Metabolic pathways of carcinomas

[TranceWax]

I recently read a post on this forum which talked about cancer and diet and I thought I would ask here on the forum if any of you geniuses could help me out as I really think the people here are on to something. The post included an article titled 'You Can’t ‘Starve’ Cancer, but You Might Help Treat It With Food By James Hamblin' which was posted on the Atlantic.

Please excuse me as I'm not the best with science or biology but I try to understand it as best as I can and by asking for advice here I'm hoping to get a bit of ahead start as time isn't on my side. The reason for this question relates to a recent diagnosis of canine carcinoma (transitional cell) near to the prostate and as you can probably guess it's inoperable, so many months to live and there's only chemo and drugs to extended the life by so much etc.

The vet is suggests chemo is the best option but this is going to cost upwards of £6,000+ and it's not financially viable right now and I'm not sure it's going to be worth it in the long run. The second options were the use of NSAID's like Piroxicam and Meloxicam and just ride it out and hope for the best, not great I know but surely there has to be more that can be done from an outside of the box approach.

From my limited understanding, I don't believe there's a one size fits all approach to the cancer jigsaw and certain cancers will need different approaches and I believe that using NSAID's with a good diet is the best option in the case.

My questions are, (1) what is the general metabolic pathways of carcinomas and what can be done to cut them off? (2) Are there any benefits to Piroxicam or Meloxicam over Aspirin or do they all essentially do the same thing in terms of cancer?

The vet hadn't heard about the Warburg effect and has never used Aspirin to treat cancer so he would only discuss Piroxicam or Meloxicam but I'm not 100% sure which of these will have the most benefit.

I appreciate any replies and advice and I'll likely have a few more questions as the replies come through. Thanks.

 

[Peatress]

I can't really answer the question about the metabolic pathways. I've heard Dr Peat mention the use of cyproheptadine for cancer. Cypro is safe to use in dog. It is also helpful for carcinomas.

Cyproheptadine for Dogs

VetInfo: Your Trusted Resource for Veterinary Information

www.vetinfo.com

Cyproheptadine exhibits antitumor activity in urothelial carcinoma cells by targeting GSK3β to suppress mTOR and β-catenin signaling pathways - PubMed

Cyproheptadine, a serotonin antagonist, has recently been reported to function as a novel therapeutic agent by inhibiting PI3K/AKT signaling in several human cancers. However, the therapeutic effect of cyproheptadine in urothelial carcinoma (UC) has never been explored. In this study, we...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[TranceWax]

I can't really answer the question about the metabolic pathways. I've heard Dr Peat mention the use of cyproheptadine for cancer. Cypro is safe to use in dog. It is also helpful for carcinomas.

Cyproheptadine for Dogs

VetInfo: Your Trusted Resource for Veterinary Information

www.vetinfo.com

Cyproheptadine exhibits antitumor activity in urothelial carcinoma cells by targeting GSK3β to suppress mTOR and β-catenin signaling pathways - PubMed

Cyproheptadine, a serotonin antagonist, has recently been reported to function as a novel therapeutic agent by inhibiting PI3K/AKT signaling in several human cancers. However, the therapeutic effect of cyproheptadine in urothelial carcinoma (UC) has never been explored. In this study, we...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Thanks so much for the reply. I've just read those studies and even found a few others online and this looks like a promising avenue to work with. Not sure on the dosage for a dog but hopefully the vet could guide us, if not then I'll have to research more online.

 

[Peatress]

Thanks so much for the reply. I've just read those studies and even found a few others online and this looks like a promising avenue to work with. Not sure on the dosage for a dog but hopefully the vet could guide us, if not then I'll have to research more online.

Glad to help. Dr Peat says 2mg is sufficient for cancer in humans. This is a small dose. I should imagine this dose will be fine for dogs too. You might be able to find the interview where he says this if you search carcinomas here.

bioenergetic search

Transcript search engine

www.bioenergetic.life

 

[Limon9]

I recently read a post on this forum which talked about cancer and diet and I thought I would ask here on the forum if any of you geniuses could help me out as I really think the people here are on to something. The post included an article titled 'You Can’t ‘Starve’ Cancer, but You Might Help Treat It With Food By James Hamblin' which was posted on the Atlantic.

