Covid-19 Causing Irreversible Lung Fibrosis

[opson123]

Isn't it depressing to talk and think about stuff like this? Politics and money are things I have absolutely zero interest in. I find it baffling you guys can be so absorbed in discussion about these topics. Good for you though, passion is the genesis of genius!

 

[Peater Piper]

Over here seasonal flu has an infinitely higher mortality because no-one has died of covid19.

Where's "here"?

 

[InChristAlone]

Hey, model.

Most people find tremendous relief while on antibiotics, often the times subsiding after the course. We may be tempted to attribute the effect to something else other than killing microbes, but then person tries another class of antibiotics with different properties and the relief is similar. If infections was maintaining a function that's compromised with the trade-offs ending up advantageous for the host, why would there be relief?

Had to edit out the last part because it was too creepy for someone that doesn't poop.

Amazon River Rafter photographer,

Antibiotics do destroy the cell wall. Symptoms go away (and new different ones might pop up like diarrhea and candidiasis or the terribly hard to treat C.Diff), but the bacteria can survive this cell wall death and morph into something else. Also then they go undetected by the immune system.

 

[achillea]

@sugarbabe

Dr Lanka is a fellow German, I’ve loosely followed a court-case where he was involved some years ago because it was in the MSM. I think he is a dangerous quack, at least where his statements about viral diseases are converted

The Court found:

the essential points. According to the minutes of the court proceedings (page 7/ first paragraph), Andreas Podbielski, head of the Department of Medical Microbiology, Virology and Hygiene at the University Hospital in Rostock, who was one of the appointed experts at the trial, stated that even though the existence of the measles virus could be concluded from the summary of the six papers submitted by Dr. Bardens, none of the authors had conducted any controlled experiments in accordance with internationally defined rules and principles of good scientific practice (see also the method of “indirect evidence”). Professor Podbielski considers this lack of control experiments explicitly as a “methodological weakness” of these publications, which are after all the relevant studies on the subject (there are no other publications trying to attempt to prove the existence of the “measles virus”). Thus, at this point, a publication about the existence of the measles virus that stands the test of good science has yet to be delivered. Furthermore, at the trial it was noted that contrary to its legal remit as per § 4 Infection Protection Act (IfSG) the Robert Koch Institute (RKI), the highest German authority in the field of infectious diseases, has failed to perform tests for the alleged measles virus and to publish these. The RKI claims that it made internal studies on the measles virus, however, refuses to hand over or publish the results.

Where is your proof otherwise please

 

[InChristAlone]

I'm not aiming to get at you personally, so sorry if I came across that way.
I agree with you on many other things, and think you contribute lots of good things to the forum, whether or not I share all your ideas.
I am arguing about some of the points you are making in this thread on this issue.
That line about something or other is 'just a theory' is one used by others in other contexts to justify faith-based beliefs that fly in the face of science. By people promoting flat earth nonsense and trying to exclude science from schools, for instance. To me it doesn't seem like any kind of argument or evidence against the validity of a theory. I was surprised that you'd use a line like that.

I'm not sure why you consider this the criteria for germs. I don't know if this is a view held by any scientists in the field. I don't see where the contradiction would be in having infectious agents like viruses and bacteria ('germs'), and some people but not everybody getting sick when exposed to them.

I'd prefer to distinguish hysteria/panic from curiosity and preparedness. Wanting to talk about the risks and ways to address them doesn't mean everyone is hysterical.
I personally never find it calming when people try claim that there is no problem in the face of obvious evidence. Maybe US news media are more prone to extremes and hype than where I am, and that is affecting our differing views.
COVID is unlikely to be the end of the human race, or to decimate the population, or to destroy civilisation. But it is already killing thousands of people, and likely to be many more. If we can't face and discuss this one, how will we realistically face and navigate more serious threats to come?

Your points about the terrain being important, and that there are things we can sometimes do to improve that, make sense to me.
I would be very pleased to see more effective research done and published about how to do this well.

Neither Bernard nor Beauchamp nor Peat denied that viruses exist and cause trouble. Until everyone in the world has a way to optimise their terrain, many people will be susceptible to viruses and bacteria. There's a lot we don't know yet about that, and a lot that is very difficult to do even when we understand it because pollution is becoming so ubiquitous, and society is largely organised on other priorities than the health of people and environment.
Even if we were all doing everything right, pathogens can and do evolve.

