Jennifer's Cellular Regeneration Log

[Jennifer]

I had to censor a thought because it was too heavy even for our standards.

Unrelated:
It's common in the US and A for eggs to be brown on exterior, isn't it? The interesting link that you sented me on dissolving eggshells in acids got me thinking if darker colors contain more impurities (just like salt) in these outer layers. One of the suggestions was immersing an intact e egg in juice, so if that's true, we'd have to dissolve the layers that concentrate them before getting to the ones that are as pure as your soul, making it not a good option.

Oh, boy! I can usually count on you to not censor yourself so it must be heavy.

I'm not sure about eggs at the grocery store since I haven't bought them from there in years, but the eggs I've gotten from farms over the last decade have always been a shade of brown. I'm not positive but I think it mainly has to do with the breed of hen. I saw blue green eggs from heritage breed hens at Whole Foods last week. You peaked my curiosity though so I'll definitely look into it.

Edit — I found this:

How do brown eggs become brown (instead of white)? from My Pet Chicken

The poor colored food could use a good dose of lovin' right about now.

I've been saving up eggshells to make a huge batch of the lemon eggshell calcium and was going to add it to gelatin gummies, kind of like my own version of calcium chews.

LOL I don't know why I give off a purity image to people when my halo has always been a little tipped.

 

[Amazoniac]

I was without audio, just listened to the song, and {} l\/l 9 that was really creepy for an angel. How about adding your interpretation to those websites that discuss the meaning of songs? Cuts like a knife but feels so right. : idi
What if you're a thugess under the angel cloak? Maybe you need to film yourself graffiting the 'Welcome to New Hampshire' sign to convince us of this tipped halo.

I read that some calcium is mobilized from the shell to the yolk, therefore it doesn't seem too off to think that the outer layers might concentrate more contaminants than the inner (regardless of the color?). The exterior might also be tougher than the interior, and if this is true, it's likely to be easier to dissolve in acid, making the crushed shells a better option than immersing the intact egg.

But I don't know if birds has this degree of control over eggs, maybe @whit can shred some light.

- It's Not Official - Eggshell Pigment Might Also Be Influenced By Solar Radiation (what a coincidence!)

 

[Jennifer]

@Amazoniac — I suppose for an angel of perfection it's creepy, but not for one with a tipped halo. Given your love language — The Five Love Languages - Wikipedia (not exactly sure which one yours falls under, though), "cuts like a knife but feels so right" seems appropriate, no?

My interpretation of the song is that despite the trials of the relationship, he believed he and the girlfriend were fine but she checked out of it, and though finding this out cuts him like a knife, it feels so right — that they go their separate ways given the circumstances. How'd I do?

As for the vandalization, I wouldn't have enough time before getting caught by local police to fully commit to the project for it to be a true work of art and not just some tacky attempt at it. I may have a tipped halo, but I do have standards.

I read that some calcium is mobilized from the shell to the yolk, therefore it doesn't seem too off to think that the outer layers might concentrate more contaminants than the inner (regardless of the color?). The exterior might also be tougher than the interior, and if this is true, it's likely to be easier to dissolve in acid, making the crushed shells a better option than immersing the intact egg.

But I don't know if birds has this degree of control over eggs, maybe @whit can shred some light.

Ah, that's it! Biliverdin — the dominant pigment in the blue green eggs! Thank you! Yeah, it seems reasonable to think that the outer layers of eggs possibly contain more contaminants than the interior layers. I'm not sure how one would go about dissolving the interior without dissolving the exterior right along with it, though? And would the level of contiminants be any worse than say that of bone broth?

 

[whit]

I was without audio, just listened to the song, and {} l\/l 9 that was really creepy for an angel. How about adding your interpretation to those websites that discuss the meaning of songs? Cuts like a knife but feels so right. : idi
What if you're a thugess under the angel cloak? Maybe you need to film yourself graffiting the 'Welcome to New Hampshire' sign to convince us of this tipped halo.

I read that some calcium is mobilized from the shell to the yolk, therefore it doesn't seem too off to think that the outer layers might concentrate more contaminants than the inner (regardless of the color?). The exterior might also be tougher than the interior, and if this is true, it's likely to be easier to dissolve in acid, making the crushed shells a better option than immersing the intact egg.

But I don't know if birds has this degree of control over eggs, maybe @whit can shred some light.

- It's Not Official - Eggshell Pigment Might Also Be Influenced By Solar Radiation (what a coincidence!)

I'm not sure to the why of chickens.
To date I've yet to find a decent interpreter.
I can't tell you if there's a toxin gradient from inside to outside of an egg.
Color varies from day to day season to season. So many factors play a role.
Different breeds lay different colors.
For instance we have black hens who lay pure white eggs and white hens who lay brown eggs.
The color varent is an interesting indicator. Sometimes the shells are speckled. What's that about?
We soak our eggs in a diluted peroxide
bath before using. We do use the powder for supplementation as well.
Peat has said it's a good clean source of calcium.
The color will lighten during the peroxide bath.

I also have known people who process pheasant eggs. They drop them in vinegar and the shells dissolve completely, they dance around leaving a perfectly peeled egg. I can't imagine trying to hand peel them.
One could use the vinegar method on regular eggs and remove only part of the outside if needed.

 

[Amazoniac]

@Amazoniac — I suppose for an angel of perfection it's creepy, but not for one with a tipped halo. Given your love language — The Five Love Languages - Wikipedia (not exactly sure which one yours falls under, though), "cuts like a knife but feels so right" seems appropriate, no?

My interpretation of the song is that despite the trials of the relationship, he believed he and the girlfriend were fine but she checked out of it, and though finding this out cuts him like a knife, it feels so right — that they go their separate ways given the circumstances. How'd I do?

As for the vandalization, I wouldn't have enough time before getting caught by local police to fully commit to the project for it to be a true work of art and not just some tacky attempt at it. I may have a tipped halo, but I do have standards.

