Cocoa Positively Modulates The Gut Microbe And Lowers TLRs And Inflammation

[Elephanto]

@Salmonlamb

They never mentioned cocoa in the study.

Find me an important source of theobromine other than cocoa. That is how epidemiologic studies work, when they refer to caffeine intake it is usually coffee since its the most important and popular source, and alcohol intake isn't from pure ethanol but one of its sources.

As for your other points, none of the properties of LABs can't be replaced by the safer agents I mentioned that solve lower gastric acid otuput , since all those changes are made by allowing acidity to remove endotoxins, and the intestinal permeability effect is solved by the avoidance of gut irritants and food that promotes an unhealthy gut microbiota. I don't think that ingesting one of the most important sources of Oxalate is completely mitigated by having good health, since it is literally a cause of shifting the health balance toward the negative end. We'll have to see if chocolate doesn't raise Nitric Oxide in healthy individuals, but I hardly see why it would raise it 4-fold in unhealthy people but not in healthy ones. I notice a pro nitric oxide effect personally and I don't have blood pressure issues. Cocoa powder is also an important source of Aluminium, a neuro-toxic metalloestrogen, and while it falls under "acceptable human consumption ranges", how many times has these ranges been changed decades later after realizing lesser concentrations are also unhealthy. And things aren't black or white, sure you can find beneficial properties to cocoa but when several vitamins/minerals affect the same parameters (TLR, endotoxin, inflammation, dopamine) while not having the negative effects of the former, there is no reason to rely on it.

As the prostate cancer study shows, it doesn't have a net beneficial effect.

 

[Aleeri]

One thing alone no, it's usually an accumulation of factors that promotes it. But raising Nitric Oxide 4-fold, being a source of lactic acid and of oxalate (for general health alone this should be avoided), inducing calcification, I'd say it's much more likely to have a promoting effect than a protective one. In my experience, chocolate and theanine (another Nitric Oxide-raising agent) have a subtle negative effect on my hair (granted I stopped taking them every time I noticed it). Someone who has never had hair loss probably won't see a difference, it is when one's balance is further away from the protective end that small actions can have a noticeable impact. Anyway, it's just a cautionary advice, if people start noticing worse hair fullness/more shedding and can't isolate what is causing it, then perhaps it was this new dietary addition.

Also, I'm not sure that this study shows an entirely beneficial effect. It increases by 7-9 folds the presence of lactic acid-producing bacterias, seems like it could be an important contributor to systemic lactic acid. The high flavanol group also showed almost twice as much E. Coli.

If gut acidity is the main factor protecting from pathogenic growth and endotoxins, shouldn't fixing hypothyroidism, high serotonin and agents like a simple vinegar or dopaminergic substances (that do not raise nitric oxide, lactic acid and are among the highest sources of oxalates), be safer solutions than raising systemic lactic acid ?

If you look at the research out there for cacao it is clearly one of the healthier substances out there. One of the few ones with EU certifications for cardiovascular health. I honestly do not see your fear here, I think it's excessive. I could go on about magnesium being an important mineral and how cacao is one of the best sources for that, or how it helps inhibit iron too ala Peat.

If you want to talk about nitric oxide as a core driver of hair loss, then please tell me why there is no correlation with increased hair loss on PDE5 inhibitor drugs such as daily Cialis which is taken long-term with a very long half-life. This is probably among the strongest ways to increase nitric oxide. Actually, there is even research on some other health benefits of PDE5 inhibitors funny enough, the world is not black and white.

If nitric oxide was the key we would have cured hair loss long ago.

There is nothing but positive studies out there on cacao, and seriously we are only grasping a small part of how things work in the body, Ray Peat is not some kind of divine guru with the best answer to everything. He is intelligent and research more than most on this subject, but humans are flawed in believing that at any time do we hold the answers to everything past and present. Remember we we're also convinced the earth was flat at one point

 

[Elephanto]

There is nothing but positive studies out there on cacao

Moderately-high to high intakes literally increase odds of prostate cancer by 2-fold and aggressive prostate cancer by 1.90-fold in a 1000 subjects study.

