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Ray Peat - Plantains, Orange Juice, Watermelon

charlie

The Law & Order Admin
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
12,542
Location
USA
When chatting with Dr. Ray Peat and trying to find some relief from my chronic inflammation he asked me about my diet. So I gave it to him and he saw that I was eating plantains, OJ, and watermelon. This was his response, also take note of what he bolded in the studies he attached.



"Plantains are very proinflammatory, with a high serotonin content; commercial orange juice, especially if it doesn't separate when standing for a few hours, can produce bowel irritation by supporting bacterial growth because of the suspended modified fiber, and watermelons that aren't perfectly ripe have enough starch to cause problems, though very ripe watermelon is safe."

1. J Chromatogr A. 2011 Jun 24;1218(25):3890-9. Epub 2011 Apr 27.
Simultaneous analysis of serotonin, melatonin, piceid and resveratrol in fruits
using liquid chromatography tandem mass spectrometry.
Huang X, Mazza G.
Pacific Agri-Food Research Centre, Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, Summerland,
British Columbia, Canada.
An analytical method was developed for the simultaneous quantification of
serotonin, melatonin, trans- and cis-piceid, and trans- and cis-resveratrol using
reversed-phase high performance liquid chromatography coupled to mass
spectrometry (HPLC-MS) with electrospray ionization (ESI) in both positive and
negative ionization modes. HPLC optimal analytical separation was achieved using
a mixture of acetonitrile and water with 0.1% formic acid as the mobile phase in
linear gradient elution. The mass spectrometry parameters were optimized for
reliable quantification and the enhanced selectivity and sensitivity selected
reaction monitoring mode (SRM) was applied. For extraction, the direct analysis
of initial methanol extracts was compared with further ethyl acetate extraction.
In order to demonstrate the applicability of this analytical method, serotonin,
melatonin, trans- and cis-piceid, and trans- and cis-resveratrol from 24 kinds of
commonly consumed fruits were quantified. The highest serotonin content was found
in plantain,
while orange bell peppers had the highest melatonin content. Grape
samples possessed higher trans- and cis-piceid, and trans- and cis-resveratrol
contents than the other fruits. The results indicate that the combination of
HPLC-MS detection and simple sample preparation allows the rapid and accurate
quantification of serotonin, melatonin, trans- and cis-piceid, and trans- and
cis-resveratrol in fruits.
Copyright © 2011 Elsevier B.V. All rights reserved.

2. Exp Physiol. 1997 May;82(3):501-6.
Direct vascular effects of plantain extract in rats.
Orie NN.
Department of Physiology, College of Medical Sciences, University of Calabar,
Nigeria.
Responses of the aorta and portal veins isolated from rats to aqueous extract of
plantain (Musa paradisiaca) were studied. The extract produced
concentration-dependent relaxation in both noradrenaline- and KCl-contracted
aortic rings. The maximum relaxation in noradrenaline-contracted rings was 52.49
+/- 6.63% and in KCl-contracted rings was 77.51 +/- 2.52% of the initial tensions
developed in response to the contractile agents. The extract also produced
significant (P < 0.01) inhibition of the maximum aortic contractile response to
noradrenaline and completely abolished the spontaneous contractions of the portal
veins. Serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine), unlike the extract, produced contraction
rather than relaxation of the aortic rings. The results show a non-specific
relaxing and inhibiting effect of plantain extract on aortic and portal smooth
muscles, an effect that is not attributable to its abundant serotonin content.

