Estrogen Is Absolutely Critical For Men

[Hairlosssucks]

What I’m scared of is bone demineralisation and height loss

 

[TheBeard]

He’s saying hcg before I do pct ie clomid or nolva to bring back my balls.

My dht is probably higher than its ever been body hair growth after losing weight has increased.

If I raise e via clomid does it stay raised?

I could try boron to raise e2, but studies indicates it takes around 2 weeks.

Body hair growth and clear semen are in no way indicative of high DHT.
You seem like all you want to hear is from your "buddy", and none of this advice on this forum, I don't know why anyone would keep replying to you

 

[Hairlosssucks]

Body hair growth and clear semen are in no way indicative of high DHT.
You seem like all you want to hear is from your "buddy", and none of this advice on this forum, I don't know why anyone would keep replying to you

fair enough, sorry if I’m coming across like an idiot, I need all the advice I can get right now.

im just convinced it’s low estrogen as I’m getting joint pain, weird feeling in my teeth and spine. I’m scared it could be bone loss and demineralisation as I’ve been like this for a while now

 

[Blossom]

Get bloodwork done (T, free T, E2 Sensitive, DHT, Progesterone, Prolactin), by just throwing in drugs things will rather go worse than better.

I agree.

I could try boron to raise e2, but studies indicates it takes around 2 weeks.

I’m using it and it’s helped a lot with my menopause symptoms.

 

[vulture]

I wouldn't listen to your buddy, HCG isn't an PCT drug, it's suppressive.
The new symptoms you described sound like low DHT.
Get bloodwork done (T, free T, E2 Sensitive, DHT, Progesterone, Prolactin), by just throwing in drugs things will rather go worse than better.

Hi. Why is HCG supressive? Even low doses? Seems to keep T levels up after supression and testicles working

 

[sebastian_r]

Hi. Why is HCG supressive? Even low doses? Seems to keep T levels up after supression and testicles working

As soon as you go off HCG, your T levels will be worse than the baseline before. It mimics LH and in the process shuts down natural / endogenous LH production.
Suppression of HPTA due to:
- increased aromatase activity via increased testicular aromatase expression (high e2)
- negative feedback loop of LH, body shuts down endogenous production due to excess exogenous source

 

[TheBeard]

Hi. Why is HCG supressive? Even low doses? Seems to keep T levels up after supression and testicles working

Suppression means some part of the HPTA is suppressed.
In this case it's the H part: HCG acts as an LH agonist, when the brain senses this it downregulates LH and GNRH production, regardless of what T or e2 levels the HCG addition is producing

 

[schultz]

Yeh I do. I’ve dropped weight and lost fat which means even less aromatisation. My t is higher but it’s not being converted. I think I’ve also damaged my hpta axis for being at low estrogen for so long now.

It seems like you're merely guessing though. Really you have no idea what's going on, but at the same time you're coming up with a stack of drugs to take to remedy the theoretical problem.

You're on a forum dedicated to Ray so I am going to assume you have some interest in learning what he thinks. You should read his articles, especially about estrogen. Forget about the forum for a bit.

Clearly you have something wrong with you, but I sincerely doubt that your estrogen is too low. Before you go on a supplement binge, you should really consider the problem thoughtfully. Step back and take your time in trying to figure it out. The danger in swinging wildly in the dark is that you make things worse and more complicated.

 

[vulture]

As soon as you go off HCG, your T levels will be worse than the baseline before. It mimics LH and in the process shuts down natural / endogenous LH production.
Suppression of HPTA due to:
- increased aromatase activity via increased testicular aromatase expression (high e2)
- negative feedback loop of LH, body shuts down endogenous production due to excess exogenous source

Any study on effects after?
Im using just 100 IU EOD

 

[Hairlosssucks]

As soon as you go off HCG, your T levels will be worse than the baseline before. It mimics LH and in the process shuts down natural / endogenous LH production.
Suppression of HPTA due to:
- increased aromatase activity via increased testicular aromatase expression (high e2)
- negative feedback loop of LH, body shuts down endogenous production due to excess exogenous source

Could the dhea I took caused testicular aromatise expression, suppressing me a bit?.

 

[vulture]

As soon as you go off HCG, your T levels will be worse than the baseline before. It mimics LH and in the process shuts down natural / endogenous LH production.
Suppression of HPTA due to:
- increased aromatase activity via increased testicular aromatase expression (high e2)
- negative feedback loop of LH, body shuts down endogenous production due to excess exogenous source

BTW, I would also appreciate studies on the different T esters and it's effects on supression.