Pure theobromine supplements are far from even moderately popular or easily accessible in 2018. In fact a search of "Theobromine" on iherb.com which has the largest range of supps I've seen doesn't get me a single result but rather shows up organic cocoa powder. Doesn't it seem a bit more reasonable that the main source of Theobromine would by far be chocolate instead of the odd person taking a Theobromine supp in the 1980's? You know the food that literally has factories all over the world solely focused on producing it. Even with the most known non-vitamin/mineral substance related to prostate cancer, Lycopene, its main source of consumption is by far tomato sauce rather than supplements.

Btw I've never said that NO was the main or sole factor. There are many factors working in synergy to promote male pattern baldness but a lot of them also raise NO. We find conditions that lead to chronically high levels of NO. The IGFBP3/IGF1 ratio is low in young balding men, as well as prostate cancer. It counteracts soft tissue/scalp calcification and excess keratinocytes proliferation induced by unrestricted IGF1. Here are things that both increase Nitric Oxide and decrease IGFBP3 : Arginine, Estrogen, Endotoxins, Iron, Vitamin D deficiency, Ammonia, Magnesium deficiency, lack of Vitamin A, Zinc deficiency, Arachidonic Acid. Nitric Oxide inhibits systemic respiration and increases Parathyroid Hormone which is known to increase calcification. They all participate to degenerative processes in many ways.

 

[Aleeri]

Moderately-high to high intakes literally increase odds of prostate cancer by 2-fold and aggressive prostate cancer by 1.90-fold in a 1000 subjects study.

Pure theobromine supplements are far from even moderately popular or easily accessible in 2018. In fact a search of "Theobromine" on iherb.com which has the largest range of supps I've seen doesn't get me a single result but rather shows up organic cocoa powder. Doesn't it seem a bit more reasonable that the main source of Theobromine would by far be chocolate instead of the odd person taking a Theobromine supp in the 1980's? You know the food that literally has factories all over the world solely focused on producing it. Even with the most known non-vitamin/mineral substance related to prostate cancer, Lycopene, its main source of consumption is by far tomato sauce rather than supplements.

The problem with the study Smoking, alcohol, coffee, tea, caffeine, and theobromine: risk of prostate cancer in Utah (United States) is that it does not account for the quality of cacao and we all know that 90% of all the commercial brands are full of additives like soy and low on polyphenols. I don't think any conclusion can be drawn from it. If alcohol and cigarettes does not show any correlation (known carcinogens and problematic substances) then how can you expect the rest of the study to show any good results?

How about this:

In-vitro effects of polyphenols from cocoa and beta-sitosterol on the growth of human prostate cancer and normal cells. - PubMed - NCBI
Effect of Cocoa and Its Flavonoids on Biomarkers of Inflammation: Studies of Cell Culture, Animals and Humans
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/...?elsca1=TL-160710&elsca2=email&elsca3=segment
Taking testosterone? Cacao protects your prostate
Effect of dark chocolate on plasma epicatechin levels, DNA resistance to oxidative stress and total antioxidant activity in healthy subjects | British Journal of Nutrition | Cambridge Core
http://digital.csic.es/bitstream/10261/94676/4/Potentia_for_preventive_effects_of....pdf

 

[Braveheart]

The problem with the study Smoking, alcohol, coffee, tea, caffeine, and theobromine: risk of prostate cancer in Utah (United States) is that it does not account for the quality of cacao and we all know that 90% of all the commercial brands are full of additives like soy and low on polyphenols. I don't think any conclusion can be drawn from it. If alcohol and cigarettes does not show any correlation (known carcinogens and problematic substances) then how can you expect the rest of the study to show any good results?

