Lost My Way Trying To Cope With Heart Disease Need Help Badly

[Elderflower j58]

@RichardDobson
I looked at the Pauling research
A few years ago and was hugely impressed

I thinkI got carried along by the K2 angle on heart disease
And in doing so let the original cause ( inflammation)
Get sidelined.
I'm 61 years old and my mental health is not great
So this is difficult for me and there is so much to take in

Looks like I'm going to have to attack this from all angles
It's abit scary but I'm strong enough I hope.

 

[TreasureVibe]

Don’t you think excessive polyunsaturated fatty acids in the LPL membrane also plays a causal role? The polyunsaturated fatty acids in the phospholipids of the LPL particles tend to oxidize if they spend too much time in the blood (sluggish LPL metabolism) and also if they get into the artirial tissue. Once they oxidize, Lp(a) comes in to mop up the oxidized polyunsaturated fats to clear them out. The Lp(a) and loss of phospholipids then cause LPL particles to become smaller and more dense. Smaller dense LPL particles penetrate artirial tissue easier and the cycle repeats.

PUFA plays a role too. But the only way to treat that is vitamin E. But vitamin E cannot reverse CHD, while the vitamin C, Lysine, Proline combo can.

 

[SOMO]

@RichardDobson
I looked at the Pauling research
A few years ago and was hugely impressed

I thinkI got carried along by the K2 angle on heart disease
And in doing so let the original cause ( inflammation)
Get sidelined.
I'm 61 years old and my mental health is not great
So this is difficult for me and there is so much to take in

Looks like I'm going to have to attack this from all angles
It's abit scary but I'm strong enough I hope.

The good news is that the emotional stability often comes when you get your gut in check.

I have noticed mental improvements (cognitive performance as well as positive mood) from simply eating healthier. And the more you dedicate yourself to improving your health, you will start to understand how your body reacts to certain foods and you can adjust accordingly.

Most health problems don't have a quick-fix in the sense that "take Vitamin X and cure condition Y". It's more like "take Vitamin X, herb B, make sure your blood sugar does not fall, take regular hot baths with epsom salts, meditate, keep good company/friends, etc." to make a dent in the condition. And all of these things usually have to be done at the same time, or at least it seems to work better when you're doing a multi-faceted approach.

 

[Travis]

I think you should read the articles by Linus Pauling, who had outlined what I consider the actual mechanism behind the condition. In a nutshell, ascorbate deficiency lowers pro-collagen synthesis and in its absence the arterial wall loses structural support. To cope with lowered arterial strength, the liver will upregulate Lp(a) when it ascorbate levels decline. This apo-lipoprotein is similar to fibrinogen and has a 'lysine kringle,' lending it the ability to stick to the arterial wall where the collagen is frayed (had gone un-repaired due to low ascorbate); this prevents blood loss and prolongs survival.

Prolonged ascorbate deficiency will lead to an excessive amount of artery-bound Lp(a),* and since it's a constituent of lipoproteins—primarily the LDL and VLDL fractions—it also contains cholesterol and triglycerides. Deposited Lp(a) could serve to nucleate other lipids and proteins, eventually leading to large agglomerate of protein–lipid on the arterial wall.

Cigarette smoke contains ~500·ppm nitric oxide, the reason why inhaling oxidizes vitamin C at a faster rate.

Besides ascorbate the pineapple contains bromelain, an absorbable proteolytic enzyme that helps to dissolve arterial plaques. Since pineapples are only $2 per fruit, are harmless, look cool, and are good, a person cannot lose by buying them (I buy them by the case and usually eat about two per day; I will testify in court that this is entirely safe).

[*] This is not to be confused with Lp(A). The the apo-protein sub-designated with the capital Roman 'A' is entirely distinct from that sub-designated with same letter in lowercase, or Lp(a).​

 

[TreasureVibe]

@RichardDobson
I looked at the Pauling research
A few years ago and was hugely impressed

I thinkI got carried along by the K2 angle on heart disease
And in doing so let the original cause ( inflammation)
Get sidelined.
I'm 61 years old and my mental health is not great
So this is difficult for me and there is so much to take in

Looks like I'm going to have to attack this from all angles
It's abit scary but I'm strong enough I hope.