Ah, that's it! Biliverdin — the dominant pigment in the blue green eggs! Thank you! Yeah, it seems reasonable to think that the outer layers of eggs possibly contain more contaminants than the interior layers. I'm not sure how one would go about dissolving the interior without dissolving the exterior right along with it, though? And would the level of contiminants be any worse than say that of bone broth?

Jennifer, I didn't reply because I was starting to feel guilty for polluting your thread.

Regarding that second-last question, if the eggshells are tougher on the exterior, crushing them will make the interior more prone to react with acid, so it's just a matter of not immersing it whole. But I don't even know if it's true that they is more contaminated outside or if it's relevant.

--
I was brewing some thoughts on how to estimate the amount of calcium supplemented when obtained the way you plan to..

a)

It must be possible to weigh the crushed eggshells before and after acted upon (but dried again) by the acid with more precise scales to know how much leached to the juice. Assuming that cheap scales available (<$40) work right, their sensitivity is usually 1 mg, and this is good because we're interested in hundreds of milligrams of eggshells at a time. Their limit is often 20 g if I'm not wrong.

By weight, eggshells are mostly calcium carbonate: 96%.

- Removal of water extractable proteins from concentrated natural rubber latex by eggshells

- Chicken eggshell as suitable calcium source at home​

We can consider 100% for the sake of simplification and because there should be no problem in overestimating a bit.

Calcium carbonate (and therefore our eggshell) is 40% calcium.

So, 40% of the before and after difference will give us the total content of elemental calcium present in the juice. Knowing this and the volume of juice, (as long as it's homogenized before every use) we should know how much each serving is providing us.

As an example, if you ended up with eggshells being 1 g lighter in weight after the wards, and you has 200 ml of juice, it should give you about 400 mg of calcium/200 ml.​

b)

It's also possible to grind the eggshells before the hands, weigh (or guess?) for the desired amount of calcium and dump it in acid. This way no matter how much acid we use, we'll know the calcium content of the solution. The only problem is that it's likely that there will be an excess of either unreacted acid or calcium carbonate. However we err on the side of more acid and (on each batch) gradually decrease the excess to the point that adding tiny amounts of sodium bicarbonate no longer fizzes, so we'll know that it's neutral.​

c)

Consider this option the full-blown psycho mode (but it must also work, being practical as well).

The third possibility is estimating the amount of free acid that we have in our liquid (juice or vinegar), and then adding colossal amounts of crushed eggshells, this way what will dictate the end of the reaction is when the amount of acid available was completely neutralized. Since the eggshells isn't pulverized, it's just a matter of sieving them (as in the video) after leaving for long enough to complete.

What varies here in relation to the other methods is that we'll be basing the process on acids instead of the opposite.

But this one is a little tricky because we can owa or underestimate the free acid content using theoresical values available on the lines.

We know that the organic acids in lemon juice are mostly citric and malic (but to a much lesser degree), yet the majority of the relevant part as free acid is citric. In one of the experiments below they commented that lemon juice 'titrates like a pure acid solution', so the rest is nearly neglectibable. I'm hesitant to use values because it's all over the place, I'll leave you instead a few links in you's interested.

- The Organic Acids of Lemon Fruits
- Quantitative Assessment of Citric Acid in Lemon Juice, Lime Juice, and Commercially-Available Fruit Juice Products
- Stability of the buffer system of lemon juice
- Differences in Juice Acidities of Citrus Species and Relationships among Acidities, and of Acidities to Potassium Concentration
- "The Primary Sources Of Acidity In The Diet Are Sulfur-containing AAs, Salt, And Phosphoric Acid"
- Can lemon juice be an alternative to potassium citrate in the treatment of urinary calcium stones in patients with hypocitraturia? A prospective randomized study​

The weight disparity* between citrate and citric acid is insignificant enough for us to use either one or the other.
*I don't wear a tie, it's because below I'll use 'difference', so I'm trying to avoid repeating the term.

What's more guaranteed to do is weighing a certain amount of sodium bicarbonate, adding it to the homogenized juice from various lemons until it stops fizzing, and weigh again the amount left to calculate the difference; this way we'll know how much was required to neutralize the acid. This sort of a complexing capacity test to find out the average amount of citric acid in your juice. It's not as easy to perceive when it stops reacting when using eggshells right away.

- Sodium bicarbonate is about 27% sodium.
- Trisodium citrate (I think this is what you end up with from reaction with lemon) is also about 27% sodium.

If it's correct, a neat coincidence because we can simply multiply the weight of the sodium bicarbonate required for neutralization by 73% and we'll obtain the citric acid content for the volume of juice used.

Example: 100 ml of juice required 2 g of sodium bicarbonate. 2 * 73% = 1.5 g of citric acid in 100 ml.​

Knowing the weight of free citric acid for a given volume of juice, we can proceed to the eggshell part..


Calcium citrate is 80% citrate. So the weight above represents these 80% after calcium is reacted with it.

Going from 100% to 80% is a reduction of 20%, but the reverse is an increase of 25%:

known citrate = 80%
unknown calcium citrate = 100%

known citrate * 100% = total calcium citrate * 80%
known citrate * (100/80) = total calcium citrate
known citrate * 1.25 = total calcium citrate​

And now, having the total amount we can finally multiply by 20% to find out the amount of calcium:

total calcium citrate * 0.2 = elemental calcium
(known citrate * 1.25) * 0.2 = elemental calcium
known citrate * 0.25 = elemental calcium​

Replacing the above with the value from the example to continue it:

1.5 g * 0.25 = 0.375 g
Elemental calcium in every 100 ml that's fully reacted: 375 mg.​

Estimating these ways we must be able to minimize the risks of taking too much without realizing and causing inconvenients (Jan, 2019). If adverse reactions appear that seem unrelated to indigestion, (as you know) extra vit K is something to consider.

Please inspect this post for errors because there can be serious ones.

 

[Jennifer]

Jennifer, I didn't reply because I was starting to feel guilty for polluting your thread.

Regarding that second-last question, if the eggshells are tougher on the exterior, crushing them will make the interior more prone to react with acid, so it's just a matter of not immersing it whole. But I don't even know if it's true that they is more contaminated outside or if it's relevant.

