Cascara Sagrada Long-Term Safety

[shepherdgirl]

AFAIK, both the mechanism of action and the issues with AC are quite different. It absorbs organic substances including endotoxin, and therefore reduces the amount absorbed via the gut lining into the system. But it's more likely to slow than speed transit.

Thanks Tara. I agree, the mechanism is very different, and charcoal is not exactly a laxative although it kind of cleans like one. What concerned me was the initial post in which "other laxatives" are mentioned. Hopefully they are just referring to other anthraquinone laxatives... @DaveFoster ?

Could be a difference between well-aged or not?

Has anyone happened to read the Bartle or Bockus papers? (See first post in this thread) Did they do any experiments with aged cascara?

 

[DaveFoster]

Thanks Tara. I agree, the mechanism is very different, and charcoal is not exactly a laxative although it kind of cleans like one. What concerned me was the initial post in which "other laxatives" are mentioned. Hopefully they are just referring to other anthraquinone laxatives...

Charcoal does not act like a laxative, and it's not included in the herbs that cause melanosis coli. As mentioned, sennosides can cause melanosis coli, as can aloe vera and other plant glycosides.

Prolonged charcoal ingestion can cause melanosis ilei:

Melanosis ilei induced by prolonged charcoal ingestion

Both larger and smaller granules of activated charcoal can cause the condition, and it reverses itself somewhat when the charcoal has been discontinued.

Melanosis coli--a harmless pigmentation or a precancerous condition? - PubMed - NCBI

"There appears to be no association between colorectal cancer and melanosis coli or laxative use. Colorectal adenomas are more frequently found in patients with melanosis coli. Colorectal adenomas do not contain the melanin-like pigmentation. The association of adenomas with melanosis coli can be explained by the ease of detection of even tiny polyps as white spots within a dark-colored colonic mucosa."

 

[shepherdgirl]

Thank you for this information @DaveFoster . Very helpful. Do you happen to understand how AC can affect the ileum although it is adsorbent, especially in the case of granulated charcoal where it remains in larger pieces?
Have you heard of any problems with fibers (carrot, etc)?

 

[Travis]

That looks like persorption of charcoal granules.

 

[DaveFoster]

Thank you for this information @DaveFoster . Very helpful. Do you happen to understand how AC can affect the ileum although it is adsorbent, especially in the case of granulated charcoal where it remains in larger pieces?
Have you heard of any problems with fibers (carrot, etc)?

No, carrot fibers should be the safest. In theory the larger granule size should have less of an effect, and I don't think the adsorbent properties of the charcoal play a role in its persorption through the intestinal wall as @Travis suggested (if that's what it is).

There's very little consensus concerning the harm of melanosis coli in the context of senna laxatives, as well as melanosis ilei in the context of charcoal (although its cause from ingested iron could potentially be harmful and lead to bacterial infections in theory.) With melanosis coli, there's the argument for "laxative dependence," but that may be erroneous and involving the gradual slowing of intestinal movement over one's age due to hypothyroidism.

It reminds me of an argument that the blackening of the lung from pure tobacco smoke has little to do with lung cancer, and it's more of a cosmetic defect from the smoke. All in all, it's probably safer to use the carrot fiber frequently (once to three times daily), cascara in amounts under 1 TBSP chronically (probably 1 TSP would be safe), and the activated charcoal infrequently (maybe Dr. Peat's recommendation of once every three days would be appropriate.)

You have to keep in mind that activated charcoal generally should be preferred to antibiotics for lowering the endotoxin burden on the liver, and in doing so, it has been shown (at least in pigs, added to their feed 10 days out of the month) to extend lifespan. So, even with melanosis ilei, there's a high likelihood that charcoal stands as a net gain for the body, so long as it isn't abused to precipitate its adsorbtion of nutrients from food, and of course the the larger granule size should be preferred.

 

[sladerunner69]

No, carrot fibers should be the safest. In theory the larger granule size should have less of an effect, and I don't think the adsorbent properties of the charcoal play a role in its persorption through the intestinal wall as @Travis suggested (if that's what it is).

