Contraceptive Pill

[charlie]

 

[Rayser]

Yes, Charlie - my face looked like your icon when I read j.'s post but let's face it: He's not wrong.
We all think it.
Asking me about the pill is a little like asking a burn victim about fire.
Every problem I ever had started with this poison and I consider it manslaughter to prescribe this to a child.
But I always try to stay calm and talk reasonably and dispassionately about it.

I had a very good friend who was diagnosed with lymphoma last spring. Her oncologist told her very clearly that 22 years on the pill was one of the reasons for her disease. Then he told her she should use it during the chemo therapy to "protect her fertility". She believed him though somebody who had had lymphoma and cured it with natural progesterone talked to her in person several times. She was only 37 when we buried her last winter.
Thinking of her I spent some hours to find this information. If you speek German, I have more.

General information:

http://www.amazon.de/Bitter-Pill-Perfec ... 39&sr=8-12
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/need-to-know/he ... -pill/480/
http://www.amazon.com/Doctors-Case-Agai ... 0897931815
http://www.progesteronetherapy.com/prog ... z2Pmii1K00
http://www.thepillkills.com/history_2.php
http://frvanhove.wordpress.com/2011/03/ ... tive-pill/
C. Djerassi, The making of the pill, Science 84, 1984.

http://moody-cow.com/wp-content/uploads ... l_Rape.pdf (DOES NOT EXIST ANYMORE!)

The most accurate and scientifically correct information:

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/es ... ress.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/es ... osis.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/estriol-des-ddt.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/imprinting.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/es ... ncer.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/calcium.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/na ... gens.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/pr ... ries.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/thyroid.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/pr ... ions.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/pr ... ries.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/aging ... rone.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ep ... rone.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/coron ... rone.shtml

Some studies and articles:

http://www.nih.gov/news/health/may2012/nichd-24.htm
http://www.asrm.org/uploadedFiles/ASRM_ ... entation(1).pdf
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00099164
http://zrtdocsblog.blogspot.de/2010/04/ ... -case.html
http://www.dmc.org/prb
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/databases/alerts ... estin.html
http://www.womeninbalance.org/resources ... page_id=84
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1555 ... t=Citation
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1590 ... t=Citation
http://www.natural-progesterone-advisor ... rogestins/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10796865
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2006/apr ... one_01.htm
http://www.lolopk.org/WIB%20copy/pdf/Al ... rapies.pdf
http://www.ehow.com/about_5377622_natur ... estin.html
http://www.advancedfertility.com/inducovu.htm
http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/whi/estro_pro.htm
http://www.mdanderson.org/publications/ ... ancer.html

Birth control with progesterone (natural progesterone!!):

Controlling fertility

The notion that fertility in mammals could be controlled by the manipulation of reproductive hormones was first proposed by the Austrian physiologist Ludwig Haberlandt, who based his hypothesis on his own work with laboratory animals He and others observed that the ovarian follicle would not mature and ovulation would not occur during normal pregnancy, and that
this suppressive effect was mediated by progesterone. Progesterone is produced by the corpus luteum during the second half of the normal menstrual cycle, and its blood levels remain elevated only if pregnancy occurs. As long as certain levels of progesterone persist in the circulation, hormonal signals favoring the shedding of the endometrium, ripening of additional ovarian follicles, and release the ova, would not occur.

If pregnancy does not occur during a normal menstrual cycle (above), the corpus luteum will stop producing progesterone, the endometrium will stop growing and menstrual bleeding will occur. If pregnancy occurs, the zygote produces human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG) which prevents the involution of the corpus luteum. Persistent progesterone production by the corpus luteum sustains the viability of the endometrium so that development of the embryo can continue.
So scientists like Haberlandt, who would seek to develop a birth control pill, focused their efforts on finding a chemical that would mimic the normal effects of progesterone.

For more information: "Once a Month" by Katharina Dalton

If you only want to read one text or give one to your girlfriend, I would choose this by Carla J. Rothenberg:
http://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handl ... sequence=1

 

[Franz]

Rayser, again I sincerely appreciate the time and effort you put into helping me with this issue. Thank you very much!
It will take some time for me to read through all this. I will print it all out and put it into a big ringband :). Hehe, I'm putting way more effort into studying these kind of things that studying what I actually study :P.

And yes I speak german good enough to read though german articles with some effort, I'm dutch. My girlfriend even speaks german fluently :).

PS I talked about it with her some more and now she said that she would like to go off the pill when she is done with her study (another 3.5 years) because then it wouldn't be as bad if she got pregnant. Using condoms doesn't feel safe to her :/. Well, at least I'm making progress :). She agrees that the pill is bad for her but it makes her feel safe and she still thinks that it isn't THAT bad and that when she stops her body will quickly balance itself as if nothing ever happened.

