Hair Loss - Depression - High Prolactin

[Dhair]

Thank you both Jackrabbit and Dhair. I will try Pansterone for a couple of months and then depending on my results i will add/move to Lisuride

I haven't seen evidence that either pregnenolone or DHEA can significantly lower prolactin. I wouldn't wait 2 months, but that's just my opinion. Of course there are other drugs you could use besides lisuride, but it would be a shame for you to suffer for two more months when you have already identified what's wrong. Ray Peat is usually very cautious and specific when it comes to recommending drugs and treatments, and even he says that a person would need an anti-serotonin/dopaminergic drug to correct very high prolactin.

 

[Jackrabbit]

From Ray’s article ‘Blocking Tissue Destruction’ :
“Prolactin (which is promoted by estrogen, and inhibited by progesterone) increases with stress and with age.”
And
“Pregnenolone is the material the body uses to form either progesterone or DHEA. Others, including DHEA, haven't been studied for so long, but the high levels which are normally present in healthy people would suggest that replacement doses, to restore those normal levels, would not be likely to produce toxic side effects.”

 

[dreamcatcher]

Hello everyone,

I am a 28 year old male suffering from hair loss and depression. Both seem to be interlinked as both started 8 years ago with the effects of especially depression being more severe in the past 3 months. I weight around 168 pounds, aprox. 15% fat, 5ft9" and i am going to the gym 2-4 times per week (since 19 years old) lifting weights only. I usually sleep 7-8 hours, weekends sometimes 9-10 hours, Monday's 5-6 hours.

I have been peating for around 6 months following mostly Danny Roddy's advise. I have noticed some benefits (but it could be a placebo) like increased energy and sometimes increased focus. Also my hands and feet used to be cold old the time and now significantly less so.

I have done the below blood tests 2 days ago and also added my average heart rate and temperature. I have never done another blood test before so not sure whether those improved since i started Peating.

Average Heart Rate: 78 (increased from 65 since Peating)
Average Temperature: 96.44 (Increased slightly since Peating)
Cholesterol: 233 mg/dL (HDL 51 mg/dL, LDL 162 mg/dL)
Triglycerides: 99 mg/dL
SGPT: 21 U/L
Carbon Dioxide: 26 mmol/L
Calcium: 10.2 mg/dL
Phosphorus: 3.6 mg/dL
TSH: 1.32
Parathyroid hormone: 24.4 pg/ml
Prolactin: 45 ng/mL
Testosterone: 6.42 ng/mL
Estradiol: 18.2 pg/mL
Total Iron: 169

My diet:

7:30AM:

500ml Freshly Squeezed OJ
3 Organic Free Range Eggs fried in coconut oil
300ml of Full fat Organic Cow's Milk
Taking 5,000 IU of Vitamin D3 (holland and barret brand)
Taking vitamin K2 (m4 form) 100mcg

10:00AM:

400 Grams of Melon
200 Grams of Grapes
80 Grams of Organic Matured Cheddar

13:00PM:

200Grams of Cooked Grass Fed Beef ('lean'stewing cuts cooked in slow cooker)
300 Grams of Organic White Potato (cooked in slow cooker)
1 can of Coke 330ml

13:30PM:

Coffee with aprox. 24 grams of Gelatin (Great Lakes kosher) and 2 teaspoons of sugar

18:30

750ML Freashkly Squeezed OJ
300Grams of Cottage cheese with aprox. 40 grams of organic honey
1 raw organic Carrot

21:30

250 Grams of Haagen Dasz (usually vanilla)

I also eat Grass Fed Beef Liver or Lamb weekly (200Grams).
I also eat around 2 meals per week in restaurants (pizza usually)


*edit** i forgot to add that i add a lot of salt to everything i eat


I am considering adding the below supplements to help bring my Prolactin down:

Vitamin E 300mg (still looking for a good one i live in the UK looking for suggestions, i have read some threads in this forum but i cant find an ideal choice)
Zinc 50mg
Vitamin B6 100mg
L-dopa 240mg

Please help with the below. Any suggestions are welcome:

Any recommendations for brands that are available in the UK for the above supplements will be very helpful, also changes or additions to those.