Its primarily vitamin C deficiency, inflammation is what pokes the holes in the arterial walls and at the same time depletes the body of vitamin C as vitamin C is a natural anti-inflammatory, but if there are adequate vitamin C levels, the holes get repaired again. The fact that yours are fixed with cholesterol instead of vitamin C indicates a vitamin C deficiency. You need the full protocol to make it work and that is all there is to it, vitamin C, lysine, Proline. It wouldn't matter that much if your cholesterol is too high while doing this protocol as your fixing the root cause of your coronary heart disease. Sure getting them in check is good but vitamin C, lysine and Proline will make sure the high cholesterol can do no harm. I spoke to a man of about your age before who had high cholesterol in the blood but no coronary heart disease or any heart disease for that matter.

You'll be strong don't worry! You have knowledgeable people here who are willing to support you and help you through this.

 

[Elderflower j58]

Does my FCH have nothing to do with
My heart disease,also I thought that my saturate fat intake
Prevented oxidisation, should I go extreme low fat as well

 

[TreasureVibe]

Does my FCH have nothing to do with
My heart disease,also I thought that my saturate fat intake
Prevented oxidisation, should I go extreme low fat as well

I'd say the presence of it excarbates heart disease but the root cause of atherosclerotic heart disease is vitamin C deficiency. If the arterial wall is not frayed, lipids can't stick to it. If anyone thinks else, feel free to correct me.

I don't know if lowering fat intake is beneficial or not in your case, perhaps someone else could chime in.

 

[Wilfrid]

@Elderflower j58
Do you know your current PTH status?
Very strong interactions exist between PTH-collagen synthesis-insulin-calcium and thyroid. All of those play also a huge role in CVD.
I saw that your TSH is around 2, may I ask if you still have your gallbladder?
If so, lowering your TSH a bit should probably helping too.

 

[Amazoniac]

My lower body is often cold in the evenings,
I. Definitely don't eat enough fruit I thought the orange juice
Would cover that, Very little exercise and I've always had
Constipation.




Is nicotinic acid niacinamide
What could I take for motivation and some spark
To try and implement all the above things I've
Neglected

There you have it. Those are typical contributors.

Richard is suggesting calcium supplements but I disagree. With adequate vit D you can get away with even extremely low intakes of calcium. You seem to be already consuming a good deal of dairy, so any problem in the calcium department is probably a vit D issue.
I would consider first walking plenty and correcting vit D with an UV and b lamp (used along with Janelle's red light). This will help to control inflammation, improve the gut and stimulate appetite.

Regarding those nutrients, it's quite likely that some of them are missing. You can search for good food sources for each for a notion and only choose foods that you find appetizing. Frozen fruits can be convenient and they require little effort if this is also an issue.

Like it was mentioned, wearing clothes that keep very warm (including extremities) will help mitigate some of the problems. Keeping those heat lamps around is another possibility.

Raymond doesn't like nicotinic acid but it's one option to keep in mind if everything else that has been suggested isn't helping (I doubt).

Regarding motivation, keeping your expectations low will ensure that there's gratification on every progress made; and if something is bothering you, keep wondering how can it be improved, this way you also make sure that there's no settling.
A 'plan of attack' can be setting you up for a battle and framing it like that can be stressful (this thought is actually from a guy that used to be a 'pick up artist').

 

[Braveheart]

All you have to do to determine if your calcium is inadequate is by evaluating what you eat daily. You can use a mobile phone app called Cronometer which lets you put in any type of food and shows you what the total daily intake is of each nutrient like calcium.

You can also just simply Google the type of food with the words "amount of calcium" after it to see the calcium value, and then repeat this with each food you have taken and then total it.

You need around 2000 mg of dietary calcium daily according to Ray Peat if am not mistaken. If anyone else thinks this is wrong please let me know but I think this is what Ray Peat said.

So if your total daily dietary intake appears to be much lower, your calcium is low. Ray Peat stated you need 2000 mg of dietary calcium every day. However if you decide to use a calcium supplement, only use eggshell calcium or oyster shell calcium and make sure to take them with meals. Don't take them without meals, that could be dangerous. All the other calcium supplements are garbage according to Dr. Peat and according to research could be dangerous.

Taking 2000 mg of dietary calcium everyday fixed my mother's hypertension that the doctors had no answer to. Her lipids are good too, but she has no familial hyperlipidemia like you do..

