Georgi Dinkov's Latest Research Trial: Dosages

[TurnOfTheTide]

I am new to this forum, but have been introduced to Georgi Dinkov and following his Twitter feed and haidut.me website/blog.

In recent research he tested a protocol of B1/B3/B7 + Aspirin against a very deadly cancer and had good success. Many of you probably read through that Twitter Feed.

Someone on his feed asked for the HED of his protocol.

His answer: "Daily dose (administered once daily, orally): ~15mg/kg vitamin B1 (thiamine), ~30mg/kg vitamin B3 (niacinamide), ~1.5mg/kg vitamin B7 (biotin), and ~15mg/kg aspirin. Not high at all. No known human toxicity at those doses for any of the compounds."

Do any of you know whether he meant this response as the dosages he gave the mice? Or does HED need calculated off of this. I did some calculations on an average sized person, but the dosages seem really high.

 

[haidut]

I am new to this forum, but have been introduced to Georgi Dinkov and following his Twitter feed and haidut.me website/blog.

In recent research he tested a protocol of B1/B3/B7 + Aspirin against a very deadly cancer and had good success. Many of you probably read through that Twitter Feed.

Someone on his feed asked for the HED of his protocol.

His answer: "Daily dose (administered once daily, orally): ~15mg/kg vitamin B1 (thiamine), ~30mg/kg vitamin B3 (niacinamide), ~1.5mg/kg vitamin B7 (biotin), and ~15mg/kg aspirin. Not high at all. No known human toxicity at those doses for any of the compounds."

Do any of you know whether he meant this response as the dosages he gave the mice? Or does HED need calculated off of this. I did some calculations on an average sized person, but the dosages seem really high.

Those doses are the HED based on the mouse doses. The mouse doses were 200mg thiamine, 400mg/kg niacinamide, 40mg/kg biotin, 200mg/kg aspirin. You can see the mouse doses in the screenshot with tumor volume - i.e. the graph on the right showing the tumor volume for each mouse over time. The mouse doses are listed under the graph.

 

[Morten]

I am new to this forum, but have been introduced to Georgi Dinkov and following his Twitter feed and haidut.me website/blog.

In recent research he tested a protocol of B1/B3/B7 + Aspirin against a very deadly cancer and had good success. Many of you probably read through that Twitter Feed.

Someone on his feed asked for the HED of his protocol.

His answer: "Daily dose (administered once daily, orally): ~15mg/kg vitamin B1 (thiamine), ~30mg/kg vitamin B3 (niacinamide), ~1.5mg/kg vitamin B7 (biotin), and ~15mg/kg aspirin. Not high at all. No known human toxicity at those doses for any of the compounds."

Do any of you know whether he meant this response as the dosages he gave the mice? Or does HED need calculated off of this. I did some calculations on an average sized person, but the dosages seem really high.

From Haiduts answer, the dosages seems very high. Do I understand correct?

 

[Elderflower j58]

Maybe the mouse dose should be mcg not MG ,in any way this needs to be clarified

 

[haidut]

From Haiduts answer, the dosages seems very high. Do I understand correct?

Not really, much higher doses of the vitamins or aspirin have been used clinically with little ill effect. There are humans studies with thiamine for Alzheimer disease that used 3g-8g daily with little ill effects. Same with niacinamide. There have been several human trials for diabetes that used 6g-8g daily, without issues. Same with biotin - there have been several trials with 300mg daily for multiple sclerosis and other neurological conditions. Same with aspirin - a HED of 15mg/kg daily translates to 1g-1.5g for most people, which sounds high but the clinically used doses for things like rheumatoid arthritis or IBD are in the 4g-8g range.

 

[haidut]

Maybe the mouse dose should be mcg not MG ,in any way this needs to be clarified

The doses used were in milligrams (mg), not micrograms (mcg).

 

[ecstatichamster]

Thanks @haidut for clarifying!!

 

[TurnOfTheTide]

Thank you for the response @haidut. I really needed that clarification. So many folks I follow (Mercola for example) say no more than 150mg Niacinamide per day in three divided doses.

