Low progesterone, not low estrogen, drives night sweats, insomnia of menopause

haidut

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Every time I see a study like this I catch myself singing the glorious Queen lyrics "...another one bites the dust". In this case, what bytes the dust is the pernicious myth that estrogen deficiency drives many of the features of menopause - from the more benign symptoms such as insomnia, night sweats, irritability and loss of libido to the more serious ones such as cardiovascular disease (CVD), dementia, autoimmune conditions, etc. A recent study I posted about already demonstrated that it is low androgens, not low estrogens, that are linked to increased CVD rates. Now, the study below demonstrates that it is low progesterone, not low estrogen, that drives the insomnia and night sweats that are so common among peri- and menopausal women. Unlike the CVD study I mentioned above, this study was actually an intervention trial, meaning it administered biodentical progesterone (P4) and found it ameliorated those symptoms while simultaneously citing the failure of prior studies with estrogen administration to elicit similar benefit. Thus, the only reasonable conclusions here are: 1) menopause is likely not a condition of estrogen deficit, 2) progesterone is the true protective factor lost in menopause and replenishing its levels is warranted in order to improve the health in peri- and menopausal women. In fact, the study itself notes that at least as far as peri-menopause is concerned, estrogen is usually higher, not lower, compared to health pre-menopausal women and it is the higher estrogen driving symptoms such as "...heavy flow, sore breasts, and migraine headaches". While the study does not mention it, I would also like to add that there have been numerous trials with synthetic progestins and they have also generally failed to improve those symptoms. So, it is only bio-identical progesterone that has so far been demonstrated to be beneficial, despite what Big Pharma has been broadcasting for decades in regards to their "just like progesterone, only better" synthetic progestogenic poisons.

http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/s41598-023-35826-w
Progesterone decreases night sweats & improves sleep in perimenopausal women

"...“This guideline assumes that hormone levels and symptoms are the same in the early years of menopause and in menstruating perimenopausal women,” according to co-author, Dr. Michelle Fung, endocrinologist at William Osler Health System, Ontario. “Although menopausal women have low hormone levels, perimenopausal women may experience heavy flow, sore breasts, and migraine headaches related to higher estrogen levels” Dr. Fung added. “No previous study has even attempted to investigate MHT as a perimenopausal VMS treatment,” stated author, Andrea Cameron, research-nurse investigator who coordinated this study. “Current assumption is that hot flushes are caused by low estrogen in both perimenopause and menopause, thus estrogen therapy would be effective.” They just assumed that hot flushes are caused by low estrogen levels, thus estrogen therapy would be effective.” “Previous studies treating perimenopausal hot flushes have not been successful. These include trials of low-dose birth control pills or estrogen as a skin gel,” co-author Christine L Hitchcock, PhD, research-consultant in Oakville, Ontario asserted. “All studies to date, including ours, studied too few perimenopausal women because perimenopausal VMS are much more variable than menopausal ones. Consequently, despite almost 200 participants, our primary outcome was not statistically different between Progesterone and placebo.” “The significant results for night sweats and sleep on Progesterone were from a planned secondary outcome asking women at study-end to assess changes they perceived,” stated principal investigator and endocrinology professor at the University of British Columbia, Dr. Jerilynn C. Prior. “Although some reviewers ascribed both night sweat and sleep improvements to Progesterone’s known actions to increase deep sleep, that doesn’t explain the significantly decreased intensity of daytime VMS that women also perceived.” “Given the evidence, and urgent need for effective treatment of perimenopausal VMS, a physician can reasonably prescribe a trial of 300 mg of oral micronized progesterone for a menstruating woman having night sweats waking her twice a week or more frequently,” according to Dr. Carol Herbert, Professor emerita, former Dean of the Schulich School of Medicine & Dentistry at Western University and former Head of Family Practice at UBC. Perimenopause has very variable and higher estrogen levels based on previous research by Prior and others at UBC Endocrinology’s Centre for Menstrual Cycle and Ovulation Research (www.cemcor.ubc.ca)."
 

Elie

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Interestingly, no mention of cycling the progesterone's (two weeks on, two weeks off).
 

David PS

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Interestingly, no mention of cycling the progesterone's (two weeks on, two weeks off).
I asked the question at https://peatbot.com/ and here the results. One week off may be sufficient.

DISCLAIMER: You are not talking to a human. You are talking with a robot. The robot is frequently wrong on even basic medical issues. By using this website you realize and take full responsibility for your actions. Nothing here is intended as medical advice. If you sue me for any reason, you accept an unremovable curse upon yourself and your bloodline.

