Is Supplementing Vit E Actually Bad For You?

[Braveheart]

Sorry John. This is what I was concluding to "Antioxidants work for prevention but not for deactivation of cancer cells..." Context is everything...

Cool Obi, that I understand...plus that statement gives me a starting point if I want to research further...thanks

 

[Obi-wan]

Linoleic acid in PUFA produce prostaglandin E2 which produce polyamines which produce proliferation BUT Aspirin stops that via COX1 and COX2 inhibition. High ROS kills the cancer cell...I don't want to save the cancer cell with an antioxidant...If you don't have cancer then antioxidants could prevent you from getting it...

So the question is do you or don't you have cancer...

 

[Obi-wan]

Started taking dry Vit. E Succinate (VES). Per a Pubmed study it does not reduce ROS

 

[danielbb]

Interesting thread. I've wondered about the possible toxic ingredients in Vitamin E supplements and supplements in general for a long time. I've had my ups and downs with supplements and my current thinking is they seem to be designed to separate us from our money. I often wonder if our bodies are even designed to properly utilize supplements no matter how pure the form?

All that said, it has occurred to me (based on intuition, Ray's writings, and experimentation) that perhaps best source to get them is from healthy nutritional sources. In one of Ray's articles, he was lamenting that people were not getting enough Vitamin E because most no longer consumed liver. Well, liver only contains about 0.5 mg/100g, and Ray only recommends it once per week so it got me wondering whether the quality of the nutrient was far more important than quantity.

The following I eat almost everyday and I am satisfied this is enough Vitamin E (and other vitamins as well for that matter):

8 0z (or more) orange juice - 0.1 mg Vitamin E (obviously also high in Vitamin C and other nutrients)
1 Raw Carrot - 0.5 mg Vitamin E (I realize there may be a nutrient absorption issue with raw carrots)
1 or more Apples plus skin - 0.4 mg Vitamin E
1 Burger - 0.4 mg Vitamin E
Liver once per week (.5 mg Vitamin E, lots of Vitamin A and B12).

I know about Ray's reservations about red meat (e.g., iron and tryptophan) and pectin in apples but these things work unbelievably well for me. I donate blood to mitigate iron and consume beef gelatin and 1% milk to balance protein.

As far as actual supplements that seem to work and have healing properties for me:

Aspirin
Vitamin K2 (1mg drop per aspirin per Ray's recommendation)
Niacinamide powder (500 mg spaced throughout the day)
Baking Soda

 

[Mary Lyn]

So is this a good one?

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B01FO53SK4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A192O7XD8TN7WZ&psc=1

Or should I go for Script Essentials?

 

[Mary Lyn]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/vitalingo-Wheat-Germ-Oil-Capsules-vitalingo/dp/B01FO53SK4

 

[jb116]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/vitalingo-Wheat-Germ-Oil-Capsules-vitalingo/dp/B01FO53SK4

They don't show any stats on the fat content but do mention omega 3 and 6 so this product may not just be vit E extract but the intact oil. In which case its Vit E content is good enough to cover its own unsaturated fats. To me it wouldn't make sense to use it, maybe I'm wrong about the product though.

 

[TeaRex14]

It's my understanding that the preferred vitamin E product is something that's extracted from wheat germ oil, not necessarily wheat germ oil itself. TocoVit is the only product I'v personally seen that's like that.

 

[Aleeri]

It's my understanding that the preferred vitamin E product is something that's extracted from wheat germ oil, not necessarily wheat germ oil itself. TocoVit is the only product I'v personally seen that's like that.

Agreed, I also remain positive to Palm Fruit extracted vitamin E, although they are not of the same type. I have only seen positive research on it. I think the article that Ray mentioned some old studies in animals that had negative effects are seriously outdated. There is so much research to prove the opposite now.

Also, I can confirm a strong blood thinning effect, I forgot to stop taking it prior to one of my blood tests and awhile after I was tying my shoes when leaving the clinic I actually started bleeding from the vein/arm again. Somewhat scary experience but at least I can confirm it works.

