Excess Thyroid Increases Estrogen?

[whit]

Thank you all! This is quite helpful.
Is there a preferred method oral or transdermal for NDT?
I also take iodine does that change the equation, as per dose?

 

[whit]

Not before bed.

Dave, why not before bed?

 

[DaveFoster]

Dave, why not before bed?

It's stimulating.

 

[skycop00]

That should only help and remind the importance of elimination as a natural way of removing the unnecessary substances from the body.

However despite the hydroxylation of the estrogens (the part where they are activated), their detox and inactivation is part of the methylation and that takes place in the liver. If there are difficulties on that stage that should affect negatively the estrogen removal and continue to increase estrogens disbalance i think.

That's where I would put my energy...liver Phase I and II efficiency. The Precision Analytical DUTCH urine test actually gives a great picture of methylation and the metabolites...along with cortisol, dhea etc.. I use it with all of clients...Great tool...

 

[whit]

If the liver is putting the methylated estrogens and metabolites into the bile and out with the rest of the waste.
Transitory time is even more crucial during excretion of these products. What's the best protocol beyond carrot salad with vinegar and oil? Or is that enough for most?
We've got to prevent reabsorption.

 

[supernature]

That's where I would put my energy...liver Phase I and II efficiency. The Precision Analytical DUTCH urine test actually gives a great picture of methylation and the metabolites...along with cortisol, dhea etc.. I use it with all of clients...Great tool...

Could you clarify a lit bit more about liver methylation in general and the part with the estrogens detoxing, phase I and II liver methylation, also phase II 2-OH hydroxylation into 2-Methoxy-E1, is that the only way out?
You say the blood samples cant get enough good picture of hormone levels?
Maybe about the connection with estrogens and the thyroid as the thread is about it, maybe the liver as well!?

 

[MyUsernameHere]

T3 makes my nipples burn.

How can I take T3 without getting excess estrogen? I believe I am high estrogen by nature (for a male) as my body tends to store fat in feminine areas. I also can't improve my metabolism whatsoever with thyroid. Perhaps I need to use an aromatase inhibitor concurrently, to break the loop.

 

[Abc123]

Bumping this thread because of the helpful info!

I'm currently having estrogen issues with Armour Thyroid (2.75gr) metabolism has increased and Im thinking T4 and T3 and risen up too much.

 

[DaveFoster]

Ya, every time I supplement thyroid even 1/8th grain within an hour I get a weird sensation in my chest tissue ( numbness or irritation, I cant explain the feeling very well ) and I can observe chest enlargement over a period of a few days. So I don't take it. Thank you very much for the studies, I've been trying to find information about this very subject.

Are you still taking T3-only, tca?

 

[encerent]

Hyperthyroid people have an excess of all hormones.

 

[tca300]

@DaveFoster haha its fun to look back at old posts. Things have been different for a long time since this post. I think my liver was dumping estrogen when I posted this. Nowadays this doesnt happen. I have been experamenting with ndt and t3 back and forth for a long time now, and I prefer t3 only. NDT is too inconsistent with the response. So to answer your question, yes I still take T3 only. I dont need it, but I like the slight hyperthyroid state.

 

[DaveFoster]

@DaveFoster haha its fun to look back at old posts. Things have been different for a long time since this post. I think my liver was dumping estrogen when I posted this. Nowadays this doesnt happen. I have been experamenting with ndt and t3 back and forth for a long time now, and I prefer t3 only. NDT is too inconsistent with the response. So to answer your question, yes I still take T3 only. I dont need it, but I like the slight hyperthyroid state.

It's great that you've been playing around with the combos. Have you find a particular dosing schedule that works for you, or do you just go by feel; also what's your dose?

 

[tca300]

It's great that you've been playing around with the combos. Have you find a particular dosing schedule that works for you, or do you just go by feel; also what's your dose?

Mostly just go by feel, and I never take enough to lower my own production.

 

[Antonello]

thanks to this thread I've realized I've been messing around with thyroid hormones for too much time without improving my underlying condition but actually make it worse.
It doesn't matter how much of t3 t4 ndt I take it will still convert to estrogen anyway.
Unfortunately this forum and Peat ideas on thyroid is not for everyone and then there are also the steroids that they well mask thyroid supplementation damage by been antiestrogen anticortisol antiserotonin anti everything so that it become even hard to understand what is the root cause.
Like some people already mentioned liver health can be the root cause of thyroid imbalance or at list for me it is.

