Lowering prolactin is tough

[June]

Is it meant to be this uncomfortable to lower prolactin? I’m taking a fairly high dose of Vitex 2000mg to lower my high prolactin and raise progesterone. Trying to stop some female bleeding. Its been causing agitation, buzzing/static in head and ears, light sensitivity, vision disturbances and feeling quite warm. Also a feeling as if I need to keep moving. I don’t have progesterone on hand, so this is my only option. Is this a dopamine effect or is it screwing with my adrenals? I’m afraid to use a lower dose in case it ends up increasing my prolactin (as per the studies). From a genetics test in the past, I was told that my body does not metabolize dopamine well and im prone to being dopamine dominant. So how do I lower prolactin if I can’t even raise dopamine? Seeing that using a low dose of Vitex isnt a good idea, what is? I wonder if 800mg Vitex is enough to suppress prolactin. Ive been on some bodybuilding forums where they mentioned you need at least 1500mg Vitex to ensure if lowers it. My other option is Theanine but I really need the extra progesterone from Vitex. What is the lowest effective dose of Vitex? I trialled theanine at 200mg for a day and that failed as it caused a depressive episode. Not sure how likely 50mg theanine would lower prolactin. But if this buzzing in my ear is caused by adrenals, then maybe Theanine is the better choice. Unless this is a dopamine effect, then I am doomed. i assumed the increase in Gaba via progesterone would offset the anxiety but this doesn’t feel worth it.

 

[Jennifer]

Hi June, have you tried salt and thyroid or B6? From email exchanges with Ray:

High prolactin

Either vitex or bromocriptine would probably stop it, but I think it's probably caused by mild hypothyroidism, and that the best way to handle it would be with a thyroid supplement, and that would probably help your libido too.

Prolactin and TSH tend to increase together, so when you didn't need the prolactin to be high, the TSH--which might have been keeping your thyroid active despite high estrogen--could have decreased, letting the gland be suppressed by estrogen (and maybe PUFA, from the nuts and any non-ruminant meats). Optimally, the TSH should be very low, but the thyroid gland should keep functioning without needing much stimulation.

Salt and thyroid usually lower it, but you might want to try a little vitamin B6; even a small amount, about 10 mg per day, can lower prolactin.

Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki

raypeatforum.com

 

[June]

Hi June, have you tried salt and thyroid or B6? From email exchanges with Ray:

High prolactin

Either vitex or bromocriptine would probably stop it, but I think it's probably caused by mild hypothyroidism, and that the best way to handle it would be with a thyroid supplement, and that would probably help your libido too.

Prolactin and TSH tend to increase together, so when you didn't need the prolactin to be high, the TSH--which might have been keeping your thyroid active despite high estrogen--could have decreased, letting the gland be suppressed by estrogen (and maybe PUFA, from the nuts and any non-ruminant meats). Optimally, the TSH should be very low, but the thyroid gland should keep functioning without needing much stimulation.

Salt and thyroid usually lower it, but you might want to try a little vitamin B6; even a small amount, about 10 mg per day, can lower prolactin.

Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki

raypeatforum.com

Thanks Jennifer! Should there be a worry about taking B vitamins individually? Someone once told me to always take as a B complex and with other co-factors. My TSH is on the lower end so it might not be the culprit? I was given birth control pills in 2018 for one month, so perhaps it’s circulating estrogen? Which is why Vitex intrigued me. If the main road block for this is the dopamine, wouldn’t b6 also cause the same agitation?

 

[Jennifer]

Thanks Jennifer! Should there be a worry about taking B vitamins individually? Someone once told me to always take as a B complex and with other co-factors. My TSH is on the lower end so it might not be the culprit? I was given birth control pills in 2018 for one month, so perhaps it’s circulating estrogen? Which is why Vitex intrigued me. If the main road block for this is the dopamine, wouldn’t b6 also cause the same agitation?

You’re welcome. :) I’ve had practitioners prescribe me B6 and I doubt Ray would have suggested it had he thought it needed to be taken in conjunction with the other B vitamins. Do you know what your temps (taken first thing in the morning and after eating) and pulse rate are? That should give you a better indication of your thyroid function. It could be circulating estrogen, but then I would question why your liver hasn’t excreted it in the last 5 years. Could it be due to a progesterone and/or thyroid deficiency that Vitex isn’t enough to fix?

 

[June]

You’re welcome. :) I’ve had practitioners prescribe me B6 and I doubt Ray would have suggested it had he thought it needed to be taken in conjunction with the other B vitamins. Do you know what your temps (taken first thing in the morning and after eating) and pulse rate are? That should give you a better indication of your thyroid function. It could be circulating estrogen, but then I would question why your liver hasn’t excreted it in the last 5 years. Could it be due to a progesterone and/or thyroid deficiency that Vitex isn’t enough to fix?

I just started vitex this second time around. First time I tried it, it did help me stop another bleeding session but I needed very high doses and it also caused this agitation. I even woke up with heart pounding and hot flash but that bleed did stop for 2 weeks. Is this a cortisol rush? I just tried to fall asleep and was woken up by loud whooshing in my ear. This makes me wonder if Theanine is the magic bullet. Possibly help lowering cortisol too. But that leaves me with low progesterone. I suppose I can try a 800mg vitex dose before moving on to Theanine or B6. Do you know whether Vitex can be taken every other day?

