Concerns About Coconut Oil And DHT

[KnowledgeSeeker]

Ray recommends keeping fat intake low but besides that
Low Fat Diets and Testosterone
"One of the big myths out there is that low fat diets lower testosterone levels. Of course, anecdotally, this could be true with some men, but the research is clear that is not generally the case and I outline just why below.
1. Healthy Men Aged 19 to 46 (13%). This study took men and put them on either a 41% fat diet or a 19% fat diet. The lower fat diet had more fiber and a lower saturated fat to polyunsaturated ratio, both of which are supposed to lower testosterone. So the men on the Lower Fat Diet had dramatically lower T, right? Wrong! Their testosterone was 13% lower. That's it.

So think about it. The men on the higher fat diet would very likely develop arteriosclerosis at an acclerated rate and steadily lose endothelial function. The men on the lower fat diet would have much less arterial plaque and would have greatly increased blood flow and nitric oxide. Now that's a fair trade for a 13% reduction in testosterone if you ask me! The conclusion is clear: dramatically increased nitric oxide for an inconsequential drop in testosterone.

2. Cross Section of Men (0%). This study found that men going on a true Low Fat Diet at the Pritikin Center experienced no change in testosterone levels. Total T was 510 ng/dl before and about 510 after. What was remarkable, though, was the fact that estradiol dropped like a rock and fell by a little over 50%! [2]


By the way, some of you mistrust Low Fat Diets, because you consider them a radicalized diet that is vegan only and allows no meat. And it is true that some of the current leaders in the movement are vegans. However, the real apostle of Low Fat Diets in the U.S. was Nathan Pritikin and he ate a little meat regularly. (He only chose lower fat selections however.) Dr. Gould, one of the physicians that I call a Plaque Reverser, actually encourages some meat consumption. And Dr. Ornish, probably the most well-known of the Low Fat Diet gurus, allowed for egg whites and some nonfat dairy in his program.

So, again, this study shows NO drop in testosterone and a very significant boost in the T/E2 ratio. This will almost for sure help you feel better and protect your prostate as well.

CAUTION: One reason that low fat diets do not lower testosterone levels is that they generally are not high protein. Higher levels of protein tend to lower testosterone and most of these studies are not on bodybuilders and athletes trying to consume 160 grams of protein a day obviously. If you are going to consume a lot of protein, then you may want to run your testosterone before and after as precautionary measure. You can do so by using one of the labs on this page: Inexpensive Testosterone Labs for Men Who Wish to Self-Test.

3. Early Senior Aged Men (12%). This study put men on a higher fat, low fiber diet and contrasted with a high fiber, lower fat diet. Again, this is supposed to hammer testosterone levels according to anti-low fat pundits. Of course, no such thing happened and testosterone levels fell by a meager 12%.

Again, who thinks that eating low amounts of fiber is going to improve health? If you added fiber to the higher fat diet, it might erase the testosterone differential altogether.
"

Even smart men make mistakes.

https://www.google.de/amp/s/www.anabolicmen.com/fats-and-testosterone/amp/

 

[Queequeg]

Even smart men make mistakes.

https://www.google.de/amp/s/www.anabolicmen.com/fats-and-testosterone/amp/

These studies always increase the PUFA to SFA ratio and I think that is what is causing the drop off in testosterone.
from your article
"This may explain why vegan men tend to have slightly lower testosterone levels in majority of the studies, as their diets are quite low in fat, and the fat they get comes mostly from PUFAs, what also seems to occur in all of these studies is that lower SFA higher PUFA results in higher SHBG and less testosterone bioavailibity."

and

"A Finnish study by Hämäläinen et al. is also a prime example of the importance of total fat intake. The researchers made their subjects switch from a diet containing 40% calories fat (mainly from animal sources) into a diet that contained 20% calories from fat (mainly from PUFA), and then back again into the 40% fat. They found that testosterone levels plummeted when the subject switched to the low-fat diet, and returned back higher when the fat intake was lifted back to 40%. Another human study by Bélanger et al. did similar change and saw similar results, switching to lowered fat intake (and higher PUFA) resulted in significantly lower levels of androgens."

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

These studies always increase the PUFA to SFA ratio and I think that is what is causing the drop off in testosterone.
from your article
"This may explain why vegan men tend to have slightly lower testosterone levels in majority of the studies, as their diets are quite low in fat, and the fat they get comes mostly from PUFAs, what also seems to occur in all of these studies is that lower SFA higher PUFA results in higher SHBG and less testosterone bioavailibity."

Exactly. Also SFA lowers SHBG. = more free T.

 

[Queequeg]

Exactly. Also SFA lowers SHBG. = more free T.

