Contraceptive Pill

[Rayser]

I have read " Not the "female hormone," but the shock hormone" and I will be able to read some more soon. I want to read up on progesterone soon.
But now there is less rush. Rayser, I think your words made an impression. I copied and send her your replies and yesterday she told me she will quit the pill this summer and that we could then do with a combination of condoms and fertility awareness as I suggested to her.
So, in the upcoming months I will have time to educate myself about estrogen and progesterone with the articles you have provided me :). Later I can perhaps convince her to use progesterone (I will first have to be convinced myself though I likely will, Ray Peats ideas are great although in my eyes not always very practical).
I'm just very happy now that she will quit the pill . I also feel lucky to have found important health information like that of Ray Peat at my age though it came at a price.

Franz, that's just wonderful! I am really glad you made it. Wish I'd had a boyfriend like you when it mattered.
But I have to say I respect your girlfriend very much for being open minded enough to even listen to arguments.
I am not sure I would have been smart enough when I was at university.
She must be a remarkable person.
It's good you guys have one another.
If she ever has any questions - please tell her she's welcome to ask any time.

 

[HDD]

I am going to order for my daughters, who are in their 20's:

"FROM PMS TO MENOPAUSE: FEMALE HORMONES IN CONTEXT"

and

"NUTRITION FOR WOMEN"

(I will read first and then pass on)

 

[Rayser]

That's just great, Haagendazendiane! (Can't write or read your name without my mouth watering.)
I wish Ray Peat would make e-books out of his books.
I will ask him. Maybe he would allow others to do it for him and sell them on his website?

I think they are both easy to read (the books) and I especially love the end of "Nutrition for Women" about feelings.

 

[Beebop]

I wish Ray Peat would make e-books out of his books.

I was just thinking yesterday "I wonder if RP would let someone turn his books into ebooks". I think it's a good idea.

 

[Rayser]

A good idea and a lot of work.
I wonder if he'll agree.
He doesn't want his newsletter to be available digitally.
I'll keep you posted.

 

[Beebop]

It wouldn't have to be a flashy ebook site with "buy me buy me" written all over it, just an option for people to access his work.

 

[j.]

I am going to order for my daughters, who are in their 20's:

"FROM PMS TO MENOPAUSE: FEMALE HORMONES IN CONTEXT"

and

"NUTRITION FOR WOMEN"

(I will read first and then pass on)

In my opinion, they're fantastic books.

 

[Kelly]

http://www.leaflady.org/bcpillnutrition.htm

I would not recommend this article to women you want to convince to stop the pill. It absolutely down plays the "side effects" and emphasizes the "safety" as birth control.

"... there are many possible side effects. Weight gain, emotional swings, circulatory and vascular symptoms, and gastrointestinal upset are not uncommon. Blood clots, liver problems, and cancer are also possible, though relatively rare; these were more common in the 1960s with the higher-dose pills. Many women have difficulty with oral contraceptives, though many others seem to tolerate them well."

All it says in the article is that the pill causes some deficiencies in vitamin and mineral levels. It sounds a lot like advertising, including a list of the things you should "supplement" if you want to stay on the "99% safe pill".

She will have some dozen articles too read, I would not include this one.
Maybe she starts reading Ray Peat on her own?

I would definitely put as much effort as possible into convincing her to not use BC. I am very against it. I'm trying to think of this in context of what I'd do if one of my daughter's decided to go on the pill. I'd work very hard to make them aware of the dangers. It'd be my only thought. But if I could not convince them, I'd certainly want to help them mitigate as many of the bad side effects as possible.

I don't think that article says it's 99% safe, all I see is that it's 99% effective.

I do agree that I would only use this after I did all I could to convince her not to use it.

 

[Rayser]

I'm sorry, Kelly - I didn't want to say it that plainly before but the article you posted includes so much false information, it's hard to find a point where to start criticizing it.

You cannot offset the negative effects of the pill because anything opposing the estrogen would be anti-estrogenic or natural progesterone which would reduce or even eliminate the one "positive" (that is: desired) effect of the pill: the birth control part.

I don't see why a young woman should not use birth control. I'm not at all against it.
As long it's not estrogen or progestin being used.

The harmful effects of estrogen are downplayed in the article.

* Though taking oral contraceptives regularly is 99 percent effective in birth control, there are many possible side effects. Weight gain, emotional swings, circulatory and vascular symptoms, and gastrointestinal upset are not uncommon. Blood clots, liver problems, and cancer are also possible, though relatively rare; these were more common in the 1960s with the higher-dose pills.

* Oral contraceptives may create certain nutrient deficiencies and excesses as well as increase the nutritional needs of the user. Most of the B vitamins, particularly pyridoxine (B6) and folic acid, are needed in higher amounts when birth control pills are taken. The copper level usually rises, and zinc levels often fall. Thus, more zinc is needed as well. An increased need for vitamins C, E, and K may also result from the use of birth control pills.

