Infertility?

[Bigbear]

Hello.
Not sure where to start really.
I have been looking at a lot of the rp stuff and although I find it quite a lot to absorb, it makes so much sense!
Just wondered if I could get a little advice if possible please?
I'm 41, have a 2 1/2 year old toddler and really want another. Had fertility issues before my first pregnancy with endo, cysts,fibroids etc. had a laparoscopy to remove some endo and another op to cyst. Was veggie for 20 years. Started to change diet and got preg but mc at 6 weeks. Worked with naturopath and had lab tests revealing stage three ad fatigue and very low progesterone. Had supps, diet change and successful preg 6 months later. Been preg twice since but chemical preg and last July only got to 9 weeks and mc again, was taking progest e at the time also. Had test since for levels and it said progesterone ok and oestrogen a bit high. 2 months after mc, my cycles have become an absolute nightmare. I have cramping straight after ovulation even though I'm taking one level of projuven in the morning and heaped in the evening, this is natural also. I have had pain in my right side for about 3 months and been to docs to arrange a scan as not getting any better. I know cysts come and go. I did an ovulation check on day 13 and it didn't detect any lh surge so I'm not ovulating either. Doctor told me that is to be expected at my age! I told her I'm not throwing in the towel, especially considering I was pregnant 7 months ago!!
I know this is mainly down to oestrogen dominance but I really need some advice as to how to stop it so that I can get pregnant again. I notice aspirin is used a lot ? Also I have read everywhere on web that natural progesterone is a great way to shrink cysts so why is it not working for me?
Your advice would be greatly appreciated as I'm feeling so down with all of this happening now.
Ps, although I'm new to the rp diet I have been eating mostly well with mostly fresh foods and no alcohol etc.
Thanks for taking the time to read my post xx

 

[charlie]

Bigbear, welcome to the forum.

Listen to what Mark Starr says about infertility, you may click on the link to take you to the search articles. I am a little short on time right now so cannot link every single one of them up:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAaPCemp81c[/youtube]

If it was my lady trying to get preggo. I would do the diet as strict as possible, also would get on dessicated thyroid as soon as possible, reduce stress as much as possible, do some bag breathing, maybe a little bit of aspirin. According to Peatarian, she says a ton of progesterone so I would probably go that route also since that will help the estrogen dominance. Would probably add a little bit of niacinamide in there, and vitamin E which is known as the fertility vitamin.

That being said, these are not my suggestions for you. Please read as much as you can and figure out the best plan of advancement that will work for you.

Here is a search on the forum in Ray Peats articles for a search on "infertility":

search.php?keywords=infertility&fid%5B0%5D=19

In my dissertation research under Goderwall, I had the opportunity to collect and assimilate data indicating an increased estrogen effect in aging animals and recently, with newer techniques, I have seen similar changes in many menopause women. My research showed that the probable mechanism by which estrogen excess causes infertility is through limiting the availability of oxygen. I showed that anti-estrogenic substances, such as progesterone or vitamin B, increased the oxygen content of the uterus. This anti-oxygen effect of estrogen suggests a convergence of reproductive aging research with Warburg's theory that damaged respiration is the primary defect in cancer and also with Selye's observation that estrogen's effect resembles the first shock phase of stress reaction.

Animal research in the 1930s was also showing that estrogen had many toxic effects, including causing infertility or intrauterine death, connective tissue abnormalities, and excessive blood clotting. Dr. Shute and his sons, Wilfred and Evan, were among those who considered vitamin E to be an antiestrogen. They found that it was very effective in preventing the clotting diseases of pregnancy.

My dissertation adviser, A.L. Soderwall, did a series of experiments in which he showed that providing hamsters with extra vitamin E postponed the onset of infertility in middle age. In my experiments, vitamin E increased the amount of oxygen in the uterus, correcting an oxygen deficiency produced either by supplemental estrogen or by old age. Progesterone has similar effects on the delivery of oxygen to the uterus.

Thomas H. McGavack's 1951 book, The Thyroid, was representative of the earlier approach to the study of thyroid physiology. Familiarity with the different effects of abnormal thyroid function under different conditions, at different ages, and the effects of gender, were standard parts of medical education that had disappeared by the end of the century. Arthritis, irregularities of growth, wasting, obesity, a variety of abnormalities of the hair and skin, carotenemia, amenorrhea, tendency to miscarry, infertility in males and females, insomnia or somnolence, emphysema, various heart diseases, psychosis, dementia, poor memory, anxiety, cold extremities, anemia, and many other problems were known reasons to suspect hypothyroidism.

In 1970, when I was beginning to see the ways in which unopposed estrogen and accumulated polyunsaturated fats interacted with a vitamin E deficiency during aging and in infertility, I got some prostaglandins to experiment with, since they are products of the oxidation of linoleic acid.

I felt that the situation should have been clear, because of the previous decades of research, and I used that as the context for arguing that the reason for age-related infertility was the same as for estrogen-induced infertility or stress-related infertility, namely, the inability to deliver oxygen to the embryo. I thought of the developing embryo as a sensitive indicator of processes that occur throughout the body during aging and stress, and that the destruction of the embryo by the excessive estrogen of the birth control pill was closely analogous to the progressive loss of function that occus in so many tissues during normal aging.

