Kiwi Fruit = Highly SEROTONIN Boosting?

Lokzo

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Has anyone noticed high serotonin symptoms from eating Kiwi fruit? It consistently makes me sleepy and 2 kiwi fruit about an hour before bed dramatically improves my REM Sleep, which is not good for me, because more REM = Worse mood and energy the following day.

I found this:
"Although further research into the sleep-promoting mechanisms of kiwifruit is needed, several explanations for the effects of kiwifruit on sleep exist. Lin et al. (46) hypothesized that the high antioxidant capacity and serotonin and folate content of kiwifruit may contribute to the observed sleep benefits of kiwifruit consumption" -
Effects of Diet on Sleep Quality

And then this one:
Serotonin content of foods: effect on urinary excretion of 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid.
Using a highly specific radioenzymatic assay we determined the serotonin concentration in 80 types of foods. The following fruits had a high serotonin concentration (mean +/- SEM) expressed in micrograms/g weight: plantain 30.3 +/- 7.5; pineapple 17.0 +/- 5.1; banana 15.0 +/- 2.4; Kiwi fruit 5.8 +/- 0.9; plums 4.7 +/- 0.8; and tomatoes 3.2 +/- 0.6. Only nuts in the walnut or hickory family had a high serotonin concentration expressed in micrograms/g weight; butternuts 398 +/- 90; black walnuts 304 +/- 46; English walnuts 87 +/- 20; shagbark hickory nuts 143 +/- 23; mockernut hickory nuts 67 +/- 13; pecans 29 +/- 4; and sweet pignuts 25 +/- 8. Ingestion of these fruits and nuts resulted in an increase in urinary 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid excretion with no change in platelet serotonin concentration. The above foods should not be eaten while a urine is being collected for 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid analysis.
Serotonin content of foods: effect on urinary excretion of 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid. - PubMed - NCBI
 
Joined
Nov 18, 2018
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Has anyone noticed high serotonin symptoms from eating Kiwi fruit? It consistently makes me sleepy and 2 kiwi fruit about an hour before bed dramatically improves my REM Sleep, which is not good for me, because more REM = Worse mood and energy the following day.

I found this:
"Although further research into the sleep-promoting mechanisms of kiwifruit is needed, several explanations for the effects of kiwifruit on sleep exist. Lin et al. (46) hypothesized that the high antioxidant capacity and serotonin and folate content of kiwifruit may contribute to the observed sleep benefits of kiwifruit consumption" -
Effects of Diet on Sleep Quality

And then this one:
Serotonin content of foods: effect on urinary excretion of 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid.
Using a highly specific radioenzymatic assay we determined the serotonin concentration in 80 types of foods. The following fruits had a high serotonin concentration (mean +/- SEM) expressed in micrograms/g weight: plantain 30.3 +/- 7.5; pineapple 17.0 +/- 5.1; banana 15.0 +/- 2.4; Kiwi fruit 5.8 +/- 0.9; plums 4.7 +/- 0.8; and tomatoes 3.2 +/- 0.6. Only nuts in the walnut or hickory family had a high serotonin concentration expressed in micrograms/g weight; butternuts 398 +/- 90; black walnuts 304 +/- 46; English walnuts 87 +/- 20; shagbark hickory nuts 143 +/- 23; mockernut hickory nuts 67 +/- 13; pecans 29 +/- 4; and sweet pignuts 25 +/- 8. Ingestion of these fruits and nuts resulted in an increase in urinary 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid excretion with no change in platelet serotonin concentration. The above foods should not be eaten while a urine is being collected for 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid analysis.
Serotonin content of foods: effect on urinary excretion of 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid. - PubMed - NCBI
I haven't noticed a serotonin response. It just helps me sleep better.
 

olive

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May 17, 2018
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This is borderline orthorexic behaviour. There’s no way some fruit significantly effected your behaviour/mood via serotonin. Look into the many posts by Travis on the fernstrom ratio which disproves this ‘theory’.
 

Herbie

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Ray mentions some fruits being able to increase noticeble serotonin in sensitive people and talks about the growing conditions of the fruit, bananas for example grown under high stress and that increasing serotonin of fruit. Not sure if the fernstrom ratio is relevant in this context, not denying fernstrom ratio or Travis’s work.

I know plants will flower when put under huge stress for self preservation
 

olive

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Ray mentions some fruits being able to increase noticeble serotonin in sensitive people and talks about the growing conditions of the fruit, bananas for example grown under high stress and that increasing serotonin of fruit. Not sure if the fernstrom ratio is relevant in this context, not denying fernstrom ratio or Travis’s work.

I know plants will flower when put under huge stress for self preservation
Ray says a lot of wacky things.
 

olive

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He believes PUFA is preferentially stored though every study in HUMANS show the exact opposite.
His deathly afraid of iodine supplementation even though it’s relatively safe and beneficial in most scenarios.
He has the cause and effect of beta-carotene > thyroid issues backward.
He believes serotonin in food somehow has meaningful effect upon consumption.