How about this:

In-vitro effects of polyphenols from cocoa and beta-sitosterol on the growth of human prostate cancer and normal cells. - PubMed - NCBI
Effect of Cocoa and Its Flavonoids on Biomarkers of Inflammation: Studies of Cell Culture, Animals and Humans
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(10)61099-9/fulltext?elsca1=TL-160710&elsca2=email&elsca3=segment
Taking testosterone? Cacao protects your prostate
Effect of dark chocolate on plasma epicatechin levels, DNA resistance to oxidative stress and total antioxidant activity in healthy subjects | British Journal of Nutrition | Cambridge Core
http://digital.csic.es/bitstream/10261/94676/4/Potentia_for_preventive_effects_of....pdf

 

[Elephanto]

@Aleeri

That first study shows that cocoa contains beta-sitosterol, which is anti-androgenic. That would be another concern. Also plenty of nitric oxide-raising substances can also have antioxidant/anti-inflammatory properties independent of NO increase, yet I still wouldn't take them when substances that are both NO-inhibiting and anti-inflammatory, anti-oxidant + low in Oxalate and metalloestrogens exist.

Btw wasn't soy much less used as additive in the 1980's ?

 

[Elephanto]

Both of the studies on prostate cancer you posted go from the notion that androgens are causative in prostate cancer. While Peat and haidut have shown that high androgen levels in old age are protective against prostate cancer. I don't think that the prostate cancer induced rapidly in rats like in the second study (with a combination of testosterone and a potent carcinogen) can be paralleled in reality with prostate cancers due to years of low androgen and high estrogen levels. As such many anti-androgens work in labs and in theoretical papers yet have failed in real life and have led to theories (DHT as the main cause) that are almost the opposite of reality. Perhaps that's what could explain the difference betwen the effect of high cocoa intake in real life and the theoretical mechanisms shown in your studies, yet cannot ignore the possibility of poor quality cocoa and additives being involved.

 

[Elephanto]

Effect of dark chocolate on plasma epicatechin levels, DNA resistance to oxidative stress and total antioxidant activity in healthy subjects | British Journal of Nutrition | Cambridge Core

BTW Catechins are usually mentioned as a reason to avoid green tea on here, and by Peat here :

The “estrogenic” and “antioxidant” polyphenolic compounds of tea are not the protective agents (they raise the level of estrogen)

Here the precise type of Catechin in cocoa activates an estrogen receptor :
(-)-Epicatechin stimulates mitochondrial biogenesis and cell growth in C2C12 myotubes via the G-protein coupled estrogen receptor. - PubMed - NCBI

Personally I'm not really scared of Catechins in moderation, but it is still worth noting that if people avoid Green Tea because of those, they should know that cocoa also contains them and its antioxidant effect is at least partly dependent on them.

 

[tallglass13]

I think NO is very important for hair growth. MiNOxidl is Nitric Oxide. It donates NO to the scalp causing widening of blood vessel and hair grows. Problem is , since minoxidil IS nitric oxide, that stops your own production, and when you come off minox, hair falls more rapidly than before since you now make no more NO. Nitric oxide also induces erections. Viagra blocks PDE 5 enzyme that breaks down NO.
Nitric oxide can be dangerous when we don't have enough antioxidants , glutathione and SOD's. this can cause greying of the hair by hydrogen peroxide.

 

[Elephanto]

@tallglass13
Many supplements that people have had success with regarding hair loss inhibit Nitric Oxide systematically (Zinc, Magnesium, Selenium, Niacinamide, raising CO2, coconut oil, anti-estrogens, anti-endotoxins etc).

I don't think that topical application of Minoxidil results in lower systemic NO after discontinuation, and since IGFBP3 is low in young balding men and so many factors that reduce it also increase NO, I'd say that the average balding man has higher Nitric Oxide (if by Endotoxins alone) than a non-balding one. The reason hair falls when one stops Minoxidil (and it often stops working even if you keep with it) is that it is a very artificial crutch and it promoting excess angiogenesis participate to the balding process in long-term. It's like if you would try to raise Histamine to increase blood circulation. CO2 (bicarbonate sodium, B1, fixing metabolism, bag breathing and slow breathing) will insure proper circulation, prevent tissue calcification and help with the underlying causative factors of mpb. As Peat explains, NO is a crutch for when CO2 levels are low and its range of negative effects is important.

