Cortinon+ or other sups trash my liver function (I think)

[Mazzle]

I am starting to notice a bit of a pattern. Each time I take a supplement to try and raise metabolism or reduce cortisol in order to loose weight, it seems to trash my liver function and actually results in weight gain. I am assuming it’s liver function, my stools turn yellow colour, I feel generally unwell, sometime slightly constipated, angry. I try the sup for three or so days then stop taking g it because it feels like the wrong direction. I’ve noticed this specifically with progesterone cream and cortinon. What could be going on here? I feel like my body is giving me clues but I can’t work out the problem.

 

[haidut]

I am starting to notice a bit of a pattern. Each time I take a supplement to try and raise metabolism or reduce cortisol in order to loose weight, it seems to trash my liver function and actually results in weight gain. I am assuming it’s liver function, my stools turn yellow colour, I feel generally unwell, sometime slightly constipated, angry. I try the sup for three or so days then stop taking g it because it feels like the wrong direction. I’ve noticed this specifically with progesterone cream and cortinon. What could be going on here? I feel like my body is giving me clues but I can’t work out the problem.

What are those other supplements you are using? If all of them are causing the same issues, then it is probably not the supplements but a liver problem that makes it hard to tolerate supplements in general.

 

[Mauritio]

I am starting to notice a bit of a pattern. Each time I take a supplement to try and raise metabolism or reduce cortisol in order to loose weight, it seems to trash my liver function and actually results in weight gain. I am assuming it’s liver function, my stools turn yellow colour, I feel generally unwell, sometime slightly constipated, angry. I try the sup for three or so days then stop taking g it because it feels like the wrong direction. I’ve noticed this specifically with progesterone cream and cortinon. What could be going on here? I feel like my body is giving me clues but I can’t work out the problem.

I have/had the same thing.

It's definitely related to cortisol and liver function.

With bad glycogen storage, lowering cortisol often results in a compensatory cortisol increase that is even higher than baseline.

As discussed here before, high cortisol leads to an increase in weight gain, especially belly fat, and the other things you mentioned .

Progesterones/cortinons ability to do that simply shows how powerfully they lower cortisol.


The solution is to help liver function in a way that is not mainly focused on lowering cortisol.
And taking very small dosages of the things that lower cortisol. For example I just take 1mg of pregnenolone and get good effects from it ,whereas 50mg sends me into deep hypoglycemia.

 

[Peatness]

Could it be the dhea?

Your Own Health And Fitness, 11/12/1996: Thyroid/Progesterone and Diet

Someone pointed out that these interviews were probably intended to be accessed through a "library card" that helps fund the radio program. So consider purchasing one to support a worthy site!

raypeatforum.com

 

[Mazzle]

What are those other supplements you are using? If all of them are causing the same issues, then it is probably not the supplements but a liver problem that makes it hard to tolerate supplements in general.

Yes, this is exactly right. I sort of feel that the supplements push my liver to hard. Supplements doing their job but my liver not behaving or coping in some way. This isn’t a post against the supplements. It’s more that the supplements are highlighting an existing problem with my liver Am trying to figure out what that might be. I’ve noticed this effect with cortinon and progesterone specifically.

 

[Mazzle]

I have/had the same thing.

It's definitely related to cortisol and liver function.

With bad glycogen storage, lowering cortisol often results in a compensatory cortisol increase that is even higher than baseline.

As discussed here before, high cortisol leads to an increase in weight gain, especially belly fat, and the other things you mentioned .

Progesterones/cortinons ability to do that simply shows how powerfully they lower cortisol.


The solution is to help liver function in a way that is not mainly focused on lowering cortisol.
And taking very small dosages of the things that lower cortisol. For example I just take 1mg of pregnenolone and get good effects from it ,whereas 50mg sends me into deep hypoglycemia.

Thank you. This feels like a possibility. Does glycogen storage improve as the liver gets more healthy or is there a specific approach or sup I could take to improve glycogen storage? Also, in terms of supporting liver, I have taken TUDcA (I think it’s called ) in the past which felt good but I didn’t notice anything outstanding. But that was before trying progesterone and cortinon. Milk thistle, has no noticeable effect.

Interesting what you say about taking smaller doses - especially with progesterone. I’ve been doing 50 mg plus on that as I thought higher doses were better. Cortinon+ I’m taking a drop morning and night. No idea what that dose is.