Edit: forgot to add, does lowering prolactin automatically raise progesterone? Or is it still possible to have low prolactin AND low progesterone?

 

[Jennifer]

I just started vitex this second time around. First time I tried it, it did help me stop another bleeding session but I needed very high doses and it also caused this agitation. I even woke up with heart pounding and hot flash but that bleed did stop for 2 weeks. Is this a cortisol rush? I just tried to fall asleep and was woken up by loud whooshing in my ear. This makes me wonder if Theanine is the magic bullet. Possibly help lowering cortisol too. But that leaves me with low progesterone. I suppose I can try a 800mg vitex dose before moving on to Theanine or B6. Do you know whether Vitex can be taken every other day?

Edit: forgot to add, does lowering prolactin automatically raise progesterone? Or is it still possible to have low prolactin AND low progesterone?

Prolactin is my indicator of tissue bound estrogen so high prolactin indicates to me that there’s estrogen dominance. Waking up to a pounding heart, hot flashes and whooshing in the ears, i.e., your heartbeat known as pulsatile tinnitus, are all symptoms I get when having an adrenaline attack. L-theanine didn’t help, but thyroid did. It not only resolved the attacks, but my excess menstrual bleeding, as well. Same for my mum. Ray said in his Progesterone Summaries’ article that using thyroid will usually reduce the amount of progesterone needed but occasionally, a woman won’t feel any effect even from 100 mg of progesterone so he thought it indicated that they need to use thyroid and diet to normalize their estrogen, prolactin and cortisol. That’s why I asked if you track your temps and pulse rate. TSH isn’t the best indicator of thyroid function. For example, adrenaline can lower TSH, making one think their thyroid function is good when it’s actually not. In case you haven’t read it and might find it helpful, here’s Ray’s Progesterone Summaries article:

Progesterone Summaries - Progesterone Deceptions - Progesterone Supplementation - Dosage of Progesterone

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

 

[Dave Clark]

Ginkgo Biloba herb has shown to lower prolactin levels, amongst its other benefits:

Ginkgo biloba extract enhances male copulatory behavior and reduces serum prolactin levels in rats - PubMed

The aim of this study was to investigate the effects of Ginkgo biloba extract (EGb 761) on male copulatory behavior in rats. EGb 761 (1 mg/ml) induced significant production of testosterone (T) in rat Leydig cells in vitro. Its effects on sexual behavior were then tested in Long-Evans male rats...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[liam183]

What's worked for me:
-eliminate gut irritants
-cut out cheap dopamine (ie porn/masturbation, social media, video games, etc)
-lots of sunlight (this is probably the most important)
-liquid mucuna pruriens extract 1-2x a week on non-consecutive days

 

[June]

Thanks I will take this into consideration. Do you think my adrenals are shot? Heres my hormone and DHEA panel.

FSH 3.5 IU/L
Follitropin (FSH) female reference intervals---------------------------------------------
Follicular: 3.0-8.0 IU/LMid-cycle: 3.0-22.0 IU/LLuteal: 1.5-5.5 IU/LPost-menopausal: 27.0-133.0 IU/LLH 2.1 IU/L

Lutropin (LH) female reference intervals---------------------------------------------Follicular: 2.0-12.0 IU/LMid-cycle: 8.0-90.0 IU/LLuteal: 1.0-14.0 IU/LPost-menopausal: 5.0-62.0 IU/L

Prolactin 24.8 5.0-27.0 ug/LReproductive and Gonadal

Estradiol 131 pmol/LEstradiol adult female reference intervals------------------------------------------Follicular: 77-921 pmol/LMid-cycle: 139-2382 pmol/LLuteal: 77-1145 pmol/LPost-menopausal: <103 pmol/L
Progesterone <0.6 nmol/LProgesterone adult female reference intervals---------------------------------------------Follicular: <1.7 nmol/LLuteal: 4.0-50.0 nmol/LPost-menopausal: <0.7 nmol/LEffective Oct 24, 2022 this test is performed ona new analyzer. Results are equivalent, andreference intervals are unchanged except forpost-menopausal stage.

Dehydroepiandrosterone [DHEA-S] 4.4 < 9.8 umol/L
Testosterone <0.4 < 1.8 nmol/LReference interval applies to AM collections.Total Testosterone levels may not reflect thebiologically-active testosterone when SHBG levelsare abnormal.

Thyroid Function
Thyroid Stimulating Hormone 1.16 0.32-4.00 mIU/L
Free T3 4.0 2.6-5.8 pmol/L
Thyroperoxidase Antibody HI 57 < 35 kIU/L
Anti-Thyroid peroxidase antibody values up to250 kIU/L may be seen in 5-10% of the normalpopulation without demonstrable thyroid disease.This incidence increases with age.

 

[Aby_2021]

Vitamin B6, Zinc picolinate and Vitamin E were the only supplements that helped me lower prolactin, in addition to lowering/managing stress