Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

[LLight]

Moreover, we have compared abscisic
acid levels in two groups of rats fed with two very different diets (Table 1). One group consisted of animals fed for two generations on a synthetic diet containing a very low level (lower by a factor of 300 than for control rats) of abscisic acid.
The abscisic acid contents of the rat brains were not correlated with the amounts of abscisic acid in the diet. In fact, animals fed on the abscisic acid-poor diet had more abscisic acid in their brains than did control animals.

Presence of abscisic acid, a phytohormone, in the mammalian brain.

This paper reports the presence of abscisic acid, one of the most important phytohormones, in the central nervous system of pigs and rats. The identification of this hormone in brain was made after extensive purification by using a radioimmunoassay that ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The results of this study is reanalyzed in another publication:

The authors were surprised about the presence of a phytohormone in mammalian brain and kept rats on an ABA-deficient diet for a long time. To their surprise, the ABA diet-deficient rats almost doubled the content in the brain, suggesting that ABA is possibly synthesized in the absence of external supplies. Some years later, others discovered greatly reduced ABA concentrations in brain samples of ruminants but confirmed the high concentrations in rodents (91). As an explanation, the authors pointed out that ruminants had bac- teria in the upper intestine whereas rats have them in the distal part. Indeed, ABA is produced by gut bacteria (92, 93).

Frontiers | Torpor: The Rise and Fall of 3-Monoiodothyronamine from Brain to Gut—From Gut to Brain?

3-Monoiodothyronamine (T1AM), first isolated from rat brain, is reported to be an endogenous, rapidly acting metabolite of thyroxine. One of its numerous eff...

www.frontiersin.org

Abscisic acid is a phytohormone analogous to retinoic acid:

Retinoid acid (RA) plays critical roles in regulating differentiation and apoptosis in a variety of cancer cells. Abscisic acid (ABA) and RA are direct derivatives of carotenoids and share structural similarities.

Could the low vitamin A diet paradoxically lead to gut bacteria synthesis of vitamin A or abscisic acid? Is this what could explain the increase of vitamin A blood analyses during the diet, instead of detox?

 

[orangebear]

1500 IU per day in these women led to a higher accumulation than previously thought, and it is suggested that this "Estimated Average Requirement" is set too high. It looks like in the context of our modern toxic environment, a reasonable daily intake of vitamin A would be significantly lower - maybe 500 IU per day.

Vitamin A isotope dilution predicts liver stores in line with long-term vitamin A intake above the current Recommended Dietary Allowance for young adult women

Background: The Estimated Average Requirement (EAR) and Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for vitamin A are 1.7 and 2.4 μmol/d (500 and 700 μg retinol activity equivalents/d), respectively, for nonpregnant, nonlactating women aged >19 ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I think a low-ish vA diet can be an effective bandaid, but I think the inability to clear vA out of the system points to a deeper issue, such as impaired ADH or ALDH enzymatic activity. Lowering the vA intake to avoid accumulating it and its metabolites is probably a good idea, but it's a workaround, just like a keto diet is for poor carb metabolism. The problem is that while we can try to control vA intake, we can't control all the things entering our bodies in our toxic environments, and limiting ourselves to only the lowest vA foods almost guarantees an eventual deficiency in something or other that will exacerbate the problem. So we should be asking ourselves which biochemical processes are impaired in our bodies and how to fix them so that we can handle more vA in our diets safely; not to indulge in the highest of vA foods but to have a varied diet that provides all the nutrients we need while being able to clear out all the things we don't need in the food (which practically every food contains some bad things).

Those are my thoughts after doing low vA, high fiber for a bit over a year, and in the past few months adding eggs, niacinamide, and a few other things into my diet. The low vA bandaid worked for a good while but the results did taper off after some time and things were slowly getting a bit worse. The eggs helped with constipation and have helped reduce swelling in my hands and feet, but also gave me anxiety after a month or so. Then I learned that with my genetics I have a tendency to overmethylate, and choline without fixing some other deficiencies can lead to overmethylation, so I've also been trying to address those. It's still too early to tell, but I think things do go deeper than just vA. It's a useful tool to have in the toolbox, but I don't think it covers everything.