See this for example :
L-arginine Supplements - Sudden Rapid Hairloss ?!?
Bodybuilders are more likely to go bald and I wouldn't be surprised if their very high protein intake + the use of Arginine and other Nitric Oxide enhancing supplements participate to it. Not that the liver-damaging effects of steroids and aromatization of testosterone aren't important causes too.

 

[tallglass13]

@Elephanto , I will actually agree with you, and I like your post. I have been raising my NO levels with a certain protocol, and the penile benefits are very remarkable. However, I'm skeptical of any hair growth benefits. I wonder if raising NO and Co2 is doable and safe?

 

[Elephanto]

@Elephanto , I will actually agree with you, and I like your post. I have been raising my NO levels with a certain protocol, and the penile benefits are very remarkable. However, I'm skeptical of any hair growth benefits. I wonder if raising NO and Co2 is doable and safe?

From frequenting propecia help forums a few years ago, I had found studies that show penile calcification was a main cause for ED induced by propecia and that TGF-Beta promoted it. I don't think you need high NO for proper erections but that systemic decalcification, stress reduction and high dopamine should help. Taurine, Zinc, Milk Thistle, Emodin, Olive Oil, Vitamin D, Ginger and Curcumin reduce TGF-Beta. While anything that causes liver damage will increase TGF-Beta (several of the supps that reduce TGF Beta also reverse liver damage), as well as hypoxia (CO2 protects against it), stress, endotoxins, Serotonin (5hta-2), alcohol, estrogen, oxidation from cigarette smoke and possibly sugar (not a popular opinion here but fructose does have liver-fattening and TGF-Beta increasing properties in several studies). Also when doing nofap, I still "force" an erection everyday to prevent calcification to set in from lack of blood flow (usually get a morning wood so I don't need to but if not, it's important).

 

[Aleeri]

@Aleeri
That first study shows that cocoa contains beta-sitosterol, which is anti-androgenic. That would be another concern.

The study compares cocoa polyphenols extract against beta-sitosterol mainly.

You do make some good points though. Definitely, androgens are not the cause of prostate cancer.

BTW Catechins are usually mentioned as a reason to avoid green tea on here, and by Peat here :

Here the precise type of Catechin in cocoa activates an estrogen receptor :
(-)-Epicatechin stimulates mitochondrial biogenesis and cell growth in C2C12 myotubes via the G-protein coupled estrogen receptor. - PubMed - NCBI

Personally, I'm not really scared of Catechins in moderation, but it is still worth noting that if people avoid Green Tea because of those, they should know that cocoa also contains them and its antioxidant effect is at least partly dependent on them.

The issue I have with this though is that you can theoretically say that the substances are bad because of the nitric oxide paradigm but it is not what we see in real life and studies. Humans have been consuming these substances for a very long time and there are a ton of studies on them, many showing benefits. There are lots posted on this forum as well on the benefits of cacao, and Peat has mentioned it as a good food too.

Another thing is also stuff such as resistance training. Anybody who lifts weights knows the insane pump you get after a workout from the nitric oxide it produces. There are also lots of studies on the benefits of lifting. If you going to go anti on everything nitric oxide then all exercise would be bad as well, because they increase it. But we know for a fact that resistance training strengthens most systems of the body and makes you more resilient to stress.

I know also from studies that chocolate consumption is correlated with lower levels of cortisol, along with all its other ton of benefits I find it extremely hard to find your argument on that it's nitric oxide effects would be bad, to be of much importance. You see my point?

13 Science-Backed Health Benefits of Theobromine + Side Effects - Selfhacked
22 Proven Health Benefits of Cocoa and Chocolate - Selfhacked
Cocoa Extract - Scientific Review on Usage, Dosage, Side Effects

Like that paints a pretty positive picture I would say.

Also on the subject of green tea catechins, there are studies showing different results on them and their influence on circulating estrogen levels, both increases and decreases. From my own lab testing, I see no increase in estradiol levels when I consume tea or when I don't.

Personally, I would see catechins as problematic because they can inhibit COMT, which basically would make you process estrogens slower. I was under the impression that this is what Peat was implying but he never talked specifically about it like that as far as I am aware. Still many people seek that out too because they want to increase dopamine. There is though a ton of beneficial effects from tea catechins too and very little studies to say that any type of estrogenic properties of them would be problematic.