Please excuse me as I'm not the best with science or biology but I try to understand it as best as I can and by asking for advice here I'm hoping to get a bit of ahead start as time isn't on my side. The reason for this question relates to a recent diagnosis of canine carcinoma (transitional cell) near to the prostate and as you can probably guess it's inoperable, so many months to live and there's only chemo and drugs to extended the life by so much etc.

The vet is suggests chemo is the best option but this is going to cost upwards of £6,000+ and it's not financially viable right now and I'm not sure it's going to be worth it in the long run. The second options were the use of NSAID's like Piroxicam and Meloxicam and just ride it out and hope for the best, not great I know but surely there has to be more that can be done from an outside of the box approach.

From my limited understanding, I don't believe there's a one size fits all approach to the cancer jigsaw and certain cancers will need different approaches and I believe that using NSAID's with a good diet is the best option in the case.

My questions are, (1) what is the general metabolic pathways of carcinomas and what can be done to cut them off? (2) Are there any benefits to Piroxicam or Meloxicam over Aspirin or do they all essentially do the same thing in terms of cancer?

The vet hadn't heard about the Warburg effect and has never used Aspirin to treat cancer so he would only discuss Piroxicam or Meloxicam but I'm not 100% sure which of these will have the most benefit.

I appreciate any replies and advice and I'll likely have a few more questions as the replies come through. Thanks.

There's some good advice from Haidut and the late Dr. Peat in this thread, recommending aspirin over piroxicam. I think those NSAIDS are equally likely to affect the prostate area, but some in less beneficial ways than others. The "metabolic theory" of cancer treats with the field of the whole organism, working from the premise that systemically-beneficial things will help locally, while a radiation therapy works in reverse, producing systemic sickness from local destruction.

 

[TranceWax]

Glad to help. Dr Peat says 2mg is sufficient for cancer in humans. This is a small dose. I should imagine this dose will be fine for dogs too. You might be able to find the interview where he says this if you search carcinomas here.

bioenergetic search

Transcript search engine

www.bioenergetic.life

I'll check this out, I'm assuming the dose may be even less given a dog is a lot smaller but hopefully a vet can confirm the dosage for animals but it looks like a viable option to add in to the regime.

 

[TranceWax]

There's some good advice from Haidut and the late Dr. Peat in this thread, recommending aspirin over piroxicam. I think those NSAIDS are equally likely to affect the prostate area, but some in less beneficial ways than others. The "metabolic theory" of cancer treats with the field of the whole organism, working from the premise that systemically-beneficial things will help locally, while a radiation therapy works in reverse, producing systemic sickness from local destruction.

Thanks for the reply, it's much appreciated, I'll take a look. I've been reading a few posts on social media groups from people who take NSAIDS and the general concern around those is the irritation to the gut and stomach lining, so it looks like I'll need to proceed with caution but that leads me to the question, is there anything that can protect the stomach and gut lining?

I've read a little bit more on this forum and seen a few people mention cancer using glucose and certain animo acids as fuel but I'm not sure if this applies to carcinoma cells. Some people suggest the use of a high L-Lysine ratio diet to offset L-arginine which cancer seems to also like but again I'm not sure if this applies to carcinomas.

 

[Limon9]

Thanks for the reply, it's much appreciated, I'll take a look. I've been reading a few posts on social media groups from people who take NSAIDS and the general concern around those is the irritation to the gut and stomach lining, so it looks like I'll need to proceed with caution but that leads me to the question, is there anything that can protect the stomach and gut lining?

I've read a little bit more on this forum and seen a few people mention cancer using glucose and certain animo acids as fuel but I'm not sure if this applies to carcinoma cells. Some people suggest the use of a high L-Lysine ratio diet to offset L-arginine which cancer seems to also like but again I'm not sure if this applies to carcinomas.

A little sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) is safe for a dog, and could be used to make alka-seltzer, diluting the aspirin and neutralizing its acidity. There's good evidence in humans that glycine significantly improves the tolerability of aspirin, and these are expected to synergize. Arginine is the precursor for nitric oxide, a powerful signal for angiogenesis, the blood-vessel forming process by which a cancerous mass "branches out." I don't know about supplemental lysine, but avoiding any grain-containing dog foods is a reasonable place to start, and glycine (again - multifunctional) can inhibit angiogenesis, reducing the vascularity of tumors in several species.