User: does progesterone need to be cycled

PeatBot: Yes, according to the information provided, it is recommended to cycle progesterone. The cycling function of progesterone is important, especially for women, as it helps to interrupt the continuous influence of estrogen. Continuous and uninterrupted exposure to estrogen, even in small amounts, can eventually be carcinogenic. By cycling progesterone, the estrogen cycle is completely stopped, allowing the tissue to gather itself together and preventing the carcinogenic effects of estrogen.

When progesterone is taken steadily without interruption, the liver interprets the constant high level of progesterone as excessive. As a result, the liver produces enzymes to excrete the progesterone. After two weeks of continuous use, the liver builds up excretory enzymes that inactivate the progesterone, making the effect of a given dose weaker.

Stopping progesterone for at least a week allows the liver to reset its threshold for excreting progesterone. This means that when you resume taking progesterone after the break, you will get more effectiveness from the same dose. Therefore, cycling progesterone by taking it for a certain period and then stopping for a week is recommended to optimize its benefits.
 

Elie

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I asked the question at https://peatbot.com/ and here the results. One week off may be sufficient.

DISCLAIMER: You are not talking to a human. You are talking with a robot. The robot is frequently wrong on even basic medical issues. By using this website you realize and take full responsibility for your actions. Nothing here is intended as medical advice. If you sue me for any reason, you accept an unremovable curse upon yourself and your bloodline.

User: does progesterone need to be cycled

PeatBot: Yes, according to the information provided, it is recommended to cycle progesterone. The cycling function of progesterone is important, especially for women, as it helps to interrupt the continuous influence of estrogen. Continuous and uninterrupted exposure to estrogen, even in small amounts, can eventually be carcinogenic. By cycling progesterone, the estrogen cycle is completely stopped, allowing the tissue to gather itself together and preventing the carcinogenic effects of estrogen.

When progesterone is taken steadily without interruption, the liver interprets the constant high level of progesterone as excessive. As a result, the liver produces enzymes to excrete the progesterone. After two weeks of continuous use, the liver builds up excretory enzymes that inactivate the progesterone, making the effect of a given dose weaker.

Stopping progesterone for at least a week allows the liver to reset its threshold for excreting progesterone. This means that when you resume taking progesterone after the break, you will get more effectiveness from the same dose. Therefore, cycling progesterone by taking it for a certain period and then stopping for a week is recommended to optimize its benefits.
helpful. Thanks.
 

Peater

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So do aromatase inhibitors crash progesterone too? I gave myself night sweats years ago with aromasin when I tried it for the T boosting effects.
 

Ania

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I can confirm the results.
I am a 50 yo woman. I lost my period in February. In April I started experiencing hot flashes, dizziness, luck of appetite, night sweats and disturbed sleep.
I used Progest e in the past, but it always gave me sore breasts, so I stopped each time after 2 or 3 months.
However I decided to give it a try in this new situation.
It worked like magic.
I use it 3 weeks on 1week off.
All symptoms disappeared.
In June my period returned.
It is not so unusual to have some occasional bleeding after period ceases, so maybe it is just that.
Anyway, my well-being is much better on Progesterone, and I do not experience sore breasts anymore.
 

Peatress

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I won't be using that PeatBot

Ray on cycling progesterone

I think it's most effective when you take it cyclically; imitating the menstrual cycle, with two week on and two off, would be good, unless you are using it to control some symptom. Ray Peat
 

Happycat

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I won't be using that PeatBot

Ray on cycling progesterone

I think it's most effective when you take it cyclically; imitating the menstrual cycle, with two week on and two off, would be good, unless you are using it to control some symptom. Ray Peat
I guess all or most perimenopausal or post menopausal women use it to control symptoms. So does this mean it can be used continuously? Or with a shorter break?
 

Peatress

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I guess all or most perimenopausal or post menopausal women use it to control symptoms. So does this mean it can be used continuously? Or with a shorter break?
I heard Peat say it can be used continuously to control symptoms. Some people also take only one week off rather than two weeks.
 

Ildikó

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Every time I see a study like this I catch myself singing the glorious Queen lyrics "...another one bites the dust". In this case, what bytes the dust is the pernicious myth that estrogen deficiency drives many of the features of menopause - from the more benign symptoms such as insomnia, night sweats, irritability and loss of libido to the more serious ones such as cardiovascular disease (CVD), dementia, autoimmune conditions, etc. A recent study I posted about already demonstrated that it is low androgens, not low estrogens, that are linked to increased CVD rates. Now, the study below demonstrates that it is low progesterone, not low estrogen, that drives the insomnia and night sweats that are so common among peri- and menopausal women. Unlike the CVD study I mentioned above, this study was actually an intervention trial, meaning it administered biodentical progesterone (P4) and found it ameliorated those symptoms while simultaneously citing the failure of prior studies with estrogen administration to elicit similar benefit. Thus, the only reasonable conclusions here are: 1) menopause is likely not a condition of estrogen deficit, 2) progesterone is the true protective factor lost in menopause and replenishing its levels is warranted in order to improve the health in peri- and menopausal women. In fact, the study itself notes that at least as far as peri-menopause is concerned, estrogen is usually higher, not lower, compared to health pre-menopausal women and it is the higher estrogen driving symptoms such as "...heavy flow, sore breasts, and migraine headaches". While the study does not mention it, I would also like to add that there have been numerous trials with synthetic progestins and they have also generally failed to improve those symptoms. So, it is only bio-identical progesterone that has so far been demonstrated to be beneficial, despite what Big Pharma has been broadcasting for decades in regards to their "just like progesterone, only better" synthetic progestogenic poisons.