Green Tea Catechins - Scientific Review on Usage, Dosage, Side Effects

Overall I know what Peat says about these things and I know the idea, I am just not seeing enough data out there to suggest that it would indeed be problematic.

Also, I would expect to see much more damaging effects from PDE5 inhibitors because of the systemic nitric oxide increase, why is that not the case then?

 

[Elephanto]

@Aleeri
I'm mostly interested in the net effect of a substance, does it actually shift health balance positively or negatively. You'll find pages upon pages of purportedly beneficial, lifespan-enhancing, anti-cancer effects from Resveratrol but will find on here that it is actually estrogenic, stimulates cortisol, activates sirt1 (which silencing increases lifespan in humans) and probably has pro-cancer effects. That's why epidemiological studies are interesting, laboratory methods can depict a substance in any way the researchers want it to, but its effect from consumption by humans is more telling. The fact that cocoa is an important source of Oxalate and Aluminium, substances that we (and of which damage) accumulate over time matter more than the temporary beneficial effects you get from polyphenols. And cocoa does contain beta-sitosterol which I verified after. But still, we have this one study that showed increased prostate cancer risks with high cocoa/chocolate intake (important increases nonetheless) but I can't affirm without doubt that I'm right or that you're wrong and I'd like to see at least another study corroborating it. Fun fact, I remember noticing the few chocolate makers I visited when I was younger (in tourisitic town tours) to be bald and having signs of estrogen-related blushing. They kind of looked like this :
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/0_Frameries_-_Chocolatier_-_Pâtisserie_Godefroid_(2).JPG/260px-0_Frameries_-_Chocolatier_-_Pâtisserie_Godefroid_(2).JPG
http://lvdneng.rosselcdn.net/sites/default/files/dpistyles_v2/ena_16_9_extra_big/2017/04/10/node_146480/27276705/public/2017/04/10/B9711683009Z.1_20170410185859_000+G5H8S3343.5-0.jpg?itok=dJY56J-3
(I don't mean this as an argument, just a lighthearted note lol)

About your point on pde5 inhibitors, have their usage been popular enough to have relevant data on their effects on prostate cancer risks? Some of them also inhibit estrogen so it offers some protection from this end. I don't think this one example can brush off the Nitric Oxide theory of aging and cancer.
Arginine Depletion May Be A Viable Approach For Cancer
The Nitric Oxide (NO) Theory Of Aging
+all the stuff Peat has written on NO.

 

[Aleeri]

@Aleeri
Fun fact, I remember noticing the few chocolate makers I visited when I was younger (in tourisitic town tours) to be bald and having signs of estrogen-related blushing. They kind of looked like this :
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/0_Frameries_-_Chocolatier_-_Pâtisserie_Godefroid_(2).JPG/260px-0_Frameries_-_Chocolatier_-_Pâtisserie_Godefroid_(2).JPG
http://lvdneng.rosselcdn.net/sites/default/files/dpistyles_v2/ena_16_9_extra_big/2017/04/10/node_146480/27276705/public/2017/04/10/B9711683009Z.1_20170410185859_000+G5H8S3343.5-0.jpg?itok=dJY56J-3
(I don't mean this as an argument, just a lighthearted note lol)

About your point on pde5 inhibitors, have their usage been popular enough to have relevant data on their effects on prostate cancer risks? Some of them also inhibit estrogen so it offers some protection from this end. I don't think this one example can brush off the Nitric Oxide theory of aging and cancer.
Arginine Depletion May Be A Viable Approach For Cancer
The Nitric Oxide (NO) Theory Of Aging
+all the stuff Peat has written on NO.

Thanks Elephanto, it's great to hear your view.

Fun fact too is that I am balding (all my relatives too) and have slight issues with facial redness. When I was a kid I had severe style blushing from stress. It improved the older I got and the more health conscious I became. I think the slight redness I still have is because the blood vessels expanded a lot in my face during those years of issues. I also have low COMT function and struggled with high estrogen in the past, but my estradiol/estrone levels are under control now and normal.