Theory is defined by "a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained". No where in that definition says a theory is a fact. The two are on different sides of the spectrum. Gravity has nothing to do with biology. Which is why it was a red herring and detracted from the discussion. People can believe in the flat earth theory if they so choose, doesn't make it a fact, but that's why the word "theory" comes after flat earth. "Flat Earth Theory". "Germ Theory". There's also "evolutionary Theory". You can accept evolution as a fact but it is not a fact, it is a theory. I personally hated how in my classes evolution is taught as factual, doesn't mean we shouldn't be exposed to the ideas, but we need to keep an open mind about our distant past.

Science has few facts and many many many conclusions and theories. People argue whether the heart is a pump for instance, science hasn't proven one way or another, but we generally understand what the heart does. We can have an understanding on something without being dogmatic about it. New information could lead us in a new direction. Life is not as black and white as people want it to be. We want to believe that we can identify the pathogen causing our illness, kill the pathogen and then we can go on being healthy again. Or that just taking an injection of a weakened pathogen will protect us from future infection. It is not so black and white. If people don't address why they are getting sick, they will continue to get sick and need more and more medical care.

Taking antibiotics for a tooth infection seems to stop some of the intense throbbing pain, but it is not even clearing out the infection in the tooth. The abscess will continue to get worse. When I had a breast abscess from a clogged milk duct I got a very high fever. The body HATES blockages and stagnation, had I gotten out the clog the infection would have cleared. I couldn't get out the clog so my body was trying to wall off the resulting stagnant infected milk which caused an inflamed hard lump. I was put on antibiotics which stopped the fever but not the infection. I eventually had to get the abscess drained, antibiotics could not have cured me. Once the blockage is cleared the body naturally heals. Looking back the antibiotics caused more harm than they cured. I was on them for a month while breastfeeding a small baby. My child has Asperger like issues. It really makes you wonder what causes someone to be so fearful, if their microbiome was so disrupted that they cannot regulate in society. Also certain microbes protect us from heavy metals so if you destroy their cell walls... what are the long term effects of that? Has science ever studied this? Lead poisoning seems to cause a lot of the same symptoms as Autism. Mercury might as well... both are known to really harm brain function.

I don't believe we 'catch disease', I believe it is created in our body. It is not a sick person's fault, but they could learn how to create healthy conditions in their body. Germs do not cause disease, disease causes germs.

Béchamp said, “Disease is born of us and in us.”

You could think of it like this; Mosquitoes seek the stagnant water, but don’t cause the pool to become stagnant. Its the same way with germs.

“Germs seek their natural habitat – diseased tissue – rather than being the cause of diseased tissue.” -Antoine Béchamp


It is more important to know what sort of person has a disease than to know what sort of disease a person has.
-Hippocrates



“If I could live my life over again, I’d devote it to proving that germs seek their natural habitat, diseased tissue, rather than being the cause of diseased tissue.” -Dr. Rudolph Virchow, renowned scientist, considered the ‘Father of Pathology’

“If the germ theory were founded on facts, there would be no living being to read what’s written.”
Dr. George White

“Bacteria and parasites cannot cause disease processes unless they find their own peculiar morbid soil in which to grow and multiply.” -Henry Lindlahr, MD

The description of the disease seems to change according to the drug that’s being marketed.
-Ray Peat, PhD

 

[InChristAlone]

To clarify some things as I know many think anti-vaxxers and anti-germ theory people are quacks... HYGIENE IS STILL IMPORTANT. I believe the true cause of the low incidence of sepsis and infectious disease in America is the invention of sewers and sanitation and CLEAN water. That doesn't mean we need to buy up all the hand sanitizer and spray lysol on every surface and wear masks every where we go! We cannot live in a bubble. I mean I guess you could try but it would be a miserable experience! I have to admit though... I am kinda germy, I don't wash my hands as much as I should. And guess what??? Haven't been sick at all this winter. No infections either. Because I do believe in cleaning out wounds. Stagnation can be deadly.

 

[Summer]

This isn’t Doom. This is awareness of a little flu virus being scaled/scape goated to pop a very big debt bubble. The way it is scape goated means and they’re shutting down events across all boards so people don’t lose trust in the system.

Mnuchin-Sec Treasury>Goldman-sued asset stripping sears
Wilbur Ross
Betsy devos

Trumps cabnient makes Bush 2s look like a bolshvicks workers council.

The reason these establishment bureaucrats like Brennan and comey hated him soon much is him and his team are like a small army of financial oligarchs who could risk giving the whole system up.

Corona virus-> JP and Goldman trash their derivative books the show begins.

I’m saying there are very serious liquidity problems.

your not gonna have to use your gun. Just your gonna see a lot of Hong Kong/yellow vest/pension reform type protests. Mabey a bit worse as a most Americans are quit dumb down and heavily armed.