3. Br Heart J. 1970 Sep;32(5):671-4.
The pathogenesis of endomyocardial fibrosis: the question of 5-hydroxytryptamine.
Ojo GO.
Thirty Nigerians with established endomyocardial fibrosis were studied. Basal
serum 5-hydroxytryptamine levels were estimated on three different occasions at
one-monthly intervals. Twentyfour hours before each estimation, dietary staples
containing 5-hydroxytryptamine were excluded from the diet. Subsequently the
patients were fed on a plantain diet and serum levels of 5-hydroxytryptamine were
estimated at one- and three-hour intervals after plantain ingestion.
5-hydroxytryptamine was assayed on the fundal strip of rat's stomach. These
values were compared with those obtained in an earlier study on healthy
Nigerians. It was observed that, as in healthy Nigerians, no significant increase
in serum 5-hydroxytryptamine levels occurred in these patients after plantain
ingestion. The difference between endomyocardial fibrosis and carcinoid heart
disease is underlined and it is emphasized that no correlation exists between the
incidence of endomyocardial fibrosis and the high content of 5-hydroxytryptamine
in the local dietary staples.

7. West Afr Med J Niger Pract. 1969 Oct;18(5):174-5.
Plantain meals and serum 5-hydroxytryptamine in healthy Nigerians.
Ojo GO.

8. Johns Hopkins Med J. 1968 Feb;122(2):87-93.
Etiology of endomyocardial fibrosis: an experimental evaluation of plantain
ingestion and chronic lymphatic obstruction.
Antia AU, Talbert JL, Paplanus SH.

9. Am Heart J. 1967 Mar;73(3):432-4.
Plantain diets, serotonin, and endomyocardial fibrosis.
Shaper AG.

10. Lancet. 1965 Oct 30;2(7418):880-2.
Fibrosis in guineapig heart produced by plantain diet.
McKinney B, Crawford MA.

11. J Pharm Pharmacol. 1960 Jun;12:360-4.
A note on the presence of noradrenaline and 5-hydroxytryptamine in plantain (Musa
sapientum, var. paradisiaca).
FOY JM, PARRATT JR.

12. J Am Diet Assoc. 1987 Aug;87(8):1031-5.
Catecholamine and serotonin content of foods: effect on urinary excretion of
homovanillic and 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid.
Feldman JM, Lee EM, Castleberry CA.

13. Am J Clin Nutr. 1985 Oct;42(4):639-43.
Serotonin content of foods: effect on urinary excretion of 5-hydroxyindoleacetic
acid.
Feldman JM, Lee EM.
Using a highly specific radioenzymatic assay we determined the serotonin
concentration in 80 types of foods. The following fruits had a high serotonin
concentration (mean +/- SEM) expressed in micrograms/g weight: plantain 30.3 +/-
7.5; pineapple 17.0 +/- 5.1; banana 15.0 +/- 2.4; Kiwi fruit 5.8 +/- 0.9; plums
4.7 +/- 0.8; and tomatoes 3.2 +/- 0.6. Only nuts in the walnut or hickory family
had a high serotonin concentration expressed in micrograms/g weight; butternuts
398 +/- 90; black walnuts 304 +/- 46; English walnuts 87 +/- 20; shagbark hickory
nuts 143 +/- 23; mockernut hickory nuts 67 +/- 13; pecans 29 +/- 4; and sweet
pignuts 25 +/- 8. Ingestion of these fruits and nuts resulted in an increase in
urinary 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid excretion with no change in platelet serotonin
concentration. The above foods should not be eaten while a urine is being
collected for 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid analysis.
 

narouz

Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
4,429
Charlie said:
When chatting with Dr. Ray Peat and trying to find some relief from my chronic inflammation he asked me about my diet. So I gave it to him and he saw that I was eating plantains, OJ, and watermelon. This was his response, also take note of what he bolded in the studies he attached.


hr
"Plantains are very proinflammatory, with a high serotonin content; commercial orange juice, especially if it doesn't separate when standing for a few hours, can produce bowel irritation by supporting bacterial growth because of the suspended modified fiber, and watermelons that aren't perfectly ripe have enough starch to cause problems, though very ripe watermelon is safe."