 

[orangebear]

Presence of abscisic acid, a phytohormone, in the mammalian brain.

This paper reports the presence of abscisic acid, one of the most important phytohormones, in the central nervous system of pigs and rats. The identification of this hormone in brain was made after extensive purification by using a radioimmunoassay that ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The results of this study is reanalyzed in another publication:

Frontiers | Torpor: The Rise and Fall of 3-Monoiodothyronamine from Brain to Gut—From Gut to Brain?

3-Monoiodothyronamine (T1AM), first isolated from rat brain, is reported to be an endogenous, rapidly acting metabolite of thyroxine. One of its numerous eff...

www.frontiersin.org

Abscisic acid is a phytohormone analogous to retinoic acid:


Could the low vitamin A diet paradoxically lead to gut bacteria synthesis of vitamin A or abscisic acid? Is this what could explain the increase of vitamin A blood analyses during the diet, instead of detox?

Certainly an interesting question.

 

[mosaic01]

but I think the inability to clear vA out of the system points to a deeper issue, such as impaired ADH or ALDH enzymatic activity.

What if the deeper issue is manmade EMF including satellites, made worse by vaccines and modern toxins including glyphosate? There's no escape from EMF except by very extreme measures.

Moving into a pristine area without modern technology, grounding all day and being outside is likely the solution to impaired vitamin a-metabolism. Vitamin A is simply the most sensitive marker of low metabolic activity that worsens with each generations since the 1880s - the invention of artificial electricity. Not being able to burn through 1500 IU of Vitamin A every day would have been laughable 100 years ago.

If we are at the point where one needs to adopt a diet of 500 IU per day, than things are pretty bad. Without consciously eating a low-a diet, it's impossible to stay below that eating whole foods.

The worldwide programs to add vitamin A into everything by the elites alongside vaccines and EMF, suggest that what we are looking at is some kind of reprogramming attempt to change human nature into something else.

 

[orangebear]

What if the deeper issue is manmade EMF including satellites, made worse by vaccines and modern toxins including glyphosate? There's no escape from EMF except by very extreme measures.

Moving into a pristine area without modern technology, grounding all day and being outside is likely the solution to impaired vitamin a-metabolism. Vitamin A is simply the most sensitive marker of low metabolic activity that worsens with each generations since the 1880s - the invention of artificial electricity. Not being able to burn through 1500 IU of Vitamin A every day would have been laughable 100 years ago.

If we are at the point where one needs to adopt a diet of 500 IU per day, than things are pretty bad. Without consciously eating a low-a diet, it's impossible to stay below that eating whole foods.

I agree with you there. The inability to process vA is a sign of impaired metabolism.

The worldwide programs to add vitamin A into everything by the elites alongside vaccines and EMF, suggest that what we are looking at is some kind of reprogramming attempt to change human nature into something else.

Maybe, but it's also possible that people chasing profit over anything else can have these sort of side effects as well.

 

[charlie]

View: https://twitter.com/NutriDetect/status/1679596765220155393

 

[Sinjin]

Presence of abscisic acid, a phytohormone, in the mammalian brain.

This paper reports the presence of abscisic acid, one of the most important phytohormones, in the central nervous system of pigs and rats. The identification of this hormone in brain was made after extensive purification by using a radioimmunoassay that ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The results of this study is reanalyzed in another publication:

Frontiers | Torpor: The Rise and Fall of 3-Monoiodothyronamine from Brain to Gut—From Gut to Brain?

3-Monoiodothyronamine (T1AM), first isolated from rat brain, is reported to be an endogenous, rapidly acting metabolite of thyroxine. One of its numerous eff...

www.frontiersin.org

Abscisic acid is a phytohormone analogous to retinoic acid:


Could the low vitamin A diet paradoxically lead to gut bacteria synthesis of vitamin A or abscisic acid? Is this what could explain the increase of vitamin A blood analyses during the diet, instead of detox?