 

[L_C]

I am not sure how applicable this is and dont know much about the metabolic pathways but there is a case of a man who cured himself from cancer by taking fenbendazole - dog dewormer. Perhaps, it could be a good start.

Here is the link: The Blog – Get Busy Living

 

[TranceWax]

I am not sure how applicable this is and dont know much about the metabolic pathways but there is a case of a man who cured himself from cancer by taking fenbendazole - dog dewormer. Perhaps, it could be a good start.

Here is the link: The Blog – Get Busy Living

Yeah I've heard about that but it seems to only work when taking a good quality multivitamin from the studies and they don't know why but this is another avenue to explore, thanks.

 

[TranceWax]

A little sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) is safe for a dog, and could be used to make alka-seltzer, diluting the aspirin and neutralizing its acidity. There's good evidence in humans that glycine significantly improves the tolerability of aspirin, and these are expected to synergize. Arginine is the precursor for nitric oxide, a powerful signal for angiogenesis, the blood-vessel forming process by which a cancerous mass "branches out." I don't know about supplemental lysine, but avoiding any grain-containing dog foods is a reasonable place to start, and glycine (again - multifunctional) can inhibit angiogenesis, reducing the vascularity of tumors in several species.

I've been reading about peoples experiences with sodium bicarbonate and it seems like it help out a lot of people. I have to make a decision today on which NSAIDs to put him on and I've spoke to a couple of vets in the area an they're all saying to use Piroxicam and Meloxicam, non of them have used Aspirin as a cancer treatment before so I'm not sure what to do as the doses of Aspirin will be vastly different from a human to a dog so I can't get it wrong.

That's interesting about Glycine, do you think this could help with the side effects of Meloxicam since that's a COX-1 and COX-2 inhibitor the same as Aspirin? I'm just asking incase the vet can't be persuaded to use Aspirin and we have to use Meloxicam until we can find a vet who's open to aspirin.

Yeah, he's pretty much on a grain free diet, it's mainly just a mix of chicken, beef, salmon, duck with some vegetables like broccoli, butternut squash, green peas, salmon oil and kefir etc that sort of thing. We used to give him kibble until about three years ago when we learnt how bad it was for dogs.

 

[Limon9]

I've been reading about peoples experiences with sodium bicarbonate and it seems like it help out a lot of people. I have to make a decision today on which NSAIDs to put him on and I've spoke to a couple of vets in the area an they're all saying to use Piroxicam and Meloxicam, non of them have used Aspirin as a cancer treatment before so I'm not sure what to do as the doses of Aspirin will be vastly different from a human to a dog so I can't get it wrong.

That's interesting about Glycine, do you think this could help with the side effects of Meloxicam since that's a COX-1 and COX-2 inhibitor the same as Aspirin? I'm just asking incase the vet can't be persuaded to use Aspirin and we have to use Meloxicam until we can find a vet who's open to aspirin.

Yeah, he's pretty much on a grain free diet, it's mainly just a mix of chicken, beef, salmon, duck with some vegetables like broccoli, butternut squash, green peas, salmon oil and kefir etc that sort of thing. We used to give him kibble until about three years ago when we learnt how bad it was for dogs.

10 or 20mg/kg of aspirin would be okay for a dog, as a low estimate. It seems like Meloxicam is hepatoxic, causing (probably mild) liver damage in 5-10% of patients, indicated by elevated aminotransferase. Glycine would certainly help with that.

 

[TranceWax]

10 or 20mg/kg of aspirin would be okay for a dog, as a low estimate. It seems like Meloxicam is hepatoxic, causing (probably mild) liver damage in 5-10% of patients, indicated by elevated aminotransferase. Glycine would certainly help with that.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge, it's a massive help. So if I can't find a vet to use the Aspirin or find one who can correctly dose based on his weight and if I was to use Meloxicam as the last resort then definitely use Glycine to help with elevated aminotransferase? I've noticed from the forum that Glycine seems to be really high in Gelatin, I suppose this would be a great addition to his diet? I take it any Gelatin powder, preferably organic would be best or even bone broth? Thanks again

 

[Limon9]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge, it's a massive help. So if I can't find a vet to use the Aspirin or find one who can correctly dose based on his weight and if I was to use Meloxicam as the last resort then definitely use Glycine to help with elevated aminotransferase? I've noticed from the forum that Glycine seems to be really high in Gelatin, I suppose this would be a great addition to his diet? I take it any Gelatin powder, preferably organic would be best or even bone broth? Thanks again

You could do it yourself. Yeah, gelatin has one-third glycine, and its other amino acids and lack of tryptophan will be helpful - you could even use both gelatin and glycine in different situations. I've had some very bad-tasting canisters, so oxtail soup might be better if it's practical.

