Hi :)

Discussion in 'Meet & Greet' started by Shesjay, Aug 27, 2013.

  1. Shesjay

    Shesjay Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2013
    Messages:
    43
    Hi everyone,
    I don’t usually join these kind of things, but I’m always reading around on this forum and, well, I like it.

    So I’m Jay, from Australia. I'm only 20 years old. I had a restrictive eating disorder for 10 months (but didn’t realise this until recently, everyone thought I had a severe case of CFS). Just over 3 months ago I found some EastWest Healing Youtube videos which led me to Ray Peats work. This is when I saw the importance of food in general, but especially carbohydrates. So I quit my diet of fibre and water, started eating real food, and now I’m slowly getting better. I'm hoping to return to my university studies next year.

    I’ve gone from eating 200-600 calories each day to something between 2,000 & 3,000. I used to have muscle and joint pains all over, every day. Now I just get some back pain and the occasional joint pains. I don’t get nearly as many headaches. I never used to be able to read, write or talk for long. Now I can think clearly, and only fatigue gets in the way of these things sometimes. I can drive and shop again. I used to get dizzy often, and usually went black when I stood up. Now I only get dizzy occasionally (or when I need sugar). My amenorrhea is cured. My hair is growing back. But along with these good things, I now get pretty bad PMS, still have nerve problems, have acne, and worst of all – I’ve gained a ton of weight. Not quite a ton, but a lot, somewhere between 30 & 50 pounds (not allowed to know number). That’s definitely the worst part about Peating. I only needed to gain 10-12, so I now feel quite overweight. If I’m not, I’m borderline. The gain came with a double chin, and it's awful. I can’t figure out why I won’t stop gaining.

    I received my Progest-E today, but don’t know how to use it (was it meant to come with instructions?). Does anyone know if I should start it straight away, or wait until the second half of my cycle? Before I became sick I had been diagnosed with PCOS, so I don’t know if this is still a problem (the OCP that was meant to help it was probably more of a problem, and the vegetarian/almost vegan diet I ate at the time probably caused the PCOS in the first place). I also recently ordered Cynoplus & Cynomel in hopes that these will reverse my weight problem (and remaining symptoms). Is there anything else I can do? I'm already eating plenty of sugar in a good ratio to protein, along with coconut oil, raw carrots, occasional aspirins, liver, gelatin, good eggs & milk, salt, all that.

    I didn't intend to write all of that, thanks if someone has tips! Otherwise, just hi. :)
     
  2. messtafarian

    messtafarian Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2013
    Messages:
    814
    :) Hi:

    I know it's hard to hear this but it's actually a good thing that you are ten to twenty pounds "overweight" right now. At your age, when you have been that ill, the extra weight is protective and perhaps a "rebound" repadding of your adipose tissue. I know it's no fun to feel heavy ( believe me, I know) -- but your body does not care how you look in a swimsuit -- at your age what it really wants to do is make sure it's in good enough health to make babies and then grow old enough to see them go to college :).

    Progesterone is a really wonderful adjunct to a good diet if your endocrine system is showing androgenic tendencies. For PCOS, the standard instructions are to use it on days 14 to 28 of your cycle.

    Also: thyroid supplementation does not necessarily cause weight loss in every case. What it does is drive the metabolism for respiration and repair. Sometimes people who have thyroid problems are crazy skinny, and sometimes they are fat. If the metabolism is out of balance, weight will tend to be way outside the average curve one way or another but not necessarily always *over*.

    Since your nutrition has been so challenged over a period of time, using thyroid might help your metabolism heal generally and help you with your cycles and other health issues but I wouldn't look at it as a cureall to lose weight. I wish it worked that way!
     