The fact that you do makes it extra important you get your lipids in check.

Don't go above 2000 mg to be on the safe side and make sure your magnesium and potassium dietary intake is good too. Also keep using the fat soluble vitamins and especially vitamin K is indicated when upping your calcium so it's safe as vitamin K prevents arterial calcification. Don't overdo the vitamin K because that could cause too low calcium. Just use the recommendation on the bottle, the best form is Vitamin K2 mk-4. Vitamin K1 is very pro-thrombotic so watch out with that one and avoid it if possible.

Tracking your intake makes this all much easier...have learned a tremendous amt from it...puts you much more in control w all this information...you need to know where your are at w nutrients and supps...less stress too.

 

[sunraiser]

There you have it. Those are typical contributors.

Richard is suggesting calcium supplements but I disagree. With adequate vit D you can get away with even extremely low intakes of calcium. You seem to be already consuming a good deal of dairy, so any problem in the calcium department is probably a vit D issue.
I would consider first walking plenty and correcting vit D with an UV and b lamp (used along with Janelle's red light). This will help to control inflammation, improve the gut and stimulate appetite.

Regarding those nutrients, it's quite likely that some of them are missing. You can search for good food sources for each for a notion and only choose foods that you find appetizing. Frozen fruits can be convenient and they require little effort if this is also an issue.

Like it was mentioned, wearing clothes that keep very warm (including extremities) will help mitigate some of the problems. Keeping those heat lamps around is another possibility.

Raymond doesn't like nicotinic acid but it's one option to keep in mind if everything else that has been suggested isn't helping (I doubt).

Regarding motivation, keeping your expectations low will ensure that there's gratification on every progress made; and if something is bothering you, keep wondering how can it be improved, this way you also make sure that there's no settling.
A 'plan of attack' can be setting you up for a battle and framing it like that can be stressful (this thought is actually from a guy that used to be a 'pick up artist').

I agree with this. I also want to strongly reiterate do not, do not DO NOT force down 2000mg calcium. If you needed that much calcium you’d be eating that much as dairy is a no prep food source.

Try to very slowly increase vitamin D, ideally by sunshine but otherwise like 1k iu for a week then up to 2k. Shouldn’t need more than 4K. This will give you a chance to naturally balance vitamin D with vit A through dietary cravings. Have some eggs and maybe lamb liver to hand if you enjoy them. A little milk to taste\craving should supply you with some iodine. Less so if organic.

Do you eat greens or enjoy them? Vitamin K is necessary to activate vitamin A and D, they essentially don’t work without it and they’ll perhaps make you feel worse.

Find a way to get morning light in your eyes. Fast one evening if necessary and you’ll likely wake up hungry. Resolving your calcium, prolactin and dopamine issues through vitamin a, k and d will quell the addictive feelings and make smoking cessation easier.

This forum is probably doing you no favours right now - people are offering complex dietary theory and throwing a million different ideas at you when you’re already depressed and panicked.

You will be okay. The best possible thing for you is sunlight, try to spend as much time outside in the light as you can on sunny days. Get morning light. If sun starts feeling bad then go back inside. Eating big meals late will burden your liver more, however my morning appetite is also very low in vitamin D deficiency so sunshine will likely help morning appetite. Please GO SLOW. Take your vit D with fatty meals, or use the Uv/red light as suggested - I didn’t know they gave vitamin D...

Evening meal can be soup and white bread. Waitrose do a stoneground baguette with only asorbic acid as an additive. It uses white French flour. Not ideal but it digests well for me. It’s unpackaged in the bakery section.

I know how you feel about the overwhelming nature of food and healing when all the theory is thrown at you. Studies prove whatever they want to prove and you’ll find studies proving both sides of every argument. Eat what you crave but be careful of sugar and caffeine right now. Calcium carbonate will likely cause issues as it lowers stomach acid and worsens digestion, so not too many enriched foods if possible.

I promise you’ll get it if you stop making healing such a science. Everyone is well meaning here but many are also orthorxic - very well educated orthorexic!