When we start to look at his hormone recommendations things get even more whacky because he doesn’t seem to be able to differentiate between estrogen subtypes or understand binding affinities.

A great thinker but liable to make mistakes like any other. Don’t take his word as gospel; perceive, think, act.
 

burtlancast

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He believes PUFA is preferentially stored though every study in HUMANS show the exact opposite.

Interesting.
Could you point to some studies ?
 

Herbie

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Jun 7, 2016
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He believes PUFA is preferentially stored though every study in HUMANS show the exact opposite.
His deathly afraid of iodine supplementation even though it’s relatively safe and beneficial in most scenarios.
He has the cause and effect of beta-carotene > thyroid issues backward.
He believes serotonin in food somehow has meaningful effect upon consumption.

When we start to look at his hormone recommendations things get even more whacky because he doesn’t seem to be able to differentiate between estrogen subtypes or understand binding affinities.

A great thinker but liable to make mistakes like any other. Don’t take his word as gospel; perceive, think, act.

Is it mistakes or context, is everything black and white?

“High iodine intake can suppress TSH, and since high TSH is pro-inflammatory, the iodine can have some protective anti-inflammatory actions, but in the long run, the thyroid suppression becomes a problem.” - Ray Peat. Not black and white.

Are all the references carotine on this website completely wrong? Or is it context?
Carotenemia & Hypothyroidism – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

Have you asked him about the binding sights? Its interesting.

I think context is important and like his caution about serotonin, it doesn’t mean everyone should avoid bananas, tomatos and pineapples, he says some people may be effected, He comes from a duty or care. I shared that for the OP its not my own opinion but take your own advice and don’t take his words as gospel and percieve think act. I bet you enjoy being told to do that as much as I did.
 
Last edited:

MatheusPN

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Is it mistakes or context, is everything black and white?

“High iodine intake can suppress TSH, and since high TSH is pro-inflammatory, the iodine can have some protective anti-inflammatory actions, but in the long run, the thyroid suppression becomes a problem.” - Ray Peat. Not black and white.

Are all the references carotine on this website completely wrong? Or is it context?
Carotenemia & Hypothyroidism – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

Have you asked him about the binding sights? Its interesting.

I think context is important and like his caution about serotonin, it doesn’t mean everyone should avoid bananas, tomatos and pineapples, he says some people may be effected, He comes from a duty or care. I shared that for the OP its not my own opinion but take your own advice and don’t take his words as gospel and percieve think act. I bet you enjoy being told to do that as much as I did.
Great, thanks!! Much more informative than what I would reply
False truth, lies or defamation and slighting against Ray is/almost rampant here this year...
 
Last edited:

ebs

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This is borderline orthorexic behaviour. There’s no way some fruit significantly effected your behaviour/mood via serotonin. Look into the many posts by Travis on the fernstrom ratio which disproves this ‘theory’.

Agreed. I never noticed any detrimental effects from kiwis and bananas. If anything I get cold hands and feet from other tropical fruits such as oranges.

Only pinnaple seem to cause some subtle temporary (seemingly) serotonin effects but all these fruits are supposed to be eaten by us.
 

Jav1e

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I don't know, but kiwi is high in vitamin k, c and potassium, 2 kiwis has approximately 50 micrograms of vitamin k 120 milligrams of vitamin c and 400 milligrams of potassium. I take it almost daily along with whole milk to improve the absorption of vitamin k and it feels great.

You can combine it with gelatin to reduce serotonin.
 

tankasnowgod

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His deathly afraid of iodine supplementation even though it’s relatively safe and beneficial in most scenarios.

No, he's not. He has cautioned against higher dose iodine supplementation, which he defined at 1mg per day, even while admitting that doses higher than this can be theraputic.

I wrote to RP after listening to this episode (because I had been supplementing Nascent Iodine for months and with good effects, along with thyroid hormone) and I didn't think he really explained the negatives of iodine enough.

Here was his response to my email, in case you are interested:

Large doses of iodine can be safe when used for a short time therapeutically, but one milligram or more per day, for a long period of time, is likely to harm the thyroid gland. Nascent (“newborn”) iodine can exist in a laboratory set-up, but it’s short-lived, and doesn’t continue in that state when it’s sold as a product. The incidence of thyroid cancer has doubled in the last 30 to 40 years, and it’s the most rapidly increasing cancer in the US.

If you go to that quote, you can see some of the studies he emailed to Lindsay.
 
Joined
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I don't know, but kiwi is high in vitamin k, c and potassium, 2 kiwis has approximately 50 micrograms of vitamin k 120 milligrams of vitamin c and 400 milligrams of potassium. I take it almost daily along with whole milk to improve the absorption of vitamin k and it feels great.

You can combine it with gelatin to reduce serotonin.

Yes sir, it's a powerhouse of certain minerals, select vitamins, sugar, and the proteolytic enzyme actinidain.

One downside once mentioned was the oxalate content. But according to the following food list, kiwis barely stand out:
Oxalate-content-of-foods.png
 

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