If that were the case then why would the blood levels of VA then fall after the intial rise? The theory that the rise in blood VA is caused by the the liver detoxing VA seems to fit people's experience better, e.g. I believe Grant's serum VA is very close to zero now

 

[LLight]

If that were the case then why would the blood levels of VA then fall after the intial rise?

Is it a pattern documented for many people?

Personally, I don't find the "your liver need you to stop eating vitamin A to start detoxing" theory very satisfying.

 

[mosaic01]

Smith right again.

It should be noted that this was only a subset of women, and that there are many hidden sources of vitamin a nowadays. The study was based on self reported food intake.

Spices and vegetable concentrates in processed foods come to mind. It seems they are adding carrot concentrate to everything nowadays. The entire food chain is now being engineered to include as much vA as possible. Plants are manipulated, animals are supplemented, foods are fortified, humans are supplemented via skin care and supplements. If a convenient low-vA diet of whole foods can easily approach 500-1,000 IU, it's likely that every health conscious person eating a whole foods diet is vA toxic nowadays.

But I think it's also a general problem that many people don't really know what they primarily ate in the last years.

We need a study done in a controlled environment, measuring vA intake, turnover and excretion in the context of, for example, good zinc, vitamin D and protein status. It would need to include the actual lab measured vA intake of the foods eaten.

We may discover that people who think they get 3,000 IU actually get double the amount. Pairing beta-carotene with fat alone could make 3-4mg beta-carotene highly toxic and be equivalent to 1mg retinol.

 

[Sinjin]

Is it a pattern documented for many people?

Hard to say; its only documented through people in Garret's/Grant's groups, and the many people in the group don't regular test their serum VA. but there are certainly people who are decreasing their serum VA over the long term. But yeah, others can get stuck over the short/medium term.

Personally, I don't find the "your liver need you to stop eating vitamin A to start detoxing" theory very satisfying.

There's still alot we don't know about detoxing VA hence why Grant himself isn't widely recommding the VA detox diet yet

 

[Sefton10]

If cholesterol, thyroid, and vitamin A are needed for steroid synthesis, how can vitamin A be a poison?

 

[youngsinatra]

If cholesterol, thyroid, and vitamin A are needed for steroid synthesis, how can vitamin A be a poison?

View attachment 53140

I have yet to see a good scientific paper on this. If you have a resource on how vitamin A is involved in steroidogenesis, please share.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.1246630

 

[mosaic01]

Could the low vitamin A diet paradoxically lead to gut bacteria synthesis of vitamin A or abscisic acid?

Isn't abscisic acid synthesized from carotenoids? So you would still need carotenoids in the diet for the gut bacteria to manufacture abscisic acid or retinol.

 

[LLight]

Isn't abscisic acid synthesized from carotenoids? So you would still need carotenoids in the diet for the gut bacteria to manufacture abscisic acid or retinol.

That's a very good question. Are gut bacteria able to synthesize abscisic acid (and retinol if it's the case) from "nothing" or do they need exogenous carotenoids?

I've done a quick research and the answer could be that it's not known yet.

In contrast to plants, however, very little is known about the ABA biosynthesis and signaling in other organisms.

Abscisic Acid as Pathogen Effector and Immune Regulator

Abscisic acid (ABA) is a sesquiterpene signaling molecule produced in all kingdoms of life. To date, the best known functions of ABA are derived from its role as a major phytohormone in plant abiotic stress resistance. Different organisms have developed ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[orangebear]

If cholesterol, thyroid, and vitamin A are needed for steroid synthesis, how can vitamin A be a poison?

I think Grant has done some great work in demonstrating that we don't need large amounts of vA and that come people can improve their health on a diet designed to deplete excess vA, but the temptation to jump to the conclusion that it means that vA is a poison bar none is just that: a temptation based on good but limited observations. I think the issue is that vA metabolism can become impaired in some people and that can lead to abnormal accumulation of vA, and hypervitaminosis A is certainly a well documented condition that is bad. It's just that acute hypervitaminosis A is easier to detect and explain than chronic hypervitaminosis A. The concept is a new one to many, but can you see how it is plausible? If this is the case then a low vA diet can be an effective workaround, but it's not necessarily guaranteed to solve the underlying metabolic issue. That said, I believe the issue is real and it needs to be found (it might be several issues that are different for different people) and addressed rather than dismissed.