There's very little consensus concerning the harm of melanosis coli in the context of senna laxatives, as well as melanosis ilei in the context of charcoal (although its cause from ingested iron could potentially be harmful and lead to bacterial infections in theory.) With melanosis coli, there's the argument for "laxative dependence," but that may be erroneous and involving the gradual slowing of intestinal movement over one's age due to hypothyroidism.

It reminds me of an argument that the blackening of the lung from pure tobacco smoke has little to do with lung cancer, and it's more of a cosmetic defect from the smoke. All in all, it's probably safer to use the carrot fiber frequently (once to three times daily), cascara in amounts under 1 TBSP chronically (probably 1 TSP would be safe), and the activated charcoal infrequently (maybe Dr. Peat's recommendation of once every three days would be appropriate.)

You have to keep in mind that activated charcoal generally should be preferred to antibiotics for lowering the endotoxin burden on the liver, and in doing so, it has been shown (at least in pigs, added to their feed 10 days out of the month) to extend lifespan. So, even with melanosis ilei, there's a high likelihood that charcoal stands as a net gain for the body, so long as it isn't abused to precipitate its adsorbtion of nutrients from food, and of course the the larger granule size should be preferred.

Do you think there is something to be said for the quality of the cascara powder? I haven't been able to find any that is "aged" at my local markets.

 

[DaveFoster]

Yes, unfortunately cleaning is the number one thing you probably need to do. Deep cleaning... Behind and under everything. Kitchens and bathrooms harbor the worst odors and need the most attention. For a bedroom, definitely launder all bedding, from the comforter and sheets to the mattress pad. I would then start sniffing.... Are there some pillows that are causing the smell? Your mattress? Window curtains? Carpet? The fabric of a chair or other furniture? Locate the odor and either clean it if you can or throw it out and replace with new!
Sprinkling baking soda is a good trick - I would put a cup or two in a mason jar, put in several drops of essential oil (i usually use lavender), shake it up and then pour onto mattress, couches, carpets... Anything with fabric that you can't just throw in the washing machine. Leave for about an hour then vacuum up.
Burning beeswax candles with cotton wicks is supposed to clean the air without creating toxins... May be worth a try.
And lastly, look for signs of mold and mildew. Look on walls, ceilings, window sills. This is the one time I'd bring out the bleach. May need to invest in a small dehumidifier and hygrometer to keep an eye on humidity levels.
Oh also, for small musty spaces, keeping an open jar sitting somewhere that has baking soda and essential oil in it can help. I did this in all the closets when I moved into an old house and it really helped.

Do you think there is something to be said for the quality of the cascara powder? I haven't been able to find any that is "aged" at my local markets.

It's toxic if not aged. You can find aged powder at Mountain Rose Herbs, but I personally prefer to use capsules with the aforementioned powder before swallowing, as I despise the bitter taste.

 

[sladerunner69]

It's toxic if not aged. You can find aged powder at Mountain Rose Herbs, but I personally prefer to use capsules with the aforementioned powder before swallowing, as I despise the bitter taste.

So the cascara pills they sell at most health food stores are toxic? just how toxic? Perhaps all products are standarly aged during production?

 

[DaveFoster]

So the cascara pills they sell at most health food stores are toxic? just how toxic? Perhaps all products are standarly aged during production?

You need to contact the manufacturer directly unless they explicitly state "aged."

I'm unsure about industry standards.

 

[lollipop]

So the cascara pills they sell at most health food stores are toxic? just how toxic? Perhaps all products are standarly aged during production?

WoW good to know. This is why I waited to purchase and then saw @LifeGivingStore brought in the good one Ray recommended. Maybe this is why you had that toxic reaction @sladerunner69?

 

[tara]

So the cascara pills they sell at most health food stores are toxic?

I got Nature's Way capsules, which says on the package that it is aged bark, because they were easy to come by.
I think they changed the formula to include an unwanted particulate excipient. But since I make tea out of it, it's easy enough to leave the solids in the bottom of the cup, so that mitigates that issue.
Doesn't taste bitter or bad to me, but I guess it might if I made it very strong.
I can't say whether it's as good as the Farma Labor stuff. I'll consider getting that when I next need some. (I don't use it daily, only when things occasionally slow down.)