--
I was brewing some thoughts on how to estimate the amount of calcium supplemented when obtained the way you plan to..

a)

It must be possible to weigh the crushed eggshells before and after acted upon (but dried again) by the acid with more precise scales to know how much leached to the juice. Assuming that cheap scales available (<$40) work right, their sensitivity is usually 1 mg, and this is good because we're interested in hundreds of milligrams of eggshells at a time. Their limit is often 20 g if I'm not wrong.

By weight, eggshells are mostly calcium carbonate: 96%.

- Removal of water extractable proteins from concentrated natural rubber latex by eggshells

View attachment 12514​

- Chicken eggshell as suitable calcium source at home​

We can consider 100% for the sake of simplification and because there should be no problem in overestimating a bit.

Calcium carbonate (and therefore our eggshell) is 40% calcium.

So, 40% of the before and after difference will give us the total content of elemental calcium present in the juice. Knowing this and the volume of juice, (as long as it's homogenized before every use) we should know how much each serving is providing us.

As an example, if you ended up with eggshells being 1 g lighter in weight after the wards, and you has 200 ml of juice, it should give you about 400 mg of calcium/200 ml.​

b)

It's also possible to grind the eggshells before the hands, weigh (or guess?) for the desired amount of calcium and dump it in acid. This way no matter how much acid we use, we'll know the calcium content of the solution. The only problem is that it's likely that there will be an excess of either unreacted acid or calcium carbonate. However we err on the side of more acid and (on each batch) gradually decrease the excess to the point that adding tiny amounts of sodium bicarbonate no longer fizzes, so we'll know that it's neutral.​

c)

Consider this option the full-blown psycho mode (but it must also work, being practical as well).

The third possibility is estimating the amount of free acid that we have in our liquid (juice or vinegar), and then adding colossal amounts of crushed eggshells, this way what will dictate the end of the reaction is when the amount of acid available was completely neutralized. Since the eggshells isn't pulverized, it's just a matter of sieving them (as in the video) after leaving for long enough to complete.

What varies here in relation to the other methods is that we'll be basing the process on acids instead of the opposite.

But this one is a little tricky because we can owa or underestimate the free acid content using theoresical values available on the lines.

We know that the organic acids in lemon juice are mostly citric and malic (but to a much lesser degree), yet the majority of the relevant part as free acid is citric. In one of the experiments below they commented that lemon juice 'titrates like a pure acid solution', so the rest is nearly neglectibable. I'm hesitant to use values because it's all over the place, I'll leave you instead a few links in you's interested.

- The Organic Acids of Lemon Fruits
- Quantitative Assessment of Citric Acid in Lemon Juice, Lime Juice, and Commercially-Available Fruit Juice Products
- Stability of the buffer system of lemon juice
- Differences in Juice Acidities of Citrus Species and Relationships among Acidities, and of Acidities to Potassium Concentration
- "The Primary Sources Of Acidity In The Diet Are Sulfur-containing AAs, Salt, And Phosphoric Acid"
- Can lemon juice be an alternative to potassium citrate in the treatment of urinary calcium stones in patients with hypocitraturia? A prospective randomized study​

The weight disparity* between citrate and citric acid is insignificant enough for us to use either one or the other.
*I don't wear a tie, it's because below I'll use 'difference', so I'm trying to avoid repeating the term.

What's more guaranteed to do is weighing a certain amount of sodium bicarbonate, adding it to the homogenized juice from various lemons until it stops fizzing, and weigh again the amount left to calculate the difference; this way we'll know how much was required to neutralize the acid. This sort of a complexing capacity test to find out the average amount of citric acid in your juice. It's not as easy to perceive when it stops reacting when using eggshells right away.

- Sodium bicarbonate is about 27% sodium.
- Trisodium citrate (I think this is what you end up with from reaction with lemon) is also about 27% sodium.

If it's correct, a neat coincidence because we can simply multiply the weight of the sodium bicarbonate required for neutralization by 73% and we'll obtain the citric acid content for the volume of juice used.

Example: 100 ml of juice required 2 g of sodium bicarbonate. 2 * 73% = 1.5 g of citric acid in 100 ml.​

Knowing the weight of free citric acid for a given volume of juice, we can proceed to the eggshell part..


Calcium citrate is 80% citrate. So the weight above represents these 80% after calcium is reacted with it.

Going from 100% to 80% is a reduction of 20%, but the reverse is an increase of 25%:

known citrate = 80%
unknown calcium citrate = 100%

known citrate * 100% = total calcium citrate * 80%
known citrate * (100/80) = total calcium citrate
known citrate * 1.25 = total calcium citrate​

And now, having the total amount we can finally multiply by 20% to find out the amount of calcium:

total calcium citrate * 0.2 = elemental calcium
(known citrate * 1.25) * 0.2 = elemental calcium
known citrate * 0.25 = elemental calcium​

Replacing the above with the value from the example to continue it:

1.5 g * 0.25 = 0.375 g
Elemental calcium in every 100 ml that's fully reacted: 375 mg.​

Estimating these ways we must be able to minimize the risks of taking too much without realizing and causing inconvenients (Jan, 2019). If adverse reactions appear that seem unrelated to indigestion, (as you know) extra vit K is something to consider.

Please inspect this post for errors because there can be serious ones.

WOW, Gustavo! Your intelligence blows my mind sometimes. :) This is incredibly well thought out and honestly, a little overwhelming. lol I think I got lost back at Linda Laudermilk's response "WOW is like the crack in the road that has dirt and feces in it." I can't tell if it's genius or a sign of insanity. I find her last name quite fitting given a recent turn of events...