Supplementing zinc will cause gastrointestinal inflammation and increases the risk for breast cancer.
Supplementing vitamin C can activate dormant cancer cells.
Supplementing vitamin K while already supplementing estrogen will increase the danger of blood clotting.

* Sharon DeBuren, nurse practitioner and nutritionist, adds that the depression from BCPs is also a neurochemical reaction to artificial steroids (female hormones), and from a lack of a women's own superior hormones, estradiol and natural progesterone secreted with ovulation.

Lack of estradiol on the pill. That would be a first.
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/na ... gens.shtml

* Cutting down on refined foods and sugary treats is also suggested; these foods are "empty" calories and may cause further nutrient depletion.

No sugar, sure.
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/sugar-issues.shtml

* Teenage girls on "the pill" must also be particularly careful to avoid nutritional deficiencies, and all would be well advised to take a supportive nutritional supplement. Adequate intake of the antioxidant nutrients, such as vitamins C and E, selenium, and beta-carotene, can help reduce potential toxicity of oral contraceptives.

We all know: the less supplements, the better.

Ray Peat: With a diet high in protein (e.g., at least 70-100 grams per day, including eggs) and vitamin A (not carotene), I have found that the dose of progesterone can be reduced each month.

Ray Peat: The reason for the menopausal progesterone deficiency is a complex of stress-related causes. Free-radicals (for example, from iron in the corpus luteum) interfere with progesterone synthesis, as do prolactin, ACTH, estrogen, cortisol, carotene, and an imbalance of gonadotropins.

* A high-nutrient diet is the best prevention for problems. Low-fat protein levels and nutritious foods such as whole grains, vegetables, nuts, and seeds are also important. Eating lots of vegetables is the best way to prevent many mineral deficits and also maintain weight. And several teaspoons of cold-pressed vegetable oil, particularly olive oil, should also be used daily to ensure the intake of the essential fatty acids.

Don't know where to start here ...

* Copper intake in supplements should be limited to 1 mg., though the increased zinc intake will help lower copper levels.

No copper supplements - I can give you a list of the symptoms you might get. Frightening! They can oxidize the vitamins in your body. Eat oysters if you want more copper and balance it with zinc at the same time. Zinc will not lower copper levels, it just balances them.

* Whole grains, nuts, seeds, and vegetables will ensure that copper requirements are met.

Again.

* Nutrient Program for Oral Contraceptives: Water 1½-3 qt.

Ray Peat doesn't recommend water. He says thirst is a good way to know if you need something to drink. He recommends OJ, milk, Coca-Cola, ...

* Nutrient Program for Oral Contraceptives: Plus a high quality vitamin-mineral product with at least these nutrients: Vitamin A 5,000-10,000 IUs, Calcium* 600-1,000 mg., Beta-carotene 10,000-20,000 IUs, Chromium 200-400 mcg., Vitamin D 200-400 IUs, Copper 1-2 mg., Vitamin E 400-600 IUs, Iron 15-20 mg., Thiamine (B1) 25-50 mg., Magnesium* 400-600 mg., Riboflavin (B2) 25-50 mg.,
Manganese 5-10 mg., Niacin or niacinamide (B3) 25-50 mg., Molybdenum 150-300 mcg., Pantothenic acid (B5) 50-250 mg., Phosphorus 600-800 mg., Pyridoxine(B6) 25-200 mg.,
Potassium 1-2 g., Cobalamin (B12) 50-200 mcg. (at CHI we suggest 2800mcg daily), Selenium 150-300 mcg., Folic acid 600-800 mcg., Zinc 30-60 mg., Biotin 200-400 mcg., PABA 25-50 mg.

Sounds like an interesting meal: supplement salad.

* Fatty acids, olive, or Flaxseed oils 1-2 teaspoons

Flaxseed oils because they are "essential".

* Vitamin C 1-3 g. with Bioflavonoids 250-500 mg.

Ray Peat: Flavonoids and polyphenols, like our own estrogens, suppress the detoxifying systems of the body.

Ray Peat: For example, the flavonoids, naringenin, quercetin and kaempherol (kaempherol is an antioxidant, a phytoestrogen, and a mutagen) modify the metabolism of estradiol, causing increased bioavailability of both estrone and estradiol. (W. Schubert, et al., "Inhibition of 17-beta-estradiol metabolism by grapefruit juice in ovariectomized women," Maturitas (Ireland) 30(2-3), 155-163, 1994.)

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/na ... gens.shtml

Ray Peat: Vitamin C stimulates the absorption of iron, so it might be a good idea to avoid drinking orange juice at the same meal with iron-rich foods. A deficiency of copper causes our tissues to retain an excess of iron, so foods such as shrimp and oysters which contain abundant copper should be used regularly.

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/iron-dangers.shtml


So after all I would not recommend this article.
There are hundreds of better publications out there.
Ray Peat's for instance.

 

[Bryan]

@Franz: No one has mentioned the cervical cap? Used along with a condom it would be safer than just the condom alone.

 

[Kelly]

You are correct Rayser. I'm sorry I made it necessary for you to type all that out.

