Do muscle cells really produce testosterone?

[TruffleGnocchi]

I've heard Ray say that in physical inactivity, the muscle cells produce estrogen, or produce aromataze I cant remember exactly, and that with physically active, the muscles are a good source of testosterone? I can't find the video where he talks about this now.
Does anyone know of a research paper or any literature that mentions muscle cells producing testosterone? I can't find any.

 

[Peater]

I thought fat 'produced' estrogen. It ties in with PUFA/increased fat etc.

 

[Peatress]

I think it's this one - It doesn't have a time stamp


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f50Lh82CM7c

May not be relevant but an interesting read

Evidence for a Non-Genomic Action of Testosterone in Skeletal Muscle Which may Improve Athletic Performance: Implications for the Female Athlete

This review will focus on the proposed second mode of testosterone action (now termed non-genomic) that appears to occur independently of the traditional transcriptional mechanism in mammalian skeletal muscle cells which may enhance skeletal muscle contractile ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Abstract​

This review will focus on the proposed second mode of testosterone action (now termed non-genomic) that appears to occur independently of the traditional transcriptional mechanism in mammalian skeletal muscle cells which may enhance skeletal muscle contractile properties. This mechanism of testosterone action differs from the traditional pathway, originating at the cell membrane, having a rapid onset of action, requiring second messengers to execute its effects and is insensitive to inhibitors of traditional androgen receptor action, transcription and protein synthesis. Importantly, unlike the traditional action of testosterone in skeletal muscle, this non-genomic pathway is shown to have a direct acute effect on calcium-dependent components important for the contractile process. The changes within the contractile apparatus may enhance the ability of the muscle to produce explosive power during athletic performance. Rapid increases in Inositol triphosphate mass and calcium release from the sarcoplasmic reticulum have been reported in rodent skeletal muscle cells, and a rapid androgen (dihydrotestosterone)-induced increase in peak force production has been recorded in intact rodent skeletal muscle fibre bundles while showing increases in the activity of the Ras/MAP/ERK mediated pathway. Because the non-genomic action of testosterone is enhanced during increases in exposure to testosterone and is acute in its action, implications for athletic performance are likely greater in females than males due to natural fluctuations in circulating testosterone levels during the female menstrual cycle, reproductive pathology, and changes induced by hormonal contraceptive methods. Research should be undertaken in humans to confirm a pathway for non-genomic testosterone action in human skeletal muscle. Specifically, relationships between testosterone fluctuations and physiological changes within skeletal muscle cells and whole muscle exercise performance need to be examined.

 

[Mauritio]

"Recent studies have shown that sex steroidogenesis-related mRNA and protein
expressions, such as for 17--hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (HSD), 3--HSD, 5-reductase and aromatase cytochrome P-450 (P450arom) enzymes, are detected in the skeletal muscle, while testosterone, estradiol, and 5-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) were locally synthesized in skeletal muscle from dehy-
droepiandrosterone (DHEA). Moreover, in animal and human studies, the sex steroidogenesis enzymes and sex steroid hormone levels in skeletal muscle are upregulated by acute and chronic exercise stimulation."

- https://www.researchgate.net/figure...le-steroidogenesis-potentially_fig1_261407289

 

[Mauritio]

'Recently, in our study, 12-week progressive resistance training appeared to increase or partially reverse the age-associated reduc-
tion in muscle sex steroid hormone levels and muscle steroidogenic enzyme protein expression in men [6].Although protein expression
of steroidogenic enzymes such as 3-
-HSD, 17-HSD, 5-reductase,
and androgen receptor protein expressions in muscle were significantly lower in older men compared to younger counterparts at
baseline, 12 weeks of resistance training significantly increased the levels of these enzymes, and restored both serum and muscle levels of DHEA, free testosterone, and DHT to levels seen in youngsubjects."

 

[TruffleGnocchi]

"Recent studies have shown that sex steroidogenesis-related mRNA and protein
expressions, such as for 17--hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (HSD), 3--HSD, 5-reductase and aromatase cytochrome P-450 (P450arom) enzymes, are detected in the skeletal muscle, while testosterone, estradiol, and 5-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) were locally synthesized in skeletal muscle from dehy-
droepiandrosterone (DHEA). Moreover, in animal and human studies, the sex steroidogenesis enzymes and sex steroid hormone levels in skeletal muscle are upregulated by acute and chronic exercise stimulation."View attachment 52412
- https://www.researchgate.net/figure...le-steroidogenesis-potentially_fig1_261407289

That's very interesting. I often think about why muscle mass is so effective in increasing lifespan. Seems like there really might be more too it than just less frailty and glucose disposal ability. Muscle cells also dont get cancer.

@Peatress thanks, I will try to find where he says it exactly

 

[TruffleGnocchi]

I thought fat 'produced' estrogen. It ties in with PUFA/increased fat etc.

That is the general consensus I hear, that aromatase gets produces in fat cells mainly. Now I see this wikipedia article mentions it is created in other tissues as well, so it probably is true Aromatase - Wikipedia
Maybe fat cells are still the predominant source, I don't know

 

[Peatress]

I thought fat 'produced' estrogen. It ties in with PUFA/increased fat etc.

Perhaps that's why vitamin E helps muscle growth - it opposes estrogen.