1. J Chromatogr A. 2011 Jun 24;1218(25):3890-9. Epub 2011 Apr 27.
Simultaneous analysis of serotonin, melatonin, piceid and resveratrol in fruits
using liquid chromatography tandem mass spectrometry.
Huang X, Mazza G.
Pacific Agri-Food Research Centre, Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, Summerland,
British Columbia, Canada.
An analytical method was developed for the simultaneous quantification of
serotonin, melatonin, trans- and cis-piceid, and trans- and cis-resveratrol using
reversed-phase high performance liquid chromatography coupled to mass
spectrometry (HPLC-MS) with electrospray ionization (ESI) in both positive and
negative ionization modes. HPLC optimal analytical separation was achieved using
a mixture of acetonitrile and water with 0.1% formic acid as the mobile phase in
linear gradient elution. The mass spectrometry parameters were optimized for
reliable quantification and the enhanced selectivity and sensitivity selected
reaction monitoring mode (SRM) was applied. For extraction, the direct analysis
of initial methanol extracts was compared with further ethyl acetate extraction.
In order to demonstrate the applicability of this analytical method, serotonin,
melatonin, trans- and cis-piceid, and trans- and cis-resveratrol from 24 kinds of
commonly consumed fruits were quantified. The highest serotonin content was found
in plantain,
while orange bell peppers had the highest melatonin content. Grape
samples possessed higher trans- and cis-piceid, and trans- and cis-resveratrol
contents than the other fruits. The results indicate that the combination of
HPLC-MS detection and simple sample preparation allows the rapid and accurate
quantification of serotonin, melatonin, trans- and cis-piceid, and trans- and
cis-resveratrol in fruits.
Copyright © 2011 Elsevier B.V. All rights reserved.

2. Exp Physiol. 1997 May;82(3):501-6.
Direct vascular effects of plantain extract in rats.
Orie NN.
Department of Physiology, College of Medical Sciences, University of Calabar,
Nigeria.
Responses of the aorta and portal veins isolated from rats to aqueous extract of
plantain (Musa paradisiaca) were studied. The extract produced
concentration-dependent relaxation in both noradrenaline- and KCl-contracted
aortic rings. The maximum relaxation in noradrenaline-contracted rings was 52.49
+/- 6.63% and in KCl-contracted rings was 77.51 +/- 2.52% of the initial tensions
developed in response to the contractile agents. The extract also produced
significant (P < 0.01) inhibition of the maximum aortic contractile response to
noradrenaline and completely abolished the spontaneous contractions of the portal
veins. Serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine), unlike the extract, produced contraction
rather than relaxation of the aortic rings. The results show a non-specific
relaxing and inhibiting effect of plantain extract on aortic and portal smooth
muscles, an effect that is not attributable to its abundant serotonin content.

3. Br Heart J. 1970 Sep;32(5):671-4.
The pathogenesis of endomyocardial fibrosis: the question of 5-hydroxytryptamine.
Ojo GO.
Thirty Nigerians with established endomyocardial fibrosis were studied. Basal
serum 5-hydroxytryptamine levels were estimated on three different occasions at
one-monthly intervals. Twentyfour hours before each estimation, dietary staples
containing 5-hydroxytryptamine were excluded from the diet. Subsequently the
patients were fed on a plantain diet and serum levels of 5-hydroxytryptamine were
estimated at one- and three-hour intervals after plantain ingestion.
5-hydroxytryptamine was assayed on the fundal strip of rat's stomach. These
values were compared with those obtained in an earlier study on healthy
Nigerians. It was observed that, as in healthy Nigerians, no significant increase
in serum 5-hydroxytryptamine levels occurred in these patients after plantain
ingestion. The difference between endomyocardial fibrosis and carcinoid heart
disease is underlined and it is emphasized that no correlation exists between the
incidence of endomyocardial fibrosis and the high content of 5-hydroxytryptamine
in the local dietary staples.

7. West Afr Med J Niger Pract. 1969 Oct;18(5):174-5.
Plantain meals and serum 5-hydroxytryptamine in healthy Nigerians.
Ojo GO.

8. Johns Hopkins Med J. 1968 Feb;122(2):87-93.
Etiology of endomyocardial fibrosis: an experimental evaluation of plantain
ingestion and chronic lymphatic obstruction.
Antia AU, Talbert JL, Paplanus SH.