  3. Mittir

    Mittir Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    2,034
    Welcome to the forum
    Ray Peat commented on the kind of problem people have after following a low calorie diet for sometime.
    It is the lack of protein in their diet causes their livers to loose ability to detoxify estrogen.
    After very low calorie diet you most likely have a weak liver and excess of estrogen.
    Focus on at least 80 grams of protein and B vitamins ,especially B1 and B2 to energize your liver.
    Check your temperature and pulse 2 hours after breakfast. Weekly seafood is needed for selenium
    to convert T4 to T3 in liver. You may want to limit fat to minimum , sugar increases metabolism
    way more than fat does. You can use 2-3 tsp of coconut oil in salad. 1 percent milk or low fat cottage cheese.
    I believe it will take some time to get adjusted to increased calories. Fat gain with sugar and saturated fat
    is not that harmful compared to the one with PUFA. Strictly avoid PUFA, that is the core of his recommendation.
    You can use cronometer to find your exact caloric intake.
    Using 250-500 watts of incandescent light is the easiest way to increase metabolism.
     
  4. Bluebell

    Bluebell Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2013
    Messages:
    437
    Hi, Shesjay, welcome! :)

    Mittir, do you recommend taking a supplement of the B1 and B2, and if so how much? Or can enough be got from food.

    Is shrimp/prawn adequate for getting the selenium, if there is no access to good oysters?
     
  5. Mittir

    Mittir Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    2,034
    @Bluebell
    RP has said that B2 vitamin supplement can be very allergenic. I get all my B vitamins from food,
    liver,OJ, meat, fish ,potato etc. I think i am bit lacking in B1. But i try my best to avoid supplements.
    I am allergic to seafood, so i take one 200 mcg selenium supplement every week. These are made from
    Yeast , this can increase estrogen.Not sure about the extent of estrogen increase.
    RP recommends weekly seafood. If shrimp is from ocean then there
    is good amount of selenium. But most shrimps in market are farm raised.
    You can get your RDA of selenium just from Milk, Beef, chicken breast, Egg yolk.
    Seafood is not essential.
     
  6. Bluebell

    Bluebell Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2013
    Messages:
    437
    That's interesting, thanks. I've experimented with Bs in the past and B2 supplement seemed to be one that gave me problems.

    As I move forward with the Peat diet, I'm finding I seem to feel better with no supplements at all. But then I keep experimenting with them again.

    It seems like the amounts of B vitamins in the commercial complexes are massive, way too high. People say that you urinate out the excess but I am not so sure about that. I don't feel well if I take B complex.

    Can we trust the RDA is correct, for making sure we get enough B vitamins? I track on cronometer and usually clear each one, though B1 sometimes lacks.

    Mittir, so you don't take any niacinamide supplement?
     
  7. OP
    Shesjay

    Shesjay Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2013
    Messages:
    43
    Thanks all. :)

    Messtafarian – it has helped me to read that. Thanks. Guess I shouldn’t have my hopes up about the thyroid supplements. But if they help, even just a little, I’ll be happy. If I can at least become healthy, I wouldn’t mind being overweight (as much).

    Mittir – Thanks for the tips.
    If my livers bad, would it show up in blood tests, do you know? I’m getting some results tomorrow and I know my liver was one of the things tested.
    I’m guessing that something like vegemite wouldn't be so good for the B vitamins?
    I probably eat too much fish (no other seafood), usually 3 servings each week. Where I live, we have beautiful lean fish from warm waters.
    It’s unfortunate that incandescent lights are banned over here.
     
  8. Peata

    Peata Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2013
    Messages:
    3,402
    Gender:
    Female
    Welcome to the forum, Shesjay.

    On the liver blood test, I wanted to say that in my experience I've always had numbers in the good range for liver tests, and yet on ultrasound it showed I had a bit of fatty liver.
     
  9. messtafarian

    messtafarian Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2013
    Messages:
    814
    It's true about the fatty liver --- seems everyone's got one of those these days, and they do not show up on liver function tests. The only thing that a liver function test would show would be an indication of fibrosis or hepatitis.

    On the other hand, this is a young girl and fatty liver tends to be present at that age in the severely obese, but not much of the reasonably sized population.

