Could Zinc be the cause of arthritis and cartilage destruction ?

[GorillaHead]

I wanted to bring this topic up as I feel like understanding this could be vital in understanding a variety of other common issues.

Last year I started dabbling in high dose zinc. The immediate effects were more acne but then things cleared and my energy and skin were better then ever.
Now of course I was taking copper but only like 1 to 2mg a day. While my zinc dosage was 50mg a day.

About 1 month into this regimen I experienced SEVERE joint pain. I mean literally I started feeling this pain coming on 1 hour after supplementation. It got to the point I couldn’t even put weight on my wrist and do a push-up. So of course I stopped.

It was almost exactly the same symptom I experienced when I took an aromatase inhibitor years ago.

I honestly didn’t expect this to be a side effect of too much Zinc. Then I found another user on this very forum with the exact same experience and he said the pain went away after ceasing supplementation for months.

Today I can say my experience mirrors his 100 percent. I did more research and it wasn’t hard to find that researchers discovered that too much zinc would be transported to the cartilage in joints and destroy it. This is terrifying. Cartilage is not quick to recovery or easily for that matter.

Is zinc the missing link for osteoarthritis therapies?

they blame zip8 transporting zinc into the cartilage.

why does this happen? Does this mean that no matter how much copper I consumed i would’ve still experienced this issue. Its known that aromatse inhibitors cause joint pain. Perhaps zinc in cartilage inhibits aromatase and thus we get the same experience.

anyone with similar experience and ideas they want to put forward. ?

 

[ecstatichamster]

I think supplementing zinc is dangerous. A dangerous fad. I suggest getting zinc and copper from liver and seafood.

 

[Gustav3Y]

About 1 month into this regimen I experienced SEVERE joint pain. I mean literally I started feeling this pain coming on 1 hour after supplementation. It got to the point I couldn’t even put weight on my wrist and do a push-up. So of course I stopped.

This happens to me with any Zinc dose that is not a tiny one. Problem is I also some chronic issues in certain joint areas (like neck and shoulder) and that Zinc makes things worse to the point of migraine.
Took copper also but it doesn't really seem to mitigate the issues from Zinc.

I must say I wish I could take the 100mg+ that some say they take daily and their life is greatly improved from Zinc, it seems so simple and effective for some.

 

[GorillaHead]

This happens to me with any Zinc dose that is not a tiny one. Problem is I also some chronic issues in certain joint areas (like neck and shoulder) and that Zinc makes things worse to the point of migraine.
Took copper also but it doesn't really seem to mitigate the issues from Zinc.

I must say I wish I could take the 100mg+ that some say they take daily and their life is greatly improved from Zinc, it seems so simple and effective for some.

It’s weird how some people have no issues but others do. This is something I am really curious about this might come down to how people regulate copper and zinc in their bodies

 

[Nomane Euger]

It’s weird how some people have no issues but others do. This is something I am really curious about this might come down to how people regulate copper and zinc in their bodies

the moment of my life were everything started to deteriorate from my brain to my joins,severe joints weakness and pain while doing exercice,i was eating a bunch of hamburger full of zinc from the beef,and nearly 0 copper sources,this summer i started eating lamb liver,my joints sttrenghtened hugely

 

[Perry Staltic]

I wouldn't call 50 mg/day high dose. That's only 25% above upper limit (40 mg), and it was for only one month. 2 mg Cu should be plenty for that dose Zn. What form of Zn were you using? Not all zinc in supplements is absorbed and some forms are more absorbable than others, so I doubt you were even getting 50mg zinc. Were you getting enough selenium? Selenium is necessary to release zinc from its transporter protien and make it bioavailable.

There are 14 ZIP zinc transporters, and that study found a correlation involving ZIP8. Maybe it had something to do with ZIP8 and/or the way they did their research with genetically modified knockout mice rather than with zinc.

 

[redsun]

It’s weird how some people have no issues but others do. This is something I am really curious about this might come down to how people regulate copper and zinc in their bodies

People who were chronically zinc deficient or borderline will get massive improvements in well-being when taking a lot of zinc even if they are depleting copper. They tend to have a lot of copper as is.

Problem with your dose is it really doesnt matter if you took copper or not, 40-50mg of zinc a day is too high because thats when MT gets high enough where it will start to sequester most of the copper you take in instead of absorbing it. If you took 50mg and say you had 10mg from food or something, your MT in the gut is so high you will barely get any copper in.

If one does very high doses of zinc it should only be done for a very short time then lowered. Most people dont need that much zinc unless they are shown deficient via blood test. You probably had lowish zinc thats why it initially improved energy and skin but you lowered copper too much because you couldnt absorb any.

Zinc at around 30mg total intake is generally safe long term and will allow you to still absorb copper from your food. If you need to replete copper imo the best foods are potatoes, tropical fruits high in copper, dark chocolate, small amounts of liver.

 

[Gustav3Y]

More than one form tested, selenium taken.
For me I do not need to take it for months, or years, the effects are always the same and they are very obvious.

