to quell the stress response. Your body will take some time to reset what is "normal" baseline blood sugar, and until it does, every time it drops lower that its current "normal" blood sugar, it will release stress hormones. As you get closer to a healthy normal level, these responses will get less and less severe, because less energy will be needed to bring you back to your current baseline.
When you achieve a good baseline, you will have to reverse the process and slowly raise energy intake back up, making sure you keep you baseline the same.

what do you think of what ray says:

The picture that I think explains many of the features of diabetes is that an energy deficit produces an alarm state, causing increased production of adrenalin and cortisol. Adrenalin mobilizes fat from storage, and the free fatty acids create a chronic problem involving 1) blocked ATP production, 2) activation of the protein kinase C system (increasing tension in blood vessels), 3) inhibition of thyroid function with its energetic, hormonal, and tissue-structure consequences, 4) availability of fats for prostaglandin synthesis, and 5) possibly a direct effect on clot dissolving, besides the PAI-1 (plasminogen activator inhibitor) effect seen in diabetes (Ceriello, et al., Udvardy, et al., Vague, et al.). (Estrogen has many pro-clotting effects, and one of them is a decreased activity of vascular plasminogen activator. K. E. Miller and S. V. Pizzo, "Venous and arterial thromboembolic disease in women using oral contraceptives," Am. J. Obst. Gyn. 144, 824, 1982. In 1968, D. G. Daniel et al., reported that estrogen promotes thromboembolism by increasing clotting factor IX in the blood.)

 

[mayweatherking]

it seems to me that being hypothyroid, which i obviously am, causes two problems:

one, the high insulin cannot be utilized
two, the high insulin causes the body to produce more stress on top of what it is all ready causing

it seems like what i need to do is lower cortisol ASAP, by maintaining blood sugar between 70-120 consistently all the time. to keep the insulin low. it seems like high insulin is causing problems as a hypothyroid person.

when the cortisol is lowered from mainting blood sugar all day, eating squirts of honey throughout the day, then the insulin problem will stop as insulin chills out a little bit and will be able to get places.

it really seems like cortisol is stopping insulin from going where it needs to go.

i really wonder what the low range is for keeping cortisol maintained, that is the real question....

 

[mayweatherking]

Just got an email from ray:

After eating carbohydrate it’s normal for the glucose to be around 150, during the day it’s o.k. for it to fluctuate around 90.

Ok.. so I have something to aim for here at least. I bet I can get it to 90 via small amounts of thyroid and keep the blood sugar maintained for sure so it doesn't drop below that... keep the cortisol low seems to be the biggy here.. I'll be enjoying some honey all day tomorrow to keep that cortisol from spiking.. here we go...

at least i know why i am getting problems now when i eat too much.. thanks james for pointing this out.. this could be a big breakthrough for me to follow now.... i really didnt know about insulin and thyroid and how powerful it was.. basically, no thyroid and insulin doesnt go where it needs to go.. obvious cortisol issues on top of it blocking.. .dammn

my blood sugar right now is around 100 and i feel hungry.. i wonder what that means..

 

[James IV]

Ray is absolutely right, and what I am saying does not differ from what he is saying. Cortisol and adrenalin are both considered stress hormones, but their action is not the same. My advice is a methodical way get your adrenalin down, And your insulin sensitivity up, with minimal increase to your cortisol. Cortisol will not increase to an unsafe level unless you exhaust your glucose, or create an environment where your current needs are higher than what can be safely mobilized. Keep in mind your body can turn all tissue into glucose, including fat. Breaking down healthy structural tissue is a last resort. Also keep in mind your daytime baseline glucose is NOT your fasting glucose. Fasting glucose only occurs when fasting. Your glucose is supposed to be higher during the day when you are in a fed state. This goes along with circadian rythem.

 

[tara]

i really wonder what the low range is for keeping cortisol maintained, that is the real question....

I doubt there is a single number that applies to everyone all the time. Many years ago I had a 3 hr GTT. After three hours I was just about ready to pass out - I was past the shaking stage and had barely enough energy to walk to my nearby car. But the dr said my BG was in the normal range on all tests. I guess that reflected some level of insulin resistance.

Body needs other things too, to use glucose well - minerals and vitamins etc. Nothing wrong with honey, but it doesn't have lots of micros, so I'd say get some of your carbs from fruits and veges that have some more minerals too.

my blood sugar right now is around 100 and i feel hungry.. i wonder what that means..

You're hungry and want to eat? :)

Keep in mind your body can turn all tissue into glucose, including fat.

??

 

[James IV]

Tara, this explains the fatty acids into glucose better than I can.

The Daily Lipid: We Really Can Make Glucose From Fatty Acids After All! O Textbook, How Thy Biochemistry Hast Deceived Me!

 

[tara]

Tara, this explains the fatty acids into glucose better than I can.

The Daily Lipid: We Really Can Make Glucose From Fatty Acids After All! O Textbook, How Thy Biochemistry Hast Deceived Me!

Thanks James, I'll look at that.

 

[mayweatherking]

Tara, this explains the fatty acids into glucose better than I can.

The Daily Lipid: We Really Can Make Glucose From Fatty Acids After All! O Textbook, How Thy Biochemistry Hast Deceived Me!

Thanks James, I'll look at that.

This is exactly what Peat is against.... you don't want fatty acids in your bloodstream due to PUFA content............ ?