Looking at the studies on Kuna Indians and their very high cacao consumption, it looks like about one of the best things you could consume for your cardiovascular health. Also studies like these seems to imply that cacao does not really increase the NO released from stress, so what does that mean? Acute cocoa Flavanols intake has minimal effects on exercise-induced oxidative stress and nitric oxide production in healthy cyclists: a randomized controlled trial

I find the whole area around nitric oxide very confusing.

Citrus fruits are widely recommended here too (all hail the king of orange juice Ray Peat) and they are among the best sources of Vitamin C, which also increases nitric oxide. Vitamin C also increases absorption of iron. It's recommended to consume protein with some sugar to decrease blood sugar lowering effects of protein, meat + orange juice = more iron. ***t gets confusing here you know once you start getting into the specifics.

If CO2 indeed is a better way to dilate blood vessels then why is there no erectile dysfunction drug that increases CO2 rather than NO? I can take thyroid, caffeine and other metabolic boosting substances and of course, they make me produce energy better but they seem to do nothing for erections.

NO is said to be a substance released during stress, does this mean sex is stressful? I find it pretty awesome haha. Should erections be avoided? Lol...

Meth. Blue is quoted as a great antioxidant and tool for decreasing NO but it also causes hypertension in many people, something that we know contributes to stress and cardiovascular disease. It seems to me that you want normal NO, not too little and not too much.

Yeah that's the thing with PDE5 inhibitors, they seem to have some pretty interesting effects too. Like:
Testosterone:estradiol ratio changes associated with long-term tadalafil administration: a pilot study. - PubMed - NCBI
Tadalafil improves lean mass and endothelial function in nonobese men with mild ED/LUTS: in vivo and in vitro characterization. - PubMed - NCBI
The phosphodiesterases type 5 inhibitor tadalafil reduces the activation of the hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal axis in men during cycle ergometric ... - PubMed - NCBI

Ray Peat writes about estrogen increasing nitric oxide levels, but how does Cialis increase nitric oxide while also decreasing estrogen?

Why does caffeine make me flush/blush easier? The reasoning with decreasing NO should make it do the opposite?

 

[Elephanto]

@Aleeri
C0ffee has niacin which can induce an Histamine flush. Maybe that reveals high basal levels of Histamine.

Estrogen increases NO but many other things also increase it, so Cialis simply doesn't increase NO through raising estrogen and it raises it enough that its estrogen-reducing property cannot compensate.

Not sure about the exercise study, maybe it inhibits arginase to a point where cocoa flavanols can't inhibit it further.

Narangenin in oranges inhibit nitric oxide.

Orange juice contains the antiinflammatory chemicals naringin and naringenin, which protect against endotoxin by suppressing the formation of nitric oxide and prostaglandins (Shiratori, et al., 2005).”

I don't think that Peat would recommend a source of vitamin C with meat. He recommends calcium to reduce its absorption, while coffee only inhibits non-heme Iron absorption as far as I know. If you know that something is going to increase Iron absorption, and you know the negative effects of Iron excess, then you shouldn't take both together. Maybe eat white rice with your liver/red meat instead, or a source of sugar that is Vitamin C-free. The rare times that I take something that raises NO I will also combine it with something that inhibits it. It hasn't always worked in terms of perceived shedding/hair quality.