Oh, am also taking Tyrone. Three drops on skin, morning and sometimes through the day. I’ve not noticed that highlighting the same liver problem, it just stops me feeling like I won’t die of a heart attack. I shall try microdosing and try and spread it out more.

 

[Mazzle]

Could it be the dhea?

Your Own Health And Fitness, 11/12/1996: Thyroid/Progesterone and Diet

Someone pointed out that these interviews were probably intended to be accessed through a "library card" that helps fund the radio program. So consider purchasing one to support a worthy site!

raypeatforum.com

Thank you. And for the link. Hummm. I have two weird dark patches of skin on my abdomen, they look exactly right shape and position for adrenals. Despite all my searching I can find no ref to what it might be so am guessing adrenal glands. However, I look like a Cushings with central weight, protruding belly, hump and milk / prolactin. I’m very confused to be honest. If my problems are to do with my adrenals pumping out too much DHEA, cortisol and Adrenalin then would that also overload my liver. And taking cortinon+ And progesterone would overwhelm a badly functioning liver ? Is that correct. I feel like I’m in a loop.

 

[Mauritio]

Thank you. This feels like a possibility. Does glycogen storage improve as the liver gets more healthy or is there a specific approach or sup I could take to improve glycogen storage? Also, in terms of supporting liver, I have taken TUDcA (I think it’s called ) in the past which felt good but I didn’t notice anything outstanding. But that was before trying progesterone and cortinon. Milk thistle, has no noticeable effect.

Interesting what you say about taking smaller doses - especially with progesterone. I’ve been doing 50 mg plus on that as I thought higher doses were better. Cortinon+ I’m taking a drop morning and night. No idea what that dose is.

Oh, am also taking Tyrone. Three drops on skin, morning and sometimes through the day. I’ve not noticed that highlighting the same liver problem, it just stops me feeling like I won’t die of a heart attack. I shall try microdosing and try and spread it out more.

Yes it does.
I tried all the known liver options and none of them really worked.
For me forcing my body into uncoupling and a state of high CO2 helped me the most.

 

[Peatness]

Thank you. And for the link. Hummm. I have two weird dark patches of skin on my abdomen, they look exactly right shape and position for adrenals. Despite all my searching I can find no ref to what it might be so am guessing adrenal glands. However, I look like a Cushings with central weight, protruding belly, hump and milk / prolactin. I’m very confused to be honest. If my problems are to do with my adrenals pumping out too much DHEA, cortisol and Adrenalin then would that also overload my liver. And taking cortinon+ And progesterone would overwhelm a badly functioning liver ? Is that correct. I feel like I’m in a loop.

Why guess why not get your doctor to investigate? Or get blood work done privately.

 

[Mazzle]

Why guess why not get your doctor to investigate? Or get blood work done privately.

Is it guessing? Or is it 'Perceive, Think, Act'? People end up here listening to advice which goes against standard convention like 'eat sugar' or take this sup - 'only for lab rats' because they have already tried the conventional routes, they have already spent years with Dr's and tests and they are still f***ed. People end up here because they want to take control of their health and stay powerfully and proactively involved in their well being rather than passive recipients of medical advice driven my pharma which is rotten to its core and does harm. Iv'e spent ten years doing that getting nowhere. When I joined this forum, I was at the end of my life, I felt close to death, wanted to die and was hopeless. I have a choice this month and probably the next and the following, which is, do I spend money on my health or spend money on food for the family? Then the choice is, do I spend more money on tests, which, by the way is all guess work for me trying to figure out which ones I need. Or, do I 'Percieve. Think, Act', (guess is shorter), and take a punt on sups which have been tried and tested by good people here in similar or worse situations. My faith is in this site and the experiences of people here. I'm off now to do more research (guess work) and try and figure out if @Mauritio advice to uncouple and raise CO2 means divorcing my husband and holding my breath or something else entirely!

 

[youngsinatra]

Progesterone can induce intrahepatic cholestasis.

It modulates bile acid metabolism in a negative way from my understanding.

Progesterone alters biliary flow dynamics.