I was trying to look at real-world application for an average sized person of maybe 78kg. I calculated 1170mg of Thiamine, 2340mg of Niacinamide, 117mg of Biotin, and 1170mg of Aspirin. Can anyone verify that I am calculating that correctly. I realize that a person without disease wouldn't need those doses, and I guess if a person had cancer that you would try whatever necessary to try and kill it.

It's not like chemo and radiation wouldn't make a person sick with side effects, eh?

 

[TurnOfTheTide]

This is all parabolic learning. And having to unlearn things at the same time. All with a backdrop of having a huge perspective change with whether to trust the general medical community and their recommendations. Wow, it has been a mind-shift.

 

[haidut]

Thank you for the response @haidut. I really needed that clarification. So many folks I follow (Mercola for example) say no more than 150mg Niacinamide per day in three divided doses.

I was trying to look at real-world application for an average sized person of maybe 78kg. I calculated 1170mg of Thiamine, 2340mg of Niacinamide, 117mg of Biotin, and 1170mg of Aspirin. Can anyone verify that I am calculating that correctly. I realize that a person without disease wouldn't need those doses, and I guess if a person had cancer that you would try whatever necessary to try and kill it.

It's not like chemo and radiation wouldn't make a person sick with side effects, eh?

Well, let's keep in mind this is trying to treat a serious condition. I would not take such doses on a daily basis just for kicks In the absence of serious pathology, I think Ray's recommendations on 50mg-100mg thiamine for cognitive boost, and 200mg-300mg niacinamide for mitochondrial boost would be fine, and then aspirin for cancer prevention 2-3 times weekly at a single tablet (325mg) each time.

 

[TurnOfTheTide]

Well, let's keep in mind this is trying to treat a serious condition. I would not take such doses on a daily basis just for kicks In the absence of serious pathology, I think Ray's recommendations on 50mg-100mg thiamine for cognitive boost, and 200mg-300mg niacinamide for mitochondrial boost would be fine, and then aspirin for cancer prevention 2-3 times weekly at a single tablet (325mg) each time.

I look forward to following your continued research against cancer with these four natural interventions. Maybe the dosages will not need to be that high for less lethal cancers. Maybe lower dosages over and extended period of time. Or maybe even if there is surgical removal of the primary tumor, the doses could be lower to prevent the development of recurrence. Just speculating. I have had prostate cancer in the past and so many folks getting cancer diagnoses in my sphere of relationships right now.

Wanting to keep my eye and mind open to ways to support the 'taming' of rouge cells. Dr. Samsuddin, of IP6/Inositol research fame, used that kind of language when talking about high dose IP6/Inositol. That it wasn't cytotoxic, but that it tamed cancer cells in a dose & time dependent manner. Then they are able to commit a normal cell cycle death (apoptosis). And are eliminated. I have been taking mega-doses of IP6 Gold for over four months without any negative effect.

 

[feather]

The doses used were in milligrams (mg), not micrograms (mcg).

Georgi

What would the human doses be for this study. Which cancer did this help?

 

[Morten]

Thank you for the response @haidut. I really needed that clarification. So many folks I follow (Mercola for example) say no more than 150mg Niacinamide per day in three divided doses.

I was trying to look at real-world application for an average sized person of maybe 78kg. I calculated 1170mg of Thiamine, 2340mg of Niacinamide, 117mg of Biotin, and 1170mg of Aspirin. Can anyone verify that I am calculating that correctly. I realize that a person without disease wouldn't need those doses, and I guess if a person had cancer that you would try whatever necessary to try and kill it.

It's not like chemo and radiation wouldn't make a person sick with side effects, eh?

I get the same calculating results.

 

[Morten]

Well, let's keep in mind this is trying to treat a serious condition. I would not take such doses on a daily basis just for kicks In the absence of serious pathology, I think Ray's recommendations on 50mg-100mg thiamine for cognitive boost, and 200mg-300mg niacinamide for mitochondrial boost would be fine, and then aspirin for cancer prevention 2-3 times weekly at a single tablet (325mg) each time.

should one take the large cancer fighting combo in one shot daily? or throughout the day. With food?