 

[schultz]

yet you don't experience estrogenic effects from aspirin? That's interesting. Aspirin is another supplement which many people experience clear estrogen symptoms from, almost as powerful as thyroid in that regard.

Aspirin Lowers Estrogen Levels / Load / Burden

Not before bed.

It's stimulating.

Here is Ray talking about how good T3 is for getting to sleep.

RAY PEAT: And besides my own experience, when I took thyroid, being able to relax and sleep soundly – on one of my trips, talking to doctors and such, I ran into a doctor who looked horrible, said he hadn’t slept for three nights. And I mentioned my experience with thyroid and gave him 10 mcg of cytomel. And the next night of my talk, he pulled me aside before introducing me and said: “That stuff’s better than morphine!

I believe he has mentioned how thyroid hormone can have a relaxing effect on the body whereas people tend to think of thyroid hormone as being a stimulant.

It doesn't matter how much of t3 t4 ndt I take it will still convert to estrogen anyway.

Are you making the claim that thyroid hormone has the ability to convert to estrogen?

 

[Antonello]

@schultz Are you making the claim that thyroid hormone has the ability to convert to estrogen?[/QUOTE]

Yes it does covert to estrogen. For my little understanding when liver isn’t working properly thyroid is not going to fix metabolism.
Actually the first time I took thyroid it was doing something good but overtime it became too stressful for the body and even a tiny amount was too much.
Without thyroid I’m still hypo but I’m able to keep estrogen under control by working on the liver.

 

[tca300]

@schultz Are you making the claim that thyroid hormone has the ability to convert to estrogen?

Lets pretend Thyroid hormone can directly convert into estrogen. Taking a few Micrograms of thyroid at a 1 to 1 conversion ratio would result in a few extra micrograms of estrogen.... most of the time, liver issues are directly caused by hypothyroidism, so you are basically trying to rebuild a house as its burning down, instead of puting the fire out first.

Best of luck to you.

 

[dookie]

@tca300

You've surely seen the studies showing that hyperthyroidism (with elevated blood T3) results in estrogen up to 15 times higher? It's not that T3 is converting to estrogen, it somehow stimulates estrogen production. Is there even one study showing that increasing the T3 by supplementation doesn't lead to increased estrogen? I haven't been able to find one

Thyroid - hormone effects on steroid - hormone metabolism.

 

[tca300]

@tca300

You've surely seen the studies showing that hyperthyroidism (with elevated blood T3) results in estrogen up to 15 times higher? It's not that T3 is converting to estrogen, it somehow stimulates estrogen production. Is there even one study showing that increasing the T3 by supplementation doesn't lead to increased estrogen? I haven't been able to find one

Thyroid - hormone effects on steroid - hormone metabolism.

I think all steriods would be elevated in hyperthyroidism, but so would the protective ones as well as clearance rate would be higher.

I thought we were talking about correcting hypothyroidism to create a euthyroid state? Pushing the system too high isn't what this discussion is about, nor do I think Ray has ever recommended people try to be hyperthyroid. People here use too much of various things and get bad results because of ignorance. Going slow with little amounts constantly checking pulse and temps over weeks/months and gradually increasing the dose ( if needed ) is what Ray has consistently recommended for the majority.

And that is all under the condition that the individual is actually hypothyroid. Many think they are and actually aren't. Using bloodwork in conjunction with pulse/temps is needed to be sure.

P.s Anytime energy needs are increased without sufficient energy being provided, stress hormones go up. No way to avoid this.

 

[DaveFoster]

Aspirin Lowers Estrogen Levels / Load / Burden




Here is Ray talking about how good T3 is for getting to sleep.

RAY PEAT: And besides my own experience, when I took thyroid, being able to relax and sleep soundly – on one of my trips, talking to doctors and such, I ran into a doctor who looked horrible, said he hadn’t slept for three nights. And I mentioned my experience with thyroid and gave him 10 mcg of cytomel. And the next night of my talk, he pulled me aside before introducing me and said: “That stuff’s better than morphine!

I believe he has mentioned how thyroid hormone can have a relaxing effect on the body whereas people tend to think of thyroid hormone as being a stimulant.




Are you making the claim that thyroid hormone has the ability to convert to estrogen?

I was (unknowingly) responding to increased adrenaline from thyroid, so if one's had chance to acclimate, then it can be relaxing.