I've decided to ask my doctor to put me on thyroid and do an allergen-free diet to hopefully overcome my dairy allergy since I don't want to spend the rest of my life on a highly restrictive diet. I figured I'd give it another go now that I'm no longer dealing with the mold or the stress of caring for ailing loved ones. If it doesn't work, I'll have the eggshell powder to fall back on so thank you for posting all that. :)

 

[Jennifer]

Final update:

My thyroid has only gotten worse. I can barely stay awake now, my extremities are freezing, my hair has been falling out, my nails splitting, my once questionable cavity is now a full blown cavity and fruit now causes me cramping and diarrhea. Last Friday and Saturday I ate nothing but fruit to see if the animal protein was a factor and what a mistake that was. Saturday night ended badly for me.

I discovered a lump in my breast while changing for bed and at first, I wasn't too concerned because my mum has fibrocystic breasts so I figured I probably do too, but then my grandmother, who had breast cancer, crossed my mind and I got nervous and ended up asking my mum to check it. She told me it was likely nothing but to have my doctor look at it, and then I proceeded to pass out.

I was only able to get out "I'm passing o.." before waking up to my mum hugging me tightly and frantically yelling "Oh, God! What's happening to you?!" I was still woozy and a bit out of it but tried calming her down, telling her I was okay and that I just passed out but then I heard her say seizure. I was like "I had a seizure?!" and started freaking out. lol I swear God keeps us around for comic relief.

Apparently, she didn't hear me say I was passing out and instead, thought I was having a seizure. We're no strangers to vasovagal episodes and in the past, she always stayed calm and knew what to do but these days she panics because of some traumatic events we've experienced, especially in more recent years. Given my dramatic reaction, it's obvious my nervous system is fried, too.

The next morning I woke with a migraine and spent until the late afternoon vomiting and come evening, had gained enough strength to make myself some scrambled eggs with maple syrup and within 15 minutes, the migraine was gone. I've tried my best these past 10 years, but this is clearly beyond diet, herbs, release work and determination now.

I did some research and it seems breast lumps are common in women with hypothyroidism. Hopefully, mine is just a cyst and my doctor treats my thyroid. It used to be doctors refused me treatment because they believed I was lying about not starving myself and now that my weights up, doctors just see me as petite but I still struggle to get treatment, mainly because I still don't fit the typical hypo mold.

My last doctor acknowledged my weak thyroid and adrenals, but dropped the ball when it came to treatment. I was having to ask for standard tests, remind her to monitor my blood levels, actually point out when they were off and suggest a course of action, and even ask her to do basic diagnostics like taking my blood pressure and temp readings, something that used to be standard practice.

I'm all for being my own advocate and taking responsibility for my health, but I'm not a doctor with clinical experience, and this whole time having to learn while ill and caring for ailing loved ones for a majority of it has taken its toll on me, and not being able to tolerate anything but fruit only weakened my glands further because experience has shown that fruit alone doesn't provide my body everything it needs.

I would have taken thyroid on my own but given my liver and history with the mold and gut inflammation, it has been a challenge keeping my cholesterol high enough to take thyroid safely without monitoring my level. I can't afford to forgo my insurance and pay out of pocket for fairly frequent blood tests, and I need more than just "feels" to go by when supplementing hormones.

In hopes of overcoming my dairy allergy, I'm following a reintroduction diet that VoS had given me and will be asking my new doctor at my first appointment with her on the 25th if she would order blood tests and start me on NDT (WP thyroid) because despite my best efforts, I need support, at least for the time being, and I feel the most loving thing I can do for myself now is to accept it.

Back when I was at my worst, the RBTI practitioner I was working with at the time wanted me to go to Redding, California to visit a church known for its miraculous healings and I remember questioning why we couldn't heal everywhere, as if divinity didn't reside in and all around us, in our own backyards.

I was visiting my local farm and telling my friend, the farm manager, this and he raised his arms out to the sky and said "You don't get any more healing than this." He was right and as much as the lump scares me and makes me want to run in fear back to the land of restriction, the only place I'm headed is home.

 

[Cirion]

wow that's scary. I hope you get better. I know it sounds like you don't want to keep doctoring yourself, but the first thing that jumped in my mind when you said fibrocystic breasts was - Iodine. Not a popular substance in the Peat world, but have you looked into it at all? Dr. Brownstein/Abraham are both convinced that the primary cause of this and breast cancer is a deficiency in Iodine - which is much more prevalent among women apparently. In women the breasts are a major storage device for Iodine, probably in part because Iodine is a critical substance that is passed on to babies during breast-feeding.

I'm also attempting to overcome my issues with dairy. Waremu posted an interesting thread the other day about using commercial cream separators to skim your own milk. This is useful because you can eliminate the added vitamin A and D this way (some people react negatively to them). Also, homogenization can cause people to react negatively to milk. Skimming your own milk bypasses both problems. Waremu learned you can even skim goat's milk. Skimmed goat's milk is probably the least likely to be allergenic compared to cow's milk. I bought my own skimmer and will use it next week when it arrives in the mail on some grass fed un-homogenized cow's milk, and compare how I feel on that vs. skimmed goat's milk.

 

[InChristAlone]

I am so sorry to hear this Jennifer. I thought things had been going so well several months ago? Was that over the summer? Are you like me? Do you get more and more complaints by the end of winter? I was doing so well by the end of summer and now feel back to where I was last year lol. It seems to happen every year. It's quite sad. We are trying to move to Florida because I just can't handle winter anymore. All I do is sit on the couch online. And that cannot be good for anyone.

You seem like you have accepted whatever it is will happen, and that takes a lot of courage, while still trying your best to move forward and be well. I hope you can find someone to treat you. <3

 

[Dolomite]

That lump is scary. I don’t know how old you but a lump, nausea, migraine, and dizziness/passing out sound like peri menopause symptoms. I never passed out but thought I might. It sounds like too much estrogen. It seems that no matter how a woman plans for it there will be symptoms. And like Ray Peat writes, hypothyroidism can start or become obvious at menopause. I hope you can find a doctor to help. Katharina Dalton’s book recommding a starch snack every three hours might help. You must be pretty tough to have come through your broken back so you can solve this. Like Janelle says, winter is the worst time for many of us. Sitting inside in front of a sunny window will help.

 

[Jennifer]

Thanks, guys. :)

@Cirion — Thank you for mentioning iodine. The majority of the last three years I took Dr. Morse's herbs, and many of them contained kelp fronds, particularly his endocrine formulas.