Vitamin E in Sarcopenia: Current Evidences on Its Role in Prevention and Treatment

Sarcopenia is a geriatric syndrome that is characterized by gradual loss of muscle mass and strength with increasing age. Although the underlying mechanism is still unknown, the contribution of increased oxidative stress in advanced age has been recognized ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[TruffleGnocchi]

I think it's this one - It doesn't have a time stamp


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f50Lh82CM7c

May not be relevant but an interesting read

Evidence for a Non-Genomic Action of Testosterone in Skeletal Muscle Which may Improve Athletic Performance: Implications for the Female Athlete

This review will focus on the proposed second mode of testosterone action (now termed non-genomic) that appears to occur independently of the traditional transcriptional mechanism in mammalian skeletal muscle cells which may enhance skeletal muscle contractile ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Abstract​

This review will focus on the proposed second mode of testosterone action (now termed non-genomic) that appears to occur independently of the traditional transcriptional mechanism in mammalian skeletal muscle cells which may enhance skeletal muscle contractile properties. This mechanism of testosterone action differs from the traditional pathway, originating at the cell membrane, having a rapid onset of action, requiring second messengers to execute its effects and is insensitive to inhibitors of traditional androgen receptor action, transcription and protein synthesis. Importantly, unlike the traditional action of testosterone in skeletal muscle, this non-genomic pathway is shown to have a direct acute effect on calcium-dependent components important for the contractile process. The changes within the contractile apparatus may enhance the ability of the muscle to produce explosive power during athletic performance. Rapid increases in Inositol triphosphate mass and calcium release from the sarcoplasmic reticulum have been reported in rodent skeletal muscle cells, and a rapid androgen (dihydrotestosterone)-induced increase in peak force production has been recorded in intact rodent skeletal muscle fibre bundles while showing increases in the activity of the Ras/MAP/ERK mediated pathway. Because the non-genomic action of testosterone is enhanced during increases in exposure to testosterone and is acute in its action, implications for athletic performance are likely greater in females than males due to natural fluctuations in circulating testosterone levels during the female menstrual cycle, reproductive pathology, and changes induced by hormonal contraceptive methods. Research should be undertaken in humans to confirm a pathway for non-genomic testosterone action in human skeletal muscle. Specifically, relationships between testosterone fluctuations and physiological changes within skeletal muscle cells and whole muscle exercise performance need to be examined.

Bodybuilders generally want testosterone or dihydrotestosterone derivatives that have high anabolism with as low androgenic effect as possible, the bigger anabolic/androgenic ratio the better I think, so they can take as much as possible without side-effects being too much from androgenic effects, and be as anabolic as possible. Powerlifters and athletes that need strength to win, they need the androgenic effect and take different steroids than bodybuilders I think. I'm not sure if androgenic effect translates to this proposed non-genomic action. I heard before that testosterone increases the signal strength sent to the muscles, so people that take steroids, they will get stronger immediately, even though there was no time for them to grow bigger muscles.
Some literature says Chimpanzees have stronger signal to their muscle which makes them stronger than humans, for the amount of muscle mass they have. Critics of this say they just have more fast twitch muscle fibers compared to humans, making them stronger but less precise in their movement.

 

[Peatress]

Bodybuilders generally want testosterone or dihydrotestosterone derivatives that have high anabolism with as low androgenic effect as possible, the bigger anabolic/androgenic ratio the better I think, so they can take as much as possible without side-effects being too much from androgenic effects, and be as anabolic as possible. Powerlifters and athletes that need strength to win, they need the androgenic effect and take different steroids than bodybuilders I think. I'm not sure if androgenic effect translates to this proposed non-genomic action. I heard before that testosterone increases the signal strength sent to the muscles, so people that take steroids, they will get stronger immediately, even though there was no time for them to grow bigger muscles.
Some literature says Chimpanzees have stronger signal to their muscle which makes them stronger than humans, for the amount of muscle mass they have. Critics of this say they just have more fast twitch muscle fibers compared to humans, making them stronger but less precise in their movement.

This is beyond my understanding but it may explain your question on androgens

Non-genomic Actions of Androgens

Previous work in the endocrine and neuroendocrine fields has viewed androgen receptors (AR) as a transcription factor activated by testosterone or one of its many metabolites. The bound androgen receptor acts as transcription factor and binds to specific ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Alex Jaramillo]

Effect of Exercise on Serum Sex Hormones in Men: A 12-Month Randomized Clinical Trial

The effect of exercise on androgens in middle-aged to older men is poorly understood, and it could have implications for several aspects of health. This analysis was conducted to examine the effects of long-term aerobic exercise on serum sex hormones ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Responses of sex steroid hormones to different intensities of exercise in endurance athletes - PubMed

Previous studies have shown that acute exercise elevates sex steroid hormone concentrations in rodents and that sprint exercise increases circulating testosterone in healthy young men. However, the effect of different exercise intensities on sex steroid hormone responses at different levels of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[TruffleGnocchi]

This is beyond my understanding but it may explain your question on androgens

Non-genomic Actions of Androgens

Previous work in the endocrine and neuroendocrine fields has viewed androgen receptors (AR) as a transcription factor activated by testosterone or one of its many metabolites. The bound androgen receptor acts as transcription factor and binds to specific ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I'm no expert either, I just say things I hear without checking facts, so don't quote me. Someone with real knowledge correct me if I say something wrong.
Thanks for the links @Peatress @Alex Jaramillo

 

[David PS]

I am still playing with peatbot.com It frequently provides additional information.

DISCLAIMER: You are not talking to a human. You are talking with a robot. The robot is frequently wrong on even basic medical issues. By using this website you realize and take full responsibility for your actions. Nothing here is intended as medical advice. If you sue me for any reason, you accept an unremovable curse upon yourself and your bloodline.

User: do muscle cells produce testosterone

Peatbot: Yes, muscle cells have the ability to produce testosterone. When muscles are well-exercised and strong, they can secrete testosterone. This is because muscle tissue, through the action of thyroid hormones, can metabolize steroid hormones and convert them into testosterone. In contrast, resting or stressed muscle, without adequate stimulation from good food and thyroid hormones, tends to produce estrogen instead of testosterone. So, the production of testosterone by muscle cells is influenced by factors such as exercise, nutrition, and hormonal balance.