Mic The Vegan On The Dangers Of Dairy

[Nigel Blake]

Hello all, I am new to the forum and would like to hear to some responses on the claims of the hazards of dairy mentioned in this video. Not that I think dairy is bad or anything, just want to hear your thoughts on this.



In summary Mic is claiming that dairy consumption is associated with increase risk of various diseases including cancer and could potentially effect hormone levels to some degree due to the estrogen in milk. Hope this leads to an interesting discussion...

 

[RealNeat]

Hello all, I am new to the forum and would like to hear to some responses on the claims of the hazards of dairy mentioned in this video. Not that I think dairy is bad or anything, just want to hear your thoughts on this.



In summary Mic is claiming that dairy consumption is associated with increase risk of various diseases including cancer and could potentially effect hormone levels to some degree due to the estrogen in milk. Hope this leads to an interesting discussion...

hello. So much of this has already been covered. I suggest you search the word "milk" and read up.

 

[Peatful]

Welcome @Nigel Blake

Milk in context: allergies, ecology, and some myths


Enjoy.

 

[Nigel Blake]

hello. So much of this has already been covered. I suggest you search the word "milk" and read up.

I did try searching dairy instead of milk but I don't recall any topics that rebukes studies associating milk/dairy consumption with the diseases mentioned in the video nor milk/dairy having some effect on hormones. I saw this one comment of this one woman who believes she hit puberty at 7-8 years old due to her milk consumption here's the link to the comment in question (YouTube) watch?v=BdQ_rPjCC7g&lc=Ugw7mijmhJ4Q3RoG3hl4AaABAgIf what she says is true than it would be incorrect to claim that the estrogen in milk won't have any effects. I try searching milk instead and I still not seeing any threads that addressing the points of hormones and disease association. I think it be better to just link the topics you have in mind for the sake of brevity. I give my thanks in advance...

 

[Nigel Blake]

Welcome @Nigel Blake

Milk in context: allergies, ecology, and some myths


Enjoy.

Thanks for your reply. I just finish reading the article you linked and it doesn't really address the points of disease association and hormonal level which I highlighted to be the most relevant, though it does address the lactose intolerance claims mentioned in the video...

 

[tankasnowgod]

I did try searching dairy instead of milk but I don't recall any topics that rebukes studies associating milk/dairy consumption with the diseases mentioned in the video nor milk/dairy having some effect on hormones.

Then you should post the acutal studies, and not a youtube video from a guy who is obviously biased against any animal food. Google Scholar and Pubmed are much better sources to do research.

But wild guess...... Those studies used a nutritional questionnaire, likely once every two to four years, and then strongly implied that some animal foods were the cause of diseases like cancer, even though there was only an "association" in the study.

How'd I do on that wild blind guess?

 

[Nigel Blake]

Then you should post the acutal studies, and not a youtube video from a guy who is obviously biased against any animal food. Google Scholar and Pubmed are much better sources to do research.

But wild guess...... Those studies used a nutritional questionnaire, likely once every two to four years, and then strongly implied that some animal foods were the cause of diseases like cancer, even though there was only an "association" in the study.

How'd I do on that wild blind guess?

I am be very skeptical if the studies actual claim a casual correlation between dairy and cancer. So yes you're correct with your guessing that its association/risk but that is besides the point. The studies mentioned can be found in the video description but for the sake convenience I shall list ( copy and paste) them here with some exceptions since they are irrelevant to this topic

Large BMJ Study on Cancer with ~50% Meta-Analysis Association for Prostate:
https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/9/1/e023625

Dairy Industry Funded Study Within BMJ Paper:
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/01635580801911779

11 Study Meta-Analysis +68% Risk of Prostate:
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1207/s15327914nc4801_4

2019 Prostate Cancer Meta Recommends Lower Milk:
Dairy Products: Is There an Impact on Promotion of Prostate Cancer? A Review of the Literature

Test Cancer 1:
Adolescent milk, dairy product and fruit consumption and testicular cancer. - PubMed - NCBI

Test Cancer 2:
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Test Cancer 3:
https://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/15/11/2189

Review Article of the Effects of Dairy Steroid Hormones on Risk of Cancer
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4524299/pdf/IJPH-44-742.pdf

Decreased Swimmer Function associated with Milk:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23670169?dopt=Abstract 

Cow's Milk altered blood hormones study:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19496976

Early Menarche and Milk Paper:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3038976/

Heart Disease Study Funded by Nestle:
http://apjcn.nhri.org.tw/server/APJCN/24/1/90.pdf

I skip serveral studies since I didn't think they were important. You can find all of them in the video's description if you feel like looking for them. I am not entirely sure of their methodology since I haven't ready the studies in full but I don't think they're as lax as you think it is. I think you might be misinterpreting my purpose for this thread. I am not a vegan or a vegetarian ( I somewhat dislike them to a certain degree) nor am I in the position that dairy is white poison and "plant milk" is better alternative. I just want hear hear some counterpoints and see the faults of these studies that I am not seeing besides obvious points such as using questionnaires and they're just meta analysis that don't show causation. Hope this clears up any remaining confusions....

 

[tankasnowgod]

I skip serveral studies since I didn't think they were important. You can find all of them in the video's description if you feel like looking for them. I am not entirely sure of their methodology since I haven't ready the studies in full but I don't think they're as lax as you think it is. I think you might be misinterpreting my purpose for this thread. I am not a vegan or a vegetarian ( I somewhat dislike them to a certain degree) nor am I in the position that dairy is white poison and "plant milk" is better alternative. I just want hear hear some counterpoints and see the faults of these studies that I am not seeing besides obvious points such as using questionnaires and they're just meta analysis that don't show causation. Hope this clears up any remaining confusions....

Well, you don't even have to read the studies to know their methodology. Most of them are simply a meta-analysis, and mention this in the abstract or the title. Of those, many of those meta-analysis conclude that there isn't even an association between dairy and cancer.

And the "obvious points" you bring up strike right at the heart of the quality of the study in the first place. If you don't have reliable or quality data to start with, why even bother to read or do the rest of the study?

 

[Nigel Blake]

Well, you don't even have to read the studies to know their methodology. Most of them are simply a meta-analysis, and mention this in the abstract or the title. Of those, many of those meta-analysis conclude that there isn't even an association between dairy and cancer.

And the "obvious points" you bring up strike right at the heart of the quality of the study in the first place. If you don't have reliable or quality data to start with, why even bother to read or do the rest of the study?

Well if they were only looking at dairy products and not other food groups then their data would be pretty much pointless. I am sure at least a few of them do that much. In which case, it would be worth exploring as to why they found a higher risk of cancer and other diseases with dairy food compare to other food groups. Then there's the matter of milk effecting hormone levels which you don't seem to be addressing and I think its more noteworthy than the disease risk claims....