I’ll make another hero call and say that tax season will be delayed, that’s what Mnuchin wants. They probably fear a tax strike. I bet most peoples equity accounts are down 40-50% by April. By then the FED will come in and buy.

For positioning your gonna want as much cash as possible and hopefully your not too levereded up, 2-3 income streams are ideal. Gold is gonna get dumped at first then it will pump. Shoulda bought around $1200. Don’t sell portfolio now. Real estate is location dependent no advice there

going forward...
ZIRP interest rate. Will be shocked if they do a full point next week, ***t will be worse than I thought. Or it could be a rolling recession of 6-9 months. Which will be a .5 cut
Big QE program
Airlines defiantly bailed out
Banks will agian
Cruise lines,

If you think banning travel to Europe for 30 days is normal we could be along for a bumpy **** ride.

Yikes. Thanks for the explanation. I hope it doesn’t come to all that but it’s better to be safe than sorry. I’ll heed your advice.

 

[catan]

I’ve been following this with great interest. When I express skepticism on whether the virus is real, people respond well people are dying, lots of people are getting infected, and this is spreading rapidly as schools are closing, even famous people are getting it etc. but so far I don’t know anybody who knows anybody who is sick. So hard for me to conceive of this as a real threat (besides to the economy...)

So my questions, and sorry they’re so basic and if they’ve been discussed before— what are people dying from outside of China? How are they confirming cases? China I can understand due to the horrible air pollution and food and 5G.

 

[InChristAlone]

I’ve been following this with great interest. When I express skepticism on whether the virus is real, people respond well people are dying, lots of people are getting infected, and this is spreading rapidly as schools are closing, even famous people are getting it etc. but so far I don’t know anybody who knows anybody who is sick. So hard for me to conceive of this as a real threat (besides to the economy...)

So my questions, and sorry they’re so basic and if they’ve been discussed before— what are people dying from outside of China? How are they confirming cases? China I can understand due to the horrible air pollution and food and 5G.

They can't possibly confirm every case. Rapid tests test for antibodies. Which mean nothing. We use antibody tests to prove protection not infection. The presence of a virus doesn't prove causation.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

They can't possibly confirm every case. Rapid tests test for antibodies. Which mean nothing. We use antibody tests to prove protection not infection. The presence of a virus doesn't prove causation.

Northern Italy, one of the most developed parts of Europe and the World with very good healthcare sees a lot of dead.
From what are theses people dying? Any suggestion from your part? There is no 5G and no extraordinary pollution. It’s a region close to the alps and two seas, industry is modern, food is excellent

EDIT:
Wait, Population old, Polution a factor after all

Why Is the Coronavirus Outbreak So Bad in Italy?

 

[tankasnowgod]

Northern Italy, one of the most developed parts of Europe and the World with very good healthcare sees a lot of dead.
From what are theses people dying? Any suggestion from your part?

The official number dead, so far, is 1,016 total, in a country of 60 million. That's roughly 20% the size of the US, and over 7,500 people die in the US every day from all causes. Assuming the same rate in Italy, that is just less than the amount you would expect to die every day in that country, anyway. Spread over the greater part of a month? It's minimal.

As you pointed out afterwards, there are pollution issues and many elderly in Italy as well.

 

[LLight]

Amazon River Rafter photographer,

Antibiotics do destroy the cell wall. Symptoms go away (and new different ones might pop up like diarrhea and candidiasis or the terribly hard to treat C.Diff), but the bacteria can survive this cell wall death and morph into something else. Also then they go undetected by the immune system.

The human body produces antibacterial substances that attack bacteria cell walls too.

We don't know how the body fight cell wall-deficient bacteria but honestly, I think this is just we don't know rather that it doesn't exist. Why would the body could not? It's not like this form of life has super powers and the body is encountering it only since antibiotics have been "invented".

 

[LLight]

There is no 5G

Last time I checked, yes they are testing 5G in northern Italy. Don't know how developed this is.

 

[InChristAlone]

The human body produces antibacterial substances that attack bacteria cell walls too.

We don't know how the body fight cell wall-deficient bacteria but honestly, I think this is just we don't know rather that it doesn't exist. Why would the body could not? It's not like this form of life has super powers and the body is encountering it since just antibiotics have been "invented".

Yeah because the body is intelligent thus you can live in a germ filled world and not die til very old age. But in the two examples I gave where there is a pocket of stagnation or entryway for outside bacteria to enter in our jaw bone which lacks very much blood flow then the bacteria are able to grow.