Do you think its worth doing further tests like Copper, Zinc and Cortisol?

I want to drop my TSH to under 1. I dont have access to Thyroid and i am not sure whether continuing this diet will improve this? Or any other suggestions on how to improve this?

I am also looking for suggestions on how to go about my Prolactin. I am not sure whether my high prolactin is causing the depression and hair loss or whether my 'Psychological State' is causing the high Prolactin. I suspect that is could be my 'Psychological State as my liver seems fine and TSH and parathyroid hormone are not 'that' high. Should i seek the help of a Psychologist/Psychiatrist?

Any diet changes suggestions (note that i cant drink too much milk at once over 500ml or drink milk with cottage cheese or ice cream as i get mild side effects (Usually Gas).

Thank you for reading and excuse my poor 'Peating' knowledge. I have only been 'researching' for around 6 months and 99% of what i read i dont understand until i read about 50 times.

I would add Ashwagandha and Agnus Castus to lower prolactin levels, progesterone in safe amounts for males; biotin and taurine.

I would also eat more vegs as a source of different vitamins and minerals. Best of luck.

 

[Jackrabbit]

https://raypeatforum.com/community/attachments/pregnenolone_androgen_synthesis-png.4027/I should change my previous post today that you might want to actually try a higher dose of pregnenolone, but not dhea.
If you look at this diagram posted by haidut in another thread about pregnenolone, it shows that until you start getting to about 2uM/s of pregnenolone, you won’t see much of a significant increase in progesterone. That amount would give you a boost in the androgens as well as progesterone which is what is protective against estrogen and therefore prolactin, at least according to Ray Peat. According to haidut, 2uM/L should be achievable with about a 50mg dose of pregnenolone? @haidut, would you mind chiming in and letting us know if 100-150mg would suffice to achieve an increase in progesterone (aka delta 4 on the chart), according to your calculations? I thought that was the amount that Ray Peat typically suggests and doesn’t seem like it would interfere too much with androgen synthesis.

 

[fradon]

How do i eliminate the free copper from my system?
Do you think 200gr of beef liver per week is sufficient copper? I am not a big fun of oysters or other coppery seafood

liver once a week is a good sournce of copper

eliminating copper can be done with foods high in zinc, molybdenum,

molydbenum is coppers direct antagonist

also sweating from exercise. lower estrogen, lower fat, reduce stress

have adequate dhea which helps bind copper

 

[Dhair]

From Ray’s article ‘Blocking Tissue Destruction’ :
“Prolactin (which is promoted by estrogen, and inhibited by progesterone) increases with stress and with age.”
And
“Pregnenolone is the material the body uses to form either progesterone or DHEA. Others, including DHEA, haven't been studied for so long, but the high levels which are normally present in healthy people would suggest that replacement doses, to restore those normal levels, would not be likely to produce toxic side effects.”

You have to consider those comments in context.
Saying that progesterone is partially responsible for inhibiting prolactin in the body is quite different from saying that pregnenolone/progesterone should be used to fix a high prolactin problem. Progesterone certainly doesn't seem like a practical solution for an otherwise healthy young male with a high prolactin level.

 

[Jackrabbit]

You have to consider those comments in context.
Saying that progesterone is partially responsible for inhibiting prolactin in the body is quite different from saying that pregnenolone/progesterone should be used to fix a high prolactin problem. Progesterone certainly doesn't seem like a practical solution for an otherwise healthy young male with a high prolactin level.