    So Shesjay, you probably do *not* have liver disease -- but the liver can be weak as all of our organs can become weak after severe malnutrition. Your liver is really important for detoxing the bad hormones Such as estrogen, so it's really important to eat well and not tax your liver unduly. Following Mittir's advice is a very healthy and effective strategy to get to an ideal weight!
     
  10. Mittir

    Mittir Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    2,034
    Here is a quote on Brewers Yeast from RP
    You can eat lean fish daily. It is the fat in fish that causes problem. Seafood once a week . Seafood can have lots of iodine, You do not want too much iodine. Meat, Fish both are high in phosphorus, you want to make
    sure you are getting at least equal amount of calcium and phosphorus, preferably more
    calcium than phosphorus. RP recommends 1200-2000 mg of calcium.
    Calcium and sodium both increases metabolism.

    Liver ALT and AST test shows abnormal liver enzyme. But i am not sure these results reflects liver's ability to detoxify
    estrogen and other substances. Beef liver has lots of B vitamins and other nutrient that supports our liver.
    3-6 oz of liver weekly is very important.

    I read that in countries where incandescent bulb is restricted they still sell heat lamp for chicken farmer and other purposes. Heat lamp is an incandescent bulb. There are two kind of heat lamp, one is red infra-red which emits
    red light and other type is typical clear incandescent which gives out yellowish light. You want the one with yellowish light. You also can use red LED lights.I do not know the specification of red LED lights. There are online articles on
    red LED devices that rejuvenate skin.
     
  11. Mittir

    Mittir Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    2,034
    I had similar experience with many different kind of B complex, capsule, liquid, sublingual etc.
    I do not take any Niacinamide now. But i have bought some and waiting for a
    good time to start. So i can figure out if this supplement is helping or hurting.
    Since i can not use aspirin, Niacinamide is the other option to restrict Free fatty acid
    damage.
     
  12. j.

    j. Guest

    They are probably available under other names, because incandescent lights of high intensities are used for chicks and other animals.

    Using the so-called energy saving bulbs is probably harmful to your health and vision. An alternative is getting a warm white led. It's expensive, like $10 per light, but you could just buy one and put it in the room where you spend most time. When you get a LED light, I want to emphasize, it's important that the color is warm white, or if it indicates its color temperature (which is typical), it should be 3000K or less.
     
  13. OP
    Shesjay

    Shesjay Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2013
    Messages:
    43
    Yeah, my liver is appearing okay. I did also have an ultrasound a few days ago to check for gallstones. Everything that they checked looks normal. My blood test showed that my ferritin isn’t good, though. It has dropped from 64 ug/L last November, to 17 in June, and now it’s down to 6 (normal 25-110). I hope that they find the cause – I’m already eating too much red meat. I’m also not happy that my cortisol is still in the higher range (558 nmol/L, am, range 160-650). Though, when I wasn’t eating well, it was found to be over 3x the maximum level once, and high other times… My endocrinologist said "maybe you were stressed to have the test"... :roll:

    Mittir - I think I’m going to up my liver intake to 2 serves (3 oz each) per week. I do prefer the taste of lamb liver, do you know if that is just as good for the B vitamins?
    I’ve entered everything into cronometer for the last 3 days, and I usually only get half the recommended amount of B3 (except when I have liver). Maybe I should buy some?

    Good to know about the lights, thanks (j, also). I looked up about some things – I didn’t know that halogen lights were incandescent. There’s a few of those around my house…
     