9. Am Heart J. 1967 Mar;73(3):432-4.
Plantain diets, serotonin, and endomyocardial fibrosis.
Shaper AG.

10. Lancet. 1965 Oct 30;2(7418):880-2.
Fibrosis in guineapig heart produced by plantain diet.
McKinney B, Crawford MA.

11. J Pharm Pharmacol. 1960 Jun;12:360-4.
A note on the presence of noradrenaline and 5-hydroxytryptamine in plantain (Musa
sapientum, var. paradisiaca).
FOY JM, PARRATT JR.

12. J Am Diet Assoc. 1987 Aug;87(8):1031-5.
Catecholamine and serotonin content of foods: effect on urinary excretion of
homovanillic and 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid.
Feldman JM, Lee EM, Castleberry CA.

13. Am J Clin Nutr. 1985 Oct;42(4):639-43.
Serotonin content of foods: effect on urinary excretion of 5-hydroxyindoleacetic
acid.
Feldman JM, Lee EM.
Using a highly specific radioenzymatic assay we determined the serotonin
concentration in 80 types of foods. The following fruits had a high serotonin
concentration (mean +/- SEM) expressed in micrograms/g weight: plantain 30.3 +/-
7.5; pineapple 17.0 +/- 5.1; banana 15.0 +/- 2.4; Kiwi fruit 5.8 +/- 0.9; plums
4.7 +/- 0.8; and tomatoes 3.2 +/- 0.6. Only nuts in the walnut or hickory family
had a high serotonin concentration expressed in micrograms/g weight; butternuts
398 +/- 90; black walnuts 304 +/- 46; English walnuts 87 +/- 20; shagbark hickory
nuts 143 +/- 23; mockernut hickory nuts 67 +/- 13; pecans 29 +/- 4; and sweet
pignuts 25 +/- 8. Ingestion of these fruits and nuts resulted in an increase in
urinary 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid excretion with no change in platelet serotonin
concentration. The above foods should not be eaten while a urine is being
collected for 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid analysis.

Wow.
That was cool. :shock:
 

charlie

The Law & Order Admin
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
12,542
Location
USA
I actually already had it ready to go in a draft and when you asked about plantains you reminded me to post it. :lol:
 

Rem

Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2012
Messages
20
Location
Europe
I've had some problems with seedless watermelon which seemed ripe though. I wonder if the seedless variety could be allergenic in itself. Thank you for sharing Charlie.
 

bradley

Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2012
Messages
219
i love grilled and mashed sweet ripe plantains. I wonder if the serotonin content varies with the ripeness. When i was 811/raw vegan i ate upwards of 25 bananas a day for months. That would be a lot of serotonin, yet i didn't notice any harmful side effects. they were very ripe.

Charlie said:
When chatting with Dr. Ray Peat and trying to find some relief from my chronic inflammation he asked me about my diet. So I gave it to him and he saw that I was eating plantains, OJ, and watermelon. This was his response, also take note of what he bolded in the studies he attached.



"Plantains are very proinflammatory, with a high serotonin content; commercial orange juice, especially if it doesn't separate when standing for a few hours, can produce bowel irritation by supporting bacterial growth because of the suspended modified fiber, and watermelons that aren't perfectly ripe have enough starch to cause problems, though very ripe watermelon is safe."