 

[Rayser]

Hi, Franz - should I send you the German articles with e-mail or in a PM?
I am afraid 3.5 years is a very long time. I know of women who's hormonal system has been messed up after half a year supplementing estrogen. There is at least one article in the lot I posted which is about getting pregnant after using the pill. Many women have trouble getting pregnant at all. Most need years to balance their hormones. Of course the pill will also cause continuing stress of the brain and "excite" brain cells without any phases of relaxation.
The pill is not THAT bad. It is much worse.
But I have to admit at the time I was using it I wasn't listening to anybody telling me it was a bad idea. Even though my cousin told me she'd had psychological problems lasting for years after only a year on the pill.
Progesterone protects again unwanted pregnancies just as safely but has only beneficial effects. It helps with brain cell regeneration and learning, too.
I think it's great that your girlfriend wants to learn about what she's doing to her body. That's more than I would have expected. And I think it's great that you care about her that much.
I don't think condoms are safe, either. Maybe for birth control but the latex contains lots of allergens.

 

[Kelly]

I am 100% against artificial birth control. That being said, it's very difficult to convince a person that something is bad for them when they don't want to believe it. I think this article is really helpful because it's only point isn't to try to get a person off birth control. It points out all the awful things birth control does, but also recommends some supplements you can take to help.

http://www.leaflady.org/bcpillnutrition.htm

It really stinks that she's been on the pill so long and wants to continue for so much longer. I can completely understand being desperate when you have bad periods, though. I also had very painful periods (bc didn't help, thank goodness, so I only poisoned myself with that crap for a few months). Cutting out gluten, upping calcium, magnesium, and good protein has made it so I don't even need pain killers anymore. It still hurts but it's easily 80% better. For the 20ish years leading up to this, I needed to take 600 mg ibuprofen every 6 hours for 3 days to even be able to minimally function.

Good luck to both of you.

 

[gretchen]

I took the bcp in my mid 30s for early perimenopause symptoms. As time went on it slowed my metabolism and caused a lot of hyped up mood swings and irritability just as bad or worse than I had off it. The reason for this likely is estrogen dominance; Peat writes a lot about this so you will want to read his articles to understand why taking the bcp long term is a bad idea.

My younger sister took the pill from age 15 to early 30s and despite carrying two pregnancies to term ended up with endometriosis and a cyst that necessitated the removal of one of her ovaries. So now she has less estrogen but also less progesterone (and therefore is probably still estrogen dominant). HTH.

 

[Jenn]

Tell her it will slow down her metabolism and make her FAT.

 

[Rayser]

http://www.leaflady.org/bcpillnutrition.htm

I would not recommend this article to women you want to convince to stop the pill. It absolutely down plays the "side effects" and emphasizes the "safety" as birth control.

"... there are many possible side effects. Weight gain, emotional swings, circulatory and vascular symptoms, and gastrointestinal upset are not uncommon. Blood clots, liver problems, and cancer are also possible, though relatively rare; these were more common in the 1960s with the higher-dose pills. Many women have difficulty with oral contraceptives, though many others seem to tolerate them well."

All it says in the article is that the pill causes some deficiencies in vitamin and mineral levels. It sounds a lot like advertising, including a list of the things you should "supplement" if you want to stay on the "99% safe pill".

She will have some dozen articles too read, I would not include this one.
Maybe she starts reading Ray Peat on her own?

 

[Rayser]

Tell her it will slow down her metabolism and make her FAT.

Unfortunately it doesn't have this effect on everybody and if she's been on the pill since she was 11 - she will probably know whether she's fat or not.

 

[Jenn]

I don't mean now, I mean as she gets older or if she does become pregnant. Of course, I know lots of women who've become pregnant on the pill. Some have also developed cysts that have interfered with the pregnancy or delivery of the child.

 

[Rayser]

Yes, Jenn - me, too.
A very good friend of mine had been on the pill since she was 20. She tried to get pregnant at 28 and quit the pill.
It took eight years and IVF to have a baby and then he was born 8 weeks early.

 

[Franz]

Tell her it will slow down her metabolism and make her FAT.

She has gained some weight, is not pleased about it, and acknowledges that she might loose weight if she got off the pill.

 

[Franz]

Hi, Franz - should I send you the German articles with e-mail or in a PM?
I am afraid 3.5 years is a very long time. I know of women who's hormonal system has been messed up after half a year supplementing estrogen. There is at least one article in the lot I posted which is about getting pregnant after using the pill. Many women have trouble getting pregnant at all. Most need years to balance their hormones. Of course the pill will also cause continuing stress of the brain and "excite" brain cells without any phases of relaxation.
The pill is not THAT bad. It is much worse.
But I have to admit at the time I was using it I wasn't listening to anybody telling me it was a bad idea. Even though my cousin told me she'd had psychological problems lasting for years after only a year on the pill.
Progesterone protects again unwanted pregnancies just as safely but has only beneficial effects. It helps with brain cell regeneration and learning, too.
I think it's great that your girlfriend wants to learn about what she's doing to her body. That's more than I would have expected. And I think it's great that you care about her that much.
I don't think condoms are safe, either. Maybe for birth control but the latex contains lots of allergens.