I actually commented on that thread Waremu started. I tried so many different forms and brands of dairy in the past — I was up to double digits with milk alone. The raw and cultured dairy was the worst for me. I suffered the least rashing, throat swelling and intestinal burning with the ultra pasteurized skim milk from Organic Valley. I'm hoping I'll be able to tolerate dairy again, now that I'm no longer dealing with the mold.

If you find you continue to have issues with milk, you could always try potato protein soup for a few days and see if it helps. Ray says it helps with digesting other proteins. The reintroduction/allergen-free diet that VoS gave me includes a few days on the PPS and then adding in small amounts of raw milk to it, eventually replacing it completely with the milk. I also plan on using marine collagen peptides and gelatin during the process, to help protect my gut lining, just in case.

@Janelle525 — Funny, you, Cirion and I are all looking to move to the Florida area. I've been looking at places by the coast near the Florida Georgia line. I don't think the winter helps me any but I've actually done better this winter, in terms of my adrenals and the anxiety attacks. I was feeling better when I added back the seafood and eggs, but I question if I finally used up my reserves. Prior to this I had eaten highly nutrient dense diets with Peating, RBTI, refeeding (on healthy foods, not Matt Stone's and youreatopia's free for all approach lol) and WAPF. Given my DEXA scans showed I improved my bone density by more than 50% while following WAPF recommendations, I can't help but think I require more than just fruit, seafood and eggs.

@Dolomite — I turned 38 in February. I've been passing out since I was little. I've struggled with low blood pressure most of my life due to my adrenals, which I suspect may be due to my thyroid. I get frequent blood work and my estrogen and prolactin have always come back at the bottom of the range and my progesterone is high (I think it was over 13 the last time it was checked). I suffer no PMS symptoms before or during my periods, not even breakouts or bloating, and bleeding is very mild, but could I still be estrogen dominant? Even small amounts of Progest-E used to knock me out but I was never sure if it was due to lowering cortisol.

 

[Blossom]

Jennifer, In 2016 I had a lump the size of my fist in one of my breasts that came on rapidly out of the blue. It was the beginning of fall and my thyroid had already started the seasonal decline. Ray helped me and I fortunately found a medical doctor that was reasonable and agreed to watch it along with me rather than go for immediate heroic measures. It started improving in days and was completely gone by my 6 week follow up IIRC. Thyroid and vitamin D were the primary interventions I used at the time and how I managed to keep it at bay until last year. I’ll try to find the email. I realize everyone is different though but just wanted to share my experience. Wishing you the best.

 

[Blossom]

I asked Ray Peat about why it might be that I notice breast pain from taking bioidentical progesterone like Progest-e and this was his response:

"Have you had a blood test for vitamin D and TSH? High estrogen increases the conversion of progesterone to the 5- metabolite, but thyroid and progesterone lower estrogen, preventing the exaggeration of that pathway. A vitamin D deficiency disturbs many hormones, and can cause breast pain."
Here are the studies he attached:
Endocrinology. 2003 Dec;144(12):5650-7.
Distinct molecular pathways mediate progesterone-induced growth inhibition and
focal adhesion.
Lin VC(1), Woon CT, Aw SE, Guo C.
(1)Department of Clinical Research, Singapore General Hospital, School of
Biological Sciences, School, Singapore 637616. [email protected].
We have reported previously that reactivation of progesterone receptor (PR)
expression in estrogen receptor (ER)- and PR-negative MDA-MB-231 breast cancer
cells enabled progesterone to inhibit cell growth and invasiveness, and to induce
remarkable focal adhesions. The present study addressed molecular mechanisms that
mediate these anticancer effects of progesterone in the PR-transfected breast
cancer cells ABC28. In response to progesterone treatment are the marked
up-regulation of cyclin-dependent kinase inhibitor protein p21WAF1/CIP1 and
decreased expression of cyclin A, cyclin B1, and cyclin D1 that are required for
G1 progression and during cell mitosis. Progesterone also induced down-regulation
of phosphorylated MAPK (p42/44 MAPK). Furthermore, this study also demonstrated
that MEK inhibitor PD98059 that inhibits the phosphorylation of p42/44 MAPK also
caused reduction of cyclin D1 level and inhibition of cell proliferation. These
results suggest that inhibition of p42/44 MAPK pathway is part of the mechanisms
mediating progesterone's growth-inhibitory effect. On the other hand,
progesterone-induced focal adhesion is mediated by separate pathway. Whereas
PD98059 exhibited no effects on cell adhesion, inhibitory antibody to
beta1-integrin was able to reverse progesterone-induced focal adhesion and
progesterone-induced increase in the phosphorylation of focal adhesion kinase. On
the other hand, beta1-integrin antibody had no effect on progesterone-mediated
growth inhibition and on progesterone-mediated expression of cyclins p21CIP1/WAF1
and phosphorylation of P42/P44 MAPK. In the context of complex functions of
progesterone in breast cancer and reproductive organs, identification of distinct
pathways offers new strategies for designing therapeutic agents to target the
specific pathway so as to minimize the side effects.