1. J Chromatogr A. 2011 Jun 24;1218(25):3890-9. Epub 2011 Apr 27.
Simultaneous analysis of serotonin, melatonin, piceid and resveratrol in fruits
using liquid chromatography tandem mass spectrometry.
Huang X, Mazza G.
Pacific Agri-Food Research Centre, Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, Summerland,
British Columbia, Canada.
An analytical method was developed for the simultaneous quantification of
serotonin, melatonin, trans- and cis-piceid, and trans- and cis-resveratrol using
reversed-phase high performance liquid chromatography coupled to mass
spectrometry (HPLC-MS) with electrospray ionization (ESI) in both positive and
negative ionization modes. HPLC optimal analytical separation was achieved using
a mixture of acetonitrile and water with 0.1% formic acid as the mobile phase in
linear gradient elution. The mass spectrometry parameters were optimized for
reliable quantification and the enhanced selectivity and sensitivity selected
reaction monitoring mode (SRM) was applied. For extraction, the direct analysis
of initial methanol extracts was compared with further ethyl acetate extraction.
In order to demonstrate the applicability of this analytical method, serotonin,
melatonin, trans- and cis-piceid, and trans- and cis-resveratrol from 24 kinds of
commonly consumed fruits were quantified. The highest serotonin content was found
in plantain,
while orange bell peppers had the highest melatonin content. Grape
samples possessed higher trans- and cis-piceid, and trans- and cis-resveratrol
contents than the other fruits. The results indicate that the combination of
HPLC-MS detection and simple sample preparation allows the rapid and accurate
quantification of serotonin, melatonin, trans- and cis-piceid, and trans- and
cis-resveratrol in fruits.
Copyright © 2011 Elsevier B.V. All rights reserved.

2. Exp Physiol. 1997 May;82(3):501-6.
Direct vascular effects of plantain extract in rats.
Orie NN.
Department of Physiology, College of Medical Sciences, University of Calabar,
Nigeria.
Responses of the aorta and portal veins isolated from rats to aqueous extract of
plantain (Musa paradisiaca) were studied. The extract produced
concentration-dependent relaxation in both noradrenaline- and KCl-contracted
aortic rings. The maximum relaxation in noradrenaline-contracted rings was 52.49
+/- 6.63% and in KCl-contracted rings was 77.51 +/- 2.52% of the initial tensions
developed in response to the contractile agents. The extract also produced
significant (P < 0.01) inhibition of the maximum aortic contractile response to
noradrenaline and completely abolished the spontaneous contractions of the portal
veins. Serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine), unlike the extract, produced contraction
rather than relaxation of the aortic rings. The results show a non-specific
relaxing and inhibiting effect of plantain extract on aortic and portal smooth
muscles, an effect that is not attributable to its abundant serotonin content.

3. Br Heart J. 1970 Sep;32(5):671-4.
The pathogenesis of endomyocardial fibrosis: the question of 5-hydroxytryptamine.
Ojo GO.
Thirty Nigerians with established endomyocardial fibrosis were studied. Basal
serum 5-hydroxytryptamine levels were estimated on three different occasions at
one-monthly intervals. Twentyfour hours before each estimation, dietary staples
containing 5-hydroxytryptamine were excluded from the diet. Subsequently the
patients were fed on a plantain diet and serum levels of 5-hydroxytryptamine were
estimated at one- and three-hour intervals after plantain ingestion.
5-hydroxytryptamine was assayed on the fundal strip of rat's stomach. These
values were compared with those obtained in an earlier study on healthy
Nigerians. It was observed that, as in healthy Nigerians, no significant increase
in serum 5-hydroxytryptamine levels occurred in these patients after plantain
ingestion. The difference between endomyocardial fibrosis and carcinoid heart
disease is underlined and it is emphasized that no correlation exists between the
incidence of endomyocardial fibrosis and the high content of 5-hydroxytryptamine
in the local dietary staples.

7. West Afr Med J Niger Pract. 1969 Oct;18(5):174-5.
Plantain meals and serum 5-hydroxytryptamine in healthy Nigerians.
Ojo GO.

8. Johns Hopkins Med J. 1968 Feb;122(2):87-93.
Etiology of endomyocardial fibrosis: an experimental evaluation of plantain
ingestion and chronic lymphatic obstruction.
Antia AU, Talbert JL, Paplanus SH.

9. Am Heart J. 1967 Mar;73(3):432-4.
Plantain diets, serotonin, and endomyocardial fibrosis.
Shaper AG.

10. Lancet. 1965 Oct 30;2(7418):880-2.
Fibrosis in guineapig heart produced by plantain diet.
McKinney B, Crawford MA.

11. J Pharm Pharmacol. 1960 Jun;12:360-4.
A note on the presence of noradrenaline and 5-hydroxytryptamine in plantain (Musa
sapientum, var. paradisiaca).
FOY JM, PARRATT JR.