 

[GorillaHead]

More than one form tested, selenium taken.
For me I do not need to take it for months, or years, the effects are always the same and they are very obvious.

Same experience tested two forms. Same results as well.

 

[SamuraiJack]

I wouldn't call 50 mg/day high dose. That's only 25% above upper limit (40 mg), and it was for only one month. 2 mg Cu should be plenty for that dose Zn. What form of Zn were you using? Not all zinc in supplements is absorbed and some forms are more absorbable than others, so I doubt you were even getting 50mg zinc. Were you getting enough selenium? Selenium is necessary to release zinc from its transporter protien and make it bioavailable.

There are 14 ZIP zinc transporters, and that study found a correlation involving ZIP8. Maybe it had something to do with ZIP8 and/or the way they did their research with genetically modified knockout mice rather than with zinc.

You're basing it off guidelines, which doesn't mean much anyway.
50mg might not be much for one, but a ***t ton for another.
I took about the same amount of zn picolinate a couple years back and it wrecked me very fast. Copper alone was the only remedy.

 

[ilhanxx]

I supplement 120mg dose of zinc pıcolınate about two weeks, First days I experienced severe joint pains, cracking sounds and headache. But now my chronic extremity sounds completely gone. My hands are warmer. palms are red and smooth. I will continue more two weeks.

 

[Perry Staltic]

You're basing it off guidelines, which doesn't mean much anyway.
50mg might not be much for one, but a ***t ton for another.
I took about the same amount of zn picolinate a couple years back and it wrecked me very fast. Copper alone was the only remedy.

That's a good point I need to keep in mind.

 

[SamuraiJack]

Another point I'd like to mention, I've been doing a lot of research on manganese, and this vital mineral is also linked with zn, cu and iron.
Take too much of these and Mn will be antagonised. I was surprised to find out magnesium can also deplete it. Mn is vital for connective tissues, tendons, joints etc and for sugar, cholesterol metabolism.
Interestingly it's vital for calcium metabolism/bone health and bones won't grow properly without it, leading to deformed/delayed growth, shorter stature and osteoporosis.
I've taken a lot of zinc/copper in the past and have been affected in this regard. Do feel better on the manganese.
Give some mn chelate a try for all you having issues I want to know if you improve or not.
Also it could most likely be driving estrogen tooo low. Try a can of chickpeas to bring it up.

 

[MyUsernameHere]

My main problem with taking zinc is that it heightens my anxiety even at doses of 15 mg daily. Why would that happen? Taking copper alongside mitigates it somewhat, but not fully.

 

[Perry Staltic]

My main problem with taking zinc is that it heightens my anxiety even at doses of 15 mg daily. Why would that happen? Taking copper alongside mitigates it somewhat, but not fully.

Are you getting enough magnesium? Calcium? Also, what form of Zn do you use? Picolinate?

 

[SamuraiJack]

My main problem with taking zinc is that it heightens my anxiety even at doses of 15 mg daily. Why would that happen? Taking copper alongside mitigates it somewhat, but not fully.

Try using half that amount and take with magnesium. Perry is correct in mentioning mg and cal. Zinc can displace those two minerals too. This is why zinc is a dangerous one to supplement if you don't know the interactions.
I had major issues with picolinate.

 

[redsun]

My main problem with taking zinc is that it heightens my anxiety even at doses of 15 mg daily. Why would that happen? Taking copper alongside mitigates it somewhat, but not fully.

Its a negative allosteric modulator of the GABA-A receptor. Copper may reduce this inhibitory effect somewhat. You need also make sure you get plenty of salt. Also generally, daily intake of zinc should not exceed 30mg total from food and supplements. The more you take the more it may lower GABA-A effect. Sometimes its good depending on the person, as too high GABA will cause chronic fatigue so things that lower gaba are often a good idea for CFS.

Interaction between copper and zinc at GABAA receptors in acutely isolated cerebellar Purkinje cells of the rat

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"When Zn2+ was applied together with 2 μm GABA, the Zn2+-induced block of GABA-mediated currents was not additive to the Cu2+-induced block. In the presence of 0.1 μm Cu2+ in the bath solution the degree of inhibition of GABA-mediated responses by Zn2+ was strongly attenuated."

 

[MyUsernameHere]

Are you getting enough magnesium? Calcium? Also, what form of Zn do you use? Picolinate?

Zinc gluconate and picolinate combined. I take 200-300 mg of supplemental magnesium chloride and drink close to 1 L of milk per day.

Normally I wouldn't supplement but I think I have mild signs of deficiency and I know from my diet there is no way I meet the RDA most days.

 

[Gustav3Y]

I supplement 120mg dose of zinc pıcolınate about two weeks, First days I experienced severe joint pains, cracking sounds and headache. But now my chronic extremity sounds completely gone. My hands are warmer. palms are red and smooth. I will continue more two weeks.

What else do you take at this point together with zinc pico?