 

[Aries]

BTW, I would also appreciate studies on the different T esters and it's effects on supression.

1mg of testosterone reaching blood is equally suppressive whether it's from ester or not. All TRT options will suppress LH to zero. If your blood levels raise LH drops. If LH doesn't drop you have absorption issues and you aren't getting the benefits of the medication either.

The main difference that esters make are the half lives. Your recovery to natural state begins once endocrine disrupting chemicals are out of your system. For example testosterone undecanoate cumulates for about two years which will clearly be seen in labs of peaks/throughs. Stopping long ester cold turkey will leave trace amounts haunting your system and feedback loops for months (years) while plain testosterone with half life of hours will leave your system completely much faster and recovery of endogenous production by natural feedback loops may begin.

In practice supplementing sub 10mg of test shuts you down without giving benefits in return. Stopping long esters cold turkey leave you to this limbo for extended period of time which is why the best PCT is to switch to short esters before quitting.

Some also claim that recovery is faster if you use HCG to reverse/prevent testicle atrophy because they are then ready to just wait signal from pituitary. I think it's likely broscience as well, because the endogenous production is regulated by hypothalamus which is shut down by HCG as well. I think recovery from HCG mono is fast because it has a short life but I have never seen any proof it'd be faster than from non ester testosterone.

 

[TheBeard]

BTW, I would also appreciate studies on the different T esters and it's effects on supression.

Instead of asking for countless studies you can take your little fingers and go to the search bar of NCBI.

 

[TheBeard]

Some also claim that recovery is faster if you use HCG to reverse/prevent testicle atrophy because they are then ready to just wait signal from pituitary. I think it's likely broscience as well, because the endogenous production is regulated by hypothalamus which is shut down by HCG.

I am the one who claimed that, and I got it from Dr Rand McClain who is far from a bro scientist.
Pituitary signalling is instantaneous once the body senses a T or E deficiency, no matter how long the shutdown has lasted, it's not a gland that atrophies.
On the other hand, testicles are glands that atrophy when unused, which is the reason why it takes time to get them back to their full functionnality.

 

[Aries]

I am the one who claimed that, and I got it from Dr Rand McClain who is far from a bro scientist.
Pituitary signalling is instantaneous once the body senses a T or E deficiency, no matter how long the shutdown has lasted, it's not a gland that atrophies.
On the other hand, testicles are glands that atrophy when unused, which is the reason why it takes time to get them back to their full functionnality.

There is certainly a crash from stopping HCG mono, it isn't instant like that. Maybe it is still faster than from atrophied testicles but many just do it wrong to begin with stopping cold turkey from enanthate etc. On the other hand you don't really lose anything from keeping balls online by low dose HCG during cycle/TRT or for the last few months before quitting at least.

 

[vulture]

Instead of asking for countless studies you can take your little fingers and go to the search bar of NCBI.

Did before, didn't find anything specifically regarding difference in supression time regarding esters, aside from obvious thing that undecanoate having a longer life obviously will have you on T effects for longer therefore you will have to wait more time for exogenous T to drop...

I am the one who claimed that, and I got it from Dr Rand McClain who is far from a bro scientist.
Pituitary signalling is instantaneous once the body senses a T or E deficiency, no matter how long the shutdown has lasted, it's not a gland that atrophies.
On the other hand, testicles are glands that atrophy when unused, which is the reason why it takes time to get them back to their full functionnality.

So I assume you find useful to always keep HcG administration if you are having hope to stop T supplementation

 

[Aries]

Did before, didn't find anything specifically regarding difference in supression time regarding esters, aside from obvious thing that undecanoate having a longer life obviously will have you on T effects for longer therefore you will have to wait more time for exogenous T to drop...

As testosterone is capable of causing complete suppression without an ester it is indeed obvious that extending its half life is causing longer lasting suppression. Are you curious what would happen if esters without steroids are administred?

 

[Hairlosssucks]

I am the one who claimed that, and I got it from Dr Rand McClain who is far from a bro scientist.
Pituitary signalling is instantaneous once the body senses a T or E deficiency, no matter how long the shutdown has lasted, it's not a gland that atrophies.
On the other hand, testicles are glands that atrophy when unused, which is the reason why it takes time to get them back to their full functionnality.

maybe my problem just isn’t an estrogen problem. My balls have shrunk, ejaculate is low and my libido has been decreasing for months now?. Could I be crashed?

Maybe the dhea I took crashed me. I can’t think of any other reason why I have no libido and small testicles.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Anyone have any idea on what would case hair thinning & recession in men with already low enough Estrogen?

 

[Lokzo]

Cordyceps.