Ray Peat - Plantains, Orange Juice, Watermelon

Discussion in 'Fruits' started by charlie, Aug 6, 2012.

  1. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

    Jan 4, 2012
    When chatting with Dr. Ray Peat and trying to find some relief from my chronic inflammation he asked me about my diet. So I gave it to him and he saw that I was eating plantains, OJ, and watermelon. This was his response, also take note of what he bolded in the studies he attached.


    "Plantains are very proinflammatory, with a high serotonin content; commercial orange juice, especially if it doesn't separate when standing for a few hours, can produce bowel irritation by supporting bacterial growth because of the suspended modified fiber, and watermelons that aren't perfectly ripe have enough starch to cause problems, though very ripe watermelon is safe."

    1. J Chromatogr A. 2011 Jun 24;1218(25):3890-9. Epub 2011 Apr 27.
    Simultaneous analysis of serotonin, melatonin, piceid and resveratrol in fruits
    using liquid chromatography tandem mass spectrometry.
    Huang X, Mazza G.
    Pacific Agri-Food Research Centre, Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, Summerland,
    British Columbia, Canada.
    An analytical method was developed for the simultaneous quantification of
    serotonin, melatonin, trans- and cis-piceid, and trans- and cis-resveratrol using
    reversed-phase high performance liquid chromatography coupled to mass
    spectrometry (HPLC-MS) with electrospray ionization (ESI) in both positive and
    negative ionization modes. HPLC optimal analytical separation was achieved using
    a mixture of acetonitrile and water with 0.1% formic acid as the mobile phase in
    linear gradient elution. The mass spectrometry parameters were optimized for
    reliable quantification and the enhanced selectivity and sensitivity selected
    reaction monitoring mode (SRM) was applied. For extraction, the direct analysis
    of initial methanol extracts was compared with further ethyl acetate extraction.
    In order to demonstrate the applicability of this analytical method, serotonin,
    melatonin, trans- and cis-piceid, and trans- and cis-resveratrol from 24 kinds of
    commonly consumed fruits were quantified. The highest serotonin content was found
    in plantain,
    while orange bell peppers had the highest melatonin content. Grape
    samples possessed higher trans- and cis-piceid, and trans- and cis-resveratrol
    contents than the other fruits. The results indicate that the combination of
    HPLC-MS detection and simple sample preparation allows the rapid and accurate
    quantification of serotonin, melatonin, trans- and cis-piceid, and trans- and
    cis-resveratrol in fruits.
    Copyright © 2011 Elsevier B.V. All rights reserved.

    2. Exp Physiol. 1997 May;82(3):501-6.
    Direct vascular effects of plantain extract in rats.
    Orie NN.
    Department of Physiology, College of Medical Sciences, University of Calabar,
    Responses of the aorta and portal veins isolated from rats to aqueous extract of
    plantain (Musa paradisiaca) were studied. The extract produced
    concentration-dependent relaxation in both noradrenaline- and KCl-contracted
    aortic rings. The maximum relaxation in noradrenaline-contracted rings was 52.49
    +/- 6.63% and in KCl-contracted rings was 77.51 +/- 2.52% of the initial tensions
    developed in response to the contractile agents. The extract also produced
    significant (P < 0.01) inhibition of the maximum aortic contractile response to
    noradrenaline and completely abolished the spontaneous contractions of the portal
    veins. Serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine), unlike the extract, produced contraction
    rather than relaxation of the aortic rings. The results show a non-specific
    relaxing and inhibiting effect of plantain extract on aortic and portal smooth
    muscles, an effect that is not attributable to its abundant serotonin content.

    3. Br Heart J. 1970 Sep;32(5):671-4.
    The pathogenesis of endomyocardial fibrosis: the question of 5-hydroxytryptamine.
    Ojo GO.
    Thirty Nigerians with established endomyocardial fibrosis were studied. Basal
    serum 5-hydroxytryptamine levels were estimated on three different occasions at
    one-monthly intervals. Twentyfour hours before each estimation, dietary staples
    containing 5-hydroxytryptamine were excluded from the diet. Subsequently the
    patients were fed on a plantain diet and serum levels of 5-hydroxytryptamine were
    estimated at one- and three-hour intervals after plantain ingestion.
    5-hydroxytryptamine was assayed on the fundal strip of rat's stomach. These
    values were compared with those obtained in an earlier study on healthy
    Nigerians. It was observed that, as in healthy Nigerians, no significant increase
    in serum 5-hydroxytryptamine levels occurred in these patients after plantain
    ingestion. The difference between endomyocardial fibrosis and carcinoid heart
    disease is underlined and it is emphasized that no correlation exists between the
    incidence of endomyocardial fibrosis and the high content of 5-hydroxytryptamine
    in the local dietary staples.

    7. West Afr Med J Niger Pract. 1969 Oct;18(5):174-5.
    Plantain meals and serum 5-hydroxytryptamine in healthy Nigerians.
    Ojo GO.

