Coconut Oil Leads To Dementia?

[Mito]

Wasn't there talk about hexane in MCT oil? Or was that in refined coconut oil?

The Bulletproof guy claims his MCT products don’t use hexane or any solvents but he implies cheaper brands do use some kind of solvent.

“We thought it was just an individual tolerance issue, but I soon discovered that it was an oil purity issue.

The reason purity matters is that C17 is a byproduct of other MCT oil production processes, and it, along with C6, is a major cause of disaster pants and irritation. There’s a reason that some MCTs cause problems when the same amount of Bulletproof XCT or Brain Octane won’t.

That’s why the unique process we use at Bulletproof is completely chemical and solvent-free. Most MCT’s on the market are manufactured via chemical/solvent refining, which can require using chemicals like hexane and different enzymes and combustion chemicals, such as sodium methoxide. The oils used to make MCTs – palm and coconut – are often solvent extracted too, but not Bulletproof.

We never allow solvents anywhere near our process. We use triple steam distillation in a non-oxygen atmosphere to avoid lipid oxidation and create a purer process. And we do it 100% in the United States. To my knowledge, no other company uses such extensive distillation to ensure purity, simply because solvents and catalysts are cheaper.”

https://blog.bulletproof.com/what-is-mct-oil-vs-coconut-oil/

 

[Such_Saturation]

The Bulletproof guy claims his MCT products don’t use hexane or any solvents but he implies cheaper brands do use some kind of solvent.

“We thought it was just an individual tolerance issue, but I soon discovered that it was an oil purity issue.

The reason purity matters is that C17 is a byproduct of other MCT oil production processes, and it, along with C6, is a major cause of disaster pants and irritation. There’s a reason that some MCTs cause problems when the same amount of Bulletproof XCT or Brain Octane won’t.

That’s why the unique process we use at Bulletproof is completely chemical and solvent-free. Most MCT’s on the market are manufactured via chemical/solvent refining, which can require using chemicals like hexane and different enzymes and combustion chemicals, such as sodium methoxide. The oils used to make MCTs – palm and coconut – are often solvent extracted too, but not Bulletproof.

We never allow solvents anywhere near our process. We use triple steam distillation in a non-oxygen atmosphere to avoid lipid oxidation and create a purer process. And we do it 100% in the United States. To my knowledge, no other company uses such extensive distillation to ensure purity, simply because solvents and catalysts are cheaper.”

https://blog.bulletproof.com/what-is-mct-oil-vs-coconut-oil/

I tried that years ago. It was indeed completely flavorless and odorless. That is, until it started smelling like the bottle after a while. Which is funny, since he claims to use the "only safe plastic" (HDPE).

 

[noordinary]

@Travis @tca300 @Such_Saturation
A lil Italian explanation comes from here:
MCT Oil - Medium Chain Triglycerides - www.fratelliparodi.it
"Medium Chain Triglycerides (MCT) are mixed triglycerides of saturated fatty acids with a chain length of 6 to 12 carbon atoms, mainly C8 (caprylic acid) and C10 (capric acid). MCT Oil can be obtained in two ways, by chemical recombination of refined fatty acids coming from coconut oil with glycerine, or directly by molecular distillation of virgin coconut oil. The first product is a synthetic vegetable based ester, and as such is subject to REACH registration. The second one is a 100% natural product, processed with physical treatments only, and as such is exempt from REACH registration. The separation process is non-chemical and involves a simple physical separation process, thus there are no chemical residues to worry about."
WTF?!

I mean . . . WTF is going on with this, really?

(gets me every time lol)
"Vegetable based ester" ?!
Distillation sounds safe, but what about glycerine?

now i’m comfused how chemical recombination actually works

 

[noordinary]

I had used it for general lubrication (I have an older car, and I do work on it sometimes)

that is not the kind of general lubrication i thought of, but then i read past the bracket

 

[DaveFoster]

Coconut oil lowers serotonin, and therefore it's harmful from Dr. Oz's view.

See the signature of @burtlancast for more insight.

 

[Badger]

Good point.

Coconut oil lowers serotonin, and therefore it's harmful from Dr. Oz's view.

See the signature of @burtlancast for more insight.

 

[LucH]

In 2015, a study was published in another prestigious and peer reviewed journal, Hippocampus (2015; 25:1567-1576), entitled “A high fat diet impairs learning that is dependent on the dorsal hippocampus but spares other forms of learning”. That study indicates that adding saturated fat to soybean oil required 8 weeks and specific tests that depend on the hippocampus in these rats to find important changes in learning from diet.

=> Not only MCT but a lot of omega-6 PUFA's. nearly everybody knows it's contraindicated.

Note: AA = Acid Arachidonic is derived from omega-6 PUFA. PGE2 triggers inflammation cascade.