 

[Apple]

I think Grant has done some great work in demonstrating that we don't need large amounts of vA and that come people can improve their health on a diet designed to deplete excess vA, but the temptation to jump to the conclusion that it means that vA is a poison bar none is just that: a temptation based on good but limited observations. I think the issue is that vA metabolism can become impaired in some people and that can lead to abnormal accumulation of vA, and hypervitaminosis A is certainly a well documented condition that is bad. It's just that acute hypervitaminosis A is easier to detect and explain than chronic hypervitaminosis A. The concept is a new one to many, but can you see how it is plausible? If this is the case then a low vA diet can be an effective workaround, but it's not necessarily guaranteed to solve the underlying metabolic issue. That said, I believe the issue is real and it needs to be found (it might be several issues that are different for different people) and addressed rather than dismissed.

But still Grant's expierence doesn't prove much regarding vA. He also talks how vit C and D are poisonous too... That's possible.
His diet is devoid of most irritants/offenders of modern diet (and intermittent fasting) , it is gluten free, dairy free, vegetables free, no pork and chicken, no soy, no oils, no eggs, no nuts, no oats, no nightshades, almost no coffee -no sugar-no salt-no fruits. It is possible to live on such a diet for long time, I don't have doubts about it, as long as it is sufficient in vit Bs. There were centenarians who lived exclusively on oats or piece of bread and water. It is possible to blame any vitamin or nutrient on such a diet, just there is no proof that positive effect is exclusively due to vA elimination. Grant complained that a bit of onion made him feel bad too and same with coffee/sugar... So it just can be anything and then he tries to connect it to vA and so on.

 

[orangebear]

But still Grant's expierence doesn't prove much regarding vA. He also talks how vit C and D are poisonous too... That's possible.
His diet is devoid of most irritants/offenders of modern diet (and intermittent fasting) , it is gluten free, dairy free, vegetables free, no pork and chicken, no soy, no oils, no eggs, no oats, no nightshades, almost no coffee -no sugar-no salt-no fruits. It is possible to live on such a diet for long time, I don't have doubts about it, as long as it is sufficient in vit Bs. There were centenarians who lived exclusively on oats or piece of bread and water. It is possible to blame any vitamin or nutrient on such a diet, just there is no proof that positive effect is exclusively due to vA elimination. Grant complained that a bit of onion made him feel bad too and same with coffee/sugar... So it just can be anything and then he tries to connect it to vA and so on.

It's certainly possible that a lot of things he attributes to vA could be attributed to other things, but the fact that he's been doing pretty well compared to before on a low vA diet for almost a decade certainly says something about the overblown necessity of the compound. The experiments with rodents and low vA diets that also have no retinoic acid having different results from the classic experiments is also interesting. Again, I would argue that some of the conclusions are premature but I think there is certainly value in his work and in further experimentation.

 

[orangebear]

As for the idea I expressed about impaired vA metabolism, a large portion of that has to do with the ADH and ALDH enzymes. An impairment in the function of said enzymes can result in the accumulation of many other nutrients in toxic amounts and even straight up toxins besides vA. That's why if one has an issue with the function of those enzymes it would be a good idea to address that. There are other enzymes and systems involved in utilizing, breaking down, and expelling vA and other substances that you would rather not have build up.

 

[Hidden49]

Saw this lol (check pics bellow), no one’s allowed to say anything other than Vit A is only a toxin over there.

What Garret needs to realise that before he found Genereux he was overdosing his own patients and himself on 30k iu Vit A supplements for a few years. Plus with the addition of eating brightly coloured foods and liver probably and other fat soluble vits like Vit D so no wonder they all had issue Vitamin A toxicity issues….

So that is making him unbelievably biased towards the idea that Vit A is only a toxin…

 

[orangebear]

@Hidden49 lol "I may have been wrong in the past, but there is no way I could ever be wrong again. How dare you question my wisdom handed down directly from God?!"