Coconut Oil: In A Unique And Exclusive Category?

amethyst

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Diet is barely a footnote in what is considered Traditional Chinese Medicine ;)

NOTE: anyone can access this knowledge, if you're willing to spend at least US$500 to get all the materials from -- http://www.qigongmedicine.com/medical-qigong-books/ . Dr Jerry Alan Johnson is by far the best source of this material out there. Nobody else even comes close, not even the Chinese sources, some of which I've read.

Sidenote: What we call today "Traditional Chinese Medicine" is what has come filtered by the Chinese Government. Originally, there were many conflicting schools of Medicine in China, each with their own practices, go-to herbs, and recommendations, which definitely diverged from famous early works (IMO, this divergence was a result of treatment people under different environmental conditions -- China is a vast country with vastly different environments).

You cannot gain access to the Chinese sources, due to existing political conditions, and due to the fact that the cultural system of passing on such techniques were "only from Master to Worthy Disciple" within closed circles, with little documentation escaping those circles. Dr Johnson went through the journey of acquiring this knowledge the traditional way, and his work is by far the most comprehensive summary of authentic TCM.​

Dietrich Klinghardt will talk about coherence testing and body representations:


All of this is derived from Traditional Chinese practices, of which learning how to both sense and manipulate body energetic flows is a foundational skill. ie: if you can't memorise all the energetic meridians in the body, forget about the rest ....

Sidenote: if people are wondering how I "test myself", it is using this body of knowledge. Once you learn how to pick up on various energetic channels, you can reliably diagnose the energetic state of various systems in the body on a second to second basis, and thus figure out what interventions will enhance or take away from that coherence.

Note that it was easier for me to accept this sort of therapy because, (a) I am Chinese ;) , and (b) I had the good fortune of meeting my mentor, who demonstrated the techniques, diagnosed my condition, treated it successfully, and then taught me the techniques. That was about 1.5 years ago, and I am good enough to be useful toward myself (in diagnosing and treating any issues that I come up with), but still need to work my way through the full set of materials -- a process that will take many more years.​

I did say that many of the Dietary interventions are useless today. The same goes for many of the "energetic manipulation" techniques. Today's humans are either not capable of generating the energies required, or not capable of accepting the appropriately placed energies.

What is still relevant today is the ability to sense and diagnose medical conditions, and then intervene with the correct substance, at the right dose, at the right time. Also, in many cases, these "Energetic Manipulations" turn out to be simple emission of light / EMF, and is replaceable by supplementing with specific substances which hold those quantised energies.

eg: taking lithium seems to be the equivalent of shining a 472nm light into a cell. This is where Western Medical Science is required, both in the meticulous cataloging and qualification of what each substance does. For example, "what type of lithium compound do I need to do get the cells of a particular system back up and running?". The same goes for compounds like Magnesium Malate vs Citrate vs Orotate -- all 3 have different system targets and pharmokinetics, and need to be used in varying doses for varying contexts. Understanding these from a Western Scientific perspective is also a pre-requisite for accurate treatment.

The same applies to diet -- without understanding the metabolism of various substrate in the way that Western Science has understood it, you have little chance at reasoning about what is an appropriate food at a particular time.

As an aside: anyone want to guess the biggest influence on health? ;) Planetary body alignments wrt Earth. Now that's a whole other can of worms, and a whole different set of study which I'm involved with.​

.....


LOVE Dietrich Klinghardt's work!


As an aside: anyone want to guess the biggest influence on health? ;) Planetary body alignments wrt Earth. Now that's a whole other can of worms, and a whole different set of study which I'm involved with.​

I think you are on to something. 2017 is going to be REAL interesting planetary alignment-wise don't you think?
 
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Coconut meat and oil is considered a "Yang" food, used to cure "Yin Deficiency". It is considered "heat generating".

Still:

(a) most TCM sources out there on the internet are wrong
(b) TCM dietary prescriptions were designed for a different time, for a different set of humans, and based on the experience of the TCM-involved doctors I know, is largely useless in the face of modern conditions.

.....

What kind of TCM doctor do we need to look for? The old school that also knowledgeable in western medicine?

I hope there should be thread about TCM here.
 

smith

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To those who noticed weight loss on coconut oil, have you noticed any change in how your skin appears over your muscles, like an increased indentation so the lines of your muscles and bones are easily seen right underneath the skin? Any change in facial volume, like a leaner face? Does it seem like you became less "plump" on the surface of your skin?
I'm not asking this as if I've experienced any of this or I'm trying to relate to others, I'm asking because I'm curious. Coconut oil is not yet a regular part of my diet.

Does coconut oil cause VISCERAL fat loss, or SUBCUTANEOUS fat loss?
 

BigChad

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Trying to find Ray's recommendations for fat intake is unbelievable. Does anyone know his macronutrient split? He says 25/25/50 P/F/C, but he also says that 25/25/50 P/C/F likely stands as a more natural split for the human. I'm thinking around 1 g/lb for fat, but I can't really tell.

where did you get the 1g/lb figure for fat? maybe for protein it would work. Ray himself only consumed like 60 or 65g fat while weighing over 170 pounds? I think there are also no hormonal benefits to going above the 60g range, while going too low like under 40grams some say, could mess with hormone production. The 25/25/50 split would be in terms of calories, not total grams of each, so in that case if protein were at 500 calories and fat were at 500 calories, that would be 125g protein and 55g fat.
 

tara

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The 25/25/50 split would be in terms of calories, not total grams of each, so in that case if protein were at 500 calories and fat were at 500 calories, that would be 125g protein and 55g fat.
... and carbs at 250g and total calories at 2000? Probably not enough to sustain a healthy metabolism for most grown or growing men.