Those bacteria produce inflammation in your arteries, immune system, and brain (to name just a few areas). That inflammation caused by the poop those bacteria produce relates not to the fat changes they produce but to the amino acids that certain bacteria love.

=> Inflammation is triggered by LPS, not by coconut oil.
Obviously if you force on quantities, if you disturb the microbiota and microbiome, you will disrupt the communication channels.

1. LPS binding proteins mediates LPS detox by chylomicrons
http://www.pubfacts.com/detail/12538700/Lipopolysaccharide-LPS-binding-protein-mediates-LPS-detoxification-by-chylomicrons. J Immunol. 2003 by Anita C E Vreugdenhil et al.
Extract:
our results indicate that LBP associates with chylomicrons and enables chylomicrons to rapidly bind bacterial toxin, thereby preventing cell activation. Besides a role in the detoxification of bacterial toxin present in the circulation, we believe that LBP-chylomicron complexes may be part of a local defense mechanism of the intestine against translocated bacterial toxin (...).
2. LBP has a dual role depending on its relatively low or high concentrations, and augments or downregulates the innate host defense accordingly.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jre.12081/abstract

Useful info (links) on coconut oil

 

[shepherdgirl]

Biochemistry (Mosc). 2010 Dec;75(12):1491-7. Dietary supplementation of old rats with hydrogenated peanut oil restores activities of mitochondrial respiratory complexes in skeletal muscles. Bronnikov GE, Kulagina TP, Aripovsky AV.

 

[Travis]

that is not the kind of general lubrication i thought of, but then i read past the bracket

Well, according to Edward Bernays:

"When a person happens to use the words 'lubrication' and 'virgin' (coconut oil) in the same paragraph there are bound to be certain conscious or unconscious associations—about which the less‐said the better." ―Bernays​

Probably a good thing I hadn't also mentioned palmitic acid.. .

Bernays, Edward L. "Propaganda." Ig publishing (1928)​

 

[Travis]

Biochemistry (Mosc). 2010 Dec;75(12):1491-7. Dietary supplementation of old rats with hydrogenated peanut oil restores activities of mitochondrial respiratory complexes in skeletal muscles. Bronnikov GE, Kulagina TP, Aripovsky AV.

And even with the same amount of aluminum and nickel, short‐term metabolic studies such as these would only lead to positive effects!

 

[shepherdgirl]

@Travis - do you happen to know the duration of the hydrogenated peanut oil study? I don't have the full text. Thanks.
What about some kind of high temperature, non-catalytic hydrogenation (without damaging the oil), or hydrogenation using a minimal amount of coarse particles (possibly less likely to produce flaking) of catalyst that is highly filtered afterward? Granted it would be more expensive, but is it possible? Even standard hydrogenation with enough filtering to minimize nanoparticles? Perhaps something even diy to filter dirty HCO?

 

[Travis]

@Travis - do you happen to know the duration of the hydrogenated peanut oil study? I don't have the full text. Thanks.
What about some kind of high temperature, non-catalytic hydrogenation (without damaging the oil), or hydrogenation using a minimal amount of coarse particles (possibly less likely to produce flaking) of catalyst that is highly filtered afterward? Granted it would be more expensive, but is it possible? Even standard hydrogenation with enough filtering to minimize nanoparticles? Perhaps something even diy to filter dirty HCO?

It was actually a six week study, after which they were decapitated and their mitochondial enzymes assayed. But if they had ingested aluminum particles, the enzymes wouldn't know—the researchers wouldn't know. I don't think there's a very good correlation between nervous integrity and mitochondrial efficiency, especially considering how the control rats who didn't get the oil likely ate more high‐linoleic and ‐methionine rat chow.

But you need to start a company called CocoPlatinum™!

The canonical 'hydrogenators,' or the best catalysts, are actually palladium or platinum. I think this is either because of the spacing between the metal's atoms or its reduction potential, but there's probably even a few esoteric explanations out there based‐on atomic shells. Either way, everyone agrees that dihydrogen gas (H–H) is adsorbed onto the surface of the metal; this stabilizes the hydrogen and primes its for lipid transfer. Immobilizing fast‐moving molecules always seems to increase the reaction rate simply because they are no longer moving—but it's ability to catalyze could go further than than (like also polarizing the hydrogen atoms). I bet you can even find data on 'hydrogen adsorption capacity' of metals.. . .