http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/s41598-023-35826-w
Progesterone decreases night sweats & improves sleep in perimenopausal women

"...“This guideline assumes that hormone levels and symptoms are the same in the early years of menopause and in menstruating perimenopausal women,” according to co-author, Dr. Michelle Fung, endocrinologist at William Osler Health System, Ontario. “Although menopausal women have low hormone levels, perimenopausal women may experience heavy flow, sore breasts, and migraine headaches related to higher estrogen levels” Dr. Fung added. “No previous study has even attempted to investigate MHT as a perimenopausal VMS treatment,” stated author, Andrea Cameron, research-nurse investigator who coordinated this study. “Current assumption is that hot flushes are caused by low estrogen in both perimenopause and menopause, thus estrogen therapy would be effective.” They just assumed that hot flushes are caused by low estrogen levels, thus estrogen therapy would be effective.” “Previous studies treating perimenopausal hot flushes have not been successful. These include trials of low-dose birth control pills or estrogen as a skin gel,” co-author Christine L Hitchcock, PhD, research-consultant in Oakville, Ontario asserted. “All studies to date, including ours, studied too few perimenopausal women because perimenopausal VMS are much more variable than menopausal ones. Consequently, despite almost 200 participants, our primary outcome was not statistically different between Progesterone and placebo.” “The significant results for night sweats and sleep on Progesterone were from a planned secondary outcome asking women at study-end to assess changes they perceived,” stated principal investigator and endocrinology professor at the University of British Columbia, Dr. Jerilynn C. Prior. “Although some reviewers ascribed both night sweat and sleep improvements to Progesterone’s known actions to increase deep sleep, that doesn’t explain the significantly decreased intensity of daytime VMS that women also perceived.” “Given the evidence, and urgent need for effective treatment of perimenopausal VMS, a physician can reasonably prescribe a trial of 300 mg of oral micronized progesterone for a menstruating woman having night sweats waking her twice a week or more frequently,” according to Dr. Carol Herbert, Professor emerita, former Dean of the Schulich School of Medicine & Dentistry at Western University and former Head of Family Practice at UBC. Perimenopause has very variable and higher estrogen levels based on previous research by Prior and others at UBC Endocrinology’s Centre for Menstrual Cycle and Ovulation Research (www.cemcor.ubc.ca)."
I can buy the big pharma's micronized progesterone in my country for a very reasonable price. Is it also good enough for a postmenopausal woman who had bilateral ovariectomy?
Should i take it with 1-2 weeks break?
I recon i would have to take it now forever.
 

Happycat

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I can buy the big pharma's micronized progesterone in my country for a very reasonable price. Is it also good enough for a postmenopausal woman who had bilateral ovariectomy?
Should i take it with 1-2 weeks break?
I recon i would have to take it now forever.
Is it Utrogestan? If it is then yes, that is bio identical. It's up to you how long a break you want to take, depending on the symptoms.
 
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This is interesting... I use Progest-E two weeks on two weeks off as woman still cycling. I always have a few nights where I wake up really hot and sweaty during the two weeks where I use progesterone and the only thing that will stop the hot flash is to immediately take a few more drops Progest-E. I can usually cool down and get back to sleep after. I interpreted this as some days (the days I have a hot flash) I might need more progesterone than I have taken, maybe due to higher stress
 

Ildikó

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Is it Utrogestan? If it is then yes, that is bio identical. It's up to you how long a break you want to take, depending on the symptoms.
It is called Progesterone Exeltis, micronized progesterone, avaliable in 100 and 200 mg soft capsules.
Dr Peat mentioned that our liver excretes a lot of it when taken without break but he also said somewhere if a woman has no ovaries she can take it continously.
It is a little bit confusing, surely our liver gets use to it too.
May be he meant when using it transdermaly.
🙂
 

kimbriel

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I won't be using that PeatBot

Ray on cycling progesterone

I think it's most effective when you take it cyclically; imitating the menstrual cycle, with two week on and two off, would be good, unless you are using it to control some symptom. Ray Peat
I think that's true, but you can also do 3 weeks on, 1 week off if you're in perimenopause or menopause. I just want my period back, man.
 
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