 

[Elderflower j58]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hellenia-LP5-Powder-1kg-cadiovascular/dp/B06WVF8Z7Z/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1525022238&sr=8-1-spons&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=pr
oline,lysine&psc=1 any thoughts on this @Janelle525 @RichardDobson any one interested in pauling therapy

Thanks

 

[TreasureVibe]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hellenia-LP5-Powder-1kg-cadiovascular/dp/B06WVF8Z7Z/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1525022238&sr=8-1-spons&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=pr
oline,lysine&psc=1 any thoughts on this @Janelle525 @RichardDobson any one interested in pauling therapy

Thanks

Hmm, looks good. But it has no Quali-C, so it might be China made vitamin C, which can and will most likely contain contaminants. But, I don't know (can't tell without an analysis), you should contact the manufacturer and ask about the source of the vitamin C and production method. However it is affordable, and will work, don't be mistaken. But you will be taken contaminants with it as well, presumably, which can give allergy reactions.

I don't know about the hydrolyzed fish collagen, never really heard about it before, it's normally not included in the simple 3 nutrients protocol of Linus Pauling, but perhaps someone else here can fill in wether this nutrient is worth it.

There is a product that sells the Linus Pauling protocol all-in-one with Quali-C, but it ships from the USA and that can be quite expensive. I have used it before and my mother as well and it did make us feel alot better. Especially my mother. Her spider veins in her legs coincedentally also dissapeared while using it, so it worked. Her blood pressure (which was chronically high back then) also dropped to healthy levels sometimes while using it. It is this product:

Cardio-C Drink Mix (Inteligent*Vitamin*C) - $39.45 : Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce
And official website with testimonial: Cardio-C® Vitamin C Foundation Approved Drink Mix

But you can opt for the cheaper version you just posted. When taken everyday for a couple of months it would work just as well as the Cardio-C. Vitamin C = vitamin C. The only downside is possible contaminants in the vitamin C, which could give allergy symptoms. Contact the manufacturer to be sure. Or if you don't mind the risk of allergy reactions, you could try it. I used Now Foods sodium ascorbate before, which was probably China made as it was not Quali-C, and had no allergy symptoms in that short period that I used it. My mother used it however for less than a week and suffered from hives. So it's a hit or miss I think in that regard.

Ray Peat said that he had a cough for a year that wouldn't go away, and it coincided with a vitamin C supplement he was using. The cough dissapeared when he stopped the product. My guess is he used generic China made vitamin C.

L-Glycine is a Peaty nutrient and good for you. But not necessarily required either in the Pauling protocol.

 

[Amazoniac]

He also talks about remnant cholesterol
Which no doctor/cardio ever mentions,
According to his research this is the cholesterol
That is most atherogenic .

Any response from the science guys @Amazoniac
@haidut @Travis

?
Elder of the flowers, our semi-god (from Oregon, not the one from Wisconsin) mentioned that when the body slows down for whatever reason, damage starts happening and cholesterol increases from normal amounts not only because the production of protective hormones is decreased when thyroid is inadequate but also to try to ease those problems that eventually appear.

I left two posts here on what I would consider doing if I was in your position. Starting with daily activity, and an UVb along with a heat lamp; then trying to correct those possible deficiencies while adding extra support from specific nutrients.

DoctorYourself.com - B-Vitamins
"Niacin is not a magic cholesterol bullet, nor is cholesterol the only factor in heart disease. Niacin is PART of the picture, part of the B-vitamin team, and part of a total health program. Granted, niacin is indeed important. This is shown by even our inadequate US RDA, which recommends many times more niacin than any other B-vitamin. However, persons truly seeking to lower their cholesterol need to eat more fiber, more vegetables (especially carrots), more vitamins E and C, and to exercise more. They also need to eat less sugar, less fat, less meat, and reduce stress. There are ZERO harmful effects (and countless side BENEFITS) in taking these steps. "

 

[Birdie]

A take on orthomolecular medicine from Ray Peat:

Abram Hoffer, who had been treating schizophrenia and senile dementia with niacin, accidentally discovered that it cured his bleeding gums. That led to its use to treat heart disease.
The "orthomolecular" ideas of Hoffer and Linus Pauling were developed in a context of biochemistry governed by genetics, molecular biology, in which the goal was to provide a chemical that was lacking because of a genetic defect in metabolism. Their idea of using nutrients as drugs has led to many unphysiological practices, in which an isolated nutrient is supposed to have a drug-like action, and if in isolation it doesn't act like a drug, then it should be used only according to the normal genetically determined nutritional requirement.