What I am saying is that all the research that shows that a lower fat diet reduces testosterone are based on high PUFA diets. A low fat but high in SFA diet doesn't reduce testosterone but does give all the other benefits of a low fat diet, reduced heart disease, reduced diabetes, lower toxin, lower cholesterol and FFAs, fat loss etc.
smart men don't make mistakes very often

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

What I am saying is that all the research that shows that a lower fat diet reduces testosterone are based on high PUFA diets. A low fat but high in SFA diet doesn't reduce testosterone but does give all the other benefits of a low fat diet, reduced heart disease, reduced diabetes, lower toxin, lose fat etc.
smart men don't make mistakes very often

Yeah. But if you want to increase your free T then you can eat more SFA which is proven to lower SHBG, hence more free T. I get acne, more strength, better feeling generally and all that when I am on high fat butter diet.

 

[Queequeg]

Yeah. But if you want to increase your free T then you can eat more SFA which is proven to lower SHBG, hence more free T. I get acne, more strength, better feeling generally and all that when I am on high fat butter diet.

well everything is subject to individual experience. If high fat feels better for you then it probably is. What %fat are you eating btw.

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

well everything is subject to individual experience. If high fat feels better for you then it probably is. What %fat are you eating btw.

40% carb 40% fat 20% protein

When I'm cutting calories 35% fat 25% protein

Pretty much only SFA.

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

40% carb 40% fat 20% protein

When I'm cutting calories 35% fat 25% protein

Pretty much only SFA.

I'm planning to go on 45% carb 35% fat 20% protein though. Maybe in a month or two.

 

[Queequeg]

I'm planning to go on 45% carb 35% fat 20% protein though. Maybe in a month or two.

Well definitely do what feels best. I personally am on an even split of all three but am working on lowering fat and protein a bit. My cholesterol is 275 so I want to get that closer to around 225 or so just in case there is something to the cholesterol bugaboo.

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

Well definitely do what feels best. I personally am on an even split of all three but am working on lowering fat and protein a bit. My cholesterol is 275 so I want to get that closer to around 225 or so just in case there is something to the cholesterol bugaboo.

Obviously if you have cholesterol problems then that's something else. I don't have problems regarding that. I agree the body is very flexible and everyone is different.

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

Well definitely do what feels best. I personally am on an even split of all three but am working on lowering fat and protein a bit. My cholesterol is 275 so I want to get that closer to around 225 or so just in case there is something to the cholesterol bugaboo.

Btw.

Higher carb to protein ratio = Higher Free T to Cortisol ratio.

Not surprising since carbs lower cortisol.

 

[Queequeg]

Btw.

Higher carb to protein ratio = Higher Free T to Cortisol ratio.

Not surprising since carbs lower cortisol.

yes good point

 

[Wagner83]

Yeah. But if you want to increase your free T then you can eat more SFA which is proven to lower SHBG, hence more free T. I get acne, more strength, better feeling generally and all that when I am on high fat butter diet.

How is acne positive ? As the other member suggested in one of his posts, it seems to agree with higher fat intake increasing estrogens levels.

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

How is acne positive ? As the other member suggested in one of his posts, it seems to agree with higher fat intake increasing estrogens levels.

Acne is as sign of high testosterone. Look it up. Guess why guys in puberty and steroid users get acne. Estrogen though clears up acne.

 

[Ron J]

Does Caprylic Acid and Capric Acid inhibit 5AR/DHT as well?

 

[Buttercup]

Ray recommends keeping fat intake low but besides that
Low Fat Diets and Testosterone
"One of the big myths out there is that low fat diets lower testosterone levels. Of course, anecdotally, this could be true with some men, but the research is clear that is not generally the case and I outline just why below.
1. Healthy Men Aged 19 to 46 (13%). This study took men and put them on either a 41% fat diet or a 19% fat diet. The lower fat diet had more fiber and a lower saturated fat to polyunsaturated ratio, both of which are supposed to lower testosterone. So the men on the Lower Fat Diet had dramatically lower T, right? Wrong! Their testosterone was 13% lower. That's it.

So think about it. The men on the higher fat diet would very likely develop arteriosclerosis at an acclerated rate and steadily lose endothelial function. The men on the lower fat diet would have much less arterial plaque and would have greatly increased blood flow and nitric oxide. Now that's a fair trade for a 13% reduction in testosterone if you ask me! The conclusion is clear: dramatically increased nitric oxide for an inconsequential drop in testosterone.

2. Cross Section of Men (0%). This study found that men going on a true Low Fat Diet at the Pritikin Center experienced no change in testosterone levels. Total T was 510 ng/dl before and about 510 after. What was remarkable, though, was the fact that estradiol dropped like a rock and fell by a little over 50%! [2]


By the way, some of you mistrust Low Fat Diets, because you consider them a radicalized diet that is vegan only and allows no meat. And it is true that some of the current leaders in the movement are vegans. However, the real apostle of Low Fat Diets in the U.S. was Nathan Pritikin and he ate a little meat regularly. (He only chose lower fat selections however.) Dr. Gould, one of the physicians that I call a Plaque Reverser, actually encourages some meat consumption. And Dr. Ornish, probably the most well-known of the Low Fat Diet gurus, allowed for egg whites and some nonfat dairy in his program.

So, again, this study shows NO drop in testosterone and a very significant boost in the T/E2 ratio. This will almost for sure help you feel better and protect your prostate as well.