My fasting blood this morning is 94. Damn man, you guys got me all worked up thinking I have diabetes or something lol. I think I am all right. I will use this as a tool though similar to temp. I think if I clear cortisol, insulin can hopefully start getting where it needs to go. I think a small amount of T3 and thyroid would be interesting to see it's effects on blood sugar. I really want to try to find some number to get to though, some low number to know for sure how long it can go. It's interesting salt made it go up... it's using energy for sure, but how low can it go to get there is the question.

 

[mayweatherking]

Had a bowel movement.. Smelld like rotten eggs like hydrogen sulfide... Also was like that last night. But i feel better.. I guess it is bacteria. But if it smells. .. I wonder if it is a detox and getting out of my body

 

[DaveFoster]

@IWishIWasRich
TSH of 1 here; I still have the scalp itch and hair loss.

 

[James IV]

Good to hear about the fasting blood glucose. 94 is the higher end of normal, but not dangerous IMO. Make sure you do a few mornings to make sure you are
consistent.
If you believe that elevated cortisol is causing your constipation, then your next step would be figuring out if/why your cortisol is elevated.

 

[James IV]

Had a bowel movement.. Smelld like rotten eggs like hydrogen sulfide... Also was like that last night. But i feel better.. I guess it is bacteria. But if it smells. .. I wonder if it is a detox and getting out of my body

Yeah. That's good. The blacker and smellier it is, likely the longer is been trapped in there.

 

[cantstoppeating]

Dogma = slang for opinion you disagree with?
Which 'you' are you referring to here - OP? semi-starvation survivors? the general population? everyone with a suppressed metabolism?
I believe there is empirical evidence of it often being consistent with recovery from semi-starvation to gain some fat. I don't know if there is significant evidence of people recovering optimally from this state without it. Maybe there is. You know that severe restrictive eating kills people at a much higher rate than having a bit of 'extra' fat, right?


I'm not at all up with body building culture, but my preconception of the body-building industry is that it does not primarily deal with people who have been very lean and trying to survive on half rations for years - they may have run down their metabolism in an attempt to get lean, but they may be less likely to be underweight? If so, apples and pears. The fitness industry no doubt varies a lot, but some parts of it seem to include a record of promoting over-exercise and under-eating for some customers. I'm glad some parts of the industry are onto helping people recover too.


Do you instantiate this? Eg. have you spent years being very thin and surviving on less than 1800 cals, suffered symptoms of semi-starvation, and then recovered a strong healthy metabolism without gaining fat? Do you know (or know of) other young men who have? It wouldn't prove that it will work for every one, but it'd be good to know if it works for some.

Just because you've seen people get fat while trying to recover from a slow metabolism does not mean that getting fat is a prerequisite or a necessity for recovering from a slow metabolism.

Is this really the crux of your reasoning: I've seen people get fat when trying to recover from a lower metabolism, therefor getting fat is a requirement.

Really?

Aware you aware that you're on a forum about Ray Peat?

It's obvious that many people who come to Peating put on excess body fat. Since this is a Peat forum suggestions like the below should be offered:

• Antiobiotics to clear gut
• Blood donating to clear iron
• Reduce intake of PUFA
• Monitor caloric intake, slowly increase over weeks
• Use caffeine, T3, aspirin, low-dose DNP to ensure sugar oxidation
• Fructose, sucrose, fruit, MCT oil

But going form this observation, to telling people that getting fat is a part of healing a slow metabolism is silly and misguided.

You've been on this forum for a few years and I've noticed the constant "getting fat is a part of recovering your metabolism" posts. Tell me, how long does one expect to remain fat/overweight before things start moving in the right direction? What does one take or do to make that happen? And how long have you been overweight? And what, if anything, from the above Peat suggestions have you tried?

 

[YuraCZ]

cantstoppeating you deserve ban if you recommending DNP here!

 

[Ukall]

I would highly suggest you purchase a phisiology text book and learn about the basics of human metabolism, or hire someone that does. Trying to apply any dietary recommendations without that basic knowledge is going to be difficult, an possibly dangerous. Especially if you have an extreme mindset, which it sounds like you may posses. Going from heavily restriction calories, to guzzling sugar. I'm certainly not trying to be judgemental, but we all need to recognize and embrace our faults, and know when to ask for help.

Dr Peat's work is brilliant. However applying it without understanding what you are doing could be detrimental. If you are unwilling or unable to learn this foundation information, I would probably just reccomend eating a "normal" mixed diet and count calories.

You're so, but so right about this. When I started entering this world of diets, I just went ham like crazy without really knowing what a hell I was doing. Then, I started calling for help, but in the end, it was all my fault for not being careful enough. And the worst is, no one really knows what is the best for you and you will hear different opinions everywhere. But, please, please, don't tunnel vision yourself. And don't take all for granted. The human body is more complex than you think.

I have been steady having honey throughout the day.

Only honey? What about whole foods? Have you ever checked how much nutrients honey has?
Show Foods

can get enough energy out of 1700 cals to complete growth and run a sustainably healthy metabolism.

I think it is not impossible. But 1700 cals from real whole foods, not just sugar.

Hi Ukall, would you be able to link (or refer) to your source for this extract? Thanks.

Meals or Grazing? - WaiTalk . Hope this is not interpreted as if I was promoting something. But since you asked :p