And since now you have made me curious, I think I will check.. . ..Platinum‐catalyzed hyrogenation is so fundamental that there is even a book on it:

Rylander, Paul. "Catalytic hydrogenation over platinum metals." Elsevier (2012)​

And I found an entertaining article from 1918:

'From other considerations, I was led to believe that when gas molecules impinge against any solid or liquid surface they do not in general rebound elastically, but condense on the surface, being held by the field of force of the surface atoms. These molecules may subsequently evaporate from the surface.‘; The length of time that elapses between the condensation of a molecule and its subsequent evaporation depends on the intensity of the surface forces. Adsorption is the direct result of this.' ―Langmuir​

Too old, but an interesting relic nonetheless.

click to embiggen: Relic from 1918 depicting hydrogen adsorbed onto mica.​

I'm starting to think that all metals adsorb hydrogen: platinum, palladium, and nickel are probably used simply because they don't oxidize. Nickel is by far the cheapest, but it also the most toxic of the three.

But the underlying metal doesn't have to be aluminum; it could be anything . . . it could even be ceramic.​

I'm fairly certain that you could make a Raney catalyst analogue out of palladium‐coated copper. Silver and copper are known for their ability to adhere well with noble metals such as gold and platinum; copper made porous could probably be electroplated by palladium (perhaps with an intervening layer of silver), and it will bond. I'm almost certain the only reason aluminum‐coated nickel is used is because it's cheap, and not for any special properties.

(Someone needs to make CocoPlatinum™ before Dave Asprey does.)​

Microscopically, these Raney particles probably look something like a coral reef. In an industrial setting, profits and output are maximized . . . but I think one could get by with a larger catalysts and longer hydrogenation times. I don't see any fundamental reason why the Raney particles have to be so small, something which could represent a health hazard if consumed in high amounts for long periods.

Langmuir, Irving. "The adsorption of gases on plane surfaces of glass, mica and platinum." Journal of the American Chemical society (1918)
​

 

[shepherdgirl]

@Travis
I agree with you, the measurements of mitochondrial function probably don't have much to do with inflammation.
CocoPlatinum™! I love it! I'm picturing a glossy black label with elegant silver lettering... the ultimate in mitochondrial revitalization!
Probably aluminum coated nickel is one of the worst materials they could use. I know practically nothing about this, but IIRC the Raney nickel is thinly coated on a screen, for maximum contact area, and it seems to me that many little particles would regularly flake off of it, whereas a thicker piece would maybe hold together better.
Your ideas for catalysts are interesting. I have heard that zeolite can also be used as a catalyst - i have heard people say they are concerned about the aluminum in aluminosilicates, and i have also heard people say that the silica is strongly attracting aluminum and will remove aluminum (for ex. in the body)- so I don't really know whether it would be good or bad.
How much of the problem do you suppose comes from the toxicity of the catalyst, and how much is due to persorption issues?

 

[Travis]

ec

@Travis
I agree with you, the measurements of mitochondrial function probably don't have much to do with inflammation.
CocoPlatinum™! I love it! I'm picturing a glossy black label with elegant silver lettering... the ultimate in mitochondrial revitalization!
Probably aluminum coated nickel is one of the worst materials they could use. I know practically nothing about this, but IIRC the Raney nickel is thinly coated on a screen, for maximum contact area, and it seems to me that many little particles would regularly flake off of it, whereas a thicker piece would maybe hold together better.
Your ideas for catalysts are interesting. I have heard that zeolite can also be used as a catalyst - i have heard people say they are concerned about the aluminum in aluminosilicates, and i have also heard people say that the silica is strongly attracting aluminum and will remove aluminum (for ex. in the body)- so I don't really know whether it would be good or bad.
How much of the problem do you suppose comes from the toxicity of the catalyst, and how much is due to persorption issues?

This is tough, because there is less data on aluminum particles than on ionic aluminum—the individual atoms (Al³⁺). But the toxicity of some particles has been investigated, and even something as safe‐sounding as zinc oxide has been shown to induce cytokines. This does make sense, as the body's macrophages must ingest foreign particles; this is their function. White blood cells communicate with other cells by releasing cytokines, small proteins that have receptors on the membrane. There are certainly over forty cytokines; some of them (i.e. IL‐4; IL‐10) can actually be considered beneficial, but most can be quite harmful (i.e. IL‐1; IL‐6; INFγ; TNFα). The most research on particle toxicity is centered around titanium dioxide since it's used in food for whitening (think powdered donuts).

Fabian, Eric. "Tissue distribution and toxicity of intravenously administered titanium dioxide nanoparticles in rats." Archives of toxicology (2008)​

But I don't think there is one study examining low doses of metallic aluminum for multiple weeks. I think the Raney particle would be more toxic because it's metallic, not a metal oxide (mineral) like titanium dioxide. This could be similar to the particles of reduced iron put in wheat flour, but even worse since it an aluminum/nickel particle. The iron particles in wheat flour are in the micron range.

I don't think there's anything wrong with hydrogenated oil, and would think it to be indistinguishable than natural triglycerides (fully hydrogenated oils cannot have trans‐fatty acids). You would think that it would be better than unsaturated oils, on all counts, save for the residual metal particles. Palladium is cheaper than platinum, Platinum is cheaper than palladium at the moment, slightly, and electroplating a copper screen probably wouldn't take more than an ounce.. . .