12. J Am Diet Assoc. 1987 Aug;87(8):1031-5.
Catecholamine and serotonin content of foods: effect on urinary excretion of
homovanillic and 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid.
Feldman JM, Lee EM, Castleberry CA.

13. Am J Clin Nutr. 1985 Oct;42(4):639-43.
Serotonin content of foods: effect on urinary excretion of 5-hydroxyindoleacetic
acid.
Feldman JM, Lee EM.
Using a highly specific radioenzymatic assay we determined the serotonin
concentration in 80 types of foods. The following fruits had a high serotonin
concentration (mean +/- SEM) expressed in micrograms/g weight: plantain 30.3 +/-
7.5; pineapple 17.0 +/- 5.1; banana 15.0 +/- 2.4; Kiwi fruit 5.8 +/- 0.9; plums
4.7 +/- 0.8; and tomatoes 3.2 +/- 0.6. Only nuts in the walnut or hickory family
had a high serotonin concentration expressed in micrograms/g weight; butternuts
398 +/- 90; black walnuts 304 +/- 46; English walnuts 87 +/- 20; shagbark hickory
nuts 143 +/- 23; mockernut hickory nuts 67 +/- 13; pecans 29 +/- 4; and sweet
pignuts 25 +/- 8. Ingestion of these fruits and nuts resulted in an increase in
urinary 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid excretion with no change in platelet serotonin
concentration. The above foods should not be eaten while a urine is being
collected for 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid analysis.
 

key

Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
122
bradley said:
i love grilled and mashed sweet ripe plantains. I wonder if the serotonin content varies with the ripeness. When i was 811/raw vegan i ate upwards of 25 bananas a day for months. That would be a lot of serotonin, yet i didn't notice any harmful side effects. they were very ripe.

Charlie is having inflammation issues so could be bad for him and tolerable for you.
 

gretchen

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2012
Messages
816
Aren't plantains just like bananas? Why would anyone eat bananas if they could have oranges or oj?
 

key

Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
122
gretchen said:
Aren't plantains just like bananas? Why would anyone eat bananas if they could have oranges or oj?

taste, variety, i think bananas are better cooked unless 811ripe
 

Amosya

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
23
I don't know about plantains as I usually have bananas,... but not much really, except the other day I suddenly developed an urge to eat grilled bananas!!!! The craving to have them grilled was incredible!!
As to the fact that as long you have the plantains, orange juice or watermelon completely ripe... it is not an easy thing to do nowadays! They are usually sold before ripened for the business sake.
 

onioneyedox

Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Messages
108
According to Wikipedia, plantains, bananas and other high serotonin fruits have around 3-30mg of serotonin per kg. On the other hand tryptophan contents on almost everything is around 1-2% of total protein. This leads me to think that serotonin in food is possibly insignificant compared what we can produce ourselves.

Isn't high serotonin production in gut meant to make the bad food to clear out faster (diarrhea)? If fruit serotonin was significant factor shouldn't that happen to everyone consistently? On the contrary, most everyone I know have no trouble with bananas.

I think it's the irritants or foods one can't digest properly that cause stress in GI track and the production of harmful amounts of serotonin.

Wiki says latex allergic people may get reaction from bananas. I remember Ray also writing about natural gums in them.

I continue eating bananas (not 30 a day) as they are quite cheap and nutritious and cause me no trouble.

Just quickly glanced over http://www.scq.ubc.ca/the-pursuit-of-ha ... -too-many/ (was linked from wiki), seems to have some interesting facts. Maybe the serotonin content rises as the banana ripens, as does dopamin content. Or maybe not as it is not mentioned, though the reaction looks same.


PS. banana and plantain seem practically same on this regard so I just looked on banana. Maybe plantain is harder to digest as it is apparently more starchy?
 

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