CAUTION: One reason that low fat diets do not lower testosterone levels is that they generally are not high protein. Higher levels of protein tend to lower testosterone and most of these studies are not on bodybuilders and athletes trying to consume 160 grams of protein a day obviously. If you are going to consume a lot of protein, then you may want to run your testosterone before and after as precautionary measure. You can do so by using one of the labs on this page: Inexpensive Testosterone Labs for Men Who Wish to Self-Test.

3. Early Senior Aged Men (12%). This study put men on a higher fat, low fiber diet and contrasted with a high fiber, lower fat diet. Again, this is supposed to hammer testosterone levels according to anti-low fat pundits. Of course, no such thing happened and testosterone levels fell by a meager 12%.

Again, who thinks that eating low amounts of fiber is going to improve health? If you added fiber to the higher fat diet, it might erase the testosterone differential altogether.
"

I always thought that the benefits of low fat were actually related to metabolism? So fat (even saturated) competes with sugar, and too much fat and sugar over a prolonged period will result in impaired glucose metabolism. So hello diabetes and hello a host of other very unpleasant disorders (insulin resistance, fatty liver, etc). I think it's called the randle cycle. So low fat and high carb (with a body that utilises its carb intake effectively) results in increased metabolism. Increased metabolism equals increased CO2. Increased CO2 is highly anti-estrogenic, and this will result in more pronounced blood flow as estrogen impairs the relaxation ability of the arterial walls. Nitric oxide is a stress hormone, is it not? Not saying it doesn't become raised on a low fat diet (also), but this is what I have thought is happening in my body on a low fat diet from a Peat perspective (increased CO2). Obviously, if your low fat approach includes a favourable calcium/phosphorus ratio, you could be pushing CO2 even further.

I know nitric oxide is relevant in libido (I think?!?!?). But is libido a relaxed state? I don't consider it such a state.

Saying that, I personally notice way higher libido on a lower fat diet. So there is something to it. And testosterone and all other hormones are made from cholesterol (not fat). Liver contains hardly fat at all, yet has high cholesterol. Shrimp also has barely any fat at all, but is very high in cholesterol.

Dr Peat said in a radio interview that a quart of OJ will raise cholesterol way more than a few eggs. Fructose raises cholesterol. Thyroid eats cholesterol. It needs cholesterol to function. That's why Peat recommends the sugar (increases T3 conversion and raises cholesterol).

OJ and the fruits also come with useful cofactor nutrients (to help utilise the sugar).

There is nothing more anabolic than raising metabolic rate.

Cheers! Goodnight everyone xx

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

I always thought that the benefits of low fat were actually related to metabolism? So fat (even saturated) competes with sugar, and too much fat and sugar over a prolonged period will result in impaired glucose metabolism. So hello diabetes and hello a host of other very unpleasant disorders (insulin resistance, fatty liver, etc). I think it's called the randle cycle. So low fat and high carb (with a body that utilises its carb intake effectively) results in increased metabolism. Increased metabolism equals increased CO2. Increased CO2 is highly anti-estrogenic, and this will result in more pronounced blood flow as estrogen impairs the relaxation ability of the arterial walls. Nitric oxide is a stress hormone, is it not? Not saying it doesn't become raised on a low fat diet (also), but this is what I have thought is happening in my body on a low fat diet from a Peat perspective (increased CO2). Obviously, if your low fat approach includes a favourable calcium/phosphorus ratio, you could be pushing CO2 even further.

I know nitric oxide is relevant in libido (I think?!?!?). But is libido a relaxed state? I don't consider it such a state.

Saying that, I personally notice way higher libido on a lower fat diet. So there is something to it. And testosterone and all other hormones are made from cholesterol (not fat). Liver contains hardly fat at all, yet has high cholesterol. Shrimp also has barely any fat at all, but is very high in cholesterol.

Dr Peat said in a radio interview that a quart of OJ will raise cholesterol way more than a few eggs. Fructose raises cholesterol. Thyroid eats cholesterol. That's why Peat recommends the sugar.

Cheers! Goodnight everyone xx

I think that applies when you're obese but not lean.

 

[Dobbler]

Even smart men make mistakes.

https://www.google.de/amp/s/www.anabolicmen.com/fats-and-testosterone/amp/

Just a quick note to this:

AM owner said in his forum (that aparently got shut down like 2 weeks ago) that he actually eats full RP diet with only 30-40g of fat nowadays.

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

Just a quick note to this:

AM owner said in his forum (that aparently got shut down like 2 weeks ago) that he actually eats full RP diet with only 30-40g of fat nowadays.

I do eat Ray Peat style too and only eat 60 g of fat but it still is 40% of my fat intake. Ha.

 

[Wagner83]

Dr Peat said in a radio interview that a quart of OJ will raise cholesterol way more than a few eggs. Fructose raises cholesterol. Thyroid eats cholesterol. It needs cholesterol to function. That's why Peat recommends the sugar (increases T3 conversion and raises cholesterol).

Do you know why he says fructose in particular will raise cholesterol? (compared to glucose/starch like potatoes which are nutrient-full as well)