OBJECTIVE: To test the hypothesis that progesterone alters sphincter of Oddi and gallbladder function and, therefore, bile flow dynamics. SUMMARY BACKGROUND DATA: Although the effects of progesterone on the biliary tract have been implicated in the increased ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Peatness]

Is it guessing? Or is it 'Perceive, Think, Act'? People end up here listening to advice which goes against standard convention like 'eat sugar' or take this sup - 'only for lab rats' because they have already tried the conventional routes, they have already spent years with Dr's and tests and they are still f***ed. People end up here because they want to take control of their health and stay powerfully and proactively involved in their well being rather than passive recipients of medical advice driven my pharma which is rotten to its core and does harm. Iv'e spent ten years doing that getting nowhere. When I joined this forum, I was at the end of my life, I felt close to death, wanted to die and was hopeless. I have a choice this month and probably the next and the following, which is, do I spend money on my health or spend money on food for the family? Then the choice is, do I spend more money on tests, which, by the way is all guess work for me trying to figure out which ones I need. Or, do I 'Percieve. Think, Act', (guess is shorter), and take a punt on sups which have been tried and tested by good people here in similar or worse situations. My faith is in this site and the experiences of people here. I'm off now to do more research (guess work) and try and figure out if @Mauritio advice to uncouple and raise CO2 means divorcing my husband and holding my breath or something else entirely!

Very funny. You are a comedian! You will survive.

Let’s not throw out the baby with the bath water. You mentioned liver issues after supplements - Me suggesting testing is not controversial in that context.

 

[Korven]

Progesterone can induce intrahepatic cholestasis.

It modulates bile acid metabolism in a negative way from my understanding.

Progesterone alters biliary flow dynamics.

OBJECTIVE: To test the hypothesis that progesterone alters sphincter of Oddi and gallbladder function and, therefore, bile flow dynamics. SUMMARY BACKGROUND DATA: Although the effects of progesterone on the biliary tract have been implicated in the increased ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

+1

Hormones and fat solubles like A and D can be quite problematic for an already congested liver. Stools turning yellow, feeling unwell, etc, does sound like cholestasis and/or fatty liver.

I had the same problem and fixed it by drinking 4 pins of hot water per day and eating lots of beef. I know it sounds 'too simple to work' but it is very effective for promoting bile flow. Maybe you could try that and see if helps?

 

[Mazzle]

Very funny. You are a comedian! You will survive.

Let’s not throw out the baby with the bath water. You mentioned liver issues after supplements - Me suggesting testing is not controversial in that context.

You are right. I missed a trick as well. What tests would you suggest?

 

[Mazzle]

+1

Hormones and fat solubles like A and D can be quite problematic for an already congested liver. Stools turning yellow, feeling unwell, etc, does sound like cholestasis and/or fatty liver.

I had the same problem and fixed it by drinking 4 pins of hot water per day and eating lots of beef. I know it sounds 'too simple to work' but it is very effective for promoting bile flow. Maybe you could try that and see if helps?

This is bizarre. During my lowest years i was increasingly intolerant of spending anytime outside, in particular in the sun. Absolutely not like me historically. I just physically couldn’t be outside and would go weeks never seeing daylight. Since things have improved slightly I am able to spend more time outside and actually feel benefit from it. However, another sup that just doesn’t sit well with me is Vit D which I thought I should take given my sunlight aversion. I always feel wrong after taking it. I’m absolutely going to try this. How long did you do it for? Thank you. This really chimes.

 

[Mazzle]

Progesterone can induce intrahepatic cholestasis.

It modulates bile acid metabolism in a negative way from my understanding.

Progesterone alters biliary flow dynamics.

OBJECTIVE: To test the hypothesis that progesterone alters sphincter of Oddi and gallbladder function and, therefore, bile flow dynamics. SUMMARY BACKGROUND DATA: Although the effects of progesterone on the biliary tract have been implicated in the increased ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Thank you. This is really interesting.

 

[A.R]

Progesterone can induce intrahepatic cholestasis.

It modulates bile acid metabolism in a negative way from my understanding.

Progesterone alters biliary flow dynamics.

OBJECTIVE: To test the hypothesis that progesterone alters sphincter of Oddi and gallbladder function and, therefore, bile flow dynamics. SUMMARY BACKGROUND DATA: Although the effects of progesterone on the biliary tract have been implicated in the increased ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

From my personal experience, all the natural hormones do this to a compromised liver, when taken exogenously. Even though testosterone has all the great studies showing it improves liver function/cures cirrhosis etc, it certainly doesn’t do that to me.