From his newsletter copied to the forum by Charlie.
Rosacea, Inflammation, And Aging: The Inefficiency Of Stress
Discussion in 'Articles & Newsletters' started by charlie, Oct 29, 2013.

 

[Birdie]

@Elderflower j58
My daughter’s husband died last year. We have moved to a new area to be near her.

My husband has a heart valve that doesn’t work right, so I am often looking around to see what might help him. However, the Roseacea article caught my eye and there is plenty related to the heart there.

I like the way Ray constantly refers to food sources for vitamins and using physiological doses or short term larger doses of stuff. Spent most of my life with the orthomolecular approach.

But, I guess you have to go with the approach that calls to you.
Tried to put the orange emoji here, but no luck.

 

[TreasureVibe]

Actually glycine also adds to the Pauling protocol! The collagen triple-helix is made up of proline, lysine and glycine. So that product you posted sounds quite good.

 

[cdg]

I can't believe I'm saying this but honestly it looks like you are a perfect candidate for cholesterol lowering meds. If my family member had those numbers that's what I'd tell them. I only looked at the lipids/cholesterol and of course this isn't medical advice but you fit the criteria of high cholesterol from the 1970's before it was lowered to artificially create more customers. There's a small minority of people that have hereditary high cholesterol. I'm normally not in favor of statins but they do have their place. Like someone else mentioned already I'd consider coQ10. I think looking into the Dean Ornish nutrition approach to reversing heart disease might be useful too or just ultra low fat Peat eating.

I don't think anyone is a candidate for Cholesterol lowering drugs - its like saying some one is perfect candidate to use PUFAs.

There is a direct connection between the thyroid and heart disease. See "Solved: The Riddle of Heart Attacks" and "
Hypothyroidism: The Unsuspected Illness" both by Broda O. Barnes, M.D., Ph.D (attached)

Cholesterol numbers do mean something - they indicate hypothyroidism which in turn leads to heart disease! However, without the cholesterol the heart disease could be fatal. So high cholesterol while very protective especially when you are hypothyroid is a clear indicator that things are not all that kosher. Dr. Peat would say that low cholesterol should be very dangerous while high cholesterol should be ideal fodder to make various hormones while bringing it down when the thyroid function (respiration) is corrected. All other means of reducing cholesterol are dangerous as they don't address the underlying cause and you lose the protection that cholesterol provides.

See: Cholesterol, longevity, intelligence, and health.

I had the same 10.1 nmol/l and was able bring it down to 6 in few month by taking NDT. Hopefully it will continue to come down as my Temp and pulse improve.

You can have high cholesterol with good thyroid function and be off to the races which was quite common in the old days. However, the reason high cholesterol does not mean much is because many heart diseases happen to people with low cholesterol so the numbers don't pan out.

For more see: Bad News About Statin Drugs - Share The Wealth

 

[Terma]

@Elderflower j58
I don't have that much to add to all of the above, but did you ever get tested for Homocysteine levels? You can get it from doctor referral for heart disease, though insurance might not cover it. Treating Homocysteine is not known to fix heart disease but the two correlate and high levels could affect your quality of life in other ways.

In addition to Lysine/Proline you might want to look into high-dose Taurine (however many grams you tolerate, 1-6g/day). It has an impact on both cholesterol processing (toward bile acids), homocysteine levels, and potentially a ton of other cardiovascular parameters (including calcium handling). It's mostly found in seafood (but not nearly in high enough levels to treat disease, and people take too low doses from supplements) and I don't eat eggs without it.

(I have some family members with cardiovascular disease and heart attacks so I'll get back to you if they ever get specific results)

Good luck

 

[Blossom]

I don't think anyone is a candidate for Cholesterol lowering drugs - its like saying some one is perfect candidate to use PUFAs.

The true tragedy is that cholesterol lowering drugs have been grossly over prescribed to people who don't need them and could have easily solved their issues via fixing inflammation, thyroid/metabolism.
My dialogue with elderflower was contextual based on her having heart issues for 22 years and IIRC 8 stents placed already.
I agree with Peat, Barnes and Pauling and normalized my own cholesterol by fixing my thyroid but I do not have heart disease or stents and my highest total cholesterol was 250.