 

[sladerunner69]

I got Nature's Way capsules, which says on the package that it is aged bark, because they were easy to come by.
I think they changed the formula to include an unwanted particulate excipient. But since I make tea out of it, it's easy enough to leave the solids in the bottom of the cup, so that mitigates that issue.
Doesn't taste bitter or bad to me, but I guess it might if I made it very strong.
I can't say whether it's as good as the Farma Labor stuff. I'll consider getting that when I next need some. (I don't use it daily, only when things occasionally slow down.)

That's what I have been using! Nature's way. It does seem I can tolerate it a bit better now... at least marginally. I still get a sore bum and abdominal discomfort that I am quite certain is from the cascara. It is good to know it is aged... I didn't catch that.

 

[Braveheart]

Have used Nature's Way capsules too....for a long time...1 cap at a time

 

[Tzheng2012]

Fyi, ALL cascara for human use is aged. It wont be sold as a herbal supplement if it wasnt.

 

[Amazoniac]

Fyi, ALL cascara for human use is aged. It wont be sold as a herbal supplement if it wasnt.

So you record your crew hanging on a crane and doing one-arm push-ups with a GoPro and admiration claiming that it's due to a sharp metabolism that they are fearless, but then I comment that a meaningless life also leads one to seek danger to feel alive, and then you ignore me with disdain but when I leave you start thinking about it and decide to retribute the thoughtful comment by answering if most companies let their bark age for long enough.

https://www.researchgate.net/public..._tablets_of_cascara_sagrada_Rhamnus_purshiana

 

[Tzheng2012]

So you record your crew hanging on a crane and doing one-arm push-ups with a GoPro and admiration claiming that it's due to a sharp metabolism that they are fearless, but then I comment that a meaningless life also leads one to seek danger to feel alive, and then you ignore me with disdain but when I leave you start thinking about it and decide to retribute the thoughtful comment by answering if most companies let their bark age for long enough.

https://www.researchgate.net/public..._tablets_of_cascara_sagrada_Rhamnus_purshiana

Life would be more meaningful if we could simply mire peoples gains without needing to fabricate deeper meanings. A simple slap on the **** can speak a thousand silent words.

But about cascara, that study you linked was testing various cascara tablets for fungus and mold. And 2 out of 9 had aflatoxins. The purpose of aging the bark isnt to reduce mold, in fact if not done properly it can foster mold growth.

“ The bark from the tree is harvested then must be aged due to the fact it is much too strong when it is freshly harvested for use. Cascara sagrada needs to be aged for at least a year before it is used. Once it has been aged for a year it can be used as a mild laxative... Consuming fresh cascara sagrada bark can cause vomiting and bloody diarrhea.“

Cascara sagrada bark benefits and side effects | iHealth Directory

 

[Amazoniac]

A simple slap on the **** can speak a thousand silent words.

What words?

But about cascara, that study you linked was testing various cascara tablets for fungus and mold.

I posted just to point out that proper aging is not the only concern..

 

[Tzheng2012]

What words?

Ones from the heart.

I posted just to point out that proper aging is not the only concern..

Oh, right. I think most would be safe as long as you choose trustworthy brands. Earlier people were really losing it thinking they were taking some poison because they didnt know if their cascara was aged or not. I question whether the farmalabor stuff really is worth the exuberant price though. I think its just the hype revolving around RP’s recommendation.

Ive been using cascara myself for a long time, but i usually use it in a formulation because it reduces some of the cramping people experience. I use the dr christopher lower bowel balance. The formula is pretty famous to people into herbal remedies. It was the foundation of his healing programs. He believed most sicknesses originate from constipation and that to get better you need to have properly working bowels. Im pretty sure thats inline with RP’s ideas too.

 

[Greg says]

Have used Nature's Way capsules too....for a long time...1 cap at a time

i have used Nature's Way for a few years. At least 2 doses a week to manage endotoxin. I have found 2 caps to be the best dosage. 1 cap has a much stronger effect, it causes much stronger cramps. 3-4 caps doesn't seem to be anymore effective than 2 caps.

 

[sladerunner69]

i have used Nature's Way for a few years. At least 2 doses a week to manage endotoxin. I have found 2 caps to be the best dosage. 1 cap has a much stronger effect, it causes much stronger cramps. 3-4 caps doesn't seem to be anymore effective than 2 caps.

1 cap is stronger than two you say?