Cocoa Powder Vs. Chocolate

[DaveFoster]

It's the same isn't it? Does anyone use cocoa powder in their recipes/mixes instead of chocolate?

Is there a benefit to cocoa butter in particular that isn't found in just the cocoa powder constituent?

 

[Sucrates]

Cocoa powder will have much higher polyphenols by weight.

Dietary Cocoa Reduces Metabolic Endotoxemia and Adipose Tissue Inflammation in High-Fat Fed Mice

Dietary cocoa ameliorates obesity-related inflammation in high fat-fed mice. - PubMed - NCBI

Antidiabetic actions of cocoa flavanols. - PubMed - NCBI

Загрузка статьи
Cocoa Flavanol Intake and Biomarkers for Cardiometabolic Health: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis of Randomized Controlled Trials

http://sci-hub.cc/10.1021/jf060290o
Antioxidant Activity and Polyphenol and Procyanidin Contents of Selected Commercially Available Cocoa-Containing and Chocolate Products in the United States

 

[DaveFoster]

Cocoa powder will have much higher polyphenols by weight.

Dietary Cocoa Reduces Metabolic Endotoxemia and Adipose Tissue Inflammation in High-Fat Fed Mice

Dietary cocoa ameliorates obesity-related inflammation in high fat-fed mice. - PubMed - NCBI

Antidiabetic actions of cocoa flavanols. - PubMed - NCBI

Загрузка статьи
Cocoa Flavanol Intake and Biomarkers for Cardiometabolic Health: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis of Randomized Controlled Trials

http://sci-hub.cc/10.1021/jf060290o
Antioxidant Activity and Polyphenol and Procyanidin Contents of Selected Commercially Available Cocoa-Containing and Chocolate Products in the United States

Thanks for all the links.

This comes to mind:

“Japanese women’s relative freedom from breast cancer is independent of soy products: traditional soy foods aren’t the same as those so widely used in the US, for example, soy sauce doesn’t contain the so-called soy estrogens, and tea is used much more commonly in Japan than in the US, and contains health protective ingredients. The “estrogenic” and “antioxidant” polyphenolic compounds of tea are not the protective agents (they raise the level of estrogen), but tea’s caffeine is a very powerful and general anti-cancer protectant. The influential article in Lancet (D. Ingram, Lancet 1997;350:990-994. “Phytoestrogens and their role in breast cancer,” Breast NEWS: Newsletter of the NHMRC National Breast Cancer Centre, Vol. 3, No. 2, Winter 1997) used a method known to produce false results, namely, comparing the phytoestrogens (found in large amounts in soybeans) in the urine of women with or without breast cancer. For over fifty years, it has been known that the liver excretes estrogens and other toxins from the body, and that when (because of liver inertia) estrogen isn’t excreted by the liver and kidneys, it is retained in the body. This process was observed in both animals and humans decades ago, and it is also well established that estrogen itself suppresses the detoxifying systems, causing fewer carcinogens to be excreted in the urine. Ingram’s evidence logically would suggest that the women who have cancer are failing to eliminate estrogens, including phytoestrogens, at a normal rate, and so are retaining a higher percentage of the chemicals consumed in their diets. Flavonoids and polyphenols, like our own estrogens, suppress the detoxifying systems of the body.“ -Ray Peat, PhD

The first study you posted is impressive.

 

[ilikecats]

Cacao lowers dht without a doubt. To bad... it feels dopaminergic as funk. I miss it dearly....

 

[Tenacity]

Chocolate's great! It's a nice calorie source when you don't want to consume high liquid or high starch. As for cocoa powder, I like it for its impressive mineral content.

So cocoa has higher polyphenols. I'm not sure if this is good or bad given the context of the Peat quote Dave posted. Any ideas?

 

[ilikecats]

http://www.ergo-log.com/cacao-inhibits-dht-protects-prostate-against-testosterone.html I'm sure it's the anti inflammatory effects of it that protect the prostate though....

 

[ilikecats]

I get weird ejaculatory problems when I take it.

 

[Sucrates]

I wonder what the larger context of that quote is...

“Orange juice contains naringenin which is effective against melanoma, and guavas contain apigenin, also effective. A diet consisting of milk, orange juice, guavas, cheese, and some eggs, liver, and oysters, with aspirin would be protective against the spread of the tumor.” -Ray Peat, PhD

I wonder if it's not simply that the effects on endotoxin outweigh the latter effects of estrogen...

 

[DaveFoster]

Frequent chocolate use among centenarians coincides with a relatively high fat consumption, as covered by Edward J Edmonds; it may have something to do with chocolate's protective effect in the context of a high-fat diet.

