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Vitex For Men

Pointless

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My understanding of this is that it increases luteinizing hormone and decreases follicle-stimulating hormone. According to Wikipedia, LH stimulates the testes to produce androgens, which can be aromatized to estrogen. So is this overall estrogenic for men?

Does Ray Peat's recommendation of Vitex for increasing progesterone only apply to women? From what I read, it's only progestogenic in women. Can anyone confirm this? Some people are saying it is called "monk's pepper" because it decreases libido, but it makes my libido go crazy. This seems more like estrogen or testosterone. This could be dose-related and might have different effects at very high doses, but I've only tried one or two drops of the tincture (recommended dose 30 drops)

It seems to reduce prolactin, because my premature ejaculation is a thing of the past even with a tiny done of alcohol tincture of vitex. Here's a study on its dopaminergic and anti-prolactin effects: Chaste tree (Vitex agnus-castus)--pharmacology and clinical indications. - PubMed - NCBI
 

Pointless

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Maybe the increase in LH that some people experience...

"Before I started taking Vitex my LH:FSH was 2:1 (cd3) .... when I went back to the clinic to have my hormones tested (cd3) after having taken Vitex for a month my LH:FSH was 4:1 !!!!!!" Vitex and high LH levels

...can be explained by a reduction in prolactin?

"These data demonstrate that prolactin suppresses LH levels in the mouse, as it does in other species, and indicate that it acts centrally to regulate intracellular signaling within GnRH neurons." - See more at: http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/en.2007-0403

Maybe the increase in LH is only seen in hyperprolactinemic people?
 

Quality

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Ive tried, it.
Took about 4-8 capsules a day, made me a horny, but different than the normal horny type of way... hard to describe, id get insanely jealous while on this stuff.
Gave me rash by the way, guess progesterone driven... not a nice thing, would avoid as a male in the future.
 

tara

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Quality

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Has he recommended it for women?


Do you associate rash with progesterone?
Well for me the rash and red colored skin eruptions covering a large part of my abdomen appeared quite quickly within the first week.
The herb has it's known uses in PCOS and is apparantly used as an ANaphrodisiac in low doses and aphrodisiac in higher doses.
If you use google you can find out theres alot of women who kind of have the same side effect as me.
The herb doesn't seem to be used much in males though.

By the way I never had this kind of side effect of any herb or supplement before.
 

tara

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Well for me the rash and red colored skin eruptions covering a large part of my abdomen appeared quite quickly within the first week.
You mean you associate the rash with vitex as a herb, not specifically with the progesterone it may raise?
 

SarahBeara

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Well for me the rash and red colored skin eruptions covering a large part of my abdomen appeared quite quickly within the first week.
The herb has it's known uses in PCOS and is apparantly used as an ANaphrodisiac in low doses and aphrodisiac in higher doses.
If you use google you can find out theres alot of women who kind of have the same side effect as me.
The herb doesn't seem to be used much in males though.

By the way I never had this kind of side effect of any herb or supplement before.
It's traditional name is Chaste Berry as it aided monks in their chastity. Prob not a desired effect for most men!
 

Quality

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You mean you associate the rash with vitex as a herb, not specifically with the progesterone it may raise?
Well vitex is known to raise progesterone, and has dopamine agonist properties.
It took about 1-2 weeks after stopping vitex for my skin problems to go away.
I was using Natures Way Vitex by the way, 400mg/capsule.

Theres many websites on the net where you can find that rash can be a side effect of progesterone - https://www.drugs.com/sfx/progesterone-side-effects.html
 

Quality

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It's traditional name is Chaste Berry as it aided monks in their chastity. Prob not a desired effect for most men!
Well it did change my libido in a way.
It made me feel emotional, jealous and weak.
Feeling vulnerable can allow some people to be more open to sexual cues.
I prefered my normal libido over it though, I couldnt handle the crying and insane jealousy over small things.

Another example is MACA for example, a well known libido and fertility booster, widely claimed to be a testosterone booster which is false as proven below.

Role of maca (Lepidium meyenii) consumption on serum interleukin-6 levels and health status in populations living in the Peruvian central Andes over 4000 m of altitude

Check the table in the link below - T levels dropped alot, E2 went up alot in regular consumers, health status improved quite a bit.
Role of maca (Lepidium meyenii) consumption on serum interleukin-6 levels and health status in populations living in the Peruvian central Andes over 4000 m of altitude

Just shows theres more to a mans health than testosterone, estrogen is needed for bone growth aswell and healthy libido.
 
Last edited:

tara

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Well vitex is known to raise progesterone, and has dopamine agonist properties.
It took about 1-2 weeks after stopping vitex for my skin problems to go away.
I was using Natures Way Vitex by the way, 400mg/capsule.
Thanks. Vitex is expected to raise the progesterone level, but it may have other side-effects too, being a plant containing other substances.