With a damaged liver, last thing a person wants to do is take exogenous hormones/thyroid. Yet it’s so casually recommended by some people on this forum and Dr Peat in some of his quotes.

Taking external hormones and thyroid put me in a much worse situation when I first started familiarising myself with Peat principles.

Credit goes to Haidut because he has highlighted and brought forward so many different compounds which Dr Peat has already talked about, and there is so much material on this forum for a person to learn to heal their liver/digestion/endotoxin load.

@Mazzle i hope you get better, but you still have not mentioned all the supplements you are taking. Please list them all.

 

[Peatness]

You are right. I missed a trick as well. What tests would you suggest?

The bile issue seems significant so why not start with the suggestions already posted here before testing, they seem reasonable.

 

[Mazzle]

From my personal experience, all the natural hormones do this to a compromised liver, when taken exogenously. Even though testosterone has all the great studies showing it improves liver function/cures cirrhosis etc, it certainly doesn’t do that to me.

With a damaged liver, last thing a person wants to do is take exogenous hormones/thyroid. Yet it’s so casually recommended by some people on this forum and Dr Peat in some of his quotes.

Taking external hormones and thyroid put me in a much worse situation when I first started familiarising myself with Peat principles.

Credit goes to Haidut because he has highlighted and brought forward so many different compounds which Dr Peat has already talked about, and there is so much material on this forum for a person to learn to heal their liver/digestion/endotoxin load.

@Mazzle i hope you get better, but you still have not mentioned all the supplements you are taking. Please list them all.

A.R Thank you.
I mentioned in my OP that the symptoms, which is now looking more likely to be a liver problem, was noticeable when I took Cortinon+ and Progesterone cream.
I happened to take a week or so off all my other sups and brought Cortinon+ and Progesterone cream back in. It was noticeable that they both have this effect on my liver. I've tried them before in the past and have just not felt right on them but, I keep thinking I should just try them again as they are so well indicated. I am chasing clues so thought this effect was worth investigating.
So Cortinon+ and Progesterone cause this effect but they are not part of my daily sups.

Each morning I take
Vit B1 Thiamin 500mg HCI - This has been my life saver. Literally bought me back from the dead
Vit B1 Thiamin TTD 100mg (have just added this in about a month ago - I think i am ok on it so long as I don't take too much - sometimes I feel headache like blood sugar is low. I dunno. )
Rutin 500mg - Again a life saver. Has had a profound effect on mobility and aches.
Tablespoon of beef gelatin granules in porridge
Tablespoon of coconut oil in porridge
Sugar in porridge
Tyronene - I put about three drops on my arm and am a bit inconsistent with this but if my heart starts beating out my chest this is what I turn to. That and asprin. I am probably using this all wrong. Sometimes a drop of Tyromix in evening.
Magnesium - a bit hit and miss with this but have been super low in past so should prob take more
B2 100mg - the odd one here and there

I have recently been taking but am not taking now
Niacinamide (250-500mg) Because of that Rat study which said they lost significant weight on low dose. It's done nothing for me, in fact, I have put 3lb on since doing this.
Asprin (really helps reduce edema in lower legs) Was taking 3 x 300mg but am not doing that now. Just take asprin when i feel the need.

I have taken plenty of other things, in particular around the whole B12 Anemic, MTHFR area but I can't get to grips with this and feel i'm not doing it right - I dont know what i'm doing.
Diet - someone bound to ask. I now make sure I have b'fast, I can sometimes manage to eat lunch and I have dinner. All home cooked basic ingredients, nothing processed. I try not to drink milk unless it's lactose free as regular milk gives me irritable bladder. Proper animal fats in cooking, coconut, ghee. Occasionally Olive oil. Am trying to drink juice but its not a major part of my diet. Fruits sometimes give me horrendous digestive upset. I try and make a coffee each day.

I'm not on any other medication

Anything that jumps out or suggestions gratefully received.

 

[cjm]

For example I just take 1mg of pregnenolone and get good effects from it ,whereas 50mg sends me into deep hypoglycemia.

+1

Low dose doxycycline, i.e., 10mg, is enough to encourage/re-start my troubled breathing in the morning when I wake up. I never noticed effects from a full cap (100mg).