I disagree. Ray Peat often comments that pregnenolone is a very safe supplement, and small amounts of progesterone directly wouldn’t hurt, either, especially to help reverse prolactin because as he stated in his article, the root cause of prolactin is estrogen. Unless you just want to address the symptoms and not the root cause I would say pregnenolone is a very suitable choice, especially if used in the correct dosage.
Found another quote from haidut on the same thread that should answer the question:
“I think taking 10mg pregnenolone 5-10 times daily orally will have very different effect than taking 50mg - 100mg in a single setting. It would be more balanced in smaller, frequent doses as it would go down both the progesterone and DHEA pathyways. In higher single doses it would be mostly a progesterone and allopregnanolone effect, so not very androgenic for males but maybe perfect for females. Topical pregnenolone (dissolved in DMSO) will to gown along 3 pathways - the 5-AR route (5a-DHP, allopregnanolone), the 3b-HSD route (DHEA) route, and remaining as unchanged pregnenolone. Exactly what percentage of the pregnenolone will go down each route is unknown, but it is known that topical pregnenolone feels more androgenic than oral”
My thinking is that the op is trying to oppose prolactin, so having the pregnenolone go at least somewhat down the progesterone path would be preferable to it going totally down the androgen path. So perhaps about 20mg of pregnenolone, orally two to three times through the day, then a dose of pansterone applied topically (about 10mg ea of dhea and pregnenolone.)

 

[Jackrabbit]

By the way, @Dhair, I think we can agree to disagree on this subject matter, I don’t necessarily have an issue with lisuride or bromocriptine, but I would disagree that it would be my first line of defense in this case.

 

[haidut]

https://raypeatforum.com/community/attachments/pregnenolone_androgen_synthesis-png.4027/I should change my previous post today that you might want to actually try a higher dose of pregnenolone, but not dhea.
If you look at this diagram posted by haidut in another thread about pregnenolone, it shows that until you start getting to about 2uM/s of pregnenolone, you won’t see much of a significant increase in progesterone. That amount would give you a boost in the androgens as well as progesterone which is what is protective against estrogen and therefore prolactin, at least according to Ray Peat. According to haidut, 2uM/L should be achievable with about a 50mg dose of pregnenolone? @haidut, would you mind chiming in and letting us know if 100-150mg would suffice to achieve an increase in progesterone (aka delta 4 on the chart), according to your calculations? I thought that was the amount that Ray Peat typically suggests and doesn’t seem like it would interfere too much with androgen synthesis.

In my experience, pregnenolone doses up to 50mg daily are optimal for androgen synthesis without boosting the progesterone pathway too much. Adding a bit of DHEA, even as little as 5mg, greatly increases that effect.

 

[Jackrabbit]

In my experience, pregnenolone doses up to 50mg daily are optimal for androgen synthesis without boosting the progesterone pathway too much. Adding a bit of DHEA, even as little as 5mg, greatly increases that effect.

Thanks. Would there be anything bad about increasing the progesterone pathway, if the person wanted to boost progesterone? I thought that Ray Peat typically recommends 100-150mg of pregnenolone, is that because he prefers it go down that pathway? I’m assuming it’s less problematic for females than males.

 

[haidut]

Thanks. Would there be anything bad about increasing the progesterone pathway, if the person wanted to boost progesterone? I thought that Ray Peat typically recommends 100-150mg of pregnenolone, is that because he prefers it go down that pathway? I’m assuming it’s less problematic for females than males.

Nothing wrong with it, but males need androgens too. So, if there is evidence that pregnenolone on its own does not raise DHEA levels then adding a bit of DHEA should help address the androgen pathway and the pregnenolone will take care of the estrogen pathway.

 

[REOSIRENS]

Hello everyone,

I am a 28 year old male suffering from hair loss and depression. Both seem to be interlinked as both started 8 years ago with the effects of especially depression being more severe in the past 3 months. I weight around 168 pounds, aprox. 15% fat, 5ft9" and i am going to the gym 2-4 times per week (since 19 years old) lifting weights only. I usually sleep 7-8 hours, weekends sometimes 9-10 hours, Monday's 5-6 hours.

I have been peating for around 6 months following mostly Danny Roddy's advise. I have noticed some benefits (but it could be a placebo) like increased energy and sometimes increased focus. Also my hands and feet used to be cold old the time and now significantly less so.

I have done the below blood tests 2 days ago and also added my average heart rate and temperature. I have never done another blood test before so not sure whether those improved since i started Peating.