Maybe nicotine has similar protective effects.

It does seem to raise NO but reduce oxidative stress: Cocoa flavanols: effects on vascular nitric oxide and blood pressure

Chocolate's great! It's a nice calorie source when you don't want to consume high liquid or high starch. As for cocoa powder, I like it for its impressive mineral content.

So cocoa has higher polyphenols. I'm not sure if this is good or bad given the context of the Peat quote Dave posted. Any ideas?

I think it's more likely that cocoa has mixed properties, but the pros generally outweigh the cons. I think Ray would even argue that it's a significant source of magnesium, and that's reason enough to consume it for most people.

 

[paymanz]

Cocoa contains catechin right?

I don't know how similar is its catechins to green tea's?!

the ones in green tea have been shown to be potent thyroid suppressant.

 

[Tenacity]

I think it's more likely that cocoa has mixed properties, but the pros generally outweigh the cons. I think Ray would even argue that it's a significant source of magnesium, and that's reason enough to consume it for most people.

I guess there's no perfect food.

 

[Quality]

Big fan of cocoa here.
I use chocamine plus though, which is a patented concentrated extract. gives a very very good moodlift without any noticable crash to me (contains 80mg caffeine per 1000mg chocamine), unlike coffee which does gives me a crash.
Cocoa has so many positive benefits: cognitive, better emotional functioning, skin, mitochondria, cardio vascular.
Pretty much a miracle food/supplement, almost too good to not use it, cheap aswell.
I use about 1000mg of Chocamine plus a day and have been for over 2months, which is double the recommended dose on the package I have to admit, but no side effects at all so far.
Cocoa is one of the only things I know of that activates the Anterior Cingulate Cortex - The effect of flavanol-rich cocoa on cerebral perfusion in healthy older adults during conscious resting state: a placebo controlled, crossover, acute trial
It is also involved in certain higher-level functions, such as reward anticipation, decision-making, impulse control and emotion. - Anterior cingulate cortex - Wikipedia
Explains why so many people crave chocolate after a breakup or bad news. My theory is they are basically self-medicating themselves with this.

As for the difference between Cocoa and chocolate, it obviously depends on wether the Cocoa is "dutched" and the cocoa content of the chocolate your eating.

One important thing to say about anything that contains cocoa though is that it blocks certain minerals from absorbing.
I would advise to take your calcium/magnesium/zinc as far away from anything that contains cocoa, so lets say take your cocoa in the morning and mineral supplement at late in the evening.

 

[milk_lover]

I really don't like cocoa unless I put a lot of sugar. I think the protein in it might stimulate insulin secretion. Even with sugar, it gives me energy but the nervous energy not the calm one. Some stuff in it are not giving me good results. If mix it with milk and sugar, it tastes even better. Add coffee, and it becomes the best. The calcium and coffee might be blocking some of the iron and polyphenols in the cocoa powder. Didn't Peat say adding milk (and lemon) to tea removes some of the bad stuff in tea?

 

[paymanz]

Peat said add lemon or milk to reduce the reactivity of tannins in tea.

 

[paymanz]

Back to original topic I think phenols are more concentrated in butter than powder.

 

[schultz]

I was always a bit worried about phytic acid in cocoa.

 

[FredSonoma]

Cacao lowers dht without a doubt. To bad... it feels dopaminergic as funk. I miss it dearly....

Are you differentiating between cacao and cocoa? Or they're the same essentially? Does cocoa powder and basically all chocolate lower DHT then?

 

[DaveFoster]

I would advise to take your calcium/magnesium/zinc as far away from anything that contains cocoa, so lets say take your cocoa in the morning and mineral supplement at late in the evening.

Interesting; I drink my cocoa (chocolate) all day long with milk, sugar, gelatin, coconut oil, and salt. It's so delicious, I wonder what could be wrong here.

 

[Quality]

Well cocoa contains phytic acid (thanks Schultz for highlighting that I kinda forgot what it was called), this is known to hinder mineral absorption.
Suppose it can be both a curse and a blessing, too much iron in a diet can be bad, cocoa kinda helps here I reckon. But minerals are such as magnesium are an absolute must.

 

[chrismeyers]

Cocoa powder is much higher in the cadmium and lead. And usually at levels dangerous enough to require labeling in some states. Google that. And current trendy raw cocoa products are even worse. As with all things in the non traditional 'raw food' movement, they are just not correct. Phytic acid is much much higher when chocolate isnt processed, and traditional cultures carefully prepared and processed ALL seeds nuts and beans.