I've not seen Peat recommend a particular macronutrient split that he is confident will suit everyone/generally.
 
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BigChad

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... and carbs at 250g and total calories at 2000? Probably not enough to sustain a healthy metabolism for most grown or growing man.

I've not seen Peat recommend a particular macronutrient split that he is confident will suit everyone/generally.

I agree, I wasn't recommending those as calorie guidelines, just example numbers for the ratio. From my understanding when people say something like 30/30/40 p/f/c split they mean in terms of calories not grams otherwise protein and fat intake would be equal in grams
 

DaveFoster

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where did you get the 1g/lb figure for fat? maybe for protein it would work. Ray himself only consumed like 60 or 65g fat while weighing over 170 pounds? I think there are also no hormonal benefits to going above the 60g range, while going too low like under 40grams some say, could mess with hormone production. The 25/25/50 split would be in terms of calories, not total grams of each, so in that case if protein were at 500 calories and fat were at 500 calories, that would be 125g protein and 55g fat.
If an active, 170-pound male consumed 170 grams of fat, then that would be 1,530 kilocalories of fat, or around half of 3,000. This would be around 50% of calories, and the 3,000 kcal figure would be the upper-end of an approximated TDEE for such a person.
 

BigChad

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If an active, 170-pound male consumed 170 grams of fat, then that would be 1,530 kilocalories of fat, or around half of 3,000. This would be around 50% of calories, and the 3,000 kcal figure would be the upper-end of an approximated TDEE for such a person.

I see. Ray was fine with 25/25/50 p,c,f? I would think instead of having 170g fat he would want 80g fat and more carbs.
 

DaveFoster

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I see. Ray was fine with 25/25/50 p,c,f? I would think instead of having 170g fat he would want 80g fat and more carbs.
That sounds about right, but I believe that he eats fewer grams of fat than that: closer to forty. I'm not sure regarding the long-term physiological effects of a daily intake of 170 grams of pure saturated fat. Probably not good.
 

rob

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Strangely, coconut oil is one of the few things I've ever consumed that seriously doesn't agree with me. A day or so of consuming it and I start getting all sorts of inflammatory symptoms, notably eczema and rashes.

I do know of some studies linking dietary MCTs to Th2 upregulation and allergy sensitisation, but nothing concrete.

Might depend of the person – nutrigenomics and all that – but natural animal fat is 100% where my health is best on the fat front.
 

BigChad

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Strangely, coconut oil is one of the few things I've ever consumed that seriously doesn't agree with me. A day or so of consuming it and I start getting all sorts of inflammatory symptoms, notably eczema and rashes.

I do know of some studies linking dietary MCTs to Th2 upregulation and allergy sensitisation, but nothing concrete.

Might depend of the person – nutrigenomics and all that – but natural animal fat is 100% where my health is best on the fat front.

some sources claim MCT oil decrease intestinal inflammation?
Did you use virgin organic coconut oil, cold pressed?
Maybe the hydrogenated coconut oil would work better? raw coconut oil can be allergenic, I think Ray mentioned that

That sounds about right, but I believe that he eats fewer grams of fat than that: closer to forty. I'm not sure regarding the long-term physiological effects of a daily intake of 170 grams of pure saturated fat. Probably not good.

Someone posted interviews elsewhere where Ray mentioned his fat intake was around 60g or 65g. I don't know the date of that interview though.
80g was just a random number I threw out, I'm assuming that would be around the max fat intake Ray would advise
 

rob

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@BigChad Yes, it was extra virgin and coldpressed. Tried different brands and everything, but always the same result. Honestly, I'm so put off by the symptoms I don't want to go there again.

And, yes, as you say there are studies pointing in the opposite direction, hence nothing concrete. Think it's an individual thing as clearly some people tolerate it well.
 

DaveFoster

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some sources claim MCT oil decrease intestinal inflammation?
Did you use virgin organic coconut oil, cold pressed?
Maybe the hydrogenated coconut oil would work better? raw coconut oil can be allergenic, I think Ray mentioned that



Someone posted interviews elsewhere where Ray mentioned his fat intake was around 60g or 65g. I don't know the date of that interview though.
80g was just a random number I threw out, I'm assuming that would be around the max fat intake Ray would advise
Interesting, thank you. Sixty grams sounds more accurate.
 

Hgreen56

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Narouz, a month or two ago, I was reading through the article you were referring to written by Ray Peat Coconut Oil. He said that he added 2 tablespoons of coconut oil on top of what he was already eating. And that he in fact did lean out. And the more he added, the more he leaned out. Well, I took that into consideration and decided to give it a shot myself. I added the 76 degree melt coconut oil on top of what I was already eating. And I did the 2 tablespoons a day just like Ray Peat. I have stopped weighing myself because I am done with the scale. But, I do notice that I seem to be a bit leaner. I saw my ex last night, and she isn't one for giving me many compliments. :lol: She said, "You are looking leaner." Well holy smokes! If she said it, and I feel it, it has to be so. I will continue my coconut oil trials and keep you posted. But, I think there really is something to it.
Did you eat starch with it?

Here's my sad tale.
I took 4 TABLESPOONS per day for about 3-4 months.
Did not lose weight.
In fact, gained weight.
.
Did you eat starch with it?
 

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