J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2005 Nov;97(3):278-88.
Membrane 5alpha-pregnane-3,20-dione (5alphaP) receptors in MCF-7 and MCF-10A
breast cancer cells are up-regulated by estradiol and 5alphaP and down-regulated
by the progesterone metabolites, 3alpha-dihydroprogesterone and
20alpha-dihydroprogesterone, with associated changes in cell proliferation and
detachment.
Pawlak KJ(1), Zhang G, Wiebe JP.
(1)Hormonal Regulatory Mechanisms Laboratory, Department of Biology, University
of Western Ontario, London, Canada.
Previous studies have shown that the progesterone metabolite,
5alpha-pregnane-3,20-dione (5alphaP), exhibits mitogenic and metastatic activity
in breast cell lines and that specific, high affinity receptors for 5alphaP are
located in the plasma membrane fractions of tumorigenic (ER/PR-positive) MCF-7
cells. The aim of this study was to determine the effects of the mitogenic
(estradiol; 5alphaP) and anti-mitogenic (3alpha-hydroxy-4-pregnen-20-one,
3alphaHP; 20alpha-hydroxy-4-pregnen-3-one, 20alphaHP) endogenous steroid hormones
on 5alphaP receptor (5alphaP-R) numbers and on cell proliferation and adhesion of
MCF-7 and MCF-10A cells. Exposure of MCF-7 cells for 24h to estradiol or 5alphaP
resulted in significant (p < 0.05-0.001) dose-dependent increases in 5alphaP-R
levels. Conversely, treatment with 3alphaHP or 20alphaHP resulted in significant
(p < 0.05-0.01) dose-dependent decreases in 5alphaP-R levels. Treatment with one
mitogenic and one anti-mitogenic hormone resulted in inhibition of the
mitogen-induced increases, whereas treatment with two mitogenic or two
anti-mitogenic hormones resulted in additive effects on 5alphaP-R numbers.
Treatments with cycloheximide and actinomycin D indicate that changes in
5alphaP-R levels depend upon transcription and translation. The non-tumorigenic
breast cell line, MCF-10A, was also shown to posses specific, high affinity
plasma membrane receptors for 5alphaP that were up-regulated by estradiol and
5alphaP and down-regulated by 3alphaHP. Estradiol binding was demonstrated in
MCF-10A cell membrane fractions and may explain the estradiol action in these
cells that lack intracellular ER. In both MCF-7 and MCF-10A cells, the increases
in 5alphaP-R due to estradiol or 5alphaP, and decreases due to 3alphaHP or
20alphaHP correlate with respective increases and decreases in cell proliferation
as well as detachment. These results show distribution of 5alphaP-R in several
cell types and they provide further evidence of the significance of progesterone
metabolites and their novel membrane-associated receptors in breast cancer
stimulation and control. The findings that 3alphaHP and 20alphaHP down-regulate
5alphaP-R and suppress mitogenic and metastatic activity suggest that these
endogenous anti-mitogenic progesterone metabolites deserve considerations in
designing new breast cancer therapeutic agents.

Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 2000 Jun 16;272(3):731-7.
Plasma membrane receptors for the cancer-regulating progesterone metabolites,
5alpha-pregnane-3,20-dione and 3alpha-hydroxy-4-pregnen-20-one in MCF-7 breast
cancer cells.
Weiler PJ(1), Wiebe JP.
(1)Hormonal Regulatory Mechanisms Laboratory, University of Western Ontario,
London, Canada.
Recent observations indicate that the progesterone metabolite,
5alpha-pregnane-3,20-dione (5alphaP), which is produced at higher levels in
tumorous breast tissue, promotes cell proliferation and detachment, whereas
3alpha-hydroxy-4-pregnen-20-one (3alphaHP), which is produced at higher levels in
nontumorous breast tissue, suppresses proliferation and detachment of MCF-7
breast cancer cells. The objective of the current study was to determine the
presence and characteristics of binding sites for these endogenous putative
cancer-regulating steroid hormones. Radiolabeled 5alphaP and 3alphaHP were used
in radioligand binding assays on MCF-7 cell (membrane, cytosolic, and nuclear)
fractions. Binding of [(3)H]5alphaP and [(3)H]3alphaHP was observed only in the
plasma membrane fraction, whereas estradiol binding sites were confirmed in the
cytosolic and nuclear fractions. The respective membrane binding sites exhibited
specificity for the 5alphaP and 3alphaHP ligands with no appreciable displacement
at 200- to 500-fold excess by other steroids. The association rate constants were
calculated as 0. 107/min and 0.0089/min and the dissociation rate constants were
0. 049 9 and 0.011 for 5alphaP and 3alphaHP, respectively. Saturation analyses
indicated single classes of molecules with dissociation constants of 4.5 and 4.87
nM and receptor densities of 486 and 629 fmol/mg protein, respectively, for
5alphaP and 3alphaHP. Exposure of MCF-7 cells to estradiol for 1, 24, 48, and 72
h resulted in 2.3, 4. 2-, 2.99-, and 1.7-fold increases, respectively, in 5alphaP
receptor density. 3alphaHP resulted in partial suppression of the
estradiol-mediated increase in 5alphaP receptor density. This is the first report
of receptors for the progesterone metabolites, 5alphaP and 3alphaHP, of their
occurrence in breast cancer cell membranes, and of the induction of 5alphaP
receptors by estradiol. The results provide further support for the potential
importance of progesterone metabolites in breast cancer.
Copyright 2000 Academic Press.