 

[TranceWax]

You could do it yourself. Yeah, gelatin has one-third glycine, and its other amino acids and lack of tryptophan will be helpful - you could even use both gelatin and glycine in different situations. I've had some very bad-tasting canisters, so oxtail soup might be better if it's practical.

I've got around to making some last night and it's finally set this morning, I found some beef gelatine down the at supermarket and it was only £1 so I'm going to mix it up with his food, he doesn't seem interested when it's on it's own so hopefully whatever NSAID we can get I'll use it along side it.

I've also mentioned to the vet about cyproheptadine and supplied a few studies to back up the claims with it helping out with cancer, they use it for dogs anyway so hopefully they'll take note as cyproheptadine from what I read really helps. I read that they were using in Taiwan and people with bladder cancer were doubling their life expectancy from 2 years to 4+ years.

I wanted to ask when you mentioned about tryptophan and arginine, should we be avoiding foods with high concentrations of those amino acids? they seem to be in everything.

Thanks again

 

[Limon9]

I've got around to making some last night and it's finally set this morning, I found some beef gelatine down the at supermarket and it was only £1 so I'm going to mix it up with his food, he doesn't seem interested when it's on it's own so hopefully whatever NSAID we can get I'll use it along side it.

I've also mentioned to the vet about cyproheptadine and supplied a few studies to back up the claims with it helping out with cancer, they use it for dogs anyway so hopefully they'll take note as cyproheptadine from what I read really helps. I read that they were using in Taiwan and people with bladder cancer were doubling their life expectancy from 2 years to 4+ years.

I wanted to ask when you mentioned about tryptophan and arginine, should we be avoiding foods with high concentrations of those amino acids? they seem to be in everything.

Thanks again

You could only deplete those amino-acids with specialized medical foods, yeah. But they do have competitors - arginine has lysine, and tryptophan has at least five other non-polar amino acids. Something like gelatin (not pure glycine) has no tryptophan but has a decent amount of those competitors, adjusting the ratio so as to reduce brain tryptophan uptake and serotonin synthesis. Brain serotonin tends to activate the pituitary gland, producing growth signals (prolactin, growth hormone, etc.) which are likely undesirable in carcinoma. This is a known effect of cyproheptadine, and probably contributes to the increased survival you mentioned. Dogs don't really eat any of the red-flag foods which would do the opposite, like egg whites or pure sugar taken alone.

 

[TranceWax]

You could only deplete those amino-acids with specialized medical foods, yeah. But they do have competitors - arginine has lysine, and tryptophan has at least five other non-polar amino acids. Something like gelatin (not pure glycine) has no tryptophan but has a decent amount of those competitors, adjusting the ratio so as to reduce brain tryptophan uptake and serotonin synthesis. Brain serotonin tends to activate the pituitary gland, producing growth signals (prolactin, growth hormone, etc.) which are likely undesirable in carcinoma. This is a known effect of cyproheptadine, and probably contributes to the increased survival you mentioned. Dogs don't really eat any of the red-flag foods which would do the opposite, like egg whites or pure sugar taken alone.

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and articles, you've given me a good head start with this and plenty of outside of the box approach, I'm learning a lot! What is the general amount of gelatine that people on this forum consume? I'm sure I read that one tablespoon of gelatine had around 1200mg of Glycine, although I'm not sure how accurate the article was that I read.

The vets were going back an forth about the aspirin and other NSAIDs and we all agreed with Peroxicam, it might not be the best but it seemed best just to get him on something for now. He's still in good spirit and I'm hoping to add in the cyproheptadine next week, I don't wanna add to many things at once as if there's any side effects I won't know which is causing which.

Do you know anything else what will help with blood in the urine or even any articles I can read? Although there's not much, there's some speckles in there. Appreciate your help so far. have a great day.

 

[TranceWax]

The vet seems open to the idea of Cyproheptadine but neither the vet or myself can find any information regarding using both Cyproheptadine and Peroxicam together? Does anyone know if these can be both used safely? Any links or information would be a massive help.