This applies to phytoestrogens and industrial estrogens as well as to the natural estrogens of the body. At a certain point, the increased estrogen and decreased thyroid and progesterone cause infertility, but before that point is reached, the hyperestrogenism causes a great variety of birth defects. Deformities of the male genitals, and later, testicular cancer in the sons and breast cancer in the daughters, are produced by the combination of toxins and nutritional deficiencies.

I am confident you are on the right track. Keep at it!

 

[Bigbear]

Wow, thanks for the speedy reply. I will start reading and watching. I hope peatarian replies also as would be good to know about the progesterone and if to up it more. It's a 3% one so the highest available in the uk. Doc did say my body could poss turn it into estrogen though if I'm really dominant already, I don't know?! They also told me the first few cycles of being on it can be tough as it wakes dormant sensors that have been "dumbed down" after years of high estrogen levels so I was prepared for it to be. Little rough for a start but not 5 months on with no let up. I'm now concerned progesterone is making it worse but don't see how this is possible as it seems to be the one thing that can really help? Sooo many confusions.

 

[Bigbear]

Also just to add, I was only taking 2 drops two or three times day of the progest e during my pregnancy last year, maybe this wasn't a high enough dosage? Would be great to get feed back from anyone who knows please and also how much I should be taking at the moment ? Thanks xx

 

[Spacehoppa]

Hi bigbear, I'm in the uk too! I too have had fertility issues, though now I have my two beautiful sons I am well and truly done. But I sympathise with your desire to have more. It sounds like you're on the right track, and yes, I would think 2 drops two or three times a day was too low during pregnancy, if your body doesn't make enough progesterone on its own. Be liberal with it at all times is my motto, but especially in pregnancy. Peatarian should totally chip in on this. Yes, those first few months are rough, and I think I may have pancreatitis to show for it currently, but hang in there and try and get some progest e again, as it's much stronger, and use more of it. I had cysts that resolved really quickly once I got on the progest e. if you're anything like me, you just need a higher dose than most.

 

[Bigbear]

Hi spacehoppa
Thanks s much for your reply. It's nice to know im not in my own although at my age I'm beginning to feel it. I keep hanging on to the fact that it was only 7 months that I was preg though. Is the progest e really stronger than the natural projuven 3%? Private doc told me my reactions to it are because I have had a proper progesterone before and the progesterone e wasn't as strong? I get confused with what to take but I'm getting such a rough ride with the projuven I'm wondering if its working as never had it with progest e bit I wasn't takin enough of it obviously, so may have the same reaction with that if taking high dose. I know that cycle changed before I started in the projuven and so know I need to take some kind of progesterone supp. Bit strange that cyst would happen whilst on it though as I know that it should get rid of them? I did ask doc an he raised dose slightly but not any changes after two more cycles still.

 

[Spacehoppa]

Hi bigbear, yes progest e is a 10% solution I think if memory serves, so much stronger than what you're currently using. I read somewhere, can't remember who now sorry, that if you don't supplement enough progesterone it can turn it into more estrogen. So bear that in mind that in your case probably more is better. Try dosing the symptoms. You should feel the side cyst pain subside at the right dose. The only thing is, you need to only use it in the last two weeks of your cycle in order to achieve pregnancy, so you might need to write a few cycles off whilst you get of the cysts, which I know is rough when time isn't on your side. Also, I believe miscarriages can screw with your cycles too, so that's a factor as well. I'm sorry for your losses. You must be a strong woman to have been through so much and keep going. Well done you...{{{ hugs}}}

 

[Bigbear]

Great thanks for the info spacehoppa. Definitely agree about if not enough it turns to oestrogen, all my symptoms point to that especially now with the cyst too. After having my baby and breast feeding so long I was havin really good cycles and its only recently gone pear shaped since mc.
So do I literally supp with progesterone until symptoms lesson? I just don't know how much to be taking, would I be kinda havin 4 drops ,3 times a day and see how it goes and up as I need to? Would it be full on, like well I still have cramps today so I'm having another 4 drops now, is it a suck it and see? I can't really overdose on it can i ?habe read some people have done a bottle in a week. I'm sorry so many questions but its so great to be chatting with like minded people and I would like to be clear on exactly what I'm doing so I don't make the mistake that I have listening to the other doc saying that I was in a high enough dose , even with all these symptoms! Anothe bottle of 3% cream I have I might as well slap it all on then for all the use its going to be :)
Thanks for the hugs, that really helps lift my spirits xx

 

[Beebop]

I did an ovulation check on day 13 and it didn't detect any lh surge so I'm not ovulating either.

Forgive me if you already know this and I'm stating the bleedin obvious :)
Do you use FAM to track when you ovulate? It doesn't always happen on day 14, it could be a whole week later depending on what's going on with your body.

So, it's possible you are ovulating, but you tested on the wrong day.

Very best wishes with it all!