Average Heart Rate: 78 (increased from 65 since Peating)
Average Temperature: 96.44 (Increased slightly since Peating)
Cholesterol: 233 mg/dL (HDL 51 mg/dL, LDL 162 mg/dL)
Triglycerides: 99 mg/dL
SGPT: 21 U/L
Carbon Dioxide: 26 mmol/L
Calcium: 10.2 mg/dL
Phosphorus: 3.6 mg/dL
TSH: 1.32
Parathyroid hormone: 24.4 pg/ml
Prolactin: 45 ng/mL
Testosterone: 6.42 ng/mL
Estradiol: 18.2 pg/mL
Total Iron: 169

My diet:

7:30AM:

500ml Freshly Squeezed OJ
3 Organic Free Range Eggs fried in coconut oil
300ml of Full fat Organic Cow's Milk
Taking 5,000 IU of Vitamin D3 (holland and barret brand)
Taking vitamin K2 (m4 form) 100mcg

10:00AM:

400 Grams of Melon
200 Grams of Grapes
80 Grams of Organic Matured Cheddar

13:00PM:

200Grams of Cooked Grass Fed Beef ('lean'stewing cuts cooked in slow cooker)
300 Grams of Organic White Potato (cooked in slow cooker)
1 can of Coke 330ml

13:30PM:

Coffee with aprox. 24 grams of Gelatin (Great Lakes kosher) and 2 teaspoons of sugar

18:30

750ML Freashkly Squeezed OJ
300Grams of Cottage cheese with aprox. 40 grams of organic honey
1 raw organic Carrot

21:30

250 Grams of Haagen Dasz (usually vanilla)

I also eat Grass Fed Beef Liver or Lamb weekly (200Grams).
I also eat around 2 meals per week in restaurants (pizza usually)


*edit** i forgot to add that i add a lot of salt to everything i eat


I am considering adding the below supplements to help bring my Prolactin down:

Vitamin E 300mg (still looking for a good one i live in the UK looking for suggestions, i have read some threads in this forum but i cant find an ideal choice)
Zinc 50mg
Vitamin B6 100mg
L-dopa 240mg

Please help with the below. Any suggestions are welcome:

Any recommendations for brands that are available in the UK for the above supplements will be very helpful, also changes or additions to those.

Do you think its worth doing further tests like Copper, Zinc and Cortisol?

I want to drop my TSH to under 1. I dont have access to Thyroid and i am not sure whether continuing this diet will improve this? Or any other suggestions on how to improve this?

I am also looking for suggestions on how to go about my Prolactin. I am not sure whether my high prolactin is causing the depression and hair loss or whether my 'Psychological State' is causing the high Prolactin. I suspect that is could be my 'Psychological State as my liver seems fine and TSH and parathyroid hormone are not 'that' high. Should i seek the help of a Psychologist/Psychiatrist?

Any diet changes suggestions (note that i cant drink too much milk at once over 500ml or drink milk with cottage cheese or ice cream as i get mild side effects (Usually Gas).

Thank you for reading and excuse my poor 'Peating' knowledge. I have only been 'researching' for around 6 months and 99% of what i read i dont understand until i read about 50 times.

Triiodothyronine lowers prolactin and lifts depression
Make sure you have tyrosine in your diet as well
Caffeine with progesterone and aspirin is great against inflammation/depression

 

[Motif]

What's a safe dose of progesterone for men?

 

[Motif]

How do i eliminate the free copper from my system?
Do you think 200gr of beef liver per week is sufficient copper? I am not a big fun of oysters or other coppery seafood

Any update on your situation?

 

[BigChad]

liver once a week is a good sournce of copper

eliminating copper can be done with foods high in zinc, molybdenum,

molydbenum is coppers direct antagonist

also sweating from exercise. lower estrogen, lower fat, reduce stress

have adequate dhea which helps bind copper

so copper supplements, like copper bisglycinate, would cause high prolactin/high estrogen?
is it okay to take copper supplements as long as you have good vitamin A intake, to create the bound copper

 

[BigChad]

Vitamin c, molybdenum, zinc, and iron chelate copper.

manganese and chromium also oppose copper supposedly and help excrete it? manganese having a stronger effect when combined with zinc