  14. Mittir

    Mittir Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    2,034
    Lamb liver is higher in most nutrient than beef liver including Vitamin A, B vitamins and Iron.
    But beef liver has more copper and less iron. If you have iron deficiency then lamb liver is a better choice.
    Did your doctor measure your Transferrin Saturation index ( also called iron index). Doctors needs both
    ferritin and iron index to get good idea about iron storage. Usually if Iron index is low
    the ferritin is low too. Does your doctor know you had a very restricted diet for a year?
    That can be a possible cause for low iron status.
    Too much red meat can block thyroid, high tryptophan in muscle meat is anti thyroid.
    You have to get calcium from other sources to balance high phosphorus of meat.
    Low thyroid increases cortisol level. Frequent small meals with protein, sugar and some fat
    helps blood sugar and cortisol in check. Gut irritation also increases cortisol.
    Did they test your thyroid? Knowing TSH and total T3 can give you an idea
    if things are improving or not.You do not want high TSH and low T3.
    Coffee is a rich source of Niacin. RP has said you need about 100 mg of niacinamide
    once or twice a day to block free fatty acids. I am guessing you may have less
    PUFA storage since you were on a restricted diet for almost a year.
    Not everyone have good reaction to high dose niacinamide. It is a good idea to take things slow.
     
  15. Swandattur

    Swandattur Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    1,137
    Location:
    Florida
    Mittir, I notice you mention chicken breast. I eat skinless chicken breast, but even though it might be high quality, the feed is probably standard grain. I have allergic reactions to dairy and gelatin; so I need some kind of variety in protein. It doesn't have that much PUFA.
     
  16. Bluebell

    Bluebell Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2013
    Messages:
    437
    wow, yes, I'm just the same. I've tried it so many times. It can ramp me up in an artificial way, then after a few days just starts feeling toxic.

    However I seem to be able to take certain Bs alone OK, though I never carry on with them for that long.

    I'm often waiting for a good time to test out a supplement, a time when I know I'm feeling good and not using anything else that could affect results.
     
  17. Mittir

    Mittir Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    2,034
    I have switched to chicken from beef, due to high iron content. RP used to recommend against chicken
    for it's PUFA content. But in an recent interview he said in chicken PUFA does to reach the muscle tissue due it's
    high body temperature. If someone removes skin and trims fat, chicken breast is very low in PUFA.
    100 grams of chicken breast has 11 mg of niacin. You still have high amount of phosphorus compared to calcium .
    RP has said some people chew on chicken bone for calcium. You can use egg shell powder or other way to
    increase calcium. I have noticed if i have some calcium with muscle meat it feels much better than
    without it. I used to have intolerance of dairy and gelatin.
    Now i am fine with dairy . You can start with 1/4 cup or 1/2 of milk and slowly increase your intake.
    It takes about 3 weeks of exposure for body to activate enzyme system to digest milk.
     
  18. Swandattur

    Swandattur Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    1,137
    Location:
    Florida
    Thanks, Mittir! That's interesting about the chicken breast. I really get tired of beef. Also, interesting that having calcium with muscle meat feels better. Dairy doesn't give me noticeable digestive symptoms other than constipation, possibly. I get allergy type symptoms like sneezing and stuffy nose and then I go on to fever blisters. It could be it was more the gelatin causing fever blisters. I'm not sure.
     
  19. OP
    Shesjay

    Shesjay Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2013
    Messages:
    43
    Thanks for that, Mittir!
    I don't know if this is the iron index, it only says "iron", but it is also on the low end (6, range 5-30), and saturation is low - 8 (range 20-55). I'm not even having much coffee, or anything.
    Is the tryptophan in milk a problem also, then?
    The last time my thyroid was checked it was all okay, though they only did free T3.
    I don't think my PUFA intake was too bad, though I did eat flaxseeds (daily) and salmon. At least I didn't use PUFA oil.
     
  20. Mittir

    Mittir Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    2,034
    It looks like your iron storage is low. Did your doctor give you supplement or dietary guideline to increase
    iron? Pork liver is very high in iron, 18 mg per 100 grams. Beef spleen is also very high. Chicken liver has about 10 mg.
    Chocolate and tea both inhibit iron absorption.
    Tryptophan in milk is not a problem, calcium in milk keeps tryptophan safer.
    But regular bone broth or gelatin has lots of other health benefits.
    Just avoid protein rich foods after sunset., except for gelatin rich food.
    A glass of milk before bed is not a problem. It is good to know your TSH.