 

[4peatssake]

4peatssake and BingDong -- Thank you very much for your kind words. They mean a lot.
I take it I don't sound like a burning mad woman then.

No, not at all. You sound like a "Wise Woman" to me.

 

[4peatssake]

I wish Ray Peat would make e-books out of his books.
I will ask him. Maybe he would allow others to do it for him and sell them on his website?

A good idea and a lot of work.
I wonder if he'll agree.
He doesn't want his newsletter to be available digitally.
I'll keep you posted.

Oh WOW, this freaking amazes me. I just discussed this very thing with him a few days ago, asking him if I could help him do this. I even said I was pretty sure I knew of others who would also help with this - and other administrative things he may not be able to get to. And I had you and ttramone in mind to ask to help!

WOW, I'm so amazed by this. He told me that he is about two years behind in updating the website and that he does want to get the books made into ebooks.

Here is what he wrote to me:

I'm about two years behind on my internet site postings and getting books printed, etc.; I have the ISBN numbers for all my books, but I have mislaid them, and when I find them I want to have electronic versions available, as well as paper editions. I'm also hoping to arrange for the receipts to go to starting a place in Mexico where people can go for short courses in hormones and nutrition; a few years ago, I was referring people to a doctor there for thyroid and other things, but they had awful problems with PayPal.

Exciting about him wanting to start a place in Mexico. Maybe some of us could meet there one day! And meet him!!

I think it would be great if we can help him with this - and perhaps other things as well. A great way to give back to him for all he is giving to us!

I really hope that he lets us help!

I am right now in the process of converting books for someone else who I volunteer for so this is very timely.

 

[j.]

One could the ISBN numbers going to amazon.

Mind and Tissue
ISBN-10: 0893708933
ISBN-13: 978-0893708931

Generative Energy
ASIN: B0006PA9N2

Nutrition for Women
ASIN: B0006P9ZLY

From PMS to menopause: Female hormones in context
ASIN: B0006QR2D6

Progesterone in orthomolecular medicine
ASIN: B0006PA9BY

 

[4peatssake]

One could the ISBN numbers going to amazon.

Mind and Tissue
ISBN-10: 0893708933
ISBN-13: 978-0893708931

Generative Energy
ASIN: B0006PA9N2

Nutrition for Women
ASIN: B0006P9ZLY

From PMS to menopause: Female hormones in context
ASIN: B0006QR2D6

Progesterone in orthomolecular medicine
ASIN: B0006PA9BY

Thanks j. I'm sending these to him right now!

Brilliant!

 

[Franz]

@Franz: No one has mentioned the cervical cap? Used along with a condom it would be safer than just the condom alone.

True, but I don't like it and I doubt she will. Fertility awareness and condoms, or perhaps progesterone later, seems like a better alternative.

 

[Franz]

Franz, that's just wonderful! I am really glad you made it. Wish I'd had a boyfriend like you when it mattered.
But I have to say I respect your girlfriend very much for being open minded enough to even listen to arguments.
I am not sure I would have been smart enough when I was at university.
She must be a remarkable person.
It's good you guys have one another.
If she ever has any questions - please tell her she's welcome to ask any time.

Thanks. Your words definitely helped! Though just showing her how important I think this is likely helped as much as any arguments I gave her. I think at least in part she is quitting for me :P.

 

[Beebop]

Here is what he wrote to me:I'm about two years behind on my internet site postings and getting books printed, etc.; I have the ISBN numbers for all my books, but I have mislaid them, and when I find them I want to have electronic versions available, as well as paper editions. I'm also hoping to arrange for the receipts to go to starting a place in Mexico where people can go for short courses in hormones and nutrition; a few years ago, I was referring people to a doctor there for thyroid and other things, but they had awful problems with PayPal.

4peat this is fantastic!

 

[Rayser]

You are correct Rayser. I'm sorry I made it necessary for you to type all that out.

No, I am sorry, Kelly. I saw the parts you wanted to convey. I just think you as an educated Peatian (Peatitioner?) will concentrate on the correct information which is there of course.
But somebody who has no idea who Ray Peat is will probably just see a way to supplement themselves out of the dietary problems caused by the pill.
It still pains me very much to know that the 20 year old daughter of a friend uses the pill in spite of lots of estrogen dominance symptoms. She can't read English texts and the German publications sound too harmless.
Thanks for indulging me, Kelly.

 

[Rayser]

Here is what he wrote to me:I'm about two years behind on my internet site postings and getting books printed, etc.; I have the ISBN numbers for all my books, but I have mislaid them, and when I find them I want to have electronic versions available, as well as paper editions. I'm also hoping to arrange for the receipts to go to starting a place in Mexico where people can go for short courses in hormones and nutrition; a few years ago, I was referring people to a doctor there for thyroid and other things, but they had awful problems with PayPal.

4peat this is fantastic!

THAT'S THE BEST NEWS IN YEARS!!!
Thank you for asking him, I haven't had time yet.