 

[TeaRex14]

Agreed, I also remain positive to Palm Fruit extracted vitamin E, although they are not of the same type. I have only seen positive research on it. I think the article that Ray mentioned some old studies in animals that had negative effects are seriously outdated. There is so much research to prove the opposite now.

Also, I can confirm a strong blood thinning effect, I forgot to stop taking it prior to one of my blood tests and awhile after I was tying my shoes when leaving the clinic I actually started bleeding from the vein/arm again. Somewhat scary experience but at least I can confirm it works.

Yeah I don't think there's anything wrong with Palm Fruit vitamin E. It's got higher concentrations of the tocotrienols then you would normally fine, but I've already seen a few studies that suggest tocotrienols help protect against stroke and heart attack. So I seriously doubt they're bad for you. I don't know the exact reasoning why Peat didn't like them, but I think it was based on the idea tocotrienols were a unsaturated molecule while tocopherols were saturated. I can also confirm vitamin E's strong blood thinning effects. In fact it's thinning effects are stronger on me than aspirin. It caused me to bleed some every time I needed to use the restroom, #2. I had to reduce my dose from 400iu to 200iu, and I also increased my vitamin K intake. It's a very good and powerful antioxidant, but it can definitely be overdone.

 

[koky]

If I apply 20 drops of. Progeste e each day and coconut oil and cocoa butter topically each day
Am I getting 400 iu of vitamin e weekly?

 

[Mary Lyn]

Can anyone suggest a vitamin E product obtainable in the UK? Thanks.

 

[TeaRex14]

If I apply 20 drops of. Progeste e each day and coconut oil and cocoa butter topically each day
Am I getting 400 iu of vitamin e weekly?

Not sure, I've never used the product before. Does it say how much E is in the product? Topical application is also probably not 100% adsorbed.

 

[TeaRex14]

Can anyone suggest a vitamin E product obtainable in the UK? Thanks.

Will Idealabs ship to the UK? If so you can get TocoVit. I'm pretty sure they do, because they offer an international shipping option during checkout.

 

[Mary Lyn]

Will Idealabs ship to the UK? If so you can get TocoVit. I'm pretty sure they do, because they offer an international shipping option during checkout.

Thank you l know but shipping and tax is too much.

 

[Obi-wan]

Great study on Vitamin E Succinate at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2394445/pdf/89-6601360a.pdf

 

[Obi-wan]

Great study on Vitamin E Succinate at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2394445/pdf/89-6601360a.pdf

"The unique structural features of agents like a-TOS probably make them selective for malignant cells (Neuzil et al, 2001b). While speculative at present, it is possible that the surprisingly high toxicity of a-TOS towards cancer cells and tissues is due to their persistence in such cells in the original form, while normal cells, including fibroblasts (Roberg et al, 1999), cardiac myocytes (Roberg and Ollinger, 1998), hepatocytes (Tirmenstein et al, 1999) and intestinal epithelial cells (Borel et al, 2001), are all capable of its hydrolysis to a-TOH"

"There are several reports documenting that the VE analogue potentiates cancer cells killing by the immunological apoptogen Fas, viz by mobilising the Fas receptor from the cytosol to the plasma membrane; this has been shown for both prostate and breast cancer cells (Turley et al, 1997; Yu et al, 1999). These findings suggest that a-TOS has the propensity to boost the immune system to enhance cancer surveillance. While the Fas ligand itself is highly cytotoxic, the TNF-related apoptosis inducing ligand (TRAIL) is selective for cancer cells (Bonavida et al, 1999). Therefore, the reports that a-TOS can potentiate cancer cells to killing by TRAIL may be of pharmacological importance. This has been shown for both colon cancer (Weber et al, 2002) and mesothelioma cells (Neuzil et al, unpublished) as well as for T lymphoma cells (Dalen and Neuzil, 2003)"

"Finally, a-TOS can sensitise cancer cells by upregulation of the TRAIL death receptors, as in the TRAIL resistant mesothelioma cells (Neuzil et al, unpublished"

"Probably, the strongest evidence suggesting the potential use of VE analogues in the treatment of humans with neoplastic disease comes from the laboratory of Malafa. They first showed that a-TOS promoted beast cancer dormancy in an immunocompromised mouse (Malafa and Neitzel, 2000) and, later on, also melanoma dormancy (Malafa et al, 2002b); in both cases, inhibition of angiogenesis via suppression of VEGF signaling by a-TOS was suggested as the underlying mechanism, pointing to an indirect effect of the VE analogue on cancer growth."