    8. Johns Hopkins Med J. 1968 Feb;122(2):87-93.
    Etiology of endomyocardial fibrosis: an experimental evaluation of plantain
    ingestion and chronic lymphatic obstruction.
    Antia AU, Talbert JL, Paplanus SH.

    9. Am Heart J. 1967 Mar;73(3):432-4.
    Plantain diets, serotonin, and endomyocardial fibrosis.
    Shaper AG.

    10. Lancet. 1965 Oct 30;2(7418):880-2.
    Fibrosis in guineapig heart produced by plantain diet.
    McKinney B, Crawford MA.

    11. J Pharm Pharmacol. 1960 Jun;12:360-4.
    A note on the presence of noradrenaline and 5-hydroxytryptamine in plantain (Musa
    sapientum, var. paradisiaca).

    12. J Am Diet Assoc. 1987 Aug;87(8):1031-5.
    Catecholamine and serotonin content of foods: effect on urinary excretion of
    homovanillic and 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid.
    Feldman JM, Lee EM, Castleberry CA.

    13. Am J Clin Nutr. 1985 Oct;42(4):639-43.
    Serotonin content of foods: effect on urinary excretion of 5-hydroxyindoleacetic
    Feldman JM, Lee EM.
    Using a highly specific radioenzymatic assay we determined the serotonin
    concentration in 80 types of foods. The following fruits had a high serotonin
    concentration (mean +/- SEM) expressed in micrograms/g weight: plantain 30.3 +/-
    7.5; pineapple 17.0 +/- 5.1; banana 15.0 +/- 2.4; Kiwi fruit 5.8 +/- 0.9; plums
    4.7 +/- 0.8; and tomatoes 3.2 +/- 0.6. Only nuts in the walnut or hickory family
    had a high serotonin concentration expressed in micrograms/g weight; butternuts
    398 +/- 90; black walnuts 304 +/- 46; English walnuts 87 +/- 20; shagbark hickory
    nuts 143 +/- 23; mockernut hickory nuts 67 +/- 13; pecans 29 +/- 4; and sweet
    pignuts 25 +/- 8. Ingestion of these fruits and nuts resulted in an increase in
    urinary 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid excretion with no change in platelet serotonin
    concentration. The above foods should not be eaten while a urine is being
    collected for 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid analysis.
  2. narouz

    narouz Member

    Jul 22, 2012
    That was cool. :shock:
  3. OP

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

    Jan 4, 2012
    I actually already had it ready to go in a draft and when you asked about plantains you reminded me to post it. :lol:
  4. Rem

    Rem Member

    Jul 26, 2012
    I've had some problems with seedless watermelon which seemed ripe though. I wonder if the seedless variety could be allergenic in itself. Thank you for sharing Charlie.
  5. bradley

    bradley Member

    Aug 16, 2012
    i love grilled and mashed sweet ripe plantains. I wonder if the serotonin content varies with the ripeness. When i was 811/raw vegan i ate upwards of 25 bananas a day for months. That would be a lot of serotonin, yet i didn't notice any harmful side effects. they were very ripe.

  6. key

    key Member

    Jan 27, 2013
    Charlie is having inflammation issues so could be bad for him and tolerable for you.
  7. gretchen

    gretchen Member

    Nov 30, 2012
    Aren't plantains just like bananas? Why would anyone eat bananas if they could have oranges or oj?
  8. key

    key Member

    Jan 27, 2013
    taste, variety, i think bananas are better cooked unless 811ripe
  9. Amosya

    Amosya Member

    Jan 24, 2013
    I don't know about plantains as I usually have bananas,... but not much really, except the other day I suddenly developed an urge to eat grilled bananas!!!! The craving to have them grilled was incredible!!
    As to the fact that as long you have the plantains, orange juice or watermelon completely ripe... it is not an easy thing to do nowadays! They are usually sold before ripened for the business sake.
  10. onioneyedox

    onioneyedox Member

    Nov 18, 2012
    According to Wikipedia, plantains, bananas and other high serotonin fruits have around 3-30mg of serotonin per kg. On the other hand tryptophan contents on almost everything is around 1-2% of total protein. This leads me to think that serotonin in food is possibly insignificant compared what we can produce ourselves.

    Isn't high serotonin production in gut meant to make the bad food to clear out faster (diarrhea)? If fruit serotonin was significant factor shouldn't that happen to everyone consistently? On the contrary, most everyone I know have no trouble with bananas.

    I think it's the irritants or foods one can't digest properly that cause stress in GI track and the production of harmful amounts of serotonin.

    Wiki says latex allergic people may get reaction from bananas. I remember Ray also writing about natural gums in them.

    I continue eating bananas (not 30 a day) as they are quite cheap and nutritious and cause me no trouble.

    Just quickly glanced over http://www.scq.ubc.ca/the-pursuit-of-ha ... -too-many/ (was linked from wiki), seems to have some interesting facts. Maybe the serotonin content rises as the banana ripens, as does dopamin content. Or maybe not as it is not mentioned, though the reaction looks same.

    PS. banana and plantain seem practically same on this regard so I just looked on banana. Maybe plantain is harder to digest as it is apparently more starchy?