Theres many websites on the net where you can find that rash can be a side effect of progesterone - Progesterone Side Effects in Detail - Drugs.com
That website lumps bio-identical progesterone with artificial progestogens, and says to avoid progesterone if there's a history of breast cancer. Peat has written specifically about this kind of conflation (Progesterone Deceptions). So I think I'll take that page with a grain of salt.
But if someone has used actual progesterone and experienced a rash from it, that would be interesting.
 

Pointless

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tara

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Thewonder92

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My understanding of this is that it increases luteinizing hormone and decreases follicle-stimulating hormone. According to Wikipedia, LH stimulates the testes to produce androgens, which can be aromatized to estrogen. So is this overall estrogenic for men?

Does Ray Peat's recommendation of Vitex for increasing progesterone only apply to women? From what I read, it's only progestogenic in women. Can anyone confirm this? Some people are saying it is called "monk's pepper" because it decreases libido, but it makes my libido go crazy. This seems more like estrogen or testosterone. This could be dose-related and might have different effects at very high doses, but I've only tried one or two drops of the tincture (recommended dose 30 drops)

It seems to reduce prolactin, because my premature ejaculation is a thing of the past even with a tiny done of alcohol tincture of vitex. Here's a study on its dopaminergic and anti-prolactin effects: Chaste tree (Vitex agnus-castus)--pharmacology and clinical indications. - PubMed - NCBI

You're only using small amounts? Vitex is a D2 antagonist in low dosages (under around 200-500mg) and a D2 agonist (at around 800-1,200 mg).

D2 agonism will lower prolactin, as Vitex acts as a Dopamine mimetic, with high affinity for D2 receptors. This mechanism is blocked by antipsychotic or D2 antagonist drugs.

D2 receptors control the release of prolactin. D2 agonists will decrease prolactin, and D2 antagonists will allow prolactin to rise. Antipsychotics are notorious for increasing prolactin, whereas the atypical antipsychotic abilify lowers prolactin and is also a D2 agonist.

Bromocriptine is another D2 agonist which is used to lower prolactin in those with a prolactinoma.

Taking low dose vitexin is much more likely to increase prolactin thereby lowering dopamine.

Taking higher dose vitexin is likely to lower prolactin by mimicking dopamine.
 
Last edited:

DavePalumbo

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Why would you associate increasing luteinizing hormone with increasing estrogen? Do you have ovaries or testicles?
 

Sativa

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Vitex aka Chaste also acts on the serotonin system, seemingly broadly reducing or blocking serotonin.
(as well as the Dopamine D2 and progesterone stuff...)

Vitex acts on the 5-HT1A serotonergic system.
agonists/activators of 5-HT1A are used to relieve anxiety, e.g. buspirone.
5-HT1A antagonists/blockers increase anxiety (and increase effects of anti-depressants).

Vitex could be either an antagonist or agonist... All they know so far is:
These results illustrate that 5HT1A receptor is involved in the seeming HT1A blocking-like effects of vitex.

The concentration of dopamine in blood plasma increased, while that of serotonin significantly decreased after 90 days of Vitex agnus castus administration. The concentration of 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid (5-HIAA), which is a final serotonin metabolite, significantly increased.
The above results might suggest that Vitex agnus castus preparation positively influences metabolism of serotonin, which is an antagonist in relation to dopaminergic system, responsible - among others - for correct synthesis and secretion of prolactin in the hypothalamus - pituitary gland system.

1. Use for Vitex agnus castus:
- functional hyperprolactinemia with hyperserotoninemia,


~source: REPORT
 
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Sativa

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@Lokzo
some anti-serotonin things for you lol.

I reckon two well-known traditional anti-serotonin choices - Salicylic acid & Chaste Berry (D2, HT1A modulate/reduce)
...plus anti-cholinergic 1-3 Datura Stramonium seeds ...
combined with an anti-histamine (many to choose from...) would mimic the crux elements of Cypro..
Inhibition of the serotonergic transmission by aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid) is responsible for its nootropic and neuroprotective actions.​

5-HT1A agonist blocks excessive serotonergic transmission, via inhibitory effects on serotonergic activity through negative feedback.

It'd be ideal to get some more HT2* antagonism though - perhaps Chaste's D2 agonism might help...
Anything pro-dopamine, causes the HT2A receptor to internalise aka vanish for a while ;)
Dopamine attaches to the HT2A receptor, catalysing it's internalization.
Anything that lowers prolactin will increase Dopamine.
 
Last edited:

ilhanxx

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Feb 26, 2019
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I dont recommend it for men. If someone wonder it, they can drink herbal tea, but in one week it will terminate all libido. It is known as monk herb. You can use alchemilla vulgaris for prolactin, it is mostly safe.
 

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