"Perhaps, the most exciting aspect of the potential use of compounds like a-TOS, a pro-VE, follows from its pharmacokinetics. After infusion into the circulatory system, the VE analogue associates with circulating lipoproteins (Kayden and Traber, 1993; Pussinen et al, 2000). This carrier delivers it to the microvasculature of the tumour. Since there is a constant exchange of hydrophobic molecules between lipoproteins and the peripheral tissue, a-TOS can traverse to malignant cells, where it induces apoptosis (Neuzil, 2002). Due to rapid turnover of lipoproteins (Traber et al, 1994), a-TOS is eventually cleared in the liver. Hepatocytes have a high activity of nonspecific esterases that cleave the VE ester to a-TOH. Further, during processing of lipoproteins in the liver cells, the natural stereoisomer of a-TOH associates with the highly specific a-TOH-binding protein, which inserts this most active form of VE into nascent very low-density lipoprotein that is, in turn, rescreeted into circulation via the hepatic vein (Terasawa et al, 2000). In this way, following hydrolysis of a-TOS, the circulation is enriched with VE. Therefore, the pro-VE, a-TOS and similar compounds (Birringer et al, 2003) are converted to the redox-active VE with additional beneficial activity (Neuzil, 2002), including increased protection against oxidative stress and immunosuppressive activity (LiWeber et al, 2002). Moreover, several reports showed that a-TOS Vitamin E succinate and cancer J Neuzil 1824 British Journal of Cancer (2003) 89(10), 1822–1826 & 2003 Cancer Research UK protects cells like hepatocytes from secondary deleterious effects of toxic agents, including adriamycin (Dominguez-Rodriguez et al, 2001; Fariss et al, 2001)."

I would say Vitamin E Succinate is the way to go!

 

[BigChad]

Agreed, I also remain positive to Palm Fruit extracted vitamin E, although they are not of the same type. I have only seen positive research on it. I think the article that Ray mentioned some old studies in animals that had negative effects are seriously outdated. There is so much research to prove the opposite now.

Also, I can confirm a strong blood thinning effect, I forgot to stop taking it prior to one of my blood tests and awhile after I was tying my shoes when leaving the clinic I actually started bleeding from the vein/arm again. Somewhat scary experience but at least I can confirm it works.

Which palm vitamin e product do you use? Thorne said tocotrienols are quickly excreted and poorly absorbed. Im not sure if theyre safe

 

[Aleeri]

Which palm vitamin e product do you use? Thorne said tocotrienols are quickly excreted and poorly absorbed. Im not sure if theyre safe

I used to use Botanical Craft Palm Fruit but it contains a lot of carotenoids/Vitamin A (which they market as a perk), I stopped using it as I think over time it might cause thyroid issues. It's like 440% the RDA of Vitamin A and not in the form we want, so don't think it's ideal. It does have Sesamin extract though which is very beneficial for retaining Vitamin E in the body.

I am now using Healthy Origins Tocomin, lower quality product but without the excess carotenoids/Vitamin A.

 

[BigChad]

I used to use Botanical Craft Palm Fruit but it contains a lot of carotenoids/Vitamin A (which they market as a perk), I stopped using it as I think over time it might cause thyroid issues. It's like 440% the RDA of Vitamin A and not in the form we want, so don't think it's ideal. It does have Sesamin extract though which is very beneficial for retaining Vitamin E in the body.

I am now using Healthy Origins Tocomin, lower quality product but without the excess carotenoids/Vitamin A.

Sesame extract would be bad though?
What do you think of nutrigolds vitamin E gold product. It has 40mg mixed tocopherols and 40mg mixed tocotrienols. Im not sure about it due to the tocotrienols being unsaturated. Its sourced from sunflower and red palm oil and uses olive oil in the capsule