I guess Nitric Oxide being more efficient in inducing erections is because it has more powerful effects and it also increases angiogenesis (which excess is implicated in cancer). Stress reduction and dopamine are the safe ways of inducing erections. In periods of stress, libido drops significantly. I had a friend who needed to take viagra when he was too drunk, yet alcohol increases Nitric Oxide, but it is also known that the state of drunkness is caused by adrenaline (stress). Testosterone is very efficient at lowering cortisol, and usually it is older men with low testosterone who need NO-enhancing substances to induce an erection (though it is obviously becoming more prevalent in younger men). Plus the penile calcification that has settled in with systemic damage over time from low CO2, TGF Beta, stress, estrogen, liver damage etc will increase the requirement for such boost. High estrogen will also raise cortisol and inhibit androgen receptors so another reason why libido and erections will fall. Caffeine doesn't help in my experience, it's at least mildly stressing even after a meal. I could take all the NO-inhibiting substances in the world at the same time and if I'm in a good mood, had sunlight, mind free of worry, good hormone levels etc I won't have a problem to have an erection, my libido will likely be high and even my flaccid penis is larger. In periods of stress, like back when I was recovering from propecia, worrying and breathing rapidly, something like taking a coffee made my penis shrink. Stress seems to be a major bloodflow cutter. Anything that took stress away for a while facilitated an erection and gave me libido in a period when it was inexistent and I couldn't get an erection. It's also crazy how small details can have an noticeable impact, like for instance wearing blue-blocking glasses when starring at screens and using incadescent lights at home makes a day/night difference for me. I don't know if it's because I've become more sensitive to stress or that my personality changed to constantly seek a low-stress state (I say this because I observe that some people seem to be oblivious to their stress levels and feel that their ways of thinking/reacting isn't symptomatic of stress) but I feel that they keep my dopamine levels high and cortisol low, especially when starring at LED tvs.

If Meth Blue causes hypertension in someone it would seem to point to defective health since NO is a crutch regarding blood circulation, I don't know I'd have to look this up more closely. I mean some people here are afraid of moving/exercising, probably doesn't help regarding proper blood circulation. But yeah minimal levels are required, it's just that in the case of mpb a lot of things point to levels being chronically high.

Btw sorry for hijacking this thread @Salmonamb , if you want, a mod can probably move our posts in a new thread.

 

[Hans]

Just an interesting titbit about lactic acid producing bacteria and exercise performance. The study basically says that lactobacillus plantarum (LP) produces lactic acid, which is then used by lactate utilizing bacteria to produce butyrate and then ATP. Plus, the LP decreases serum lactate, ammonia, creatine kinase, exercise fatigue and lowers inflammation and has an anti-catabolic effect. I'm not advising pro-biotic supplementation, but maybe cocoa consumption is a good way to increase the lactobacilli species to yield these benefits.

"Chen et al. [85] examined the effects of six weeks of supplementation with probiotics, Lactobacillus plantarum TWK10 (LP10), on exercise performance, physical fatigue, and gut microbial profile in mice. Their results show that LP10 supplementation increased muscle mass and grip strength in a dose-dependent way and enhanced energy harvesting and exercise performance [85]. It was possible that Lactobacillus spp. influenced exercise performance by producing lactic acid, which, in turn, could be used by lactate-utilizing bacteria to produce butyrate [86]. Along this pathway, there was formation of adenosine triphosphate (ATP). Thus, probiotic supplementation could play important roles in energy production during exercise [86]. Furthermore, Chen and coworkers [85] showed that LP10 supplementation had antifatigue effects by decreasing levels of serum lactate, ammonia, and creatine kinase (biochemical indicators of exercise-induced muscle fatigue) and enhanced exercise performance in mice. This might be related to the reduction of inflammation induced by LP10 which determined an improvement of skeletal muscle atrophy markers [85]. These findings support the view that gut microbiota had health-promotion, performance-improvement, and antifatigue effects on the host during exercise in terms of energy balance and body composition."
Exercise Modifies the Gut Microbiota with Positive Health Effects

 

[Kartoffel]

Moderately-high to high intakes literally increase odds of prostate cancer by 2-fold and aggressive prostate cancer by 1.90-fold in a 1000 subjects study.

Which study is that?

 

[lvysaur]

Calcium Oxalate causes kidney stones, I mean that's literally what kidney stones are. And yeah, cocoa powder is of the most important sources of dietary oxalate.

If the oxalate binds to the calcium in the meal, you wouldn't absorb them, right?

 

[Whichway?]

Well actually wouldnt it be better to have the chocolate with some source of calcium to bind some of the oxalates?

Maybe that’s why more people prefer milk chocolate? The extra milk and sugar may balance the acidity and bitterness of the oxolates.

I know we are told to embrace the high cocoa dark chocolates of 70-85% cocoa, but it gets to a point where I find it too bitter.