Please send them to x :)

The main problem is that condoms aren't that good at preventing pregnancies, there is about a 5% chance of getting pregnant if a couple uses condoms for a year. That is too high for her because she can't get any kids when she is still studying and would find it absolutely horrible if she had to get an abortion. I basically need a better alternative than only condoms otherwise she will not take the risk before finishing her study.
One alternative is perhaps a combination of a fertility awareness method with condoms, together that would be a very safe method though we wouldn't have that much "safe" days which we both wouldn't like. But at least for me this would still be preferable over her ruining her health further.
I will also look into progesterone as a method of birth control. It seems it helps with the bad effects from estrogen. If I can find some statistics showing the degree of its effectiveness in preventing unwanted pregnancies then this might be another alternative. But I surely won't be able to convince her of the effectiveness of progesterone as a birth control method by just pointing out the biological mechanism or showing her some testimonials. Nope, she'd want cold hard proof.

PS. Maybe condoms aren't that great with the allergens but it's still much better than the pill and wayyy better than no sex (that will surely cause stress :P )

 

[Franz]

Though, now that I think about it. If enough information suggests and shows natural progesterone is at least somewhat effective at preventing unwanted pregnancies but no real statistics are available she might still accept it in combination with condoms.

 

[Rayser]

Franz ... I don't know about statistics since more than 200 million women are on the pill but with the information I posted before you will have a few hundred studies to read. This and the scientific publications and books I recommended in English and German could keep both of you some months busy - if you don't do anything else.

If you need more, go to amazon and search for "Natural Progersterone". It has been used for birth control since the Celts. None of those competes with one of Peat's articles but at least you'll see that he - and we - are not making this up.

Maybe you just read one the articles by Ray Peat I suggested?
It's a lot easier to talk about something when there is a little understanding about the issue.

 

[BingDing]

Rayser, I can hardly imagine a more persuasive argument against the birth control pill than what you have posted, it speaks from experience and knowledge. I hope Franz's girlfriend reads this whole thread, and realizes she will be old some day. The part about not recognizing the harm until it's too late is profound; that is exactly how it happens. Not just the BCP, but PUFAs and all the zenoestrogens in the environment, etc.

I think young people who read Ray Peat and gain an understanding about metabolism and hormones are so lucky. None of this was available when I was young, or even middle aged.

Thanks, Rayser, this thread will be available forever, may everyone who reads it learn from your words.

Bing Ding

 

[4peatssake]

Rayser, I can hardly imagine a more persuasive argument against the birth control pill than what you have posted, it speaks from experience and knowledge. I hope Franz's girlfriend reads this whole thread, and realizes she will be old some day. The part about not recognizing the harm until it's too late is profound; that is exactly how it happens. Not just the BCP, but PUFAs and all the zenoestrogens in the environment, etc.

I think young people who read Ray Peat and gain an understanding about metabolism and hormones are so lucky. None of this was available when I was young, or even middle aged.

Thanks, Rayser, this thread will be available forever, may everyone who reads it learn from your words.

Bing Ding

Well said, Bing Ding, I wholeheartedly agree.

I was thinking earlier today exactly what you have posted, about how fortunate it is when people find Ray Peat in their youth. I am grateful to have found him now - even though I am nearly 52 - because I finally understand the true nature of all of my suffering - and how it all got started at such an early age.

It is incredible really. Like you, I do so hope that Franz's girlfriend will read this entire thread so she too can feel the truth and conviction contained in Rayser's powerful words.

 

[Franz]

I have read " Not the "female hormone," but the shock hormone" and I will be able to read some more soon. I want to read up on progesterone soon.
But now there is less rush. Rayser, I think your words made an impression. I copied and send her your replies and yesterday she told me she will quit the pill this summer and that we could then do with a combination of condoms and fertility awareness as I suggested to her.
So, in the upcoming months I will have time to educate myself about estrogen and progesterone with the articles you have provided me :). Later I can perhaps convince her to use progesterone (I will first have to be convinced myself though I likely will, Ray Peats ideas are great although in my eyes not always very practical).
I'm just very happy now that she will quit the pill . I also feel lucky to have found important health information like that of Ray Peat at my age though it came at a price.

 

[Beebop]

Hey Franz, I'm glad you're considering fertility awareness. I've actually found it a lot easier than it sounds on paper. You have to educate yourself, but after that it's just like cleaning your teeth every day (in fact a bit like remembering to take the pill every day!) :) Good luck!

 

[Rayser]

4peatssake and BingDong -- Thank you very much for your kind words. They mean a lot.
I take it I don't sound like a burning mad woman then.