Breast Cancer Res. 2013 May 11;15(3):R38.
Progesterone metabolites regulate induction, growth, and suppression of estrogen-
and progesterone receptor-negative human breast cell tumors.
Wiebe JP(1), Zhang G(2,)(3), Welch I(4), Cadieux-Pitre HA(5).
(1)Department of Biology, The University of Western Ontario, London, Ontario,
N6A5B7, Canada. [email protected] (2)Department of Biology, The University of Western
Ontario, London, Ontario, N6A5B7, Canada. [email protected].
(3)Department of Anatomy & Cell Biology, Schulich School of Medicine & Dentistry,
The University of Western Ontario, London, Ontario, N6A 5C1, Canada.
[email protected]. (4)Department of Animal Care & Veterinary Services
and Department of Physiology and Pharmacology, Medical Sciences Building, The
University of Western Ontario, London, Ontario, N6A 5C1, Canada. [email protected].
(5)Department of Animal Care & Veterinary Services, Medical Sciences Building,
The University of Western Ontario, London, Ontario, N6A 5C1, Canada.
[email protected].
INTRODUCTION: Of the nearly 1.4 million new cases of breast cancer diagnosed each
year, a large proportion is characterized as hormone receptor negative, lacking
estrogen receptors (ER) and/or progesterone receptors (PR). Patients with
receptor-negative tumors do not respond to current steroid hormone-based
therapies and generally have significantly higher risk of recurrence and
mortality compared with patients with tumors that are ER- and/or PR-positive.
Previous in vitro studies had shown that the progesterone metabolites,
5α-dihydroprogesterone (5αP) and 3α-dihydroprogesterone (3αHP), respectively,
exhibit procancer and anticancer effects on receptor-negative human breast cell
lines. Here in vivo studies were conducted to investigate the ability of 5αP and
3αHP to control initiation, growth, and regression of ER/PR-negative human breast
cell tumors.
METHODS: ER/PR-negative human breast cells (MDA-MB-231) were implanted into
mammary fat pads of immunosuppressed mice, and the effects of 5αP and 3αHP
treatments on tumor initiation, growth, suppression/regression, and
histopathology were assessed in five separate experiments. Specific
radioimmunoassays and gas chromatography-mass spectrometry were used to measure
5αP, 3αHP, and progesterone in mouse serum and tumors.
RESULTS: Onset and growth of ER/PR-negative human breast cell tumors were
significantly stimulated by 5αP and inhibited by 3αHP. When both hormones were
applied simultaneously, the stimulatory effects of 5αP were abrogated by the
inhibitory effects of 3αHP and vice versa. Treatment with 3αHP subsequent to
5αP-induced tumor initiation resulted in suppression of further tumorigenesis and
regression of existing tumors. The levels of 5αP in tumors, regardless of
treatment, were about 10-fold higher than the levels of 3αHP, and the 5αP:3αHP
ratios were about fivefold higher than in serum, indicating significant changes
in endogenous synthesis of these hormones in tumorous breast tissues.
CONCLUSIONS: The studies showed that estrogen/progesterone-insensitive breast
tumors are sensitive to, and controlled by, the progesterone metabolites 5αP and
3αHP. Tumorigenesis of ER/PR-negative breast cells is significantly enhanced by
5αP and suppressed by 3αHP, the outcome depending on the relative concentrations
of these two hormones in the microenvironment in the breast regions. The findings
show that the production of 5αP greatly exceeds that of 3αHP in ER/PR-negative
tumors and that treatment with 3αHP can effectively block tumorigenesis and cause
existing tumors to regress. The results provide the first hormonal theory to
explain tumorigenesis of ER/PR-negative breast tissues and support the hypothesis
that a high 3αHP-to-5αP concentration ratio in the microenvironment may foster
normalcy in noncancerous breast regions. The findings suggest new diagnostics
based on the relative levels of these hormones and new approaches to prevention
and treatment of breast cancers based on regulating the levels and action
mechanisms of anti- and pro-cancer progesterone metabolites.

 

[Blossom]

My question to Ray was regarding rapid onset of mastitis in a middle-aged, non-lactating woman with a history of prolactinoma. The substances used for relief were aspirin, bromocriptine and topical lidocaine gel.

Ray's response:

Aspirin, lidocaine, and bromocriptine are all likely to help, but low thyroid is usually behind an excess of prolactin; in middle age, estrogen tends to rise as progesterone falls. A good T3 supplement is usually the quickest way to correct breast inflammation and pain. Have you checked your temperature and pulse rate? A sluggish intestine interferes with the excretion of estrogen, so raw carrots or a laxative can often, in just a day or two, increase the ratio of progesterone to estrogen. Extra salt in your food, and a little vitamin B6 could help to lower the prolactin. Low thyroid increases water retention but causes sodium loss, and that combination increases swelling and inflammation; the diuretic effect of tea or coffee might help with the swelling.

 

[Blossom]

@Jennifer I don’t know if there’s anything in the above two emails that applies to your situation!

 

[Jennifer]

Thank you so much for sharing, @Blossom!!! That makes me feel a lot better! If I'm not mistaken, thebigpeat also had a breast lump that went away while Peating. Mine feels just like a bean. Could I have presorbed a bean? lol You said you kept yours at bay until last year — it's completely gone now?

And thank you for posting the emails! They're helpful! Did you develop the lump after having been underweight and did you ever have an orange tint to your skin? The first time I ever became orange was after my weight started dropping. Even my face turned orange. It went away while following the WAPF diet. My palms are orange again.

 

[Blossom]

Thank you so much for sharing, @Blossom!!! That makes me feel a lot better! If I'm not mistaken, thebigpeat also had a breast lump that went away while Peating. Mine feels just like a bean. Could I have presorbed a bean? lol You said you kept yours at bay until last year — it's completely gone now?

And thank you for posting the emails! They're helpful! Did you develop the lump after having been underweight and did you ever have an orange tint to your skin? The first time I ever became orange was after my weight started dropping. Even my face turned orange. It went away while following the WAPF diet. My palms are orange again.

The breast lump was when I was at my heaviest weight. I'm not sure if it was connected but Ray seemed to think my body wasn't dealing with estrogen properly and the thyroid and vitamin D did definitely help. Whenever the pain would start coming back I would know I needed more thyroid.

I used to have orange palms years ago but haven't in quite a while. The thing that changed for me last year was (as you already know because I talked about it in this thread) going on the A elimination diet. I know that's not something your interested in so I'm not saying you need to do that! I'm just explaining what changed for me.

I do think for women things can get tricky in perimenopause and menopause with our hormones all over the place from day to day. You just went through a major change in your diet so I would expect your body is rebalancing right now on top of the normal hormonal things we already have to deal with. I do think you're on the right track by considering thyroid.

 

[Amazoniac]

Final update:

My thyroid has only gotten worse. I can barely stay awake now, my extremities are freezing, my hair has been falling out, my nails splitting, my once questionable cavity is now a full blown cavity and fruit now causes me cramping and diarrhea. Last Friday and Saturday I ate nothing but fruit to see if the animal protein was a factor and what a mistake that was. Saturday night ended badly for me.

I discovered a lump in my breast while changing for bed and at first, I wasn't too concerned because my mum has fibrocystic breasts so I figured I probably do too, but then my grandmother, who had breast cancer, crossed my mind and I got nervous and ended up asking my mum to check it. She told me it was likely nothing but to have my doctor look at it, and then I proceeded to pass out.