Another benefit of a platinum catalyst would be it's longevity (platinum is a bit harder than nickel.)

In nature, aluminum is mostly found bound to silica—in clay. This is its low‐energy state and represents a stable, high‐affinity association. Aluminum silicates are less toxic than aluminum hydroxide for this reason. There is some talk of supplemental silica binding aluminum, but citrate and malate can do this. Melatonin has actually been shown to chelate aluminum in two studies, but it's probably too bioactive to be used as a chelator. I think it's better to just concentrating on converting serotonin into melatonin in the brain at night, using folate and darkness. Taking melatonin supplements would likely spare serotonin to a degree, and could even downregulate the enzymes which normally produce it.

But aluminum bound to phosphorylated proteins on the nerves could take years to get rid of, perhaps even decades. I think this is one element everyone should avoid. This is one area where there's tons of data; the fact that aluminum causes neurological issues used to be freely talked about in the '80s, but now the idea seems to be brushed‐aside and marginalized by the media.

 

[CLASH]

@Travis
Besides hydrogenated coconut oil, antipersperants, cans, medications such as antacids and clay what else would be hiding aluminum to your knowledge?

 

[managing]

=> Not only MCT but a lot of omega-6 PUFA's. nearly everybody knows it's contraindicated.
View attachment 7867
Note: AA = Acid Arachidonic is derived from omega-6 PUFA. PGE2 triggers inflammation cascade.
View attachment 7868

=> Inflammation is triggered by LPS, not by coconut oil.
Obviously if you force on quantities, if you disturb the microbiota and microbiome, you will disrupt the communication channels.

1. LPS binding proteins mediates LPS detox by chylomicrons
http://www.pubfacts.com/detail/12538700/Lipopolysaccharide-LPS-binding-protein-mediates-LPS-detoxification-by-chylomicrons. J Immunol. 2003 by Anita C E Vreugdenhil et al.
Extract:
our results indicate that LBP associates with chylomicrons and enables chylomicrons to rapidly bind bacterial toxin, thereby preventing cell activation. Besides a role in the detoxification of bacterial toxin present in the circulation, we believe that LBP-chylomicron complexes may be part of a local defense mechanism of the intestine against translocated bacterial toxin (...).
2. LBP has a dual role depending on its relatively low or high concentrations, and augments or downregulates the innate host defense accordingly.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jre.12081/abstract

Useful info (links) on coconut oil

Yes, I was surprised it took this long for somebody to point out that the studies mentioned by the OP added coconut oil to soybean oil! And then blame the coconut oil for the bad results. Because everybody knows soybean oil is healthy.

Also, its clear to me why Roizen thinks most coconut oil is hydrogenated: because it is solid at room temperature. He is utterly ignorant about the thing he is making wild claims about.

 

[Travis]

Yes, I was surprised it took this long for somebody to point out that the studies mentioned by the OP added coconut oil to soybean oil!

Not all of them had, and certainly not this one here:

Granholm, Ann-Charlotte. "Effects of a saturated fat and high cholesterol diet on memory and hippocampal morphology in the middle-aged rat."Journal of Alzheimer's Disease (2008)​

 

[Travis]

@Travis
Besides hydrogenated coconut oil, antipersperants, cans, medications such as antacids and clay what else would be hiding aluminum to your knowledge?

Baking powder is the big one, but it also can be found in processed cheese (E541). It is used in baking powder because it's diprotic, donating a second hydrogen to bicarbonate and releasing more CO₂ at a higher temperature—used to fluff‐up bread.

Which is why cheap frozen pizza has more aluminum than practically anything else. Most respectable cheese is fine, as is most respectable bread, but it can be hidden in processed foods of this nature. It could even be lurking in a Hot Pocket™, hiding its dementing effects behind an E‐number!

 

[managing]

Not all of them had, and certainly not this one here:

Granholm, Ann-Charlotte. "Effects of a saturated fat and high cholesterol diet on memory and hippocampal morphology in the middle-aged rat."Journal of Alzheimer's Disease (2008)​

You're right, on closer inspection it was only 2 out of 4 that used the combined coconut/soybean.

 

[LucH]

Not all of them had, and certainly not this one here:

Granholm, Ann-Charlotte. "Effects of a saturated fat and high cholesterol diet on memory and hippocampal morphology in the middle-aged rat."Journal of Alzheimer's Disease (2008)

=> Diets rich in cholesterol and/or saturated fats have been shown to be detrimental to cognitive performance. Therefore, we fed a cholesterol (2%) and saturated fat (hydrogenated coconut oil, Sat Fat 10%) diet to 16-month old rats for 8 weeks to explore the effects on the working memory performance of middle-aged rats.
Sat Fat 10% => Which ones?