If pasteurization was so great then why do people thrive on raw milk? Should we also boil our breastmilk before giving it to our babies? There are for sure bacteria in there. Raw milk can sit out and not kill someone even. Let a bottle of boiled milk sit out and it rots.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Not sure why you proles are arguing about some silly biological weapon, used to mask the biggest debt bubble pop in human history.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

W

 

[LLight]

If pasteurization was so great then why do people thrive on raw milk? Should we also boil our breastmilk before giving it to our babies? There are for sure bacteria in there. Raw milk can sit out and not kill someone even. Let a bottle of boiled milk sit out and it rots.

Maybe there are natural antibacterial substances in milk. Or it is populated by helpful bacteria only.

Imagine a situation during which you live a very stressful event, you are quite malnourished at the same time and you've got no time to heal and have to go to work nonetheless.

Your immune system is probably depressed and "bad" bacteria are able to populate your body because of that and hijack your immune system (living in immune cells such as macrophages), impairing its efficiency and allowing more issues to build over time.

In this case (feel free to point what is not possible regarding this situation), pathogens are at least partly causal.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

View attachment 16961

Not sure why you proles are arguing about some silly biological weapon, used to mask the biggest debt bubble pop in human history.

Those who own property and have ample cash will have a feast. Don't they always?

 

[InChristAlone]

Maybe there are natural antibacterial substances in milk. Or it is populated by helpful bacteria only.

Imagine a situation during which you live a very stressful event, you are quite malnourished at the same time and you've got no time to heal and have to go to work nonetheless.

Your immune system is probably depressed and "bad" bacteria are able to populate your body because of that and hijack your immune system (living in immune cells such as macrophages), impairing its efficiency and allowing more issues to build over time.

In this case (feel free to point what is not possible regarding this situation), pathogens are at least partly causal.

Yes actually I do believe this has happened to me in the past. Chronically stressed and depleted not doing any self care not sleeping well, I would get fevers every so often during this. My immune system would get to work because there was a lot to be done! The fevers were a good sign though. I never tried to lower them and then I would be better in a couple days. Contrast this to modern medicine- promote tylenol and fever reducers and then end up in the ER with pneumonia or RSV in the case of children. Colds last days and days when you don't get a fever or if you try to push through. Getting sick in bed with a fever is sometimes just a sign someone needed to take a day off. Not that they are going to die of some deadly virus. I think taking a bunch of crap trying to push down the immune system can really bite people in the butt.

 

[Giraffe]

Sorry for this long-ish post.

So my questions, and sorry they’re so basic and if they’ve been discussed before— what are people dying from outside of China?

I think the reasons are multifactoral. In the regions with the most "corona deaths" the air pollution is through the roof, and the air pollutions gets worse in certain weather conditions. The air pollution in itself is a pathogen, but (as any stress) it also makes people more vulnerable for bacterial infection etc. When people go to hospital because of breathing problems, and if the corona virus is found, they are given drugs with severe adverse effects. The vast majority of those who die are elderly and people with pre-existing health issues. You can bet that these people (at least those in the west) are on half a dozen pharmaceutical drugs already. So the physicians give toxic drugs to people who's livers are already struggling to get rid of all the other drugs. And at some point it becomes impossible to predict interactions between drugs.

I know that in Iran (as in China) many people are deficient in vitamin D and A. In Iran malnourishment in general is a problem. In some of the most affected areas people are living in very crowded conditions.

If the health care system is inadequate to begin with, it easily breaks down when an unusual number of patients comes at the same time. People with chronic diseases need to get hospitalized very often. For them the hospital can be a life-safer in an acute situation. They don't get healed, but they may live a couple of months or years longer. But if there is a shortage of ICU beds, doctors will (need to) be more inclined to decide, that a patient has a bad prognosis, and he will probably not benefit from treatment. Which means that he is not getting a bed in the ICU at all.

Another factor - I think - is that the whole thing is overhyped. Old people die eventually, as do sick people. Every day people die everywhere. I would like to see statistics with the normal (expected) number of deaths compared to the mortality now. If the corona virus was so deadly we would expect to see a huge surplus. I am sure that this surplus is much, much smaller than we are made to believe, and over the course of a year or two this surplus is probably zero.

Hospitals are under extreme pressure to operate economically. They reduce beds, they reduce staff, source out the laboratory... Healthcare workers work overtime to cope with the situation. Most hospitals operate at the limit (and beyond) all the time. When there are more sick people than usually (or the healthcare workers are sick or in quarantine) they can't cope any longer. This is what we hear now: The hospitals in the most affected regions can't cope, unfortunately we do not hear that they do not have sufficient recources for their usual business either.