I was only able to get out "I'm passing o.." before waking up to my mum hugging me tightly and frantically yelling "Oh, God! What's happening to you?!" I was still woozy and a bit out of it but tried calming her down, telling her I was okay and that I just passed out but then I heard her say seizure. I was like "I had a seizure?!" and started freaking out. lol I swear God keeps us around for comic relief.

Apparently, she didn't hear me say I was passing out and instead, thought I was having a seizure. We're no strangers to vasovagal episodes and in the past, she always stayed calm and knew what to do but these days she panics because of some traumatic events we've experienced, especially in more recent years. Given my dramatic reaction, it's obvious my nervous system is fried, too.

The next morning I woke with a migraine and spent until the late afternoon vomiting and come evening, had gained enough strength to make myself some scrambled eggs with maple syrup and within 15 minutes, the migraine was gone. I've tried my best these past 10 years, but this is clearly beyond diet, herbs, release work and determination now.

I did some research and it seems breast lumps are common in women with hypothyroidism. Hopefully, mine is just a cyst and my doctor treats my thyroid. It used to be doctors refused me treatment because they believed I was lying about not starving myself and now that my weights up, doctors just see me as petite but I still struggle to get treatment, mainly because I still don't fit the typical hypo mold.

My last doctor acknowledged my weak thyroid and adrenals, but dropped the ball when it came to treatment. I was having to ask for standard tests, remind her to monitor my blood levels, actually point out when they were off and suggest a course of action, and even ask her to do basic diagnostics like taking my blood pressure and temp readings, something that used to be standard practice.

I'm all for being my own advocate and taking responsibility for my health, but I'm not a doctor with clinical experience, and this whole time having to learn while ill and caring for ailing loved ones for a majority of it has taken its toll on me, and not being able to tolerate anything but fruit only weakened my glands further because experience has shown that fruit alone doesn't provide my body everything it needs.

I would have taken thyroid on my own but given my liver and history with the mold and gut inflammation, it has been a challenge keeping my cholesterol high enough to take thyroid safely without monitoring my level. I can't afford to forgo my insurance and pay out of pocket for fairly frequent blood tests, and I need more than just "feels" to go by when supplementing hormones.

In hopes of overcoming my dairy allergy, I'm following a reintroduction diet that VoS had given me and will be asking my new doctor at my first appointment with her on the 25th if she would order blood tests and start me on NDT (WP thyroid) because despite my best efforts, I need support, at least for the time being, and I feel the most loving thing I can do for myself now is to accept it.

Back when I was at my worst, the RBTI practitioner I was working with at the time wanted me to go to Redding, California to visit a church known for its miraculous healings and I remember questioning why we couldn't heal everywhere, as if divinity didn't reside in and all around us, in our own backyards.

I was visiting my local farm and telling my friend, the farm manager, this and he raised his arms out to the sky and said "You don't get any more healing than this." He was right and as much as the lump scares me and makes me want to run in fear back to the land of restriction, the only place I'm headed is home.

Jennifer, why do you give external typhoid hormones so much importance? I understand the cholesterol concern but it's just a reason not to go brutal.

Given that you have a few weeks before you get your tests back, why don't you try venom D, antidote K, magnesium and perhaps a solid B-complex? All can be used topically if you is worried about aggravation of your current gut issues.

I mean, venom D for example can be as impacting as supplemental typhoid when you need it, especially the first hundreds of IU. 1000 IU absorbed a day can give you an idea. If you're concerned about using it as supplement, you can try the lamps.

Also, why not use Cron-o-meter to give you the averages of a week to know if there isn't anything clearly missing?

I understand that you must be fed up, but typhoid won't work alone, you will need ample nutrition either way.


This might interest you because we was once discussing good sources of iodine:
- Goitrogenic Fruits?


Is white rice soaked over the night disagreeable?

What about spinach or beet greens cooked with some sodium bicarbonate? They tend to be less problematic.

 

[charlie]

Jennifer, seems like another case of vitamin A toxicity.

 

[Jennifer]

@Blossom — Ah, okay. Gotcha!

Oh, I know you weren't saying I should do an A elimination diet. I understand you're just sharing your experience, which I very much appreciate. :) I did cut out high beta carotene fruits when I noticed my orange palms two weeks ago, but I couldn't do an A elimination diet even if I wanted to unless I went carnivore because I don't tolerate most of the low A foods.

@Amazoniac — It's a concern for me because when my cholesterol drops too low (has been as low as 115), I get suicidal depression and anxiety attacks. It dropped low even with 1/4 grain, but I was dealing with severe gastritis from the dairy and Ray told me:

"Low cholesterol can be caused by intestinal inflammation, and starches are a common cause."

"When your cholesterol is so low, your body can't respond fully to a thyroid supplement. Thyroid should cause the conversion of cholesterol to pregnenolone, progesterone, DHEA, and the other neurosteroids, but when cholesterol is too low it just increases stress hormones instead."

"Digestion is always poor when thyroid function is low."

So with trying to reintroduce dairy, I need frequent blood work in the beginning just to make sure my cholesterol hasn't dropped too low.

All starches, including soaked white rice and even bananas, cause me acid reflux, a burning gut and brain fog and all non-starchy veggies cause me cramping and migraines. I tried cooking spinach in sodium bicarb. and got a rash and acid reflux. This is exactly why I ended up back on a fruitarian diet after Peating. Hopefully, thyroid ends this cycle.

I logged my diet on crono a couple weeks ago and I don't meet the RDA for calcium and vitamins A, D and E. Everything else is covered:

Apple juice (100% apple juice)
Pear sauce (just cooked blended pears)
Honeydew
Thai coconut water
Maple syrup
Apple sweetener
White button mushroom broth with herbs and marine collagen peptides
Scallops
Skinless chicken breast
Skinless turkey breast
Skipjack tuna
Crab
Eggs
French sea salt

I've been doing fine with everything but the apple juice, pears and honeydew.

I'll consider getting some D. Thanks for the suggestion!

@charlie — I wish it were that simple.