 

[TurnOfTheTide]

@haidut i was laying in bed thinking about your experiment and all the folks that I know with cancer right now. Stage IV. And one gal I know who is probably going to be put on hospice any day. I wish, under ‘right to try’ she could get an IV and have your HED of the B1/B3/B7 + Aspirin dripped to see if maybe her body would respond. It’s like, what does she have to lose? Doctors are giving up on her anyway. So sad.

 

[TurnOfTheTide]

@haidut More contemplations on all this. This is just theoretical banter, but I was thinking further about my own sister's passing from colo-rectal cancer. She ended up with metastasis (caused by the chemo they gave her, from what I could discern). Then she ended up with so much pain she asked for hospice, and they basically starved her to death, which putting together some concoction we rubbed on her wrists which sedated her as controlled the pain. We sat by her bed, rotating for about three months before she passed. I have heard of people fasting for 40 days and having their body eat their tumor and then they became NED and cancer free for years. So, I wonder whether my sister even still had cancer after starving her for that long. That made me think about whether a protocol like you use with those mice could be administered through IV when a person was put on hospice, as a 'right to try' option. This is kind of like my prior post, but just was some additional thinking in between. I would be curious your thoughts.

 

[youngsinatra]

Don‘t these huge doses of single B vitamins create a potential deficiency in the other B vitamins?

For example if I‘d take 100mg+ biotin per day, I‘d be worried about potential B5 deficiency because of the intestinal transport-competition between B5 and biotin.

Also, wouldn’t such high doses of B1 (TPP) and B3 (NAD) create a higher demand/pressure on B2 (FAD) and B5 (CoA) because those are also involved in the pyruvate dehydrogenase complex?

Or would you just take a B complex alongside this therapy? (theoretically speaking - not medical advice of course)

 

[Morten]

Don‘t these huge doses of single B vitamins create a potential deficiency in the other B vitamins?

For example if I‘d take 100mg+ biotin per day, I‘d be worried about potential B5 deficiency because of the intestinal transport-competition between B5 and biotin.

Also, wouldn’t such high doses of B1 (TPP) and B3 (NAD) create a higher demand/pressure on B2 (FAD) and B5 (CoA) because those are also involved in the pyruvate dehydrogenase complex?

Or would you just take a B complex alongside this therapy? (theoretically speaking - not medical advice of course)View attachment 61926

Great comment, thought of something similar....

 

[freyasam]

Not really, much higher doses of the vitamins or aspirin have been used clinically with little ill effect. There are humans studies with thiamine for Alzheimer disease that used 3g-8g daily with little ill effects. Same with niacinamide. There have been several human trials for diabetes that used 6g-8g daily, without issues. Same with biotin - there have been several trials with 300mg daily for multiple sclerosis and other neurological conditions. Same with aspirin - a HED of 15mg/kg daily translates to 1g-1.5g for most people, which sounds high but the clinically used doses for things like rheumatoid arthritis or IBD are in the 4g-8g range.

@haidut Would you recommend similar high doses for ME/CFS (Myalgic encephalomyelitis / chronic fatigue syndrome)? Would all these B's be needed for ME/CFS? Anything else? In desperate need to improve from this awful illness. Thank you.

 

[Morten]

Don‘t these huge doses of single B vitamins create a potential deficiency in the other B vitamins?

For example if I‘d take 100mg+ biotin per day, I‘d be worried about potential B5 deficiency because of the intestinal transport-competition between B5 and biotin.

Also, wouldn’t such high doses of B1 (TPP) and B3 (NAD) create a higher demand/pressure on B2 (FAD) and B5 (CoA) because those are also involved in the pyruvate dehydrogenase complex?

Or would you just take a B complex alongside this therapy? (theoretically speaking - not medical advice of course)View attachment 61926

Could the B1 be Thiamine HCL? I have 250 mg capsules from Nutriota. Pretty cheap. Seen hard for me to find a vendor in the EU that sells ThiaminePyroPhosphate. And those who exits is expensive and low dose.